Official 2019 Rank Order Lists

[ridethecliche]

We're getting terrifyingly close to this so let's get this going as and when people start finishing interviews for the season.

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[DrGoon]

I'll show you mine if you show me yours

 

[blueforest]

Ok, I'll start without listing any program names yet since it's slightly early for that and maybe someone has a fairly similar dilemma on how to rank programs with these pros/cons.

Program A: My possible #1, although my SO is not too happy about it due to location/area. I'll start with the CONS!
Cons: -cold, long winters, heavy snow
-high crime and poverty according to some statistics although nothing crazy (I think), diverse socioeconomic neighborhoods are nothing new to me as I've lived in such an area my entire life
-cheaper homes but high property taxes
-My SO wouldn't want to be here if offered the choice due to bad reviews online about the city regarding crime and people
-overnight call/night float

Pros: +midtier university program
+strong psychotherapy
+fellowship opportunities
+cool residents, I got along with all of them and they all seem like great, down to earth people
+ 3 hours away from family in a neighboring state
+low COL, seems like we can actually afford to buy something as it makes more sense than to rent in our case

Program B: Possible #1 or #2 HELP! SO prefers this to be #1 lol
Cons: -expensive homes!!! will not be able to buy a home in this area until I become an attending, rent seems like the only option unless we decide to live in the nearby city which has high crime rate
-ranked lower on Doximity (lol who cares?) than many other programs I interviewed at which is a surprise? not sure why?
-benefits are alright, no food or anything like that, but higher salary than program A
-in-house overnight shifts

Pros: same as program A (uni program, fellowship, research opportunities, strong faculty),
+ closer to home only 2 hours away
+ beautiful desirable upper-middle-class suburb with amazing schools and family life (I don't have kids and don't plan on having them anytime soon so should I even care about this?)
+almost nonexistent poverty/crime

Program C: +/- middle of nowhere
Cons: -all the cons of a new program.... you all know how that is.
-potential workhorse program? maybe not
-HOURS and HOURS and HOURS away from home, difficult to travel to (middle of nowhere!)
-university affiliated

Pros: +My SO loved it here, the city, the people, the area, you name it, SO was sold
+amazing COL, we can live way above the means here as residents
+just a few hours drive to many neighboring cities (weekend trips etc.)
+AMAZING benefits, like I mean... the best of the best, makes me want to rank this place #1 just because of what they offer as it would save us so much money.
+no overnights for the entire 4 years

This is really, really hard as I have a spouse to consider. There are days where I want to take the risk and just rank program C first as I think we would be happy there, but I think I have the potential of becoming a great psychiatrist if I can match at Program A. I'm still not entirely sure if I want to pursue C+A fellowship, and some of my attendings are telling me to keep my options open. Family life and work life balance are important to me, but I don't need to really be that close to my parents. I've lived away from home for 6+ years. Does anyone have a similar pros/cons list? What would you do? I appreciate the help!

 

[Monocles]

Ok, I'll start without listing any program names yet since it's slightly early for that and maybe someone has a fairly similar dilemma on how to rank programs with these pros/cons.

Program A: My possible #1, although my SO is not too happy about it due to location/area. I'll start with the CONS!
Cons: -cold, long winters, heavy snow
-high crime and poverty according to some statistics although nothing crazy (I think), diverse socioeconomic neighborhoods are nothing new to me as I've lived in such an area my entire life
-cheaper homes but high property taxes
-My SO wouldn't want to be here if offered the choice due to bad reviews online about the city regarding crime and people
-overnight call/night float

Pros: +midtier university program
+strong psychotherapy
+fellowship opportunities
+cool residents, I got along with all of them and they all seem like great, down to earth people
+ 3 hours away from family in a neighboring state
+low COL, seems like we can actually afford to buy something as it makes more sense than to rent in our case

Program B: Possible #1 or #2 HELP! SO prefers this to be #1 lol
Cons: -expensive homes!!! will not be able to buy a home in this area until I become an attending, rent seems like the only option unless we decide to live in the nearby city which has high crime rate
-ranked lower on Doximity (lol who cares?) than many other programs I interviewed at which is a surprise? not sure why?
-benefits are alright, no food or anything like that, but higher salary than program A
-in-house overnight shifts

Pros: same as program A (uni program, fellowship, research opportunities, strong faculty),
+ closer to home only 2 hours away
+ beautiful desirable upper-middle-class suburb with amazing schools and family life (I don't have kids and don't plan on having them anytime soon so should I even care about this?)
+almost nonexistent poverty/crime

Dude this is huge. I would absolutely rank B over A a million times over just based on those things. Statistically most people practice where they train, so if you end up going to program A you'll likely work in area A for years to come. When you are burned out and working 60-80 hours a week do you really want to have to worry about personal safety as well?

Perhaps this is biased but safe suburbias are great to practice in.

 

[Evidence Based]

Ok, I'll start without listing any program names yet since it's slightly early for that and maybe someone has a fairly similar dilemma on how to rank programs with these pros/cons.

Program A: My possible #1, although my SO is not too happy about it due to location/area. I'll start with the CONS!
Cons: -cold, long winters, heavy snow
-high crime and poverty according to some statistics although nothing crazy (I think), diverse socioeconomic neighborhoods are nothing new to me as I've lived in such an area my entire life
-cheaper homes but high property taxes
-My SO wouldn't want to be here if offered the choice due to bad reviews online about the city regarding crime and people
-overnight call/night float

Pros: +midtier university program
+strong psychotherapy
+fellowship opportunities
+cool residents, I got along with all of them and they all seem like great, down to earth people
+ 3 hours away from family in a neighboring state
+low COL, seems like we can actually afford to buy something as it makes more sense than to rent in our case

Program B: Possible #1 or #2 HELP! SO prefers this to be #1 lol
Cons: -expensive homes!!! will not be able to buy a home in this area until I become an attending, rent seems like the only option unless we decide to live in the nearby city which has high crime rate
-ranked lower on Doximity (lol who cares?) than many other programs I interviewed at which is a surprise? not sure why?
-benefits are alright, no food or anything like that, but higher salary than program A
-in-house overnight shifts

Pros: same as program A (uni program, fellowship, research opportunities, strong faculty),
+ closer to home only 2 hours away
+ beautiful desirable upper-middle-class suburb with amazing schools and family life (I don't have kids and don't plan on having them anytime soon so should I even care about this?)
+almost nonexistent poverty/crime

Program C: +/- middle of nowhere
Cons: -all the cons of a new program.... you all know how that is.
-potential workhorse program? maybe not
-HOURS and HOURS and HOURS away from home, difficult to travel to (middle of nowhere!)
-university affiliated

Pros: +My SO loved it here, the city, the people, the area, you name it, SO was sold
+amazing COL, we can live way above the means here as residents
+just a few hours drive to many neighboring cities (weekend trips etc.)
+AMAZING benefits, like I mean... the best of the best, makes me want to rank this place #1 just because of what they offer as it would save us so much money.
+no overnights for the entire 4 years

This is really, really hard as I have a spouse to consider. There are days where I want to take the risk and just rank program C first as I think we would be happy there, but I think I have the potential of becoming a great psychiatrist if I can match at Program A. I'm still not entirely sure if I want to pursue C+A fellowship, and some of my attendings are telling me to keep my options open. Family life and work life balance are important to me, but I don't need to really be that close to my parents. I've lived away from home for 6+ years. Does anyone have a similar pros/cons list? What would you do? I appreciate the help!

I can't think of a worse way to start residency than having your SO furious/resentful of you. It sounds like the only "better" thing about A is that you can buy a house? Otherwise it sounds like B is much better for you and your relationship. Better to rent an apartment (which is what most of us do in residency) and have two people in rather than a house you're soon living in alone

 

[PlasticBag]

Ok, I'll start without listing any program names yet since it's slightly early for that and maybe someone has a fairly similar dilemma on how to rank programs with these pros/cons.

Program A: My possible #1, although my SO is not too happy about it due to location/area. I'll start with the CONS!
Cons: -cold, long winters, heavy snow
-high crime and poverty according to some statistics although nothing crazy (I think), diverse socioeconomic neighborhoods are nothing new to me as I've lived in such an area my entire life
-cheaper homes but high property taxes
-My SO wouldn't want to be here if offered the choice due to bad reviews online about the city regarding crime and people
-overnight call/night float

Pros: +midtier university program
+strong psychotherapy
+fellowship opportunities
+cool residents, I got along with all of them and they all seem like great, down to earth people
+ 3 hours away from family in a neighboring state
+low COL, seems like we can actually afford to buy something as it makes more sense than to rent in our case

Program B: Possible #1 or #2 HELP! SO prefers this to be #1 lol
Cons: -expensive homes!!! will not be able to buy a home in this area until I become an attending, rent seems like the only option unless we decide to live in the nearby city which has high crime rate
-ranked lower on Doximity (lol who cares?) than many other programs I interviewed at which is a surprise? not sure why?
-benefits are alright, no food or anything like that, but higher salary than program A
-in-house overnight shifts

Pros: same as program A (uni program, fellowship, research opportunities, strong faculty),
+ closer to home only 2 hours away
+ beautiful desirable upper-middle-class suburb with amazing schools and family life (I don't have kids and don't plan on having them anytime soon so should I even care about this?)
+almost nonexistent poverty/crime

Program C: +/- middle of nowhere
Cons: -all the cons of a new program.... you all know how that is.
-potential workhorse program? maybe not
-HOURS and HOURS and HOURS away from home, difficult to travel to (middle of nowhere!)
-university affiliated

Pros: +My SO loved it here, the city, the people, the area, you name it, SO was sold
+amazing COL, we can live way above the means here as residents
+just a few hours drive to many neighboring cities (weekend trips etc.)
+AMAZING benefits, like I mean... the best of the best, makes me want to rank this place #1 just because of what they offer as it would save us so much money.
+no overnights for the entire 4 years

This is really, really hard as I have a spouse to consider. There are days where I want to take the risk and just rank program C first as I think we would be happy there, but I think I have the potential of becoming a great psychiatrist if I can match at Program A. I'm still not entirely sure if I want to pursue C+A fellowship, and some of my attendings are telling me to keep my options open. Family life and work life balance are important to me, but I don't need to really be that close to my parents. I've lived away from home for 6+ years. Does anyone have a similar pros/cons list? What would you do? I appreciate the help!

I also have a spouse to consider and for us the real estate market is also important. In the end, I think finding a middle ground is crucial. I’m definitely not going to rank high any programs where my spouse doesn’t have any opportunities or simply doesn’t like. Residency is time-consuming and you’ll be likely working on weekends; you don’t want your spouse to be stuck alone in a place she/he hates. At the same time, I also reserved the right to not rank high a few programs I really hated in locations that are good for us. It’s all about compromise. I would say program B fits your needs the best. It’s interesting that you only mentioned A and C in your recap, I’m guessing you’re maybe attracted to the two opposites and program B seems less exciting in comparison? Program C is a bit risky if it’s truly in the middle of nowhere. Did your spouse spend more than a couple of days there?

 

[VeryOldSpice]

I'll get in on this. Really not sure what to prioritize in a program but I think my general list is: Academics > Location > Work Load (prefer lighter) > Positive Environment > Patient Diversity > Facilities

Option 1:
Medium to strong academics (second best in state)
Okay location
Light work load (for an academic program, 40-50hr weeks)
Positive environment
Strong diversity
Old, horribly ugly facilities
Lucrative moonlighting

I did a sub-i here, fit in here really well, bonded with everyone from the attendings to the PD to the residents. Would be an easy #1 pick if the work load was a little higher and the program was a little more renown. Very lucrative moonlighting combined with the low work load becomes a potent combination.

Option 2:
Strong academics (best in state)
Okay location
Medium-high work load
Positive environment but slightly more uptight/straight edge
Not very diverse, more rural but gets shipped a lot of acute patients from surrounding areas
Beautiful facilities
Very low moonlighting pay

I did a sub-i here as well. This program is a little more straight-edge than myself but I still fit in great. Good balance of work load, learning, and free time combined with a solid name and beautiful facilities. Would be an easy #1 pick if there were more diversity in the patient population (it's majority caucasian), higher moonlighting pay, and a slightly better personality fit.

Option 3:
Strong academics (with a prestigious name)
Amazing location
High work load (residents seemed tired and stressed, apparently 60+ hr weeks on service, also has weekday overnight calls, basically 24 hr shifts with a 3hr break in between which I am not a fan of)
Neutral environment (some say it was malignant in the past, but I didn't get that vibe)
Strong diversity (most of all the places I've interviewed)
Decent facilities
Very low moonlighting pay

This is the most straight-edge, hierarchal program of the bunch. Not a lot of positives on this list, but it has 2 huge plusses in that it has the strongest academics of the bunch and it's in my favorite city. Did not get a good read on this program during interview. Some residents seemed overworked and tired, some felt happy with their decision. I usually go back and forth switching this option with option #2 since they're fairly similar. Option #3 residents may work slightly harder than option #2 but have a much better name, more diversity, and in a better city to boot. I do know option #2 much more intimately having done a sub-I there.



HELP! Not sure if prestige matters at the end of the day. I think I want to stay in academic medicine after residency but don't know if I will take the pay cut to do so. Not sure if light work load of option #1 is a bad thing, simultaneously not sure if I want to handle a heavy work load like at option #3. Not sure how likely I am to moonlight, so don't even know if the moonlight pay will matter to me. Not sure about anything. lol

 

[DrGoon]

I'll get in on this. Really not sure what to prioritize in a program but I think my general list is: Academics > Location > Work Load (prefer lighter) > Positive Environment > Patient Diversity > Facilities

Option 1:
Medium to strong academics (second best in state)
Okay location
Light work load (for an academic program, 40-50hr weeks)
Positive environment
Strong diversity
Old, horribly ugly facilities
Lucrative moonlighting

I did a sub-i here, fit in here really well, bonded with everyone from the attendings to the PD to the residents. Would be an easy #1 pick if the work load was a little higher and the program was a little more renown. Very lucrative moonlighting combined with the low work load becomes a potent combination.

Option 2:
Strong academics (best in state)
Okay location
Medium-high work load
Positive environment but slightly more uptight/straight edge
Not very diverse, more rural but gets shipped a lot of acute patients from surrounding areas
Beautiful facilities
Very low moonlighting pay

I did a sub-i here as well. This program is a little more straight-edge than myself but I still fit in great. Good balance of work load, learning, and free time combined with a solid name and beautiful facilities. Would be an easy #1 pick if there were more diversity in the patient population (it's majority caucasian), higher moonlighting pay, and a slightly better personality fit.

Option 3:
Strong academics (with a prestigious name)
Amazing location
High work load (residents seemed tired and stressed, apparently 60+ hr weeks on service, also has weekday overnight calls, basically 24 hr shifts with a 3hr break in between which I am not a fan of)
Neutral environment (some say it was malignant in the past, but I didn't get that vibe)
Strong diversity (most of all the places I've interviewed)
Decent facilities
Very low moonlighting pay

This is the most straight-edge, hierarchal program of the bunch. Not a lot of positives on this list, but it has 2 huge plusses in that it has the strongest academics of the bunch and it's in my favorite city. Did not get a good read on this program during interview. Some residents seemed overworked and tired, some felt happy with their decision. I usually go back and forth switching this option with option #2 since they're fairly similar. Option #3 residents may work slightly harder than option #2 but have a much better name, more diversity, and in a better city to boot. I do know option #2 much more intimately having done a sub-I there.



HELP! Not sure if prestige matters at the end of the day. I think I want to stay in academic medicine after residency but don't know if I will take the pay cut to do so. Not sure if light work load of option #1 is a bad thing, simultaneously not sure if I want to handle a heavy work load like at option #3. Not sure how likely I am to moonlight, so don't even know if the moonlight pay will matter to me. Not sure about anything. lol

I'd probably pick option 3 since it's your favorite city

 

[reca]

Did something change with the whole residency application process this year? I've never seen applicants so paranoid about not naming programs. Hardly any residency reviews left so far on the review thread. And refusing to mention program names when asking about how to rank them!! Feel like I'm missing something that went down that's making applicants scared....

 

[VeryOldSpice]

Did something change with the whole residency application process this year? I've never seen applicants so paranoid about not naming programs. Hardly any residency reviews left so far on the review thread. And refusing to mention program names when asking about how to rank them!! Feel like I'm missing something that went down that's making applicants scared....

Can't speak for other applicants, but I personally chose not to name any programs bc I feel I would easily be recognized due to the unique combination of locations I applied to. I have no interest in shooting myself in the foot.

 

[DrGoon]

I guess I’ll be the first to drop some program names. As a background I’m interested in addiction and neuromodulation and would like to go to an academic program that has robust training in each field. Location is not so important to me; however, I would prefer to live in or near a city, but quality of program trumps this.

Top four in no particular order are Baylor, Harvard south shore, Dartmouth and Mayo.

Next three are UT Austin, University of Florida, and LSU NOLA. Again no particular order

Any insight as to how you would rank given these choices. Bottom of my list is already set and don’t need much advice with those.

 

[Evidence Based]

Can't speak for other applicants, but I personally chose not to name any programs bc I feel I would easily be recognized due to the unique combination of locations I applied to. I have no interest in shooting myself in the foot.

I respect people wanting to protect their anonymity, but once you start residency you realize that your program director is so freaking busy you're amazed how they do their jobs and stay sane while keeping all us miscreant residents happy. I promise no PD is going to peek onto this thread and spend an hour cross referencing your all the places you applied (which they can't see anyway) with the 100+ people they interviewed and the 1000+ people whose applications they read.

I don't blame people for being a little cautious (I was applying last year!), but starting residency has really opened my eyes to what a crazy hard job PDs have and how little time they have to be analyzing posts on SDN when they could be seeing their families or sleeping.

If you would much rather know for absolute certain that no one could find you even if they tried, I guess that's fair, just realize it's so much easier to get feedback about your list if you actually give people the program names and cities.

 

[Evidence Based]

I guess I’ll be the first to drop some program names. As a background I’m interested in addiction and neuromodulation and would like to go to an academic program that has robust training in each field. Location is not so important to me; however, I would prefer to live in or near a city, but quality of program trumps this.

Top four in no particular order are Baylor, Harvard south shore, Dartmouth and Mayo.

Any insight as to how you would rank given these choices. Bottom of my list is already set and don’t need much advice with those.

Most familiar with Dartmouth- really strong department with a ton of resources and some impressive faculty, and a lot of good addiction work (really strong community mental health and addiction system in a rural high need area with lots of opioid use disorder). From my interview there I think they do some neuromodulation work as well. My impression was a program that gave really excellent training, but that dropped farther down my list because of location.

HSS I know a little about through hearsay but didn't interview there. Certainly less "strong" and well rounded of an overall program than Dartmouth or Baylor, but you would definitely get good addiction training at the VA. John Renner at the Boston VA is one of the giants of addiction psychiatry and helps train the BU and HSS residents I believe.

 

[uhmocksuhsillen]

I guess I’ll be the first to drop some program names. As a background I’m interested in addiction and neuromodulation and would like to go to an academic program that has robust training in each field. Location is not so important to me; however, I would prefer to live in or near a city, but quality of program trumps this.

Top four in no particular order are Baylor, Harvard south shore, Dartmouth and Mayo.

Next three are UT Austin, University of Florida, and LSU NOLA. Again no particular order

Any insight as to how you would rank given these choices. Bottom of my list is already set and don’t need much advice with those.

I interviewed at three of yours but have been doing extensive research on a few others in case I got an interview.

Based on quality, followed by location, I'd rank it dartmouth, Baylor, hss, mayo, UF, UT Austin, LSU.

 

[ridethecliche]

I'm actually kinda surprised that the 'other' Harvard programs have a good reputation... I didn't even bother applying to them lol.

I have my last scheduled interview next week. Hoping for 1-2 more ie crossing my fingers for a couple of reaches, but I think it's going to be decision time after that interview.

I think I theoretically have four top choices right now.... I'm really not looking forward to having to make the decision.

 

[LABrondo]

Where and when do we go to rank programs?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[uhmocksuhsillen]

How do you actually know if a program gets you good experience? I interviewed at a small community program located in a bad part of a major metropolitan city. They stated they are the safety net hospital for surrounding patient population. I'm guessing this means they see a wide variety of pathology..... would it be wrong to assume they see just as much as one of the big University programs I've interviewed with?

 

[Amygdarya]

How do you actually know if a program gets you good experience? I interviewed at a small community program located in a bad part of a major metropolitan city. They stated they are the safety net hospital for surrounding patient population. I'm guessing this means they see a wide variety of pathology..... would it be wrong to assume they see just as much as one of the big University programs I've interviewed with?

I think when you want a real variety of pathology, you should look for programs that provide experience in a number of different settings, eg. university hospital and clinics, public hospital and clinics, +/- VA, +/- private free standing psych hospitals +/- state psych hospitals +/- children's hospitals etc. Most programs don't have this kind of variety (of the ones I interviewed last year, UW, NYU and Brown were the most impressive in this respect), but these are the things to consider.

On the other hand, ever since my medical school application I've never understood why people equated lower SES with "diversity". Having experience with only one side of SES spectrum is, while undeniable still valuable, is not *diverse* by definition. I've heard from some recent graduates from severe pathology-focused primarily public hospital-based residencies that they had difficulty working with higher functioning patients in their private practices, and vice versa. In other words, heavy exposure to severe pathology does not necessarily mean diversity of experience.

 

[DrGoon]

I think when you want a real variety of pathology, you should look for programs that provide experience in a number of different settings, eg. university hospital and clinics, public hospital and clinics, +/- VA, +/- private free standing psych hospitals +/- state psych hospitals +/- children's hospitals etc. Most programs don't have this kind of variety (of the ones I interviewed last year, UW, NYU and Brown were the most impressive in this respect), but these are the things to consider.

On the other hand, ever since my medical school application I've never understood why people equated lower SES with "diversity". Having experience with only one side of SES spectrum is, while undeniable still valuable, is not *diverse* by definition. I've heard from some recent graduates from severe pathology-focused primarily public hospital-based residencies that they had difficulty working with higher functioning patients in their private practices, and vice versa. In other words, heavy exposure to severe pathology does not necessarily mean diversity of experience.

I alluded to this during one my tours with a resident on interview day, and they looked at me like I was Satan.

 

[Old&InTheWay]

I alluded to this during one my tours with a resident on interview day, and they looked at me like I was Satan.

Just because something may be true doesn't mean you should say it.

 

[DrGoon]

Just because something may be true doesn't mean you should say it.

True but they were trying to sell the fact that the vast majority of their patients are indigent as having great patient diversity. It was too late in interview season for me to even care anymore

 

[SmallBird]

I guess I’ll be the first to drop some program names. As a background I’m interested in addiction and neuromodulation and would like to go to an academic program that has robust training in each field. Location is not so important to me; however, I would prefer to live in or near a city, but quality of program trumps this.

Top four in no particular order are Baylor, Harvard south shore, Dartmouth and Mayo.

Next three are UT Austin, University of Florida, and LSU NOLA. Again no particular order

Any insight as to how you would rank given these choices. Bottom of my list is already set and don’t need much advice with those.

If you enjoying skiing, hiking, nature, cool coffee shops, and don’t need large city amenities, Dartmouth would be great, but it’s also a location that really wouldn’t work for everyone!

 

[Monocles]

I'll get in on this. Really not sure what to prioritize in a program but I think my general list is: Academics > Location > Work Load (prefer lighter) > Positive Environment > Patient Diversity > Facilities

Option 1:
Medium to strong academics (second best in state)
Okay location
Light work load (for an academic program, 40-50hr weeks)
Positive environment
Strong diversity
Old, horribly ugly facilities
Lucrative moonlighting

I did a sub-i here, fit in here really well, bonded with everyone from the attendings to the PD to the residents. Would be an easy #1 pick if the work load was a little higher and the program was a little more renown. Very lucrative moonlighting combined with the low work load becomes a potent combination.

Option 2:
Strong academics (best in state)
Okay location
Medium-high work load
Positive environment but slightly more uptight/straight edge
Not very diverse, more rural but gets shipped a lot of acute patients from surrounding areas
Beautiful facilities
Very low moonlighting pay

I did a sub-i here as well. This program is a little more straight-edge than myself but I still fit in great. Good balance of work load, learning, and free time combined with a solid name and beautiful facilities. Would be an easy #1 pick if there were more diversity in the patient population (it's majority caucasian), higher moonlighting pay, and a slightly better personality fit.

Option 3:
Strong academics (with a prestigious name)
Amazing location
High work load (residents seemed tired and stressed, apparently 60+ hr weeks on service, also has weekday overnight calls, basically 24 hr shifts with a 3hr break in between which I am not a fan of)
Neutral environment (some say it was malignant in the past, but I didn't get that vibe)
Strong diversity (most of all the places I've interviewed)
Decent facilities
Very low moonlighting pay

This is the most straight-edge, hierarchal program of the bunch. Not a lot of positives on this list, but it has 2 huge plusses in that it has the strongest academics of the bunch and it's in my favorite city. Did not get a good read on this program during interview. Some residents seemed overworked and tired, some felt happy with their decision. I usually go back and forth switching this option with option #2 since they're fairly similar. Option #3 residents may work slightly harder than option #2 but have a much better name, more diversity, and in a better city to boot. I do know option #2 much more intimately having done a sub-I there.



HELP! Not sure if prestige matters at the end of the day. I think I want to stay in academic medicine after residency but don't know if I will take the pay cut to do so. Not sure if light work load of option #1 is a bad thing, simultaneously not sure if I want to handle a heavy work load like at option #3. Not sure how likely I am to moonlight, so don't even know if the moonlight pay will matter to me. Not sure about anything. lol

This is probably my PGY-3 burnout/cynicism talking, but why not go to option #1? Ultimately at the end you'll get your certificate in psychiatry and can basically write your ticket almost anywhere in the country, so why not have a chill and happy 4 years of your life? If you get bored no one is stopping you from going out and exploring new hobbies or finding new things to learn, but whereas if you go to a malignant problem that works you 80+ hours like a slave, you don't have those options.

 

[DrGoon]

If you enjoying skiing, hiking, nature, cool coffee shops, and don’t need large city amenities, Dartmouth would be great, but it’s also a location that really wouldn’t work for everyone!

It would be pretty tight to have the option to head to a mountain for skiing on a free weekend. Never been to a resort in the Northeast. Many good mountains there?

 

[DrGoon]

Harvard south shore is VERY addictions heavy and they're always trying to do more neuroscience stuff. Also it's Boston

Yeah I got the vibe that HSS would be great for addictions. I was mainly just a little worried about the amount of VA work that the residency is made up of. Don’t get me wrong I love the veteran population but am hoping to get some exposure to patients with more diverse experiences. It was reassuring to hear that the program has many different affiliated hospitals that the residents rotate through. The Harvard affiliation and rotations through McLean make the program very enticing.

 

[Dharma]

It would be pretty tight to have the option to head to a mountain for skiing on a free weekend. Never been to a resort in the Northeast. Many good mountains there?

Plenty of goodness in VT, ME, and upstate NY. It's not the West but enough to feel the stoke.

 

[VeryOldSpice]

This is probably my PGY-3 burnout/cynicism talking, but why not go to option #1? Ultimately at the end you'll get your certificate in psychiatry and can basically write your ticket almost anywhere in the country, so why not have a chill and happy 4 years of your life? If you get bored no one is stopping you from going out and exploring new hobbies or finding new things to learn, but whereas if you go to a malignant problem that works you 80+ hours like a slave, you don't have those options.

Thanks for your input. Out of the senior residents that I've talked to, they always say to value lifestyle over prestige.

I'd be interested to get an attending's perspective on how much it matters if you graduate from a top tier academic program vs a mid tier academic program. I have no idea what my post-grad plans are but I like to keep my options open and set myself up for the best opportunities available.

 

[clausewitz2]

Thanks for your input. Out of the senior residents that I've talked to, they always say to value lifestyle over prestige.

I'd be interested to get an attending's perspective on how much it matters if you graduate from a top tier academic program vs a mid tier academic program. I have no idea what my post-grad plans are but I like to keep my options open and set myself up for the best opportunities available.

One of the tragedies of the human experience is that at some point you must make choices about what you are going to do and there will be opportunities and directions you will never be able to exploit because of those choices.

What do you want to end up doing? Hardcore basic/translational research? Absolutely have to be teaching students and residents? Run a health system? Operate a private practice? Become a therapist who writes prescriptions sometimes? Advocacy and community work? Dedicated SMI/state hospital warrior?

Top-tier v mid-tier academic is important for some of those paths but not others.

 

[DrGoon]

Plenty of goodness in VT, ME, and upstate NY. It's not the West but enough to feel the stoke.

Gnarly brah time to shred some pow

 

[Old&InTheWay]

One of the tragedies of the human experience is that at some point you must make choices about what you are going to do and there will be opportunities and directions you will never be able to exploit because of those choices.

And if you think this feeling is intense around residency, wait until you have children. You are constantly trying to make decisions that have potentially huge impacts on a life you helped create and have some responsibility for. And you never know if you made the right decisions because you only get one shot at it and cannot know or see the outcomes from other potential choices. The feeling that you may have made a mistake can sometimes be haunting. "Choosing a residency," which is a really generous way to describe the process, is really just part of the same experience of bumbling your way through life while believing (trying to convince yourself?) that you have used your wisdom as a guide. I'm not sure I see it as so much as tragic than absurd. But I try not to take life so seriously all the time.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

....

What do you want to end up doing? Hardcore basic/translational research? Absolutely have to be teaching students and residents? Run a health system? Operate a private practice? Become a therapist who writes prescriptions sometimes? Advocacy and community work? Dedicated SMI/state hospital warrior?

Top-tier v mid-tier academic is important for THE FIRST ONE but noNE OF the others.

Fixed it...

 

[Monocles]

Yeah I got the vibe that HSS would be great for addictions. I was mainly just a little worried about the amount of VA work that the residency is made up of. Don’t get me wrong I love the veteran population but am hoping to get some exposure to patients with more diverse experiences. It was reassuring to hear that the program has many different affiliated hospitals that the residents rotate through. The Harvard affiliation and rotations through McLean make the program very enticing.

No you're absolutely right. I think talking with a friend there the salary is paid mostly by the VA (with a slight contribution from HMS) which means they have a limit on how much they can rotate outside of the VA. Having pgy 3 outpatient exclusively in the VA is a huge training deficit imo

 

[NickNaylor]

I would worry about being at a program predominantly or significantly based at the VA. The VA is its own beast with the good and bad that comes along with it, and I agree with the above that having most of your exposure in that system results in a relatively narrow training experience. The ability to work in many different training sites shouldn't be undervalued.

 

[DrGoon]

No you're absolutely right. I think talking with a friend there the salary is paid mostly by the VA (with a slight contribution from HMS) which means they have a limit on how much they can rotate outside of the VA. Having pgy 3 outpatient exclusively in the VA is a huge training deficit imo

I would worry about being at a program predominantly or significantly based at the VA. The VA is its own beast with the good and bad that comes along with it, and I agree with the above that having most of your exposure in that system results in a relatively narrow training experience. The ability to work in many different training sites shouldn't be undervalued.

Do you think it would be feasible during PGY4 to schedule enough non-VA rotations in order to have enough diverse experiences?

It seemed like they were very flexible as to where you did your elective rotations. I'm just unsure if this one year is enough time to play catch up and have a well rounded exposure.

The program really looks like a great fit for me, and this is really one of the only drawbacks that I'm seeing.

 

[NickNaylor]

Do you think it would be feasible during PGY4 to schedule enough non-VA rotations in order to have enough diverse experiences?

It seemed like they were very flexible as to where you did your elective rotations. I'm just unsure if this one year is enough time to play catch up and have a well rounded exposure.

The program really looks like a great fit for me, and this is really one of the only drawbacks that I'm seeing.

Maybe, but I do think there's value in longitudinal exposure to as many different clinical sites/system as you can during training. In my mind that would be the ideal, though, as you said, that's obviously just one factor among many to consider.

 

[intern_at_HSSpsych]

I guess I’ll be the first to drop some program names. As a background I’m interested in addiction and neuromodulation and would like to go to an academic program that has robust training in each field. Location is not so important to me; however, I would prefer to live in or near a city, but quality of program trumps this.

Top four in no particular order are Baylor, Harvard south shore, Dartmouth and Mayo.

Next three are UT Austin, University of Florida, and LSU NOLA. Again no particular order

Any insight as to how you would rank given these choices. Bottom of my list is already set and don’t need much advice with those.

I'm excited to see HSS on your list, current intern there. I've been really happy. Since I see it discussed above I thought I'd say - in PGY1 you spend 2months at Mclean hospital, 4 months at Mclean in PGY2, 3 months at Beth Israel and other non-VA sites in PGY2, 1/2 day per week in PGY3 at a non-VA site. We are VA heavy (being centered on a VA), but I have an optimistic view of the experiences I've had so far and those coming up. We get a lot of addictions exposure, but we're also the tertiary referral center for all VAs in New England, so we do still get diverse pathology. Obviously diverse pathology at Mclean hospital. And in addition to loving my co-interns and the places we work, I've also enjoyed rotating alongside the residents from the other Harvard-affiliated programs. Great people in Boston in my experience.

I'm glad we're on your list!

Good luck no matter what order you settle on!

 

[unicornhorn]

I'm curious if anyone has any insight into my current top 4. I have been endlessly debating how I am going to rank CHA, Cornell, Brown, and UChicago. All programs seemed great in different respects and I would be happy to end up at any of them, which is a great problem, but I imagine will make actually ranking them difficult.

I am interested in becoming a psychodynamic psychiatrist (maybe pursuing analytic training down the road), and also potentially interested in child and adolescent fellowship. Location wise my partner has a preference for NYC or Chicago, but is flexible (although not thrilled about the potential commute from Providence to Boston matching at Brown would involve) on my end I have a love hate relationship with NYC, and would much rather end up in New England or Chicago.

Brown - While maybe the least psychodynamic of the 4, something about the program just really spoke to me and felt like it could be a really good environment for me. The emphasis on flexibility and early 4 month exposure to child psych seemed like great opportunities to explore my career interests. I felt like the resident culture was a really good fit for me. Butler hospital was beautiful. I really have a soft spot for this program, but the location isn't ideal, and could be a stressor on my relationship with my partner. I really enjoyed my interviews here, and thought the PD seemed amazing, and I would love the opportunity to work with her. Location is a concern with Brown as far as my partners commute to Boston, and I do wonder how I should evaluate gut feel, which was very positive with Brown, versus fit of interests in psychodynamic psychiatry which was greater at other programs.

CHA - I loved the psychodynamic and warm feel of the program plus the flexibility (6 weeks of elective 1st year). I do worry that maybe I haven't cultivated the same depth of social justice involvement as many of the residents, but I would certainly be open to being shaped by an environment that values that type of engagement. The child psych fellowship here seems like it would be perfect for my psychodynamics interests, and desire to learn a lot about play therapy. I was very impressed by the intellectual depth of all of the residents and faculty I met at the program. This program seems like a great fit on many levels for me: location, vibe, intellectual curiosity, and flexibility. Also living in Cambridge would be awesome, and the greater Boston community of psychiatry seems like a great environment to explore my psychoanalytic interest in.

Cornell - The psychoanalytic bent of the program is a perfect fit for my interests. I felt like the residents I met here were a good match for me personality wise, and I really enjoyed talking to everyone I met. I am not sure if I need to be in NYC, and the added work that most people take on in NYC residencies as the price of the location isn't something I am sure I want, along those lines although embarrassing to admit I also do worry about the NYC workload on the off service medicine months. Cornell seems to be the place to be for exposure to psychoanalytic thinking and I imagine being exposed to so many faculty so invested in my area of interest would be a fantastic opportunity. I just don't love NYC, which is my major reservation with this program, but at the same time I may be overly fixating on location at the cost of a program that I think I could be really happy at in terms of area of expertise and residents/faculty who I really enjoyed meeting.

UChicago - This is the location I ultimately hope to end up in for practice, and I do wonder if there is a benefit to doing residency where you ultimately want to settle. I really liked the psychodynamic feel of the program, and the ability to work with UChicago students in therapy. It would also be really cool to be able to start connecting to the Chicago psychoanalytic institute during residency and maybe even start the first year of analytic training during 4th year of residency. My worries with this program are the small department size, and that I really didn't feel like a great fit with the residents I met although they were certainly lovely people - some of this could have just been my own nerves though as I was really stressed about wanting the program to be a perfect fit due to my desire to make location in Chicago work. I also wonder if the child psych residency here is of the same caliber of the ones attached to some of the other programs I am interested in. The positives with Chicago are location, psychodynamic emphasis, and flexibility of the curriculum.

In my mind I could see myself ranking each one of these programs 1 depending on what I think is most important on a day-to-day basis. I would be curious about the community's opinion on what programs they would prefer with my set of interests and circumstances. Thanks for the help!

I interviewed at Brown and CHA but did not apply to the other two. My two cents is that if psychodynamic psychotherapy is what you see yourself doing in the future, go to CHA. No other program will allow you to take on as many therapy patients, they have a reputation of being one of the strongest if not the strongest place to receive psychotherapy training, the Boston Psychoanalytic Institute is right there. They bleed psychotherapy yet remain a warm and cozy program.

I similarly had strong positive gut reactions about Brown, loved the facilities, etc. so I definitely understand the draw (but the location is not the best for my partner or my clinical interests, which was a huge bummer). No doubt the early child exposure is great but I think you could have similar child exposure early on at CHA with the PGY1 electives. Also, many CHA residents go on to do C&A at Brown nd get the Bradley experience.

Good luck!! It’d a good quandary to be in when you’d be happy with any in your top 4.

 

[unicornhorn]

I interviewed at Brown and CHA but did not apply to the other two. My two cents is that if psychodynamic psychotherapy is what you see yourself doing in the future, go to CHA. No other program will allow you to take on as many therapy patients, they have a reputation of being one of the strongest if not the strongest place to receive psychotherapy training, the Boston Psychoanalytic Institute is right there. They bleed psychotherapy yet remain a warm and cozy program.

I similarly had strong positive gut reactions about Brown, loved the facilities, etc. so I definitely understand the draw (but the location is not the best for my partner or my clinical interests, which was a huge bummer). No doubt the early child exposure is great but I think you could have similar child exposure early on at CHA with the PGY1 electives. Also, many CHA residents go on to do C&A at Brown nd get the Bradley experience.

Good luck!! It’d a good quandary to be in when you’d be happy with any in your top 4.

I should add that a resident I spoke to at CHA came to CHA for the psychotherapy training, not the social justice/underserved aspect and felt his needs were well met.

 

[Monocles]

I'm curious if anyone has any insight into my current top 4. I have been endlessly debating how I am going to rank CHA, Cornell, Brown, and UChicago. All programs seemed great in different respects and I would be happy to end up at any of them, which is a great problem, but I imagine will make actually ranking them difficult.

I am interested in becoming a psychodynamic psychiatrist (maybe pursuing analytic training down the road), and also potentially interested in child and adolescent fellowship. Location wise my partner has a preference for NYC or Chicago, but is flexible (although not thrilled about the potential commute from Providence to Boston matching at Brown would involve) on my end I have a love hate relationship with NYC, and would much rather end up in New England or Chicago.

Brown - While maybe the least psychodynamic of the 4, something about the program just really spoke to me and felt like it could be a really good environment for me. The emphasis on flexibility and early 4 month exposure to child psych seemed like great opportunities to explore my career interests. I felt like the resident culture was a really good fit for me. Butler hospital was beautiful. I really have a soft spot for this program, but the location isn't ideal, and could be a stressor on my relationship with my partner. I really enjoyed my interviews here, and thought the PD seemed amazing, and I would love the opportunity to work with her. Location is a concern with Brown as far as my partners commute to Boston, and I do wonder how I should evaluate gut feel, which was very positive with Brown, versus fit of interests in psychodynamic psychiatry which was greater at other programs.

CHA - I loved the psychodynamic and warm feel of the program plus the flexibility (6 weeks of elective 1st year). I do worry that maybe I haven't cultivated the same depth of social justice involvement as many of the residents, but I would certainly be open to being shaped by an environment that values that type of engagement. The child psych fellowship here seems like it would be perfect for my psychodynamics interests, and desire to learn a lot about play therapy. I was very impressed by the intellectual depth of all of the residents and faculty I met at the program. This program seems like a great fit on many levels for me: location, vibe, intellectual curiosity, and flexibility. Also living in Cambridge would be awesome, and the greater Boston community of psychiatry seems like a great environment to explore my psychoanalytic interest in.

Cornell - The psychoanalytic bent of the program is a perfect fit for my interests. I felt like the residents I met here were a good match for me personality wise, and I really enjoyed talking to everyone I met. I am not sure if I need to be in NYC, and the added work that most people take on in NYC residencies as the price of the location isn't something I am sure I want, along those lines although embarrassing to admit I also do worry about the NYC workload on the off service medicine months. Cornell seems to be the place to be for exposure to psychoanalytic thinking and I imagine being exposed to so many faculty so invested in my area of interest would be a fantastic opportunity. I just don't love NYC, which is my major reservation with this program, but at the same time I may be overly fixating on location at the cost of a program that I think I could be really happy at in terms of area of expertise and residents/faculty who I really enjoyed meeting.

UChicago - This is the location I ultimately hope to end up in for practice, and I do wonder if there is a benefit to doing residency where you ultimately want to settle. I really liked the psychodynamic feel of the program, and the ability to work with UChicago students in therapy. It would also be really cool to be able to start connecting to the Chicago psychoanalytic institute during residency and maybe even start the first year of analytic training during 4th year of residency. My worries with this program are the small department size, and that I really didn't feel like a great fit with the residents I met although they were certainly lovely people - some of this could have just been my own nerves though as I was really stressed about wanting the program to be a perfect fit due to my desire to make location in Chicago work. I also wonder if the child psych residency here is of the same caliber of the ones attached to some of the other programs I am interested in. The positives with Chicago are location, psychodynamic emphasis, and flexibility of the curriculum.

In my mind I could see myself ranking each one of these programs 1 depending on what I think is most important on a day-to-day basis. I would be curious about the community's opinion on what programs they would prefer with my set of interests and circumstances. Thanks for the help!

Everyone on this forum knows how I gush about CHA every year. (Full disclosure, I am not a Cambridge resident and most of what I hear is through friends at different Harvard systems!) I know that their residents are VERY happy and well trained. The program has a heavy psychotherapy/analysis focus. They are also one of the few residencies in Boston that is unionised, meaning that residents have a strong voice with good work/life balance and reasonable work-hour restrictions. The only (potential) downside (or upside lol!) is that they are very "social justice" oriented so if that's not your thing you might be the odd duck out, but regardless they treat everyone very well.

Brown is also a very strong and well regarded program. People there also seem very happy and learn a lot. Not sure who the current PD is but back in my day Dr Guthrie(?) was very supportive of her residents. When I was applying I ranked Brown the highest out of all my non-Boston programs (really wanted to be in Boston at the time). Work-life balance is also reasonable here as well.

Don't know much about Cornell or UChicago!

 

[SourceOfDenial]

Looking for general insight - my top 6 are essentially (order TBD):
1) MGH/McLean
2) Yale
3) U Washington
4) OHSU
5) USC/LAC
6) Dartmouth

I have family on both the West coast and the East coast. I would prefer to live in a larger city but I have lived in a rural setting before and really liked it. I am mostly interested in Community and Cultural Psych with a few niche interests (women’s mental health, LGBT mental health.) I am unsure how much therapy I will want to practice in the future but I really want a strong general foundation as well as good exposure to DBT, family, and couples. I am not wild about the high COL for most of these places but am unsure how to factor that into my decision making since they are all likely to be more expansive then where I currently am (Midwest.)

All thoughts welcome!

If you're wanting therapy and couples + family work I'd probably put Yale highest(of the east coast programs). I'd also prioritize a program the supported and encouraged your own personal therapy and allowed for exploration of systems theories.

 

[SmallBird]

I'm curious if anyone has any insight into my current top 4. I have been endlessly debating how I am going to rank CHA, Cornell, Brown, and UChicago. All programs seemed great in different respects and I would be happy to end up at any of them, which is a great problem, but I imagine will make actually ranking them difficult.

I am interested in becoming a psychodynamic psychiatrist (maybe pursuing analytic training down the road), and also potentially interested in child and adolescent fellowship. Location wise my partner has a preference for NYC or Chicago, but is flexible (although not thrilled about the potential commute from Providence to Boston matching at Brown would involve) on my end I have a love hate relationship with NYC, and would much rather end up in New England or Chicago.

Brown - While maybe the least psychodynamic of the 4, something about the program just really spoke to me and felt like it could be a really good environment for me. The emphasis on flexibility and early 4 month exposure to child psych seemed like great opportunities to explore my career interests. I felt like the resident culture was a really good fit for me. Butler hospital was beautiful. I really have a soft spot for this program, but the location isn't ideal, and could be a stressor on my relationship with my partner. I really enjoyed my interviews here, and thought the PD seemed amazing, and I would love the opportunity to work with her. Location is a concern with Brown as far as my partners commute to Boston, and I do wonder how I should evaluate gut feel, which was very positive with Brown, versus fit of interests in psychodynamic psychiatry which was greater at other programs.

CHA - I loved the psychodynamic and warm feel of the program plus the flexibility (6 weeks of elective 1st year). I do worry that maybe I haven't cultivated the same depth of social justice involvement as many of the residents, but I would certainly be open to being shaped by an environment that values that type of engagement. The child psych fellowship here seems like it would be perfect for my psychodynamics interests, and desire to learn a lot about play therapy. I was very impressed by the intellectual depth of all of the residents and faculty I met at the program. This program seems like a great fit on many levels for me: location, vibe, intellectual curiosity, and flexibility. Also living in Cambridge would be awesome, and the greater Boston community of psychiatry seems like a great environment to explore my psychoanalytic interest in.

Cornell - The psychoanalytic bent of the program is a perfect fit for my interests. I felt like the residents I met here were a good match for me personality wise, and I really enjoyed talking to everyone I met. I am not sure if I need to be in NYC, and the added work that most people take on in NYC residencies as the price of the location isn't something I am sure I want, along those lines although embarrassing to admit I also do worry about the NYC workload on the off service medicine months. Cornell seems to be the place to be for exposure to psychoanalytic thinking and I imagine being exposed to so many faculty so invested in my area of interest would be a fantastic opportunity. I just don't love NYC, which is my major reservation with this program, but at the same time I may be overly fixating on location at the cost of a program that I think I could be really happy at in terms of area of expertise and residents/faculty who I really enjoyed meeting.

UChicago - This is the location I ultimately hope to end up in for practice, and I do wonder if there is a benefit to doing residency where you ultimately want to settle. I really liked the psychodynamic feel of the program, and the ability to work with UChicago students in therapy. It would also be really cool to be able to start connecting to the Chicago psychoanalytic institute during residency and maybe even start the first year of analytic training during 4th year of residency. My worries with this program are the small department size, and that I really didn't feel like a great fit with the residents I met although they were certainly lovely people - some of this could have just been my own nerves though as I was really stressed about wanting the program to be a perfect fit due to my desire to make location in Chicago work. I also wonder if the child psych residency here is of the same caliber of the ones attached to some of the other programs I am interested in. The positives with Chicago are location, psychodynamic emphasis, and flexibility of the curriculum.

In my mind I could see myself ranking each one of these programs 1 depending on what I think is most important on a day-to-day basis. I would be curious about the community's opinion on what programs they would prefer with my set of interests and circumstances. Thanks for the help!

Three great programs. UChicago seems a definite outlier to me - as you point out, much smaller faculty, really an order of magnitude. The talented residents I met from there all branches out for fellowship.

 

[Evidence Based]

Looking for general insight - my top 6 are essentially (order TBD):
1) MGH/McLean
2) Yale
3) U Washington
4) OHSU
5) USC/LAC
6) Dartmouth

I have family on both the West coast and the East coast. I would prefer to live in a larger city but I have lived in a rural setting before and really liked it. I am mostly interested in Community and Cultural Psych with a few niche interests (women’s mental health, LGBT mental health.) I am unsure how much therapy I will want to practice in the future but I really want a strong general foundation as well as good exposure to DBT, family, and couples. I am not wild about the high COL for most of these places but am unsure how to factor that into my decision making since they are all likely to be more expansive then where I currently am (Midwest.)

All thoughts welcome!

These are all wonderful programs- I second the above rec, I loved Yale when I went there. Great mix of big name academics with more laid back culture (relatively speaking) and great public and community exposure. MGH is obviously a well-known and regarded program, but if you're truly really interested in cultural and community psych it's less of a good fit as it probably has the least exposure to that population out of anywhere on your list. I would think hard before putting it at the top of your list if it's just for the name.

 

[Monocles]

Looking for general insight - my top 6 are essentially (order TBD):
1) MGH/McLean
2) Yale
3) U Washington
4) OHSU
5) USC/LAC
6) Dartmouth

I have family on both the West coast and the East coast. I would prefer to live in a larger city but I have lived in a rural setting before and really liked it. I am mostly interested in Community and Cultural Psych with a few niche interests (women’s mental health, LGBT mental health.) I am unsure how much therapy I will want to practice in the future but I really want a strong general foundation as well as good exposure to DBT, family, and couples. I am not wild about the high COL for most of these places but am unsure how to factor that into my decision making since they are all likely to be more expansive then where I currently am (Midwest.)

All thoughts welcome!

MGH/McLean is excellent training but the MGH months tend to work you pretty hard. I think the medicine months are either MGH or Newton-Wellesley and they work you very hard like a medicine intern with 80-100h (?) not sure if that's changed. Inpt psych at MGH used to be on Blake 11 which was notorious for residents staying to 9-10 pm to finish their work and coming back the next morning, I don't remember where it is now. McLean rotations tend to be on the lighter side. You have good opportunities to transition your resident outpatient panel to your own private practice which is pretty $$$

Yale is also excellent training and my friends there say the hours are much more manageable. If you can manage to swing some "research months" life can be pretty cush.

Boston is by far more expensive than New Haven. comparable COL is about 1/3 cheaper in New Haven.

 

[Psychonergic]

There's been some stuff written in the past, but I'd be curious if there's any new input on Baystate? Not sure where to place this in my list...

 

[autopoietic]

My interests are at the intersection of child psych and refugee/immigrant/intercultural psych. I'm flexible with geography and city size. If I had to give my best guess, I'd say I'd end up living in the mountain west after training, but I'm open to where life sweeps me! Bonus points for a program that has good access to year-round hiking and natural landscapes. These 5 programs are all vying for my number 1!

New Mexico seemed like a terrific fit: really palpable commitment to marginalized communities and some of the faculty members are basically who I want to be, conducting asylum evals, caring for migrant children, working at UNM's refugee clinic (all of which I can be meaningfully involved in during my 3 years of adult training!), meanwhile publishing, advocating, and speaking on mental health in these populations. Plus, the landscape is stunning with diverse terrains, temperature is pretty mild all year, and it's easy to hit up Utah/CO for even !more! nature (and residents really seem able to access all of this natural glory often!). Training seemed solid, strong psychotherapy which I appreciate, residents felt happy, and faculty trained across the country and seemed very invested in education. A downside could be that there's minimal exposure to the worried well.

However, these other 4 programs complicate things.
Vermont: I loved the small program, the progressive town, the humane mental health care, and the availability of resources for patients. Though I enjoyed the residents everywhere I've interviewed, I think I'm most similar to the Vermont residents. Perhaps sparkliest of all is the Family Based Approach that is practiced in their child psych clinics: wowowow. It's child psych as it should be with psych evals for the whole family and bountiful wellness resources available. Big con: not very diverse culturally. Sure, there's a Bhutanese refugee population, but it's not very significant. Do I pass up exposure to intercultural psychiatry to obtain really excellent, unique child training? Same question goes for Dartmouth: both are very homogenous locales, but should I consider waiting until after training to develop expertise in refugee/immigrant psych in order to access top-notch general/child training? I'd feel a little down pressing pause on this important aspect of my career goals for 5 years, but if it makes me more effective in the long-run, I can surely do it and will enjoy general psych along the way!

Boston U: very well-established refugee clinic, many experts in refugee/immigrant mental health come from BU, strong commitment to underserved.

Dartmouth and UTSW: can I really rank the other 3 over these 2 super solid programs? Both have a diverse array of expert faculty, excellent resources available to residents, and are very well-regarded from what I understand. Both regularly send residents to tippy top child programs (MGH, Yale, Stanford). (Note: the other 3 programs also send residents to those child fellowship, but with less frequency). Could having those names/connections/trainings behind me lend me more of a platform to be an advocate for refugee/immigrant child psych at a national level? It's hard for me to believe training is *that* different among university programs, but maybe they are? Should I simply head to New Mexico and start immersing in the populations I most imagine myself working with? Or should I jive with experts at BU or obtain unique child training that I can take with me from Vermont?

In my shoes, how would you square all of this? Any thoughts are very appreciated!

 

[kevinc2]

If you are interested in child, I feel like dartmouth name opened a lot of doors for me for fellowships- i have gotten interview invites for child almost everywhere- i applied to mostly west coast programs- stanford, UCSF, uwashington, ucsd, etc. As you probably know, we sent our past 2 grads to MGH child fellowships. Having said that, child fellowships in general are not that competitive and only few programs are truly selective so i don't think going to any of the programs you mention wouldn't close doors. If you are interested in child psych, I wouldn't worry too much about exposures you get during resident- you just need some limited exposure to make sure child psych is a right fit for you. You will learn how to do child psychiatry during fellowships

In terms of immigrant/refugee populations, dartmouth probably lags behind other programs that are on your list. There are ways to "get around it"- for example, during our 3rd year, we have to do one day of community mental health all over NH- I go to a site in Manchester, which is more urban- I am in the ACT team and I think about 40% of patients are ethnic minorities almost all over them refugee populations- most common translator language that i used (about 1/3 of time) is French actually due to refugees from Haiti and West Africa. You can also go to Concord where they have more refugee populations. Two of our residents also found a way to do one day of therapy/week during 3rd year at a VA clinic in Burlington, VT which has more immigrant populations.

I feel like dartmouth gave me a really strong clinical training. Now that I see more immigrant populations, there are some cultural factors to be mindful of, but at the end of the day- psychiatry is psychiatry- I think becoming a good clinician is most important and then you have a strong foundation to apply cultural knowledge.

But, I can make also a case that at the end of the day, I think you should go to a program that is willing to cater to your passion or interest- you should consider emailing PDs to share your passion and to see how they can make electives/residency work for you (if you haven't done so during interview days).

 

[FlowRate]

I'm actually kinda surprised that the 'other' Harvard programs have a good reputation... I didn't even bother applying to them lol.

Why? BWH and BIDMC are huge academic institutions with excellent individual training programs and were combined as part of Longwood psych which was also great. CHA has been well covered above.

 

[ridethecliche]

Why? BWH and BIDMC are huge academic institutions with excellent individual training programs and were combined as part of Longwood psych which was also great. CHA has been well covered above.

Those are clearly not the ones I'm talking about. Please see the post I was responding to for context. It was in reference to Harvard South Shore and anything else that's an offshoot like that. You didn't mention HSS so...

I did research and worked in Beantown for a long time... I know those other spots quite well.

I also realize that I was likely misinformed about HSS, since it appears to be a VA and addictions focused program, but I didn't see it anywhere in the rankings and it was never really brought up during conversations I had about where to apply. I wouldn't have applied there due to location anyway but that's neither here nor there!

 

[DrGoon]

Those are clearly not the ones I'm talking about. Please see the post I was responding to for context. It was in reference to Harvard South Shore and anything else that's an offshoot like that. You didn't mention HSS so...

I did research and worked in Beantown for a long time... I know those other spots quite well.

So by "other Harvard programs" you were only referring to HSS

 

[ridethecliche]

So by "other Harvard programs" you were only referring to HSS

Yes... I thought there were more offshoots with Harvard in the name... If there's a south shore program, why not a north shore one as well?

North Shore Medical Center | Hospitals & Services | Partners HealthCare

It's really not that complicated and it really doesn't matter haha. I like.... honestly didn't know about it.