Old Timer Physicians Dislike Young Physician Attitude (Lifestyle!)

[MIAYO]

I have encountered several physicians that dislike the fact that the new age of physicians are lazy. The newcomers are more likely to choose lifestyle friendly specialties such as those within ROAD.

Do you think this new attitude is a bad thing?

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[nadaba]

I have encountered several physicians that dislike the fact that the new age of physicians are lazy. The newcomers are more likely to choose lifestyle friendly specialties such as those within ROAD.

Do you think this new attitude is a bad thing?

It would be interesting to ask these older physicians what their debt was when they graduated medical school.

 

[MIAYO]

It would be interesting to ask these older physicians what their debt was when they graduated medical school.

That would explain the increased interest in higher paying specialties. But, it does not explain the fact that new grads are very into having a good lifestyle. Ie home
For dinner, time with kids, less call. The old timers were really into working their butts off regardless of debt.

 

[CodeBlu]

I have encountered several physicians that dislike the fact that the new age of physicians are lazy. The newcomers are more likely to choose lifestyle friendly specialties such as those within ROAD.

Do you think this new attitude is a bad thing?

No I do not. Maybe I've become a bit of a cynic... but I work in an ED... and we see all sorts of seekers and that's not even beginning to scratch the surface.

All of the docs I work with say... "Whatever you do... don't go into primary care. If you wanna do primary care... do EM."

At first, I was kinda like ... now I know what they meant...

Basically, most ED visits are primary care related... examples...

i) My blood pressure is too high
ii) I have pink eye
iii) I have a cough, cold, flu, fever... whatever

Rarely do we see... REAL emergencies... as in... drop everything and go evaluate that pt right away.

Difference between EM and primary care? The money... EM docs make way more money.

It would be interesting to ask these older physicians what their debt was when they graduated medical school.

I agree here my friend.

These older docs just don't quite get it. My own brother who is in academic medicine (sort of not really anymore tho).... doesn't GET it. His tuition was like 10,000 a year... whereas at the school he attended it's now 35Kish... 3.5x the price when he went... so........... yeah

 

[CodeBlu]

That would explain the increased interest in higher paying specialties. But, it does not explain the fact that new grads are very into having a good lifestyle. Ie home
For dinner, time with kids, less call. The old timers were really into working their butts off regardless of debt.

Ctrl-F cocaine in this article.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1500922/

 

[NickNaylor]

That would explain the increased interest in higher paying specialties. But, it does not explain the fact that new grads are very into having a good lifestyle. Ie home
For dinner, time with kids, less call. The old timers were really into working their butts off regardless of debt.

The whole idea of a "work-life balance" has become mainstream. I think older generations are less enamored with that idea than the younger generation(s) are.

 

[CodeBlu]

I should also add the following...

I thought night shifts were really cool... until I did about 9 of them in a row because we were short staffed...

There's only so much a person can take.

Now don't get me wrong... I've learned to appreciate the following...

DSP = day shift problem

Perk of night shift in an ED... you don't get AS MUCH stupidity walking in through the door. aka. no vaginal bleeding that goes like this... "Well... are you on your period miss...?"

 

[tiedyeddog]

The whole idea of a "work-life balance" has become mainstream. I think older generations are less enamored with that idea than the younger generation(s) are.

I think this is what has been going on. If you work in the corporate world the same thing is going on (with similar results, I might add. Everyone talks about it and all employees want this work-life balance, but I think it doesn't occur that often.)

My dad is the old, old guard. He didn't bat an eye at pulling 110 hour weeks during residency, he just thought it was the nature of the job.

Plus the old generation always has this kind of idea about the new..... Cranky geezers.

 

[NickNaylor]

I think this is what has been going on. If you work in the corporate world the same thing is going on (with similar results, I might add. Everyone talks about it and all employees want this work-life balance, but I think it doesn't occur that often.)

My dad is the old, old guard. He didn't bat an eye at pulling 110 hour weeks during residency, he just thought it was the nature of the job.

Plus the old generation always has this kind of idea about the new..... Cranky geezers.

I'm sure we'll become the GET OFF MY LAWN type in 20-30 years. It's the nature of things.

 

[star230]

I think this is what has been going on. If you work in the corporate world the same thing is going on (with similar results, I might add. Everyone talks about it and all employees want this work-life balance, but I think it doesn't occur that often.)

My dad is the old, old guard. He didn't bat an eye at pulling 110 hour weeks during residency, he just thought it was the nature of the job.

Plus the old generation always has this kind of idea about the new..... Cranky geezers.

Your dad is COOL!!!!!!!

 

[thomallama]

I have encountered several physicians that dislike the fact that the new age of physicians are lazy.

I picked up on this with my first interviewer. I spun it to my advantage, telling him my most disliked traits of others are laziness and expecting things to be handed to them (both of which are entirely true). I also asked him about his opinion on the 80 hr. workweek for residents. He was so passionate about it he dropped an f-bomb describing his distaste for it.

I was accepted the next week

 

[MIAYO]

I'm sure we'll become the GET OFF MY LAWN type in 20-30 years. It's the nature of things.

We will find ourselves saying things like, "back in my
Day..."

 

[jkm07]

We will find ourselves saying things like, "back in my
Day..."

...Pluto was a planet!

 

[MIAYO]

...Pluto was a planet!

Nice. I loled.

 

[MIAYO]

I picked up on this with my first interviewer. I spun it to my advantage, telling him my most disliked traits of others are laziness and expecting things to be handed to them (both of which are entirely true). I also asked him about his opinion on the 80 hr. workweek for residents. He was so passionate about it he dropped an f-bomb describing his distaste for it.

I was accepted the next week

I picked up on this at several interviews as well. It actually inspired this thread post.
Congrats on the acceptance!

 

[Narmerguy]

The whole idea of a "work-life balance" has become mainstream. I think older generations are less enamored with that idea than the younger generation(s) are.

+1. We (Americans) are getting soft. That's not a bad thing. Europe's been this way for quite some time in fact.

We will find ourselves saying things like, "back in my
Day..."

Man I already say this. Typically when talking about video games I can't stand today's games with their HD and 3-directional motion. What happened to a scrolling screen as my character jumped on-top of the heads of the bad guys? Why do I have to collect accomplishments to unlock stuff?

 

[SitraAchra]

Back in my day interns pulled 30+ hour shifts. And that was just last year. It's empowering to say it, I understand why older physicians talk smack.

They call a CT the 5th vital sign.

 

[deleted398564]

.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I have encountered several physicians that dislike the fact that the new age of physicians are lazy. The newcomers are more likely to choose lifestyle friendly specialties such as those within ROAD.

Do you think this new attitude is a bad thing?

considering the "old timers" ruined things financially for the rest of us, they can suck it.

 

[kpcrew]

considering the "old timers" ruined things financially for the rest of us, they can suck it.

what are you talking about? they earned those middle class entitlements!

 

[235788]

what are you talking about? they earned those middle class entitlements!

ehh i personally feel they let the insurance companies get too much power. Way to not unite and lobby earlier old fogies.

 

[willen101383]

No I do not. Maybe I've become a bit of a cynic... but I work in an ED... and we see all sorts of seekers and that's not even beginning to scratch the surface.

All of the docs I work with say... "Whatever you do... don't go into primary care. If you wanna do primary care... do EM."

At first, I was kinda like ... now I know what they meant...

Basically, most ED visits are primary care related... examples...

i) My blood pressure is too high
ii) I have pink eye
iii) I have a cough, cold, flu, fever... whatever

Rarely do we see... REAL emergencies... as in... drop everything and go evaluate that pt right away.

Difference between EM and primary care? The money... EM docs make way more money.



I agree here my friend.

These older docs just don't quite get it. My own brother who is in academic medicine (sort of not really anymore tho).... doesn't GET it. His tuition was like 10,000 a year... whereas at the school he attended it's now 35Kish... 3.5x the price when he went... so........... yeah

And alas EM is still my #1. Every field gets different types of BS. Shift work+hourly wages=FTW

 

[willen101383]

And yes Ive heard this plenty...from my pops, from other docs, etc. We got a lecture on this m1 year during orientation...on the "millenial mindset" and how much it pisses off older attendings.

 

[akszp4]

considering the "old timers" ruined things financially for the rest of us, they can suck it.

You can say that again. I really think that they need to understand that their generation really just set us up for failure. We have to do our best to adjust and unfortunately that is going to limit what specialties people go into.

 

[pancakesyrup]

These "old timers" could work very long hours because they typically had a stay home wife who took care of the kids and household.

Not only do today's young doctors have tremendous debt, it is also much more common for women to work full time jobs, so family needs are now a much more important factor for male physicians.

 

[varsityblue]

I have encountered several physicians that dislike the fact that the new age of physicians are lazy. The newcomers are more likely to choose lifestyle friendly specialties such as those within ROAD.

Do you think this new attitude is a bad thing?

Absolutely not. People on the ROAD to success had to bust their butts to get high MCAT and Step 1 scores, AOA, and Honors in their clinical years. They deserve the lifestyle they're going to receive after passing their boards. I believe that the individuals you label as "newcomers" are FAR from lazy...they are probably the most driven, passionate, and brilliant of the group of medical graduates worldwide because they understand that there is more to life than work. .:. Working like a dog doesn't make a man great.

 

[dreamweaver1988]

ehh i personally feel they let the insurance companies get too much power. Way to not unite and lobby earlier old fogies.

Not to mention the rise of the DNP

 

[MIAYO]

Absolutely not. People on the ROAD to success had to bust their butts to get high MCAT and Step 1 scores, AOA, and Honors in their clinical years. They deserve the lifestyle they're going to receive after passing their boards. I believe that the individuals you label as "newcomers" are FAR from lazy...they are probably the most driven, passionate, and brilliant of the group of medical graduates worldwide because they understand that there is more to life than work. .:. Working like a dog doesn't make a man great.

I meant for it to come across as the older generations viewing the newer generations as lazy. I agree with what you said. I personally don't think our generation is lazy; we are simply a new breed.

 

[varsityblue]

I meant for it to come across as the older generations viewing the newer generations as lazy. I agree with what you said. I personally don't think our generation is lazy; we are simply a new breed.

Who cares what the older generation thinks? They won't be giving me money for seeing my patients, haha.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Your dad is COOL!!!!!!!

THANKS BRA

I'm sure we'll become the GET OFF MY LAWN type in 20-30 years. It's the nature of things.

Hell, I don't want people on my yard now.

And yes Ive heard this plenty...from my pops, from other docs, etc. We got a lecture on this m1 year during orientation...on the "millenial mindset" and how much it pisses off older attendings.

What?!? What was the point of that? Be happy being slaves? I mean we heard "medicine is a cruel mistress, and you're wives/husbands/whatevers will almost certainly feel medicine gets most of your attention" but I think at least wanting a work-life balance is a good thing... Doesn't mean we get it, but there is nothing wrong with wanting it.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Medicine has progressed immensely in the last 40 years. Cases have gotten far more complex and the volume of patients have increased steadily while doctoratient ratio has steadily decreased or remained flat. Add to that rising specialist pay, decreasing PCP pay and increasing medical school debt and it's no wonder there's a retreat to "lifestyle" specialties.

 

[centrigeugle]

Work-life balance, schmerk-rife schalance.

 

[Remedies]

Work-life balance, schmerk-rife schalance.

+1.

Future workaholics ftw?

 

[centrigeugle]

+1.

Future workaholics ftw?

High five!

,O/|O.

 

[Hamiltonian]

Also, maybe a generation of kids raised by absentee physician parents knew how terrible that was, and didn't want to do that to their future families.

 

[druggeek]

It would be interesting to ask these older physicians what their debt was when they graduated medical school.

irrelevant, cause debt is a lottt lower in Canada but the ROAD specialties are even more competitive than in the U.S.

 

[idontcaureuknow]

Also, maybe a generation of kids raised by absentee physician parents knew how terrible that was, and didn't want to do that to their future families.

^^^ A big reason why I want a work-life balance.

My mom works as a hospital pharmacist, growing up she was never home when I was because she was always working (I do mean always). It wasn't until high school was I able to spend time with her and that was only because I could stay up past 10 p.m. I want to have an active and noticeable presence in the life of my eventual offspring throughout their lives. And I wish for it to more than just a role as a provider.

 

[muhali3]

+1. We (Americans) are getting soft. That's not a bad thing. Europe's been this way for quite some time in fact.



Man I already say this. Typically when talking about video games I can't stand today's games with their HD and 3-directional motion. What happened to a scrolling screen as my character jumped on-top of the heads of the bad guys? Why do I have to collect accomplishments to unlock stuff?

ye ye...that's what i'm talking about.

 

[scarshapedstar]

ye ye...that's what i'm talking about.

Worst game in the series.

 

[scarshapedstar]

Absolutely not. People on the ROAD to success had to bust their butts to get high MCAT and Step 1 scores, AOA, and Honors in their clinical years. They deserve the lifestyle they're going to receive after passing their boards. I believe that the individuals you label as "newcomers" are FAR from lazy...they are probably the most driven, passionate, and brilliant of the group of medical graduates worldwide because they understand that there is more to life than work. .:. Working like a dog doesn't make a man great.

Isn't there also more to "success" than cush? I've been aspiring to med. onc. because I love molecular biology and I'm excited by the cutting edge techniques that seem poised to revolutionize the field, but apparently in IM I will be surrounded by miserable do-nothings and halfwits who couldn't match derm.

 

[Law2Doc]

I have encountered several physicians that dislike the fact that the new age of physicians are lazy. The newcomers are more likely to choose lifestyle friendly specialties such as those within ROAD.

Do you think this new attitude is a bad thing?

This was a big topic the year I was applying to med school, at the tail of a dot com bubble. There were numerous articles on here and elsewhere attacking college and med school grads for not having realistic expectations of the working world, and actually a 60 minute story on the subject. Young grads expected to be high paid but be able to set their own hours, dress code, work environment, etc. It was unrealistic, but in a sellers market the best and brightest youngsters got to make some unrealistic demands. (casual dress, foosball tables in the office, free food). At the time, nontrads became very popular hirees at some practices because their expectations were more realistic. Simply a better work ethic in the opinions of some practices. Then the economy came crashing back down to earth. Those who could, crawled into lifestyle specialties, while everyone else got more reasonable in their expectations or went unemployed. Today, in an era where a lot of college grads can't even find jobs, I doubt many people expect to be overpaid and underworked. They may dream of that, but not expect it. So the economy has corrected this poor work ethic issue on it's own. No longer an issue.

 

[Law2Doc]

Who cares what the older generation thinks? They won't be giving me money for seeing my patients, haha.

In this economy the older generation is holding onto it's jobs a lot longer, not able to afford retirement. You will be dealing with them as bosses and barriers to partnership a lot more than the prior generation if the tight economy keeps up.

 

[muhali3]

Worst game in the series.

better than dkc1 and 3 imo... /derail

 

[Cinclus]

better than dkc1 and 3 imo... /derail

I agree. I love DKC2!

I only want my work to be a part of my life; I want my play time to be another large element. If this bothers some old-timers, I'm not too concerned. I will just be careful with whom I share my desire for work/life balance.

 

[MIAYO]

This was a big topic the year I was applying to med school, at the tail of a dot com bubble. There were numerous articles on here and elsewhere attacking college and med school grads for not having realistic expectations of the working world, and actually a 60 minute story on the subject. Young grads expected to be high paid but be able to set their own hours, dress code, work environment, etc. It was unrealistic, but in a sellers market the best and brightest youngsters got to make some unrealistic demands. (casual dress, foosball tables in the office, free food). At the time, nontrads became very popular hirees at some practices because their expectations were more realistic. Simply a better work ethic in the opinions of some practices. Then the economy came crashing back down to earth. Those who could, crawled into lifestyle specialties, while everyone else got more reasonable in their expectations or went unemployed. Today, in an era where a lot of college grads can't even find jobs, I doubt many people expect to be overpaid and underworked. They may dream of that, but not expect it. So the economy has corrected this poor work ethic issue on it's own. No longer an issue.

Thanks for the great input

 

[MIAYO]

better than dkc1 and 3 imo... /derail

Agree! The new one for the wii is pretty fun too. Nothing like some side scrolling fun.

 

[aslan]

Also, maybe a generation of kids raised by absentee physician parents knew how terrible that was, and didn't want to do that to their future families.

As someone who is basically on vacation until med school starts this summer (all I do is work 40 hours a week- it's fantastic!) and already has a wife and baby, I love the time I get to spend with my little family. I don't want to end up missing my daughter's childhood entirely. And once I'm done with residency I don't want to miss her life entirely. I'm all for the balance. Even if I end up in dun dun dunnnn- primary care!

 

[azerkail]

<snip> Absolutely not. People on the ROAD to success had to bust their butts to get high MCAT and Step 1 scores, AOA, and Honors in their clinical years. <snip>

i saw what you did there.

 

[MIAYO]

Also, maybe a generation of kids raised by absentee physician parents knew how terrible that was, and didn't want to do that to their future families.

Couldn't agree more. Both parents are physicians.

 

[anbuitachi]

probably because now we have more stuff to do? back then did they have the internet? or portable everythings? or skyrim? NO! that is the difference.