Okami WW Game Thread

[Lawpy]

yeet zenge

unyeet zeng

Engaged

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[justafluff]

This is long form for me to say “yes, I still think you’re a villager”

I'm so sorry. I tend to feel disheartened when someone says "I don't like your posts" cause it wasn't like "I don't like this post" or "this is wolfy" and then your adding on top that "my playing is odd" even if you say afterwards you still don't find me wolfy, that, felt like shading and registered in my head as alarming. Sorry, I'll drop it.

 

[Lawpy]

Hindsight is 20/20

I didn’t exist here until D3.

 

[Truenamer]

Not loving the feeling I'm getting from Lawpy's reasoning but I don't think I want to vote for him right after subbing in.

Is that irrational? I feel like catching a wolf on day 2 is giving me a false sense of security.

 

[justafluff]

No, you’re misunderstanding the point. The point of quoting the tally is to show Woxy was suspected right in D1 onwards and also to further illustrate the Zenges wagon is bad. Vissy’s decision to vote Zenges is beyond my control and i think that was a bad vote that i’m dismissing it as pure irrationality arising from RL factors,

Also you played Bowling WW so you’ll know how wolf!vissy’s plays there were wildly different from the one shown here.

Zuri was modkilled very early in BoWWling.

 

[Truenamer]

I didn’t exist here until D3.

Yes, I know, and I'm just saying that it is very easy to go back and look at someone's posts and say "this is obviously Wolfy" when you are given the knowledge that they are a wolf ahead of time.

 

[Crayola227]

I know this is really self-defeating to say this, but man i disliked this vote and the entire Zenges wagon when i was totting prior to subbing in. You can therefore imagine how I really felt when I did step in. Hold pls as I continue with my analysis

You realize subbing in saying how much you disliked a villager misyeet that occured practically years ago, that repeating that statement does little to make it more believable or give you any village points at all?

If you see me saying I'm sorry about it, it's not because I expect village points for it. I assume Zenge and Shorty might be reading and I feel very bad about players that have died in a pattern we see across games. That's NAI.

The only thing that can be AI, is when someone is seeming like they're vying for village points where it makes no sense to receive any. That I am calling out.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Not loving the feeling I'm getting from Lawpy's reasoning but I don't think I want to vote for him right after subbing in.

Is that irrational? I feel like catching a wolf on day 2 is giving me a false sense of security.

Not irrational unless it's marvolo.

 

[Lawpy]

Yes, I know, and I'm just saying that it is very easy to go back and look at someone's posts and say "this is obviously Wolfy" when you are given the knowledge that they are a wolf ahead of time.

The purpose is to look for Woxy interactions and vote placements and the fact that Woxy was under heavy suspicion in D1 is an objective fact in itself. It’s not like Woxy went under the radar in D1 and then became heavily suspected in D2, which in that regards, the wagon would be more clearing.

Also i was saying obviously wolfy based on my own tot chat reads of the situation in real time before stepping into the game. Just like how i was doubling down on the zenges wagon being terrible. I know that’s out of scope and i subbed into a spot that did literally the exact opposite of how I was approaching the game but it’s less hindsight and more trying to get a better sense of the game

 

[Crayola227]

Lawpy I am sorry and I appreciate that you sub into bad spots. Frankly it seemed many of us practically forgot about Vis, or certainly the pressure wasn't super high this last however long. I truly feel the issues for you today have little to do with existing sus on Vis and have everything to do with your pushes in the here and now.

I know that I certainly can't pass out to you a village badge for your stated dislike of the z wagon, anything vis has done you claim you disagree with, and certainly not for your reads or your push on me in specific.

 

[zuriburi]

No, you’re misunderstanding the point. The point of quoting the tally is to show Woxy was suspected right in D1 onwards and also to further illustrate the Zenges wagon is bad. Vissy’s decision to vote Zenges is beyond my control and i think that was a bad vote that i’m dismissing it as pure irrationality arising from RL factors,

Also you played Bowling WW so you’ll know how wolf!vissy’s plays there were wildly different from the one shown here.

Actually thanks for bringing that up because I’ve been thinking about it and in both this game and bowling vis made the claim that they wanted to go easy on noobs while casting sus on noobs which I called out as feeling wolfy. In that game I also went down screaming to consider vis sus after people who had listed vis toward the top of their poe were nightkilled and people told me that was too hamfisted for vis but it wasn’t. In this game samac and zenge both had vis toward the top of their poes at their time of dying. So in my experience in all the ways that matter wolf!visc is plent consistent with my last experience of wolf!visc thank you very much.

 

[Lawpy]

You realize subbing in saying how much you disliked a villager misyeet that occured practically years ago, that repeating that statement does little to make it more believable or give you any village points at all?

If you see me saying I'm sorry about it, it's not because I expect village points for it. I assume Zenge and Shorty might be reading and I feel very bad about players that have died in a pattern we see across games. That's NAI.

The only thing that can be AI, is when someone is seeming like they're vying for village points where it makes no sense to receive any. That I am calling out.

It’s not meant to be AI. It’s illustrating the challenges i’m facing when how i’m approaching the game from my view and my perspective is in direct opposition to my predecessor, and thus by extension, i’m getting criticized for the actions that i myself am criticizing

This is why when i’m clearly and objectively illustrating how Woxy was so heavily suspected in D1 itself and why that doesn’t mean the Woxy D2 wagon is clearing, i’m also saying the Zenges vote was bad and therefore the rationale to criticize vissy for that vote is not unjustified

 

[justafluff]

Actually thanks for bringing that up because I’ve been thinking about it and in both this game and bowling vis made the claim that they wanted to go easy on noobs while casting sus on noobs which I called out as feeling wolfy. In that game I also went down screaming to consider vis sus after people who had listed vis toward the top of their poe were nightkilled and people told me that was too hamfisted for vis but it wasn’t. In this game samac and zenge both had vis toward the top of their poes at their time of dying. So in my experience in all the ways that matter wolf!visc is plent consistent with my last experience of wolf!visc thank you very much.

Daaaaaamn Zuri I thought you didn't remember anyone except Mel

 

[zuriburi]

No, you’re misunderstanding the point. The point of quoting the tally is to show Woxy was suspected right in D1 onwards and also to further illustrate the Zenges wagon is bad. Vissy’s decision to vote Zenges is beyond my control and i think that was a bad vote that i’m dismissing it as pure irrationality arising from RL factors,

Also you played Bowling WW so you’ll know how wolf!vissy’s plays there were wildly different from the one shown here.

Anyway but getting back to this tally how does this tally in any way support you putting cray in your poe?

 

[SportPonies]

I'm so sorry. I tend to feel disheartened when someone says "I don't like your posts" cause it wasn't like "I don't like this post" or "this is wolfy" and then your adding on top that "my playing is odd" even if you say afterwards you still don't find me wolfy, that, felt like shading and registered in my head as alarming. Sorry, I'll drop it.

It’s okay, no hurt feelings. Seriously.

I try to point out if a post feels “weird” to me because then I’m more likely to remember those things if I need to come back and reevaluate my reads.

I don’t think you’ve been outwardly wolfy, just that your play was less villagey than I would’ve liked. But like, happens to all of us.

Your tone is still not consistent with wolf!fluff and that’s why I don’t think you’re a wolf. You have a pretty marked wolf play style.

 

[Lawpy]

Lawpy I am sorry and I appreciate that you sub into bad spots. Frankly it seemed many of us practically forgot about Vis, or certainly the pressure wasn't super high this last however long. I truly feel the issues for you today have little to do with existing sus on Vis and have everything to do with your pushes in the here and now.

No the progression of events in N1 and D2 guarantee vissy would be on the chopping block today irrespective of whether I subbed in. Hold pls

 

[SportPonies]

Actually thanks for bringing that up because I’ve been thinking about it and in both this game and bowling vis made the claim that they wanted to go easy on noobs while casting sus on noobs which I called out as feeling wolfy. In that game I also went down screaming to consider vis sus after people who had listed vis toward the top of their poe were nightkilled and people told me that was too hamfisted for vis but it wasn’t. In this game samac and zenge both had vis toward the top of their poes at their time of dying. So in my experience in all the ways that matter wolf!visc is plent consistent with my last experience of wolf!visc thank you very much.

Why do you know this

 

[zuriburi]

Daaaaaamn Zuri I thought you didn't remember anyone except Mel

I had forgot but I looked this up this morning because I remember that I wasn’t actually calling out metl initially and thought it might have been vis

 

[Lawpy]

Eh I get the whole thing with salt votes, but feel it's starting to be overused and it's starting to feel, I dunno, lazy and like good cover for wolves to put out opportunistic D1 RVS votes especially on strong players.

Well, I guess I should support it in light of my wanting pressure applied to certain players, so I guess it depends on if ppl are using it on the low hanging misyeet fruit types.

Then again, I just sorta hate salt or RVS type votes. Not a big deal if people don't stick to them.

It would be nice if people slung real sus on each other out of the gate.

Cray, why are you trying to use the salt vote reasoning as if it’s AI in any way?

 

[Crayola227]

Hindsight is 20/20

Yeah I will fully admit this game and last game, I had an irrational traction against going into the paint to yeet noobs, even ones sketchy by my own estimation.

I still don't regret we gave WO the day. It was also a day for his partner(s?) to interact not knowing for sure he was going down, so again, the timing of doing it yesterday maybe not too bad.

Meaning, village didn't have to give up the game to give sketch new noob a day to try to play and work himself out. I am 100% for plays that BOTH don't compromise the game AND foster inclusiveness, truly. If I've never made that clear.let it be clear now. If I hadn't had some.doubts and thought he was howling for sure D1, that would be different. In any case, it's fine he went when he did.

The Z D1 yeet was sad not because I didn't have strong doubts about him (I did) but I am lamenting some players dying early game over and over. I will say that I don't regret it was by yeet and not by NK. In any case, I am all for shaking up status quo if we can do it without throwing the game.

I need to go back and look, but I think that we may have more data given what happened then if things had happened differently.

Sorry, I digressed. I've had issues voting some ppl this game. I am way subject to feels getting in my way sometimes.

 

[zuriburi]

Why do you know this

It’s the only other time Ive played. If you like I can dig up the interactions Im referring to here. I’m just not going to let the visc Is different from the wolf!visc in bowling card slide when I think I might have been the first person to call wolf on visc in that game and it was behavior also reflected in this game.

 

[Crayola227]

Cray, why are you trying to use the salt vote reasoning as if it’s AI in any way?

Because to me IT IS.

Choosing to do something NAI D1, is in itself, a choice that could be influenced by Aff.

And if nothing else, my railing against them created interactions. As much as I hate some interactions with AM, it did help me get a read on her, and she can correct me that I think it helped her read me. But maybe not the latter, I dunno.

It remains to be seen if I was white knighted. I suspect so.

And yes, something about the salt vote clearly triggered something in me and it did lead me to vote WO as part of it. It wasn't very accurate with Dubz, but my point is that the whole D1 blow up about it led to interactions I used.

Some people can take their D1 salt vote love and their "but Cray hating on them does nothing" and they can stick it on a big horse named Cray's Big Richard and smack it on the ass and send it out of town. This is meant to be a joke and not a personal attack.

 

[Lawpy]

#### yeet samac ####

Also eyeing Zenge, but not sure I want to vote with zuri yet.

Don't care for the fluff and true votes. Salt votes are bugging me. Salt votes from ww vet leaders on wolf noobs that just lost the prior game I like even less.

This looked like a serious vote, but the salt insistence is weird.

Then we have a sequence of these posts:

#### yeet samac ####

Also eyeing Zenge, but not sure I want to vote with zuri yet.

Don't care for the fluff and true votes. Salt votes are bugging me. Salt votes from ww vet leaders on wolf noobs that just lost the prior game I like even less.

I rock it harder when I'm village.

The salt vote trend has been bothering me for a while.

Plus, honestly I thought Dubz was salt voting True based on her second post after voting True, answering the question of why with a joke referencing a past game where True won. Referencing past games in a jokey way as a reason for D1 votes where there is little other reason to vote someone I took to be the definition of jokey salt (if not the only definition of a salt vote). I thought both you and Dubz on True D1 was a little much unless you really thought they were wolfing (hard to believe this early in game) or you both really thought the pressure was needed there to get an early read on them. But I really hadn't accounted for people being fooled by True last game. But True has pinged me as wolfy in most games I can recall playing with them, so I don't pretend to be great at correctly reading True, except that I expect to have little difficulty being convinced by others to vote there if they agree they seem wolfy. But I kind of forgot that while *I* might think in my head that TN is wolfy and have no issues voting there as needed, that others might struggle to see wolfiness there when it actually is there.

So what's the main takeaway from this post? I'm getting whiplash from seeing True shouldn't be pressured, to saying you often read him wrong, to saying you'll vote for him if others do, to saying he can't be wolfy this early on, to saying others misclear him.

So you're village reading True then?

I don't have a good read on true yet.

You and Dubz don't look so good so far in my estimation though.

Cray, why are you using salt voting reasoning as if it’s AI? This is important because iirc you were trying to overjustify that Woxy D1 pressure vote by tying that into your salt insistence

 

[Lawpy]

Because to me IT IS.

Choosing to do something NAI D1, is in itself, a choice that could be influenced by Aff.

And if nothing else, my railing against them created interactions. As much as I hate some interactions with AM, it did help me get a read on her, and she can correct me that I think it helped her read me. But maybe not the latter, I dunno.

It remains to be seen if I was white knighted. I suspect so.

And yes, something about the salt vote clearly triggered something in me and it did lead me to vote WO as part of it. It wasn't very accurate with Dubz, but my point is that the whole D1 blow up about it led to interactions I used.

Some people can take their D1 salt vote love and their "but Cray hating on them does nothing" and they can stick it on a big horse named Cray's Big Richard and smack it on the ass and send it out of town. This is meant to be a joke and not a personal attack.

You were wolfreading a lot of people, including WZ and samacs, along with Woxy and because of the Woxy wolf flip, you’re trying to use the relatively inaccurate salt read to overjustify your stance on the D1 pressure vote

 

[Lawpy]

Hey wolves,

I don't buy for a second that Samc isn't a wolf. You might think these these other people are joking, but I'm not.

##### contingency yeet samac for realz ####

And what

 

[zuriburi]

@genny I would love to know what you think of lawpy. Realize there’s a lot to catch up on now if you’ve been afk.

 

[Lawpy]

My ccc list?

Notice the word cray cray cray is in it 3 times.

My main POE is WO, plus or minus Zuri and TN. I've been going a few rounds many times about those players being my POE. I've said I'm trying to blocc with AM and Samac. I even gave them total control of my vote not only on WO, but earlier voting Visc with AM.

But I reserve the right to question anyone at any time.

Cray, this doesn’t make sense

 

[Animal Midwife]

And what

Well, this last one was done by multiple people.

 

[Lawpy]

I have paranoia concerns about TN, genny, SP, and Samac, in that order. But TN is a wide tier above, and genny and SP are much lower on the list. Samac is very bottom.

I think I need something distinct from POE, we could say I have two lists. A POE, and like, Cray's cray cray list. Call it the CCC. The hall of paranoia. I don't know, need something clever.

The paranoia concerns are in the case that we have things wrong and we need to start our list over and if it starts to look like sheeping dead D1 Zenge's reads aren't going to do it for us.

Why did you want to blocc with samacs if you’re paranoid about samacs and even serious voted her?

 

[Lawpy]

Well, this last one was done by multiple people.

Cray explicitly said her vote was serious

 

[Animal Midwife]

Cray explicitly said her vote was serious

There's no way that last vote was serious.

 

[Lawpy]

Also guys don’t think i’m suddenly going on a wolfhunting spree. I’ve been doing this since the moment I stepped in until people were zoning in and misinterpreting the Woxy D2 wagon bussing theory. Now hold pls

 

[justafluff]

Cray explicitly said her vote was serious

we were all trying to keep samac from dying! Are you gonna use the "for realz" as evidence now?

 

[zuriburi]

Cray explicitly said her vote was serious

Yeah that post was very clearly a joke. it was addressed to wolves. And I think youre trying to play naive here to earn some village points

 

[Lawpy]

There's no way that last vote was serious.

Even despite the broader context of her aforementioned samacs paranoia i quoted few posts above?

 

[Lawpy]

Yeah that post was very clearly a joke. it was addressed to wolves. And I think youre trying to play naive here to earn some village points

Not naive, look at the broader context of the rest of the posts i quoted above

 

[Crayola227]

This looked like a serious vote, but the salt insistence is weird.

Then we have a sequence of these posts:










Cray, why are you using salt voting reasoning as if it’s AI? This is important because iirc you were trying to overjustify that Woxy D1 pressure vote by tying that into your salt insistence

Woxy was also guilty of using a salt vote. Clearly a wolfy instance of using one to hide behind. Salt votes are incredibly easy outs for wolves. I've been saying for years to avoid them when possible.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Even despite the broader context of her aforementioned samacs paranoia i quoted few posts above?

Lawpy, look at the post it's quoting.

In fact, look at a lot of the posts on that page.

 

[zuriburi]

Not naive, look at the broader context of the rest of the posts i quoted above

 

[justafluff]

Even despite the broader context of her aforementioned samacs paranoia i quoted few posts above?

She specifically mentioned at several points that she thinks samac is a villager this game. She said she trusted samac and followed her in voting wOxy. She very specifically clarified that the ccc list is the ultra paranoid list. Which means she has her normal POE and the paranoid POE because that's how she plays the game.

 

[Lawpy]

Lawpy, look at the post it's quoting.

In fact, look at a lot of the posts on that page.

I’m looking in the perspective of these 2 posts that i’m trying to reconcile:

I have paranoia concerns about TN, genny, SP, and Samac, in that order. But TN is a wide tier above, and genny and SP are much lower on the list. Samac is very bottom.

I think I need something distinct from POE, we could say I have two lists. A POE, and like, Cray's cray cray list. Call it the CCC. The hall of paranoia. I don't know, need something clever.

The paranoia concerns are in the case that we have things wrong and we need to start our list over and if it starts to look like sheeping dead D1 Zenge's reads aren't going to do it for us.

My ccc list?

Notice the word cray cray cray is in it 3 times.

My main POE is WO, plus or minus Zuri and TN. I've been going a few rounds many times about those players being my POE. I've said I'm trying to blocc with AM and Samac. I even gave them total control of my vote not only on WO, but earlier voting Visc with AM.

But I reserve the right to question anyone at any time.

 

[Crayola227]

You were wolfreading a lot of people, including WZ and samacs, along with Woxy and because of the Woxy wolf flip, you’re trying to use the relatively inaccurate salt read to overjustify your stance on the D1 pressure vote

I think I said wolves hide behind salt votes, and villagers using them give them cover. And in my world, can make villagers who use them appear to be wolfier than they really are. Doesn't change that my point about wolves hiding behind salt votes was proven correct. If samac is going to be given credit about subconscious symmetrical reads lists having merit, I see no reason to conclude that my point about wolves and salt votes has any less merit than that or say Lupin's rule.

Arguably Lupin's rule could also just be statistics.

 

[zuriburi]

Why did you want to blocc with samacs if you’re paranoid about samacs and even serious voted her?

The post you’re calling out here is clearly just cray saying that if she Goes full tinfoil hat paranoid mode anyone in her village reads could be a wolf but out of all of those people samac is the 5th most likely to be a wolf. Then the contingency yeet was in a string of people joking to keep samac from being nked

 

[Animal Midwife]

I’m looking in the perspective of these 2 posts that i’m trying to reconcile:

It's not connected to those posts regardless of what's in them. Sporty's vote was more connected to dubz than Cray's vote there.

 

[Lawpy]

She specifically mentioned at several points that she thinks samac is a villager this game. She said she trusted samac and followed her in voting wOxy. She very specifically clarified that the ccc list is the ultra paranoid list. Which means she has her normal POE and the paranoid POE because that's how she plays the game.

Her main POE has at most like 2 people unless for some reason she assumed compatibility between Truey and Woxy, so the paranoid POE is not out of the realm of possibility

 

[Crayola227]

And what

Oh please Lawpy, you're going to try to shade me over that? You do realize the wink wink people added into their contigency votes had zero chance of fooling wolves that way, especially given from whom they came? And that of any villager in existence I am probably the one most able to be convincing about possibly misyeeting samac? Before that contingency I was very consistent in my samac read after D1. She made it to the ccc list but never back in the POE after D1.

But as a wolf I have given serious thought to what a villager said that might otherwise be taken as a joke, I call it the principle of "wolf hope for misyeets springs eternal". So I thought it worth trying to act like my contingency was real since of any player I had maybe the best shot of selling that hope to wolves.

 

[Lawpy]

I think I said wolves hide behind salt votes, and villagers using them give them cover. And in my world, can make villagers who use them appear to be wolfier than they really are. Doesn't change that my point about wolves hiding behind salt votes was proven correct. If samac is going to be given credit about subconscious symmetrical reads lists having merit, I see no reason to conclude that my point about wolves and salt votes has any less merit than that or say Lupin's rule.

Arguably Lupin's rule could also just be statistics.

It’s a low accuracy move, and thus a high chance of error and the Woxy D1 vote was based on pressure. Wolves can hide behind anything, RNG votes, sheep votes etc. that’s not AI in itself

 

[genny]

@genny I would love to know what you think of lawpy. Realize there’s a lot to catch up on now if you’ve been afk.

i think he's kind of shooting himself in the foot by sussing me as AM and i are the only players who have expressed any suspicion of fluff at all. so it's fun that he's got us both in his POE

 

[Crayola227]

Cray, this doesn’t make sense

That I have paranoia of my top village reads?? Lawpy, you have played with me before.

 

[genny]

Engaged

great, you quoted my lack of vote. are you going to add any interpretation to that, or just continue to quote things without making a point?