Forum Members Official: Job Offer Thread

[icebreaker32]

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Edit: I shouldn't say offers but salary expectations.

Yah the job market is horrible. It always has been and it is not going to change anytime soon.

For as much as an insult as a 75K job advertisement is in a high cost of living area at least they are honest. Many of the posted jobs salaries for private practice that actually sound reasonable are not even salaries at all.....bait and switch as they are just "salary expectations" with a low or sometimes even no base.

Podiatry's job market used to be even worse. Podiatry has more organizational jobs than it used to. Just enough that they are highly visible and seem attainable when they are actually competitive and hard to get.

In many healthcare professions one will get a job with a fair salary, good benefits and often a signing bonus, relocation assistance and loan assistance/forgiveness. Graduate from a podiatry residency and you most likely will have to either create your opportunity or accept an offer that is rather embarrassing considering our cost and length of education.

 

[bloxxeeey]

Yah the job market is horrible. It always has been and it is not going to change anytime soon.

For as much as an insult as a 75K job advertisement is in a high cost of living area at least they are honest. Many of the posted jobs salaries for private practice that actually sound reasonable are not even salaries at all.....bait and switch as they are just "salary expectations" with a low or sometimes even no base.

Podiatry's job market used to be even worse. Podiatry has more organizational jobs than it used to. Just enough that they are highly visible and seem attainable when they are actually competitive and hard to get.

In many healthcare professions one will get a job with a fair salary, good benefits and often a signing bonus, relocation assistance and loan assistance/forgiveness. Graduate from a podiatry residency and you most likely will have to either create your opportunity or accept an offer that is rather embarrassing considering our cost and length of education.

I think most nurses, PA's and doctors usually get benefits, decent PTO, relocation, sign-on bonuses. I'd be very shocked to get more than 1 of those even in a rural area.

 

[bloxxeeey]

I guess if I don't have anything secured by the end of fall I need to have a serious discussion with my wife about possibly going back to school. I'm not sure what degrees offer good ROI's but maybe I would be competitive for a PA degree? I know they make around the same as a podiatrist but at least they have the option to do overtime in positions like the ED where they can net more pay with good benefits. I'm already used to putting in 80 hours a week as a resident, as a PA that would net me some big bucks.

 

[icebreaker32]

I guess if I don't have anything secured by the end of fall I need to have a serious discussion with my wife about possibly going back to school. I'm not sure what degrees offer good ROI's but maybe I would be competitive for a PA degree? I know they make around the same as a podiatrist but at least they have the option to do overtime in positions like the ED where they can net more pay with good benefits. I'm already used to putting in 80 hours a week as a resident, as a PA that would net me some big bucks.

If you are a resident I would probably not give up on podiatry just yet. Even though the benefits are usually poor one can usually make just enough in podiatry that it ends up not making sense to leave. Just for the sake of being thorough it does not hurt to run the numbers if you are competitive for other programs such as DO and PA etc.

But yah you might have to get real with your wife as to the realities of our job market. It only takes one good job or self made opportunity and then suddenly podiatry actually kinda of sorta of seems like a hidden gem…..well honestly that is going to far but you get my point. Like you have been told remain very geographically open. It might be time to expand your job search to bear country, swamps and corn fields if you have not done so already.

If you have just a couple bad initial associate years of employment after residency and turn things around then this all might just seems like a cruel rite of passage that some forget almost completely with time. If you don’t turn things around then podiatry becomes a big lie with one of the worst job markets and lowest basements for salary imaginable. The reality is podiatry is both of these things at the same time. It is bipolar. It is lots of haves and have nots. It is very saturated and not an essential specialty.

Do yourself a favor and keep pounding the pavement. Your interview skills will improve. You might eventually find a job that stands out a bit from the rest even if is not wonderful and maybe just maybe you will actually find or create a good job.

 

[heybrother]

You aren't going to go back to school and if you do your wife will leave you. You're going to settle and constantly look for new opportunities or ultimately start your own practice. You'll suffer for 3-5 years and then finally own your own thing, make $200K working 3.5 days a week and tell people forever on this forum not to be a podiatrist. Then 15 years from now you'll try to overcharge your own associate when they ask you to buy in because of all the suffering you went through. The associate will balk and you'll be paying for 5 staff on your own and wondering why you don't make enough money. Some new fancy thing will come along and or you'll fall back on the old defraud Medicare on anti-fungal foot baths. You'll go to federal prison and all through your sentencing you'll bitterly complaint that there's just no money to be made anymore. Its the circle of life.

 

[icebreaker32]

You aren't going to go back to school and if you do your wife will leave you. You're going to settle and constantly look for new opportunities or ultimately start your own practice. You'll suffer for 3-5 years and then finally own your own thing, make $200K working 3.5 days a week and tell people forever on this forum not to be a podiatrist. Then 15 years from now you'll try to overcharge your own associate when they ask you to buy in because of all the suffering you went through. The associate will balk and you'll be paying for 5 staff on your own and wondering why you don't make enough money. Some new fancy thing will come along and or you'll fall back on the old defraud Medicare on anti-fungal foot baths. You'll go to federal prison and all through your sentencing you'll bitterly complaint that there's just no money to be made anymore. Its the circle of life.

As I recall now his wife does very, very, very well. If after a couple years he is stuck in a dead end associate job then he has a much better chance than most to successfully open a solo practice where he wants to live without worrying about paying rent or putting food on the table. I mean it is honestly unfortunate podiatry is like this, but odds are you will end up OK if not much better than OK eventually in your situation.

 

[deleted1142046]

Haven't posted in a while.

95K in very high cost of living city, bonus after 400k collections (35%), 10 days PTO, no health care or 401k.

140k, straight salary, no bonus, benefits include health insurance and 401k (not sure of match). 15 days pto. Two weeks of call per month. They did want me to sign a 3 year contract though which I felt was a lot. Higher than average cost of living city.

For the 140K job:

#1) How much "call" is your call? Is this you answer phone calls from patients once or twice a week, or you are managing several inpatients and riding the pus bus in the ED?

#2) What happens if you leave before your contract is up? What stops you from learning as much as you can while making $140k/year and applying for new and better jobs the entire time? Then when you get one, you leave.

A lot of times when you quit before you finish your contract you forfeit your bonus. Obviously this is a non-issue here. You could probably sign a 30 year contract with them and just leave when you have something better lined up.

 

[Feli]

... I'm already used to putting in 80 hours a week as a resident, as a PA that would net me some big bucks.

That doesn't last forever.

Be aware of that.

I'm early 40s now, and you need more sleep to function well. Your energy is lower. Sleep is your repair time.

The guys who keep going with much on-call, long days, early or late days crash and burn. Most of them are bald, fat, unhealthy, divorced, whatever. I'm sure you saw this with attendings or just DPMs you know or know of.

You have to prioritize your health (physical and mental) over wealth. Trading less sleep or more stress for a bit more money is a bad trade.

...you won't starve in podiatry. You probably won't make truckloads of $ and do amazing either. Most of the org job DPMs make ok money but work real hard or compromise scope... and majority are in locations they never thought they'd go. Most PP owners do ok, but they probably aren't killing it unless they farm associates and/or do scammy stuff. Most associates are getting milked or paid peanuts.

...so, what do you do? Be an associate. Learn. See how it works. See if you like it once the training wheels are off. Make a budget. If your partner/spouse is a high earner but location dependent, go there. If they are high-earning location independent, go where you find a good gig. Enjoy your weekends and hobbies and your fairly enjoyable job and hopefully making at least nurse money.

Podiatry is not that bad once you get over thinking it'll get you rich or feed a whole family well or that you'll have good jobs anywhere (like MD). It barely ever will. But you can still do fine. It can always be worse.

 

[bloxxeeey]

That doesn't last forever.

Be aware of that.

I'm early 40s now, and you need more sleep to function well. Your energy is lower. Sleep is your repair time.

The guys who keep going with much on-call, long days, early or late days crash and burn. Most of them are bald, fat, unhealthy, divorced, whatever. I'm sure you saw this with attendings or just DPMs you know or know of.

You have to prioritize your health (physical and mental) over wealth. Trading less sleep or more stress for a bit more money is a bad trade.

...you won't starve in podiatry. You probably won't make truckloads of $ and do amazing either. Most of the org job DPMs make ok money but work real hard or compromise scope... and majority are in locations they never thought they'd go. Most PP owners do ok, but they probably aren't killing it unless they farm associates and/or do scammy stuff. Most associates are getting milked or paid peanuts.

...so, what do you do? Be an associate. Learn. See how it works. See if you like it once the training wheels are off. Make a budget. If your partner/spouse is a high earner but location dependent, go there. If they are high-earning location independent, go where you find a good gig. Enjoy your weekends and hobbies and your fairly enjoyable job and hopefully making at least nurse money.

Podiatry is not that bad once you get over thinking it'll get you rich or feed a whole family well or that you'll have good jobs anywhere (like MD). It barely ever will. But you can still do fine. It can always be worse.

I guess one of the benefits of this career I've spent 7 years working and not living my life to get to this point. I've lost a lot of friends and hobbies which has made my life simpler. I got to spend the entire summer and most of my fall studying for ABFAS then I get to do it again possibly. All while being overworked and treated badly at work. So working 80 hours and being paid would be my hobby if I was a PA. I get it, you get older and you want to enjoy life but I haven't been able to for some time so why not just continue to push forward if I can do this and I'm surviving?

 

[HeySister]

I guess one of the benefits of this career I've spent 7 years working and not living my life to get to this point. I've lost a lot of friends and hobbies which has made my life simpler. I got to spend the entire summer and most of my fall studying for ABFAS then I get to do it again possibly. All while being overworked and treated badly at work. So working 80 hours and being paid would be my hobby if I was a PA. I get it, you get older and you want to enjoy life but I haven't been able to for some time so why not just continue to push forward if I can do this and I'm surviving?

If your spouse does financially well you should just humble yourself to the reality of podiatry and find your best opportunity in a location that supports your spouse the best. That hurts but these are the limitations of podiatry.

 

[bloxxeeey]

If your spouse does financially well you should just humble yourself to the reality of podiatry and find your best opportunity in a location that supports your spouse the best. That hurts but these are the limitations of podiatry.

It's hard to come to terms with. I just also struggling with slaving away for someone for subpar pay, no benefits, no PTO. I had a coresident take a job with 5 days PTO... I really think going back to school is a fairly valid option, at least I'll slave away for good job opportunities and can work 6 days a week pulling closer to 200k with a PA salary vs a podiatry 5 days a week pulling half of that.

 

[icebreaker32]

It's hard to come to terms with. I just also struggling with slaving away for someone for subpar pay, no benefits, no PTO. I had a coresident take a job with 5 days PTO... I really think going back to school is a fairly valid option.

You are in the same situation as most others. I would take the best job you can get based on whatever your pros/cons list is and keep applying for better jobs. Give it a couple years then if you are still unhappy make the hard decision to choose another career or the more likely scenario of opening your own office.

You are at the most depressing part of your journey. The podiatry job market is absolutely horrible compared to most of healthcare and especially for the time and money we put in it does not seem fair. As I have stated already it only takes one good job or creating your own opportunity, then podiatry can quickly go from bad to pretty good.

 

[bloxxeeey]

You are in the same situation as most others. I would take the best job you can get based on whatever your pros/cons list is and keep applying for better jobs. Give it a couple years then if you are still unhappy make the hard decision to choose another career or the more likely scenario of opening your own office.

You are at the most depressing part of your journey. The podiatry job market is absolutely horrible compared to most of healthcare and especially for the time and money we put in it does not seem fair. As I have stated already it only takes one good job or creating your own opportunity, then podiatry can quickly go from bad to pretty good.

I just can't invest more into this career, that was the attitude from the start. Hey maybe it'll get better, better not switch to something else now, every year for 7 years. So what I decide to when I'm in my 40's so the ROI is even lower. I slaved away at this career already what more can it take from me. Before I met my wife and got married (quick timeline less than 6 months) for the first year and a half of residency I did everything I could to save money to get to the point where I could possibly open a practice in the future at some point. I cut down my meals to 2 a day to save on groceries, I don't spend money on snacks or anything that isn't a necessity. I avoided using my health care plan because I'm terrified of a bill from a lab or some copay. I didn't drive to see friends locally, or even family for special occasions like birthdays, weddings etc to save money on gas. I limited my take-out and coffee to once a month. I avoided staying at home during peak electricity hours so I wouldn't spend more on electricity. I've been wearing the same clothes since high school and I'm fortunate the hospital supplies scrubs. I've been wearing the same shoes for 4 years. I avoided haircuts during this years. I don't plan trips/vacations, sorry I did once when the museum was free an hour a way from my residency I planned a day trip. I don't partake in hobbies that cost money anymore. I've been slaving away to save money and I keep getting hounded by attendings and practically everyone that it isn't possible to start a practice. I should just work for one of the attendings who will gladly offer me a 60k salary.

 

[Weirdy]

I just can't invest more into this career, that was the attitude from the start. Hey maybe it'll get better, better not switch to something else now, every year for 7 years. So what I decide to when I'm in my 40's so the ROI is even lower. I slaved away at this career already what more can it take from me. Before I met my wife and got married (quick timeline less than 6 months) for the first year and a half of residency I did everything I could to save money to get to the point where I could possibly open a practice in the future at some point. I cut down my meals to 2 a day to save on groceries, I don't spend money on snacks or anything that isn't a necessity. I avoided using my health care plan because I'm terrified of a bill from a lab or some copay. I didn't drive to see friends locally, or even family for special occasions like birthdays, weddings etc to save money on gas. I limited my take-out and coffee to once a month. I avoided staying at home during peak electricity hours so I wouldn't spend more on electricity. I've been wearing the same clothes since high school and I'm fortunate the hospital supplies scrubs. I've been wearing the same shoes for 4 years. I avoided haircuts during this years. I don't plan trips/vacations, sorry I did once when the museum was free an hour a way from my residency I planned a day trip. I don't partake in hobbies that cost money anymore. I've been slaving away to save money and I keep getting hounded by attendings and practically everyone that it isn't possible to start a practice. I should just work for one of the attendings who will gladly offer me a 60k salary.

Sounds like you've got some other problems that aren't related to the job market.....and I mean this in the nicest way possible.

Worst case take the highest 140k offer and start job searching while you work/get cases under your belt.

 

[icebreaker32]

I just can't invest more into this career, that was the attitude from the start. Hey maybe it'll get better, better not switch to something else now, every year for 7 years. So what I decide to when I'm in my 40's so the ROI is even lower. I slaved away at this career already what more can it take from me. Before I met my wife and got married (quick timeline less than 6 months) for the first year and a half of residency I did everything I could to save money to get to the point where I could possibly open a practice in the future at some point. I cut down my meals to 2 a day to save on groceries, I don't spend money on snacks or anything that isn't a necessity. I avoided using my health care plan because I'm terrified of a bill from a lab or some copay. I didn't drive to see friends locally, or even family for special occasions like birthdays, weddings etc to save money on gas. I limited my take-out and coffee to once a month. I avoided staying at home during peak electricity hours so I wouldn't spend more on electricity. I've been wearing the same clothes since high school and I'm fortunate the hospital supplies scrubs. I've been wearing the same shoes for 4 years. I avoided haircuts during this years. I don't plan trips/vacations, sorry I did once when the museum was free an hour a way from my residency I planned a day trip. I don't partake in hobbies that cost money anymore. I've been slaving away to save money and I keep getting hounded by attendings and practically everyone that it isn't possible to start a practice. I should just work for one of the attendings who will gladly offer me a 60k salary.

Yes give this profession a chance at this point even if it means you are in your 40s and make a career change later. Have some fun and possibly seek some counseling....depression can hit anyone at anytime and it is understandable one could be more prone to it in this profession facing our job market

Count your blessings also....you have a high earning wife. You live in America and there are worse places to be than finishing up a residency in this profession. You could be in an accident tomorrow and never be able to walk again. We all need to be told occasionally to put things into perspective and it sounds like you either need to hear this or need professional help.

 

[podiatryresident]

It's hard to come to terms with. I just also struggling with slaving away for someone for subpar pay, no benefits, no PTO. I had a coresident take a job with 5 days PTO... I really think going back to school is a fairly valid option, at least I'll slave away for good job opportunities and can work 6 days a week pulling closer to 200k with a PA salary vs a podiatry 5 days a week pulling half of that.

Hi, I don't think leaving the career and come back to school is the good idea. I know one of DPM who graduated podiatry school then he came back to study MD and then ortho residency. He didn't do podiatry residency. He's now practicing in SF. It may be worth it if you do similar thing! Going back to PA school is another 2-3 years, then starting the new career is always difficult, you won't make 150k as a PA right after school for most of PAs, I believe so ?
My problem is just I don't have energy to study ABFAS ITE and final ABFAS ITE next year if I keep reading the forum : ))

 

[bloxxeeey]

Yes give this profession a chance at this point even if it means you are in your 40s and make a career change later. Have some fun and possibly seek some counseling....depression can hit anyone at anytime and it is understandable one could be more prone to it in this profession facing our job market

Count your blessings also....you have a high earning wife. You live in America and there are worse places to be than finishing up a residency in this profession. You could be in an accident tomorrow and never be able to walk again. We all need to be told occasionally to put things into perspective and it sounds like you either need to hear this or need professional help.

I'm not depressed though. I'm completely happy with my life, just this job market is absolutely abysmal. I did all those things in the past because I wanted to be successful in this field but honestly it seems like it's very difficult to do that. The only bad part I'm having in this field is I used to be a confident man but attending's have torn me to shreds with bull**** that only podiatrist focus on being used to critique you. Oh and it's beautiful that we have the privilege of being treated like dirt for 7 years to maybe get treated like soil for as an attending.

 

[icebreaker32]

I'm not depressed though. I'm completely happy with my life, just this job market is absolutely abysmal. I did all those things in the past because I wanted to be successful in this field but honestly it seems like it's very difficult to do that. The only bad part I'm having in this field is I used to be a confident man but attending's have torn me to shreds with bull**** that only podiatrist focus on being used to critique you. Oh and it's beautiful that we have the privilege of being treated like dirt for 7 years to maybe get treated like soil for as an attending.

You will be done with residency before you know it. These attendings will not stop you from finishing your residency and in some cases if they act badly enough they can have legal repercussions these days.

Podiatry has always been a make your own opportunity profession.....nothing new there.

Probably 75 percent of others will have to face the same bad job market as you. It may not give you peace now but the good thing is probably 75 percent easily will do well enough to live an upper middle class lifestyle if they have a high earning spouse....which you have. American dream if you are being honest. You can live in the suburbs and send your kids to good schools and college if you want kids. If you really want to leave this profession later and and still feel this way after giving it a chance no one is forcing you to stay and at that point don't let your age stop you if that is how you feel.

 

[heybrother]

"This too shall pass".

 

[HeySister]

I just can't invest more into this career, that was the attitude from the start. Hey maybe it'll get better, better not switch to something else now, every year for 7 years. So what I decide to when I'm in my 40's so the ROI is even lower. I slaved away at this career already what more can it take from me. Before I met my wife and got married (quick timeline less than 6 months) for the first year and a half of residency I did everything I could to save money to get to the point where I could possibly open a practice in the future at some point. I cut down my meals to 2 a day to save on groceries, I don't spend money on snacks or anything that isn't a necessity. I avoided using my health care plan because I'm terrified of a bill from a lab or some copay. I didn't drive to see friends locally, or even family for special occasions like birthdays, weddings etc to save money on gas. I limited my take-out and coffee to once a month. I avoided staying at home during peak electricity hours so I wouldn't spend more on electricity. I've been wearing the same clothes since high school and I'm fortunate the hospital supplies scrubs. I've been wearing the same shoes for 4 years. I avoided haircuts during this years. I don't plan trips/vacations, sorry I did once when the museum was free an hour a way from my residency I planned a day trip. I don't partake in hobbies that cost money anymore. I've been slaving away to save money and I keep getting hounded by attendings and practically everyone that it isn't possible to start a practice. I should just work for one of the attendings who will gladly offer me a 60k salary.

To each his own but you have been way too hard on yourself financially. During school and residency I had hobbies, got haircuts, got new clothes, took trips, never once thought about electricity, ate out and went to bars in a relatively irresponsible manner. It weighed on me sometimes but overall I don't regret any of that. In residency you make enough money to do all those things without guilt. You have to live. I wasn't booking trips to Cabo on spring break (some in my class were), but I definitely spent some loan money on beers with the boys. I'll take 7% compounding interest if it's an IPA.

 

[air bud]

I just can't invest more into this career, that was the attitude from the start. Hey maybe it'll get better, better not switch to something else now, every year for 7 years. So what I decide to when I'm in my 40's so the ROI is even lower. I slaved away at this career already what more can it take from me. Before I met my wife and got married (quick timeline less than 6 months) for the first year and a half of residency I did everything I could to save money to get to the point where I could possibly open a practice in the future at some point. I cut down my meals to 2 a day to save on groceries, I don't spend money on snacks or anything that isn't a necessity. I avoided using my health care plan because I'm terrified of a bill from a lab or some copay. I didn't drive to see friends locally, or even family for special occasions like birthdays, weddings etc to save money on gas. I limited my take-out and coffee to once a month. I avoided staying at home during peak electricity hours so I wouldn't spend more on electricity. I've been wearing the same clothes since high school and I'm fortunate the hospital supplies scrubs. I've been wearing the same shoes for 4 years. I avoided haircuts during this years. I don't plan trips/vacations, sorry I did once when the museum was free an hour a way from my residency I planned a day trip. I don't partake in hobbies that cost money anymore. I've been slaving away to save money and I keep getting hounded by attendings and practically everyone that it isn't possible to start a practice. I should just work for one of the attendings who will gladly offer me a 60k salary.

This isn't normal. There is a reason you are not getting good offers. It's you, not podiatry. Sorry, everyone on here is thinking it, I will say it. Get help, please.

 

[air bud]

Also isn't this the job offer thread? Not online group therapy for bloxeeey

 

[bloxxeeey]

This isn't normal. There is a reason you are not getting good offers. It's you, not podiatry. Sorry, everyone on here is thinking it, I will say it. Get help, please.

I mean no one outside of myself and technically you all know this. In real life I come across as charismatic, good resident, friendly with friends at work. I just try not to do anything with them outside of work for financial reasons, which people have limitations. I just can't stand looking at an attending offering me a 60k job and thinking they're my savior and I tried to do everything possible to scrimp and save so that wouldn't happen.

 

[deleted1020736]

I have been looking for 1 month and have offers 150-190k... Not terrible, with obtainable bonus structure and actual benefits... Maybe don't listen to Taylor Swift before interviews and tone down the self-pity.

 

[wakaflocka88]

My first job I made $75k ish, wasn’t too busy and didn’t work everyday, but $75k sucked for sure. I was still able to contribute to our mortgage payments, took some trips, ate out, had coffee. I kept grinding and eventually worked out. If you keep out hustling everyone around you, I’m confident you will find something well. Again - keep networking hard. Most residents just assume “I’m at a top tier program, I’m for sure getting that dream job. “ this is your chance to crush them.

 

[Hybrocure]

There’s a lot of poor job offers. At the end of the day you’re still making over 100k no matter what offer you take in once production factors in.

Pay student loans on a pay as your earn type plan - it’s only 10% of your income.

You’re still stuck with a decent living. We trash this because given the work these minimum offers should be getting paid twice as much but the reality is - ultimately you’re still making a viable living for 99% of podiatrists out there. It’s nothing to kill yourself over or consider becoming an RN or PA.

You can see 10 patients a day and still make over 100k a year. As bad as it gets it’s really not the end of the world

 

[Boba Foot]

I didn't drive to see friends locally, or even family for special occasions like birthdays, weddings etc to save money on gas. I limited my take-out and coffee to once a month. I avoided staying at home during peak electricity hours so I wouldn't spend more on electricity. I've been wearing the same clothes since high school and I'm fortunate the hospital supplies scrubs. I've been wearing the same shoes for 4 years. I avoided haircuts during this years. I don't plan trips/vacations, sorry I did once when the museum was free an hour a way from my residency I planned a day trip. I don't partake in hobbies that cost money anymore.

This isn't normal, man. You could die tomorrow and none of this **** matters. Yes residency sucks, and yes the job market sucks, but money is just money and you only need money to live. If you're not living, then money is useless. You need to make like McConaghey and start L-I-V-I-N. Even though pod jobs and income is bottom quarter for medical specialties, you still have a higher upside than more than half the country.

Keep looking for jobs, keep saying no to the ****ty ones, eventually you will find a decent one. Take a decent one, live for a few years, and then figure out your next move.

 

[bloxxeeey]

I have been looking for 1 month and have offers 150-190k... Not terrible, with obtainable bonus structure and actual benefits... Maybe don't listen to Taylor Swift before interviews and tone down the self-pity.

Yeah I don't believe that. Our top resident who was probably the best student at our school not just on an academic level is making 50k less than your bottom offer. And this is in a state with good scope that isn't "saturated"

 

[bloxxeeey]

This isn't normal, man. You could die tomorrow and none of this **** matters. Yes residency sucks, and yes the job market sucks, but money is just money and you only need money to live. If you're not living, then money is useless. You need to make like McConaghey and start L-I-V-I-N. Even though pod jobs and income is bottom quarter for medical specialties, you still have a higher upside than more than half the country.

Keep looking for jobs, keep saying no to the ****ty ones, eventually you will find a decent one. Take a decent one, live for a few years, and then figure out your next move.

I am most certainly living. Just because I don't see family/friends doesn't mean I'm not. The one nice thing about podiatry is I found out that people are disposable. Wound care patients pay, until they get the limb cut off, they're disposable at that point. Patients in clinic pay until they don't, they are disposable. I myself am disposable, if I died at the hospital, the biggest concern for my attendings would be who is going to round or write my notes. Now if I get a job, the same problem, "who is going to pay my retirement, do my notes, see my patients while I'm on vacation". We do these haphazard surgeries not because they heal but because we get the patient's to come back! It pays. I have a conscious and don't want to do that, but that doesn't pay the bills and unfortunately, this field already doesn't pay the bills.

 

[FutureDPM323]

I am most certainly living. Just because I don't see family/friends doesn't mean I'm not. The one nice thing about podiatry is I found out that people are disposable. Wound care patients pay, until they get the limb cut off, they're disposable at that point. Patients in clinic pay until they don't, they are disposable. I myself am disposable, if I died at the hospital, the biggest concern for my attendings would be who is going to round or write my notes. Now if I get a job, the same problem, "who is going to pay my retirement, do my notes, see my patients while I'm on vacation". We do these haphazard surgeries not because they heal but because we get the patient's to come back! It pays. I have a conscious and don't want to do that, but that doesn't pay the bills and unfortunately, this field already doesn't pay the bills.

Uhh I am going to be the next person to come on here and say this isn’t normal. You’re not living if you’re not seeing your friends/family, going out, taking trips etc. Life isn’t just your profession which is what you’ve made this out to be from what it sounds like.

Current resident here and yea the job market sucks and i wish everyday i picked something else but i can’t imagine going through the last several years without taking vacations, hanging out with my family and friends, going out with my co residents from time to time etc. And yes it’s understandable that not everyone has the financial means to do that but it sounds like you were a single dude, we weren’t paying student loans back so not really sure why you felt the need to restrict yourself off from everything to the point where all you have left from what it sounds like is podiatry and your wife since per your own posts in the past you’ve stated you lost a lot of friends and don’t have many hobbies anymore. It sounds like all you do is work.

Yea that’s not normal. Don’t get me wrong I have lost a few friends here and there but that was going to be inevitable regardless but I still have an identity outside of podiatry. I travel to see my friends, take trips to areas around my residency on the weekends, splurge on myself whenever i make it though a tough call weekend, go out with my co residents and still partake in many hobbies that i partook in before podiatry.

You need to start living again and not make this profession your life. I apologize if I’m mistaken but everything I’ve stated is just based on info you’ve relayed to us. And I’m not the only one thinking this so….

 

[Weirdy]

I am most certainly living. Just because I don't see family/friends doesn't mean I'm not. The one nice thing about podiatry is I found out that people are disposable. Wound care patients pay, until they get the limb cut off, they're disposable at that point. Patients in clinic pay until they don't, they are disposable. I myself am disposable, if I died at the hospital, the biggest concern for my attendings would be who is going to round or write my notes. Now if I get a job, the same problem, "who is going to pay my retirement, do my notes, see my patients while I'm on vacation". We do these haphazard surgeries not because they heal but because we get the patient's to come back! It pays. I have a conscious and don't want to do that, but that doesn't pay the bills and unfortunately, this field already doesn't pay the bills.

You seriously need some help- even if you think you don't.

And your program should be named and shamed. If they are cultivating that kind of mindset and those kinds of offers, their program needs to be cut.

Yes the job market could be abysmal
Yes there are malignant programs
Yes there are terrible attendings who take advantage of resident labor.

But for every bad apple there are a few good ones.

I also disagree with the way you saved money during residency. I penny pinched where I could but there was so much to do despite loans and regular cost of living overhead.

Saved up for vacations with my SO, ended up having a kid, learned how to cut my own hair so I could cut down on both time and cost, got into even more hobbies and still had enough to eat 3 meals a day and take the odd dinner date out if kid wasn't screaming bloody murder that weekend. I am willing to bet my wife makes much less than you and there are others on this forum with multiple offspring they need to feed and clothe that eat into their income and sanity.

Being a penny pinching miser is not a badge of honor. Maybe your upbringing perpetuated that- not sure, but it is unhealthy. Coming from a toxic family environment that perpetuated the same exact things you are talking about- I didn't even realize how unhealthy it was until SO brought it to my attention. Now that I have a kid watching my every move and learning my habits, I can't afford to come home feeling miserable, grumpy, and dejected.

Am I asking you to put on your rose colored glasses? No.
But you need to rethink how you are approaching things with your current attitude- even if in real life you are probably much more normal than on here- there is inherently something wrong that you need to take a step back and fix.

Do you want to be this 40 yo miser for the rest of your life? Come on man. I've been there. S*** gets tiring. You're better than that.
Take a break from SDN for a while. This site makes whatever you're feeling worse.

 

[deleted285117]

You seriously need some help- even if you think you don't.

And your program should be named and shamed. If they are cultivating that kind of mindset and those kinds of offers, their program needs to be cut.

Yes the job market could be abysmal
Yes there are malignant programs
Yes there are terrible attendings who take advantage of resident labor.

But for every bad apple there are a few good ones.

I also disagree with the way you saved money during residency. I penny pinched where I could but there was so much to do despite loans and regular cost of living overhead.

Saved up for vacations with my SO, ended up having a kid, learned how to cut my own hair so I could cut down on both time and cost, got into even more hobbies and still had enough to eat 3 meals a day and take the odd dinner date out if kid wasn't screaming bloody murder that weekend.

Being a penny pinching miser is not a badge of honor. Maybe your upbringing perpetuated that- not sure, but it is unhealthy. Coming from a toxic family environment that perpetuated the same exact things you are talking about- I didn't even realize how unhealthy it was until SO brought it to my attention. Now that I have a kid watching my every move and learning my habits, I can't afford to come home feeling miserable, grumpy, and dejected.

Am I asking you to put on your rose colored glasses? No.
But you need to rethink how you are approaching things with your current attitude- even if in real life you are probably much more normal than on here- there is inherently something wrong that you need to take a step back and fix.

Do you want to be this 40 yo miser for the rest of your life? Come on man. I've been there. S*** gets tiring.
Take a break from SDN for a while. It only makes it worse.

Ditto. Turn off SDN. I’ll pray for you.

 

[footshazam]

I am most certainly living. Just because I don't see family/friends doesn't mean I'm not. The one nice thing about podiatry is I found out that people are disposable. Wound care patients pay, until they get the limb cut off, they're disposable at that point. Patients in clinic pay until they don't, they are disposable. I myself am disposable, if I died at the hospital, the biggest concern for my attendings would be who is going to round or write my notes. Now if I get a job, the same problem, "who is going to pay my retirement, do my notes, see my patients while I'm on vacation". We do these haphazard surgeries not because they heal but because we get the patient's to come back! It pays. I have a conscious and don't want to do that, but that doesn't pay the bills and unfortunately, this field already doesn't pay the bills.

I feel for you brother. Do what is best for you. If you are ready to leave podiatry, then leave! If that’s what you feel in your heart and spirit then do it. As a 3rd year student, I’m leaving and I’m never looking back. Don’t let these sarcastic people on this thread make you feel bad. Podiatry sucks and it’s complete bull****..end of discussion! I pray that you find peace soon. I could say more but I’ll leave it there.

 

[air bud]

I am most certainly living. Just because I don't see family/friends doesn't mean I'm not. The one nice thing about podiatry is I found out that people are disposable. Wound care patients pay, until they get the limb cut off, they're disposable at that point. Patients in clinic pay until they don't, they are disposable. I myself am disposable, if I died at the hospital, the biggest concern for my attendings would be who is going to round or write my notes. Now if I get a job, the same problem, "who is going to pay my retirement, do my notes, see my patients while I'm on vacation". We do these haphazard surgeries not because they heal but because we get the patient's to come back! It pays. I have a conscious and don't want to do that, but that doesn't pay the bills and unfortunately, this field already doesn't pay the bills.

Podiatry savings hack - ask the patient if you can have their shoe after you do a TMA. Then sit back wait 3 to 4 years and boom another matching shoe.

Or how about you get a brand new pair of diabetic shoes each year. Get one your diabetic patients to help you commit insurance fraud and they give their shoes to you. Bonus points if they don't actually qualify for them.

 

[DYK343]

I am most certainly living. Just because I don't see family/friends doesn't mean I'm not. The one nice thing about podiatry is I found out that people are disposable. Wound care patients pay, until they get the limb cut off, they're disposable at that point. Patients in clinic pay until they don't, they are disposable. I myself am disposable, if I died at the hospital, the biggest concern for my attendings would be who is going to round or write my notes. Now if I get a job, the same problem, "who is going to pay my retirement, do my notes, see my patients while I'm on vacation". We do these haphazard surgeries not because they heal but because we get the patient's to come back! It pays. I have a conscious and don't want to do that, but that doesn't pay the bills and unfortunately, this field already doesn't pay the bill I think you need to step away from the forums for a little bit.

This paragraph is very worrisome. The language is troubling.
You are NOT disposable
I think you need to step back away from the forums for awhile
Maybe talk to your director about your mental health.
Take a little break. You're not sounding well.
You have to aknowledge it before you can get better.
I wish you the best.

 

[Feli]

...I’ll pray for you.

Narrator: The year is 2023.

 

[Feli]

This was the first hospital job I applied for coming out of residency... link at bottom. My valedictorian took it, lasted there a few years, liked it but got enough of the hours. They offered to hire me also a year later after he joined, but i was decided on PP by then.

Good pay, mostly limb salvage... ortho takes most non-DM good stuff. You round early, sizable % of time inpatient work or complicated outpt, take call, work almost like a resident, work a lot with a good vasc group. Good benefits, beautiful area, they pay interview, could do much worse...

Podiatrist​

Novant Health
Winston-Salem, NC

Podiatrist Jobs

 

[bloxxeeey]

Uhh I am going to be the next person to come on here and say this isn’t normal. You’re not living if you’re not seeing your friends/family, going out, taking trips etc. Life isn’t just your profession which is what you’ve made this out to be from what it sounds like.

Current resident here and yea the job market sucks and i wish everyday i picked something else but i can’t imagine going through the last several years without taking vacations, hanging out with my family and friends, going out with my co residents from time to time etc. And yes it’s understandable that not everyone has the financial means to do that but it sounds like you were a single dude, we weren’t paying student loans back so not really sure why you felt the need to restrict yourself off from everything to the point where all you have left from what it sounds like is podiatry and your wife since per your own posts in the past you’ve stated you lost a lot of friends and don’t have many hobbies anymore. It sounds like all you do is work.

Yea that’s not normal. Don’t get me wrong I have lost a few friends here and there but that was going to be inevitable regardless but I still have an identity outside of podiatry. I travel to see my friends, take trips to areas around my residency on the weekends, splurge on myself whenever i make it though a tough call weekend, go out with my co residents and still partake in many hobbies that i partook in before podiatry.

You need to start living again and not make this profession your life. I apologize if I’m mistaken but everything I’ve stated is just based on info you’ve relayed to us. And I’m not the only one thinking this so….

How do you guys afford to and have time to have an identity outside of podiatry? I took last evening off after 10 PM to relax and stop studying for ABFAS and I feel like that set me back big time.

 

[deleted285117]

How do you guys afford to and have time to have an identity outside of podiatry? I took last evening off after 10 PM to relax and stop studying for ABFAS and I feel like that set me back big time.

Screw podiatry. It’s my job, not my life. After 10pm in residency i’da been watching Netflix with wifey eating some ice cream.

… And screw ABFAS.

 

[bloxxeeey]

Screw podiatry. It’s my job, not my life. After 10pm in residency i’da been watching Netflix with wifey eating some ice cream.

… And screw ABFAS.

I wish man, I can't waste that time watching TV. The pass rates are abysmal so everything counts. I'm glad I got to rest after but I didn't need to relax for two hours, a solid 15 suffices to get you refocused and back to work. Also I don't know what to even start on Netflix because that would require a time commitment that I just can't give right now!

 

[HeySister]

How do you guys afford to and have time to have an identity outside of podiatry? I took last evening off after 10 PM to relax and stop studying for ABFAS and I feel like that set me back big time.

ABFAS does not matter that much. You should do it but if you fail you have plenty of chances. You can keep trying. You can't keep trying your 20s though. I would study an hour a day for a few weeks up to the test. That's it, and mainly to reorient yourself to podiatry junk that pops up in tests but not real life.

ABFAS is imperfect but it's what we have. This profession is imperfect and going through some serious self-inflicted issues right now, but it's what you have. Don't make the rest of your life a mess over this. This is a job that if you genuinely give a good effort, learn how to talk to people, and stay ethical, you usually do fine. It may take some time and in a lot of ways it is not fair, but the market is flooded with a skill set far beyond its needs. It's still a skill set though. Use it and see what happens. I echo what everyone else says. I would start exercising. Take a trip. Go out to eat. Spend time with your partner. Find something fun. Doing those things will probably make it more than less likely you pass ABFAS. And if you don't, you will at some point.

 

[FutureDPM323]

How do you guys afford to and have time to have an identity outside of podiatry? I took last evening off after 10 PM to relax and stop studying for ABFAS and I feel like that set me back big time.

Because i made the decision a long time ago that podiatry was not going to be my life. I obviously do everything I can to try and be successful but i won’t sacrifice my mental health, sanity, life etc for it. It’s just not worth it.

 

[deleted285117]

I wish man, I can't waste that time watching TV. The pass rates are abysmal so everything counts. I'm glad I got to rest after but I didn't need to relax for two hours, a solid 15 suffices to get you refocused and back to work. Also I don't know what to even start on Netflix because that would require a time commitment that I just can't give right now!

IMO Your priorities are back-asswards.

As for Netflix, start with The Night Agent 😎

 

[air bud]

IMO Your priorities are back-asswards.

As for Netflix, start with The Night Agent 😎

If you are of a certain age there is 3 part history behind the scenes of American Gladiators. Team Nitro.

 

[bloxxeeey]

ABFAS does not matter that much. You should do it but if you fail you have plenty of chances. You can keep trying. You can't keep trying your 20s though. I would study an hour a day for a few weeks up to the test. That's it, and mainly to reorient yourself to podiatry junk that pops up in tests but not real life.

ABFAS is imperfect but it's what we have. This profession is imperfect and going through some serious self-inflicted issues right now, but it's what you have. Don't make the rest of your life a mess over this. This is a job that if you genuinely give a good effort, learn how to talk to people, and stay ethical, you usually do fine. It may take some time and in a lot of ways it is not fair, but the market is flooded with a skill set far beyond its needs. It's still a skill set though. Use it and see what happens. I echo what everyone else says. I would start exercising. Take a trip. Go out to eat. Spend time with your partner. Find something fun. Doing those things will probably make it more than less likely you pass ABFAS. And if you don't, you will at some point.

20's are nearly gone my friend, I can't go back and this market is already rough enough, without ABFAS it's even harder. If you're not putting in 110% there's almost no chance you're going to make a decent wage.

 

[Treaty of Dorsi]

Your residency must have done a number on you! What happened to this happy camper haha

 

[Podstar]

Well the job search and all the interviews finally paid off. Interviewed and got an offer from a smaller hospital and clinic about 45 minutes from most of my family. 275k base pay with RVU bonus, 30k loan repayment per year, residency stipend until I finish, sign on bonus and relocation, full benefits with 401k match. Full scope, however it is not a larger metro area so I doubt I will be as busy surgically as someone with a larger draw but there is no foot and ankle ortho outside an hour away. The only downside is I do have a nursing home obligation but only one day every quarter so I can live with that for the pay and being by family.

 

[air bud]

Well the job search and all the interviews finally paid off. Interviewed and got an offer from a smaller hospital and clinic about 45 minutes from most of my family. 275k base pay with RVU bonus, 30k loan repayment per year, residency stipend until I finish, sign on bonus and relocation, full benefits with 401k match. Full scope, however it is not a larger metro area so I doubt I will be as busy surgically as someone with a larger draw but there is no foot and ankle ortho outside an hour away. The only downside is I do have a nursing home obligation but only one day every quarter so I can live with that for the pay and being by family.

Awesome congrats

One thing to better understand and pay attention to is the 30k loan payback. Are they paying as bonus then taxing you on it? That's how mine was. So came out to 15k a year paid back to me when I paid 20k towards loans.

 

[DYK343]

Bloxxeeey
You cant really study for ABFAS didactics. Its more concepts than fact memorize and dump. Anything you study leading up to it is not likely on the exam. What you can study for is the dumb computer simulator. That you have to be prepared for.

ABFAS tests broad application knowledge. Not facts. Its much different than Part 1/2/3 APMLE boards we take as students which is fact based

 

[Hybrocure]

20's are nearly gone my friend, I can't go back and this market is already rough enough, without ABFAS it's even harder. If you're not putting in 110% there's almost no chance you're going to make a decent wage.

There are hundreds if not over a thousand of podiatrists without ABFAS that are doing great. Don’t fall for the trap. Post graduation hospitals just want to know you’re planning to eventually become board cert. Residency case logs will get you on staff at hospitals. You have years until you actually need to have it and even then it can be ABPM at many places.

I got on staff at multiple hospitals having failed ABFAS board qual at the time after residency. I eventually passed it. I was a good resident. Great case logs. I just simply didn’t take the test seriously enough. It’s not worth beating yourself up over. Most people get their post residency job before they even take the exam.