Job Market

[wakaflocka88]

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Wow. Absolutely unacceptable and despicable. There's podiatry attending positions hiring in Norcal offering less than 155K right now.

How do you tag people on here lol. The deans, the APMA stats guy and others, whoever else you all know of in leadership on SDN, someone should tag them all. All the students and pre-pods. This is not okay.

That health organization alone already has 122 DPM's. Factoring in all the Kaisers, all the private practices, MSG's and PE-owned groups in the northern half of CA, how many hundreds of pods are there in just one-half of the state? lol
I get that it's a big state with a huge population (and they owns lots of clinics and hospitals), but man, seeing 122 DPM's at just one company that only covers half the state is mind boggling.

NorCal and SoCal equally beyond saturated. Most on that website actually are just community affiliates with a hospital campus and not actually employed by them. You be shocked at the salary offers being thrown at 2026 grads. 80-90k in large metro cities. They know it’s blood bath and will capitalize on this.

 

[HalluxSlicer]

My residency program is evenly split between hospital-employed podiatrists and private practice podiatrists who operate at CAH —basically a controlled experiment in career outcomes.
The hospital-employed podiatrists seem to have cracked the code. Some do big rearfoot and ankle recon, others stick to forefoot surgery, and a few heroically block OR time for nail avulsions and flexor tenotomies. Inpatient nail or callus consults? “Sounds outpatient.” Their blood pressure is normal. Their marriages are intact. Life is good.

Then there’s private practice, where time moves slower and hope gradually evaporates.

These PP podiatrists live on the floors: clipping toenails, seeing low-acuity inpatients daily, writing progress notes whose sole purpose is to justify another CPT code, performing dressing changes that nurses could do with their eyes closed, and waiting—always waiting—for late add-on cases that may or may not materialize. Every consult is accepted immediately, with a smile so wide it could be used in a malpractice defense exhibit. In front of hospital staff, they’re cheerful and accommodating. To residents, though, the mask slips. The vibe is pure existential dread—equal parts burnout, regret, and quiet anger. It’s the unmistakable look of someone who realizes they are practicing medicine, but somehow not medicine.

As residents, we watch this and ask ourselves which attending we’ll become after graduation. The relaxed hospital-employed podiatrist with boundaries and hobbies—or the private practice grinder, surviving on billing, caffeine, and denial. Deep down, we already know the answer—and that’s the real punchline.

 

[Carbon13]

My residency program is evenly split between hospital-employed podiatrists and private practice podiatrists who operate at CAH —basically a controlled experiment in career outcomes.
The hospital-employed podiatrists seem to have cracked the code. Some do big rearfoot and ankle recon, others stick to forefoot surgery, and a few heroically block OR time for nail avulsions and flexor tenotomies. Inpatient nail or callus consults? “Sounds outpatient.” Their blood pressure is normal. Their marriages are intact. Life is good.

Then there’s private practice, where time moves slower and hope gradually evaporates.

These PP podiatrists live on the floors: clipping toenails, seeing low-acuity inpatients daily, writing progress notes whose sole purpose is to justify another CPT code, performing dressing changes that nurses could do with their eyes closed, and waiting—always waiting—for late add-on cases that may or may not materialize. Every consult is accepted immediately, with a smile so wide it could be used in a malpractice defense exhibit. In front of hospital staff, they’re cheerful and accommodating. To residents, though, the mask slips. The vibe is pure existential dread—equal parts burnout, regret, and quiet anger. It’s the unmistakable look of someone who realizes they are practicing medicine, but somehow not medicine.

As residents, we watch this and ask ourselves which attending we’ll become after graduation. The relaxed hospital-employed podiatrist with boundaries and hobbies—or the private practice grinder, surviving on billing, caffeine, and denial. Deep down, we already know the answer—and that’s the real punchline.

Every area is different I suppose. Overall, hospital gigs seem to be looked upon more favorable on this site.
However, I've been solo PP for about 7yrs now. My OR schedule is typically more booked (legit cases) than the hospital employed guys.
I have never taken call or inpatient consults. I got my chiropody skillz at a big name program and swore I would never work at a hospital again.
I now find myself less enthused by rear foot cases due to lack of ROI and focusing on soccer mom bunions. But yes, the whole RVU thing does seem more promising in the face of declining CPT's $. 😒

Either way, I feel that young podiatrists need to be planning an exit strategy very early in career with the way things are going.

 

[footpainhealer]

My residency program is evenly split between hospital-employed podiatrists and private practice podiatrists who operate at CAH —basically a controlled experiment in career outcomes.
The hospital-employed podiatrists seem to have cracked the code. Some do big rearfoot and ankle recon, others stick to forefoot surgery, and a few heroically block OR time for nail avulsions and flexor tenotomies. Inpatient nail or callus consults? “Sounds outpatient.” Their blood pressure is normal. Their marriages are intact. Life is good.

Then there’s private practice, where time moves slower and hope gradually evaporates.

These PP podiatrists live on the floors: clipping toenails, seeing low-acuity inpatients daily, writing progress notes whose sole purpose is to justify another CPT code, performing dressing changes that nurses could do with their eyes closed, and waiting—always waiting—for late add-on cases that may or may not materialize. Every consult is accepted immediately, with a smile so wide it could be used in a malpractice defense exhibit. In front of hospital staff, they’re cheerful and accommodating. To residents, though, the mask slips. The vibe is pure existential dread—equal parts burnout, regret, and quiet anger. It’s the unmistakable look of someone who realizes they are practicing medicine, but somehow not medicine.

As residents, we watch this and ask ourselves which attending we’ll become after graduation. The relaxed hospital-employed podiatrist with boundaries and hobbies—or the private practice grinder, surviving on billing, caffeine, and denial. Deep down, we already know the answer—and that’s the real punchline.

The private practice guys at my program, associates included, are pretty happy. Some took call, some practices chose not too at all. All did big rearfoot/ankle recon. Other than the associates, they all owned shares in the ASC's around town, so most cases were taken there. No delays or bumping ever for them. If the ones that were on call did do a case at the hospital for an infection, they would just book it at 4-5 pm, or schedule it within the next few days at a time convenient for them. Never got bumped at that particular hospital. Your attendings seem to be stressing themselves out for no reason lol. But yes, they have to round if they want to get paid.
Also, CAH pay really really well according to all the attendings on here, so they are probably making bank covering those hospitals. More than your hospital-employed guys I would imagine. The numbers I have been told that CAH pays per day are high AF cause they are desperate to get someone to see their patients, and they get paid extra from the government, so they can afford to throw money at docs.

The hospital ones within our program is similar to I assume all other hospital employed pods. They did everything, including all trauma. Sometimes their cases got bumped due to an actual Gen Surg/ortho emergent case, but not routinely. The hospital OR for the main Level-1 center was slow AF though and it doesn't matter when something was scheduled, it was going 0.5-4 hours late regardless lol. Other hospital was lower acuity, and basically never delayed.

The private guys made more than my in-house hospital attendings. Granted, only 2 out of 10 core outside attendings were associates. The rest were partners/owners.

 

[Adam Smasher]

These PP podiatrists live on the floors: clipping toenails, seeing low-acuity inpatients daily, writing progress notes whose sole purpose is to justify another CPT code, performing dressing changes that nurses could do with their eyes closed, and waiting—always waiting—for late add-on cases that may or may not materialize. Every consult is accepted immediately, with a smile so wide it could be used in a malpractice defense exhibit. In front of hospital staff, they’re cheerful and accommodating. To residents, though, the mask slips. The vibe is pure existential dread—equal parts burnout, regret, and quiet anger. It’s the unmistakable look of someone who realizes they are practicing medicine, but somehow not medicine.

Your post is hilarious, but this paragraph misses the mark. I'm a PP owner, and I'm getting to be more and more passive aggressive about inpatient work. I have definitely generated some good income from being on call in the past, but the money doesn't justify the time commitment in most cases. I would NEVER go out of my way to rewrap a bandage or clip toenails in the hospital.

If you get into the world of PP podiatry, you'll see your office work drives your income. Inpatient can supplement this if your office isn't busy but that's not a sustainable business model long term.

How are so many podiatrists on staff at a CAH? Actually nevermind, I think I know...

 

[Weirdy]

I have definitely generated some good income from being on call in the past, but the money doesn't justify the time commitment in most cases.

 

[Homo sapien]

Your post is hilarious, but this paragraph misses the mark. I'm a PP owner, and I'm getting to be more and more passive aggressive about inpatient work. I have definitely generated some good income from being on call in the past, but the money doesn't justify the time commitment in most cases. I would NEVER go out of my way to rewrap a bandage or clip toenails in the hospital.

If you get into the world of PP podiatry, you'll see your office work drives your income. Inpatient can supplement this if your office isn't busy but that's not a sustainable business model long term.

How are so many podiatrists on staff at a CAH? Actually nevermind, I think I know...

What's a CAH

 

[Weirdy]

Your post is hilarious, but this paragraph misses the mark. I'm a PP owner, and I'm getting to be more and more passive aggressive about inpatient work. I have definitely generated some good income from being on call in the past, but the money doesn't justify the time commitment in most cases. I would NEVER go out of my way to rewrap a bandage or clip toenails in the hospital.

If you get into the world of PP podiatry, you'll see your office work drives your income. Inpatient can supplement this if your office isn't busy but that's not a sustainable business model long term.

How are so many podiatrists on staff at a CAH? Actually nevermind, I think I know...

3 hospitals within 15min of me not including some rehab places etc.
All 3 do not have hospital employed DPMs
All 3 do not pay podiatrists for call

Current rehab hospitals already have outside pods who come in and do some work once a week or so- I got told politely to f*&^ off as the new guy in town by 2 of the rehab places.

Even the local podiatry groups have stopped associating with any of the hospitals here.
Not worth the time and the hospitals don't care.

From a private practice standpoint.

 

[Adam Smasher]

What's a CAH

Critical access hospital, a place that has a hard time recruiting doctors to render care yet somehow in halluxslicer's case there are plural number of DPMs

 

[Adam Smasher]

View attachment 413608

So the gamble is that if you can do the amputation and get it to heal cleanly, you then order diabetic shoes WITH an amputation filler. L5000 reimburses better than the surgery most of the time, and the pt gets a new one every year. 🦞

 

[air bud]

Critical access hospital, a place that has a hard time recruiting doctors to render care yet somehow in halluxslicer's case there are plural number of DPMs

I don't know We got to be talking about something else when we say critical access hospitals it's 30ish mi from the nearest hospital and they can't have more than 25 inpatient beds.... I spent most of my careers in these hospitals and there are no residency programs where these hospitals exist because they are in BFE.... Trust me so CAH means.....cat ambulatory hospital?

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

3 hospitals within 15min of me not including some rehab places etc.
All 3 do not have hospital employed DPMs
All 3 do not pay podiatrists for call

Current rehab hospitals already have outside pods who come in and do some work once a week or so- I got told politely to f*&^ off as the new guy in town by 2 of the rehab places.

Even the local podiatry groups have stopped associating with any of the hospitals here.
Not worth the time and the hospitals don't care.

From a private practice standpoint.

Sounds like you are in a market that is saturated with podiatry.

Sounds like you are in a state which does not have very much respect for podiatry. Probably a large anti-podiatry ortho presence.

Otherwise there would be more hospital employed DPMs. This is definitely state specific.

 

[Mia McBhul]

just saw my W2 for 2025. made a whopping $146K...so much for that "prestigious" RRA certification lol

 

[Adam Smasher]

just saw my W2 for 2025. made a whopping $146K...so much for that "prestigious" RRA certification lol

make sure you do the marit health survey, Dr Dupre needs this datapoint

 

[DarkPathMedicine]

just saw my W2 for 2025. made a whopping $146K...so much for that "prestigious" RRA certification lol

And that's gross!

 

[heybrother]

just saw my W2 for 2025. made a whopping $146K...so much for that "prestigious" RRA certification lol

So what's your story?

Here's the ultimate surgery joke - the facility gets all the money.

 

[dtrack22]

These PP podiatrists live on the floors: clipping toenails

No way people are still doing inpatient routine foot care in 2025/2026. Maybe @Dean’s Chat can add this to a Midwestern recruitment presentation.

Every area is different I suppose. Overall, hospital gigs seem to be looked upon more favorable on this site.
However, I've been solo PP for about 7yrs now. My OR schedule is typically more booked (legit cases) than the hospital employed guys.

Hospital jobs are probably a little more consistent in terms of work/pay. Higher income floor is probably the biggest reason they get spoken of more favorably. Not to mention, many of us either personally or know somebody whose sole experience with PP was an associate making sub-PA wages while doing low acuity scut work for another DPM.

Even with the financials getting squeezed by 3rd party payers with ever increasing overhead, nothing wrong with PP assuming you are your own boss.

Other than the associates, they all owned shares in the ASC's around town

Unfortunately, much like jobs in orthopedic clinics, shares in imaging centers, MSO’s, etc. These opportunities are becoming more rare and/or less profitable than the juice that many of our attending were able to squeeze from them. It’s like that old podiatrist who was solo private practice with minimal overhead and $1500 Austin reimbursements telling you how wonderful private practice is because they make a million dollars per year. Something you and I can’t do without abusing skin subs and diabetic DME

 

[footpainhealer]

Sounds like you are in a market that is saturated with podiatry.

Sounds like you are in a state which does not have very much respect for podiatry. Probably a large anti-podiatry ortho presence.

Otherwise there would be more hospital employed DPMs. This is definitely state specific.

Is this not the norm?

I think only 3 of the 8 externship sites I went to when I was a student had actual hospital-employed pods. The rest were just covered by the director and his/her associates from their clinic in town.

You made me curious, so I looked up a few hospitals in the region I grew up in, and around the school I went to just to see. Zero hospital employed pods between 5 hospitals in 2 different states that I just checked. Even Ortho at my childhood hospital in a top-5 metro are contracted, and don't work for the hospital. Only the HMO hospitals have fully employed MD/DO/DPM around here as far as I can tell.

I know it's just anecdotal, but I feel like his/her experience is more the norm than the opposite. Maybe it's a popular vs unpopular state thing like you allude to. The only friends I know that work for a hospital are in states people outside the US have never even heard of. Shoot, some people in the US probably don't even know where these states are on a map hahah.

 

[dtrack22]

I think only 3 of the 8 externship sites I went to when I was a student had actual hospital-employed pods. The rest were just covered by the director and his/her associates from their clinic in town.

You went to a lot of crappy programs

The only friends I know that work for a hospital are in states people outside the US have never even heard of.

Yeah nobody has ever heard of California or Texas or Florida or Pennsylvania or Ohio or Louisiana or Colorado or…

 

[Weirdy]

I know it's just anecdotal, but I feel like his/her experience is more the norm than the opposite. Maybe it's a popular vs unpopular state thing like you allude to. The only friends I know that work for a hospital are in states people outside the US have never even heard of. Shoot, some people in the US probably don't even know where these states are on a map hahah.

Not the norm.
Have good classmates who did very good residencies and the ones I still keep in contact- 3 are hospital employed.

 

[Bluecollarmed]

Majority of the pods at the program I went to were hospital employed by 1 of the 2 major systems in the city or were in an ortho group. There were private practice pods but they weren't very busy surgically. Midwest. I stayed in the Midwest at a CAH. My hospital employs multiple orthos, not contracted, employed, as well as general surgery.

 

[Sybly]

NorCal and SoCal equally beyond saturated. Most on that website actually are just community affiliates with a hospital campus and not actually employed by them. You be shocked at the salary offers being thrown at 2026 grads. 80-90k in large metro cities. They know it’s blood bath and will capitalize on this.

It’s podiatry. The APMA and schools don’t care.

 

[Sybly]

NorCal and SoCal equally beyond saturated. Most on that website actually are just community affiliates with a hospital campus and not actually employed by them. You be shocked at the salary offers being thrown at 2026 grads. 80-90k in large metro cities. They know it’s blood bath and will capitalize on this.

It’s podiatry , schools and Apma don’t care

 

[Sole Badguy]

Anybody willing to take call is either getting paid good money and/or has free labor to do it (residents). Another potential benefit of hospital employment 😛

Also, if you have RRA and are making <200k - wtf, get out and leverage that cert elsewhere. Life's too short to not be getting what you're worth

 

[Mia McBhul]

Also, if you have RRA and are making <200k - wtf, get out and leverage that cert elsewhere. Life's too short to not be getting what you're worth

job market out there is tough. unless I go to someplace like South Dakota my options are limited

 

[air bud]

job market out there is tough. unless I go to someplace like South Dakota my options are limited

If you have RRA, there's more options than you would think but you still got to put in the work to find it. I'm not exactly in South Dakota and I found a posted website job a year ago and got it with RRA and no ties to the area.

 

[Feli]

job market out there is tough. unless I go to someplace like South Dakota my options are limited

Yeah, just shows you how saturated "foot and ankle surgeon" is now. Thank the new schools.

If you really want to laugh, try talking to MDs about it sometime... or nurses.
Tell them VA and IHS podiatry jobs are competitive, highly applied to. Locums is hard to find.
Tell them your RVU rates, salary offers, benefits. That most MSGs and rural hospitals and even pod groups won't return your call.

They will just give you one of these:

 

[dtrack22]

Tell them VA and IHS podiatry jobs are competitive, highly applied to. Locums is hard to find.

Not to mention a large number of the “Locums” positions listed for podiatrists are IHS jobs. Which essentially go to the lowest bidder. For example, you work with a staffing company and tell them you won’t work for less than $150 per hour. Well they can submit that to the IHS facility but someone will take it for $80-100 per hour. Even if you are more qualified, you aren’t getting that contract. So unless you are willing to sacrifice pay, you can’t get a significant number of the posted Locums positions. Compare that to physician locums where you can set an unreasonable price for your services and still find someone who will pay it without much difficulty.

I’m not even sure Locums opportunities will increase drastically in the future. They should in theory, more hospital employed positions means more opportunities for Locums providers to maintain a service line during times of turnover. However, when a hospital can lose a DPM and replace them relatively easily within a matter of months (as opposed to years in the case of some physician specialties) then I’m not sure they really need Locums coverage in many instances. If hospitalist/inpatient podiatrists ever become a popular thing in large facilities, then that’s probably where “career Locums” becomes a realistic option for some grads.

 

[Homo sapien]

Not to mention a large number of the “Locums” positions listed for podiatrists are IHS jobs. Which essentially go to the lowest bidder. For example, you work with a staffing company and tell them you won’t work for less than $150 per hour. Well they can submit that to the IHS facility but someone will take it for $80-100 per hour. Even if you are more qualified, you aren’t getting that contract. So unless you are willing to sacrifice pay, you can’t get a significant number of the posted Locums positions. Compare that to physician locums where you can set an unreasonable price for your services and still find someone who will pay it without much difficulty.

I’m not even sure Locums opportunities will increase drastically in the future. They should in theory, more hospital employed positions means more opportunities for Locums providers to maintain a service line during times of turnover. However, when a hospital can lose a DPM and replace them relatively easily within a matter of months (as opposed to years in the case of some physician specialties) then I’m not sure they really need Locums coverage in many instances. If hospitalist/inpatient podiatrists ever become a popular thing in large facilities, then that’s probably where “career Locums” becomes a realistic option for some grads.

So podiatry is just ****ed. MD/DO can get quality jobs without much fanfare while we discuss maybe future nursing homes Locums

 

[air bud]

So podiatry is just ****ed. MD/DO can get quality jobs without much fanfare while we discuss maybe future nursing homes Locums

Yes. Yes

 

[footpainhealer]

So podiatry is just ****ed. MD/DO can get quality jobs without much fanfare while we discuss maybe future nursing homes Locums

Forget MD/DO. MD/DO vs DPM isn't even a comparison metric anymore.

The other, non-doctorate fields of healthcare have caught up-to or surpassed podiatry incomes (the floor, and even the ceilings for some fields like CV-perfusionists and CRNA).

That's not even factoring in cost of education and lost years of 6-figure incomes. A NP/PA can be making ~120-200K while you just started 3rd year of pod school and still have 5-6 more years to go depending on fellowship or not lmao.

That podiatry PA job ad posted above was higher than the 146K someone just said they made in 2025. And their posts allude to being an attending for at least a couple of years or more. And they feel trapped cause there's no other job options in their area.

Here's what just a few PA jobs in 2 different states are offering. There's hundreds more like these in every area of the country.

 

[Stormblest]

It’s basically hospital employ or bust at least starting out if you want anything above 200k.

 

[podiatryresident]

just saw my W2 for 2025. made a whopping $146K...so much for that "prestigious" RRA certification lol

Where do you practice ? It's difficult to believe your salary with the certifications and exp. 146k is full year or part time ? Upperline is paying more than that number.
Thanks

 

[wakaflocka88]

Where do you practice ? It's difficult to believe your salary with the certifications and exp. 146k is full year or part time ? Upperline is paying more than that number.
Thanks

You’re in for a real world shocker. Wait till you see 75-90k offers and barely hitting 100k if lucky.

 

[Homo sapien]

You’re in for a real world shocker. Wait till you see 75-90k offers and barely hitting 100k if lucky.

You said it before me

Roughly 25% hit those big numbers [doctor money]. They had the connections or are owners farming associates or skin graft/dme craziness. The rest of us are running in circles and some eventually start their own or just circle forever

 

[HalluxSlicer]

I love talking to motivated podiatry students and delusional podiatry residents who think we're gonna be making big ol attending salary they heard about.
Me: "how old is the attending you know or spoke of who says they make >250K in a hospital or PP setting"
Them: "Idk, probably mid 40s or older"
Me: "Have you met a recent grad or young attendings making that much?"
Them: "No, not really"
Me: "Okay, let me know when you find a young attending making that much and are comfortable/satisfied with that salary"
Them "..."

Im sure there are young attendings / recent grads who maybe making that $$$ as I know a few but they often are in a desolate rural land CAH or PP on an undesirable island somewhere. Majority of the students who shadowed podiatrists before starting school may have shadowed ones who are successful or put in their time to get that stage (mustache lobster pods included)

 

[dtrack22]

So podiatry is just ****ed. MD/DO can get quality jobs without much fanfare while we discuss maybe future nursing homes Locums

You completely misinterpreted what I said about future Locums possibilities, but I don’t disagree that an increasing number of DPM grads will be fudged moving forward. Assuming we continue to graduate nearly 600 students every year.

For the record, I was referring to inpatient Podiatry jobs in large hospitals where you essentially work a shift covering inpatient consults and any necessary inpatient surgeries. It would need to be a large hospital (500+ beds probably) or a health network that has multiple facilities you would cover in a large metro. 7a-5p shifts 5 days per week and a $400k salary, for example. Then again, saturation and having plenty of local podiatrists you don’t have to pay to do this work means I’m not even convinced these types of jobs will ever take off. Because they won’t be necessary. This type of job would be perfect for someone who wanted to essentially make a career out of Locums. Probably too many podiatrists desperate enough to do inpatient work for free in order for it to become reality. A guy can dream.

 

[Dermato Fight Club]

just saw my W2 for 2025. made a whopping $146K...so much for that "prestigious" RRA certification lol

Did you max out 401k? Health insurance? HSA? Or is that gross?

I can't imagine trying to live off that with 100's of thousands of student loans to pay off. I'm really not sure why we are doing what we are doing at this point.

It is a long time coming for the profession and it will only get drastically worse over the next decade without a radical change in capping attendance (like 75%).

It's a simple supply/demand issue. We've made everyone a surgeon and so now no one is a surgeon. The amount of demand for foot and ankle surgery has not increased to what we've supplied foot and ankle surgeons over the past 20 years. We should have gone to the dental model 20 years ago. That way instead of having 30 pods, with highly variable training, operating on my community doing 2-10 cases/month, we could have 3-5 pods with state of the art training doing 20+ cases/month. Everyone wins in that scenario, especially the public.

I can only imagine what the insurance panels are going to start doing to podiatry contracts over the next 10-20 years. If I'm CEO of any insurance company, I'd continue to decrease reimbursements. There are so many of us, someone will take it.

I would absolutely have a much different take on my job/profession and would recommend it, if I went in to a full schedule, saw MSK pathology, operated once a week, etc. I was doing better about a decade ago before 17 other new graduates came to the area. Now my schedule gets less and less over time and my collections are slowly decreasing on a yearly basis. Easiest way to make this happen is move to a less saturated area which are few and far between at this point and I am not open to move as I am close to family.

I'm lucky though, my wife works for a corporation where it's customary to be promoted, get cost of living increases, bonuses etc. As a PP owner my employees also expect those customs so while I'm getting less and less off the top, I'm also paying out more.

I've had the absolute red carpet treatment in the profession as I graduated from residency about 15 years ago with probably top 25% training at the time, inherited a practice, had minimal to no student loans, and a wife that probably makes more than most pods. I've been super lucky and have done well. I'm likely going to retire by 50 or at least be heavily coasting.

However, with that said, If I didn't have all that help, yeah I'd be screwed. I have three tweens and would no way recommend them go into this field. If they went against that and went into it anyway, I guess my recommendation would be to not even take over my practice at this point and try to get a hospital job anywhere they can. I've got them brainwashed into becoming a CRNA though.

 

[air bud]

Sorry everybody let's just listen to positive stories from @Dean’s Chat

 

[Hybrocure]

Did you max out 401k? Health insurance? HSA? Or is that gross?

I can't imagine trying to live off that with 100's of thousands of student loans to pay off. I'm really not sure why we are doing what we are doing at this point.

It is a long time coming for the profession and it will only get drastically worse over the next decade without a radical change in capping attendance (like 75%).

It's a simple supply/demand issue. We've made everyone a surgeon and so now no one is a surgeon. The amount of demand for foot and ankle surgery has not increased to what we've supplied foot and ankle surgeons over the past 20 years. We should have gone to the dental model 20 years ago. That way instead of having 30 pods, with highly variable training, operating on my community doing 2-10 cases/month, we could have 3-5 pods with state of the art training doing 20+ cases/month. Everyone wins in that scenario, especially the public.

I can only imagine what the insurance panels are going to start doing to podiatry contracts over the next 10-20 years. If I'm CEO of any insurance company, I'd continue to decrease reimbursements. There are so many of us, someone will take it.

I would absolutely have a much different take on my job/profession and would recommend it, if I went in to a full schedule, saw MSK pathology, operated once a week, etc. I was doing better about a decade ago before 17 other new graduates came to the area. Now my schedule gets less and less over time and my collections are slowly decreasing on a yearly basis. Easiest way to make this happen is move to a less saturated area which are few and far between at this point and I am not open to move as I am close to family.

I'm lucky though, my wife works for a corporation where it's customary to be promoted, get cost of living increases, bonuses etc. As a PP owner my employees also expect those customs so while I'm getting less and less off the top, I'm also paying out more.

I've had the absolute red carpet treatment in the profession as I graduated from residency about 15 years ago with probably top 25% training at the time, inherited a practice, had minimal to no student loans, and a wife that probably makes more than most pods. I've been super lucky and have done well. I'm likely going to retire by 50 or at least be heavily coasting.

However, with that said, If I didn't have all that help, yeah I'd be screwed. I have three tweens and would no way recommend them go into this field. If they went against that and went into it anyway, I guess my recommendation would be to not even take over my practice at this point and try to get a hospital job anywhere they can. I've got them brainwashed into becoming a CRNA though.

Scrolled past the wall of text but what if I told you this was the income of half of new grads give or take 2-3 years out even?

Bro said the quiet part out loud and god bless him for being that honest. There a ton of pods out here making sub 150.

None have the balls to really admit it especially here

 

[msion]

Our job market resembles that of the lawyers instead of other health professions. Maybe... maybe optometry to some extent as they also have a saturation problem.

The lawyers are known to have a bimodal salary distribution. A bunch of people making sub $100k and a bunch making over $200k with nothing in between. People complain about America producing too many lawyers, yet there is a shortage for good lawyers and legal aid lawyers.

The typical mustache PP pod is just like a personal injury "ambulance chaser" lawyer. Will see everything and will take everything. Willing to work the long hours, and probably dealing with some personal health/family issues at the same time. Heck you may even see them on the billboards as well.

The hospital employed pod is like a lawyer practicing at Big Law. Kinda detached from the sentiment of the profession as a whole. Doing complex and high acuity stuff. Well compensated, but also need to work hard to crank up the RVUs vs. billable hours. Competition is fierce, and every year a new wave of grads will be eyeing up these same positions. But if made partner or has equity, then the job security is there.

The pods working at nursing homes are like the legal aid lawyers. Bar is low but the work takes a toll. Good gap filler work for many, but some may just give up and do this forever.

Then you got the average PP pods who are everywhere and some are generalists seeing all types of pathologies, and some may find a niche. With years many will have successful practices. But it just takes time. Just like a neighborhood lawyer starting out to take everything that walks into the door, but over the years may just specialize in family law, employment law or immigration law.

So yeah both professions are quite similar: high debt, inconsistent ROI, no uniform scope (50 states, 50 jurisdictions), people hate each other, the old vs. the young, public perception is mixed and 2026 is gonna be a even tougher year for new grads.

 

[Dean’s Chat]

Sorry everybody let's just listen to positive stories from @Dean’s Chat

Come on Dean’s Chat. Let’s talk. Love to hear your story!

 

[air bud]

Come on Dean’s Chat. Let’s talk. Love to hear your story!

Oh I have got stories....Sorry, your positive vibes are not going to out weigh the reality of the profession, the false hope being sold. I have gotten lucky/put in the work. I am not going to be part of brainwashing current/future students into a perceived reality that will not exist for them.

 

[Mia McBhul]

Where do you practice ? It's difficult to believe your salary with the certifications and exp. 146k is full year or part time ? Upperline is paying more than that number.
Thanks

I'm in a relatively suburban area, hour away from a major city, but super saturated. 5 other podiatry offices in a 2 mile radius.

Upperline actually offers better compensation than most podiatry private practices here, the current PGY3 residents at the two residencies I work with are signing offers for base salaries from 75-90K...

Can't keep continuing like this. Look like circumstances are cornering me to open a PP after all.

 

[Weirdy]

I'm in a relatively suburban area, hour away from a major city, but super saturated. 5 other podiatry offices in a 2 mile radius.

Upperline actually offers better compensation than most podiatry private practices here, the current PGY3 residents at the two residencies I work with are signing offers for base salaries from 75-90K...

Can't keep continuing like this. Look like circumstances are cornering me to open a PP after all.

That base is criminal.
Seriously insane.

PP groups shouldn't be offering job openings if they can't
1) Guarantee a base to sustain the new hire of at least 150k+ for 2-3 years while they build up their own patient base
2) Are drowning with patients to feed the new doc.
3) Edit: have multiple offices they geographically can't cover that has potential to grow patient base

 

[Sybly]

That base is criminal.
Seriously insane.

PP groups shouldn't be offering job openings if they can't
1) Guarantee a base to sustain the new hire of at least 150k+ for 2-3 years while they build up their own patient base
2) Are drowning with patients to feed the new doc.
3) Edit: have multiple offices they geographically can't cover that has potential to grow

 

[Sybly]

Under pay by podiatrists to one another- typical

 

[Sybly]

Scrolled past the wall of text but what if I told you this was the income of half of new grads give or take 2-3 years out even?

Bro said the quiet part out loud and god bless him for being that honest. There a ton of pods out here making sub 150.

None have the balls to really admit it especially here

All true what you say!

 

[Adam Smasher]

PP groups shouldn't be offering job openings if they can't
1) Guarantee a base to sustain the new hire of at least 150k+ for 2-3 years while they build up their own patient base
2) Are drowning with patients to feed the new doc.
3) Edit: have multiple offices they geographically can't cover that has potential to grow patient base

This is why I hired a NP and not a DPM associate. The real minimum wage is $0. Hate the market, not the employer.

 

[Dermato Fight Club]

I think a great experiment for @Dean’s Chat podcast would be to have @Mia McBhul provide you with his/her CV and send that out to all available job openings (no word of mouth). Give it a month and discuss the interview/job offers you recieve.