OMT and Chiropractics

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Did everyone go on vacation?? Nothin' but the crickets.....chirp....chirp......
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Aaahhh, the whole forum to myself. Just kick back and enjoy the solitude while I reflect on what it means to be alive in this great country. Does anybody have a bottle opener?? Come join me in the jacuzz, the water's warm!!!
 
Why, yes, everyone DID go on vacation! I just got back from vacation myself (again). St. Croix is beautiful this time of year! And it's the down season (some people don't like traveling to the caribbean during hurricane season....dunno why!) so everywhere was crowd free! I was all psyched to jump back in here, but no one has said anything I can reply to! Have we reached a (gulp) understanding? Trey, you still out there buddy? Have a great night y'all, catch ya later.
 
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Treybird,

When you graduated from Chiropractics did you have difficulty getting started in your career? How easy was it for you to build a practice? Did you have trouble getting a loan for your business?

Regards,
student247
 
Hey Jen,

Maybe we just wore everyone down. Glad to hear that the Caribbean is still happenin'. Will you be posting those bikini pics online at the SDN forum?

Student247,

Everyone has a different experience starting out in practice. I entered into a partnership with someone who owned two clinics. The deal was that I would run the second one and we would be 50/50 partners in that clinic. Some Chiros start out as associates (i.e. slaves), or independent contractors. Or, you can buy out an established practice and work out some kind of pay arrangement. My situation didn't require me to put out any money, or take out a loan. If your credit is good, you should be able to get a loan. But, you may need a cosigner.

Building a practice was tough b/c I was in a town of 1500 people and the clinic I was in had had 3 Chiros in 2 years and it had been closed for 6 months. so it was a tough situation to start out in. We have a lot of industry in the area geared towards the auto industry so I approached them about working together on worker's comp stuff, etc. My undergrad degreee is in exercise physiology and I approached them by offering to do a free ergonomic analyses of their workplaces. This got my foot in the door and then I just focused on working on industrial musculoskeletal injuries. It worked out very well and gave me access to all of the people working the factories.

Just a little correction (not trying to be picky..just informative): It's Chiropractic not Chiropractics. There's only one profession so it's not plural.

Thanks for the questions student, anything else I can help you with?
 
Treybird,

Thanks for the information. I've always had a great deal of respect for Chiro's and have even contemplated becoming one myself. So thank you for the info.

Regards,
Student247
 
Hey Student,

Man, you really started a firestorm with this forum. Anyway, glad I could help. Just let me know if you have any more questions. Here are some very good Chiro websites that may help answer anymore questions you have:

<a href="http://www.essex1.com/people/cates/accc.html" target="_blank">http://www.essex1.com/people/cates/accc.html</a>

<a href="http://www.chiroweb.com/college/" target="_blank">http://www.chiroweb.com/college/</a>

<a href="http://www.chiro.org/main/" target="_blank">http://www.chiro.org/main/</a>

<a href="http://www.chiroweb.com/" target="_blank">http://www.chiroweb.com/</a>

<a href="http://www.Palmer.edu/" target="_blank">http://www.Palmer.edu/</a>

<a href="http://www.fcer.org/" target="_blank">http://www.fcer.org/</a>

Chiropractic is a great profession that has a lot to offer. You may see patients that have not received relief anywehere else and you have the opportunity to make a difference in their lives. That's awesome. BUT, our profession is very fragmented and very political and that seems to hold us back from everything. Things are changing, however. Good luck.
 
Sigh.....Why does it always come to this?? DOs are not chiropractors nor would we want to be. Enough said, stop comparing us.
 
jimdo-
Who said DOs are chiros? Who said DOs were all wannabe chiros? Not I. I think that would be obvious since you chose not to become a DC. I think the ENTIRE POINT of this thread was to point out the differences, as well as some similarities. But mostly to justify chiropractic's validity. My whole goal was only to increase recognition so that working together, as two separate professions, is a whole lot easier.

student247-
also check out <a href="http://www.nwhealth.edu" target="_blank">www.nwhealth.edu</a>
wouldn't you agree Trey? :p he he he
Later gators
 
also check out <a href="http://www.nwhealth.edu" target="_blank">www.nwhealth.edu</a> wouldn't you agree Trey?

Absolutely, Jen.

Hey Jen, don't even bother responding to people like jimdo. It's not worth your time and effort. He has no interest in learning anything new, or assimilating, he's just trying to take cheap pop shots because he has nothing better to do...and he's just another self-hating DO that has to slam everyone else to feel some sort of self-worth. I think they call it small-man complex.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Treybird:

...and he's just another self-hating DO that has to slam everyone else to feel some sort of self-worth. I think they call it small-man complex.••••oooo OUCH. I just like trying to spread the love! Why I feel like I have to respond to nonsense posts, I dunno. Maybe I'm just a little defensive! He he he. :p
 
Treybird,
Where do I begin addressing such a post? I am always amazed by those that think they can psychoanalyze others based solely off of one post that is barely a few lines in length. I wonder if it is in an attempt to mask their own inadequacy or only if they are simply so immature or ignorant enough to have little else to say. Rational and intelligent converstaion must not be something youre either accustomed to or in which you are able to engage.
For the record, I am a PROUD DO and do not need to justify myself to you or anyone else. Simply because I disagree with the comparison of DOs and chiropractors does not mean that I am any less of a DO. If you were even marginally skilled in DO medicine you would know that at least. I guess I cannot expect that to be since this is a "PRE-Osteopathic" post after all. I should have anticipated the maturity level in this chatroom when i wandered over to see what those beginning their training were saying. Maybe after youve completed some medical training, have an ounce of experience and a clue about how medicine operates, youll be on par to have an intelligent converstaion with those of us who have.
Why is it that many with your viewpoint assume that those that disagree with you are "self-hating DOs"? I have supported osteopathic medicine as long as I have practiced, belong to the AOA, lobbied the US Congress on DO issues, participated in research and been awarded and recogniozed by the AOA for my work with them. What actual experience do YOU have with osteopathic medicine. Id better make sure I sit down when you respond because Im sure it is EXTENSIVE. I suspect that it is your immaturity and pure lack of meaningful DO experience that allows you to say and believe such immature and absurd comments. Grow up and when you do maybe then youll be on the same level to be able to judge me.
For the record, I am aware that this post was intended to point out similarities and differences between DOs and chiropractors. I also am open to learning new things which you of course would have no knowledge since Ive only posted here once. I need not give my opinion of chiropractors because it is irrelevant here. What is relevant is my experience with being a DO and the general fatigue by many in the profession with being compared with those of a different profession. How would the chiropractors feel if they were incessantly compared with another profession. DOs have far more training in medicine, are licensed physicians, can specialize in any area of medicine and are those of which patients seek counsel when sick. Therefore, the comparison between the two is moot regardless of any perceived similarity in treatment modality. Chiropractors have none of these capabilities. If you want to be compared with or even mentioned in the same sentence as a physician, you should have gone to medical school. Otherwise know your role and stop trying to overstep your bounds.
Lastly, to address the final immature comment about small man syndrome or however you characterized it. If I were Treybird and tried to analyze someone based only off of a few sentences, I would have to say that there must be some underlying feelings of inadequacy and "self-hate" such that the whole issue of smallness is the first thing that comes to mind. If you want to be in the ring with the big boys, at least have maturity to deal with us intelligently and please have some experience and knowledge about what you so ignorantly preach. Otherwise, go back to the playpen with your pacifier and when you grow up, maybe then Ill respect what you have to say.
 
oooooooooooooo ROUND 3!!!! Get out your gloves boys....
Here we go again!
 
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Seems as though I was greatly mistaken. I was under the impression that Treybird was at least engaged somehow in the DO world. However, I see now that he is in fact a chiropractic grad.
This can mean one of two things. 1) He is currently a chiropractor with no idea regarding DO practice or concept or 2) since this is a pre-DO forum he is trying to enter DO medical school. The latter lends me to wonder why if chiro is so great he would want to become a physician. Either way, it is becoming more and more clear that Treybird really is not quailified to be speking about DO medicine. It is also clear that Treybird must feel pretty inadequate himself if as a chiro he comes to a pre-physician forum or is a pre-med or med student using insults to make a point that justifies his mistakes of the past.
 
jimdo-
maybe you should read the whole thread....I know it'll take you a while since we've all been bickering for months. Trey clearly stated (pages ago) that he wants to do everything for his patients, which is why he is going back. He recognizes the limitations of the DC degree, but he's not going to stop doing adjustments b/c they work. Please get your facts straight, you were complaining b/c of judgements made on you before anyone knew what you were about, so extend the same courtesy. Besides, I hate playing catch up!
:)
 
Oh my, seems we hit a raw nerve. First off, I love healthcare in general. I feel that the contributions made by Chiropractors are just as legitimate as those made by DO's of MD's, albeit different. The core of Osteopathic philosophy is similar to that of Chiropractic, regardless of what DO's do now. If you don't see it that way, then go read the early text by Dr. Still. I will be attending DO school in Aug, not b/c I hate CHiropractic but because the things I want to do in healthcare, such as join the military, can't be done as a Chiro right now. Osteopathy is the closest to Chiropractic in philosophy, hence my choosing that field. I can still use Chiropractic as a DO, I'll just call it OMM instead.

You are self-hating becuase you incessantly feel the need to try and accentuate what Chiropractors can't do instead of what we can and do do. It must give you a sense of pride to slam Chiropractors. How do I know this? From your first post. Not constructive, just condescending maximus. I've never slammed DO's b/c of what they do, so why should you slam us? How about talking about how we can both benefit the patient in healthcare? That would be the mature way to approach this subject. Did you choose to discuss this issue? No, you choose to make some snotty, smart-ass remark. Go have a valium and relax. Stop taking yourself so seriously and just chill.
 
I see that the value judgements are still continuing here. Still being referred to a self hating because I dont buy into the chiropractic propaganda which is little more than self justification. My first post was, by the way, simple exasperation at something that is a constant illogical comparison. Let us remember that this is a pre-DO forum where people come for information of Osteopathic medicine that plan to enter the field. It is important that they receive fatcs about being a DO
As for taking myself seriously, I admit that I do take my career seriously. Im sorry that you do not seem to share this devotion to the field. I do not take myself that seriously and I really dont know how that has come across to you. I congratulate you for entrance to into medical school. However, be careful not to use medical school to be able to justify something that is not accepted otherwise (ie in the military and ultimately society). If you want to be a chiropractor...fine thats your choice. Stick with it. Dont use osteopathic medicine as a means to reap the rewards of being a physician (something chiropractic cannot offer) while continuing to practice as a chiropractor. Thats simply getting something in the back door which wont fit through the front door.
I applaud your devotion to your chiropractic profession. I have known other chiropractors, and have discussed the two fields at length respectfully. I have lashed out here out of response to a commment that was justifiably perceived as being an unjustified personal attack. I have learned a great deal about the history of the DO throughout my training. As you will find out in medical school, that is taught. You will also learn that OMM and chiropractice is not the same. I do not agree that OMM = chiropractic technique as it seems is implied in your post. I hope that the differences become apparent to you as you progress through your training.
Jen, I am sorry but Im not going to read all of through the posts. I certainly understand your wish not to play catch up. I came in here originally to inject some of my experience in the field, but got caught up in a shouting match.
Believe it or not, I am more than willing to answer questions and offer my experience to those that read this thread. I ask for a little maturity and that the name calling and personal attacks stop here and now. If that can be done, I will answer anything that is posed. I assume most people here are not yet medical students. It is a tough road and one in which your impressions will certainly change. I know that mine did and continue to change. Sometimes, the words of those who have already gone through it can be valuable, they certainly were for me.
 
By the way, I find it hard to believe that you actually want to discuss something maturely when comments like "just another self-hating DO" and small man complex" are thrown around ad nauseum. If my "condescending maximus" is offensive and you believe that we should focus on what chiros can do instead of can't, why decide to abandon chiropractic in order to practice medicine. If chiropractic is justifiable, why the need to enter medical school in order to practice something in which you are already proficient? It ought to be a clue that you cannot do what you want to do in chiropractic and that you need to enter medical school to justify practice as a chiropractor. Cant you see how inappropriate and offensive it can be to use one profession to justify onself and the limitations of another??
 
I REALLY don't think that just because one is trying to expand their avenues in education that they are abandoning what they have learned in order to leard the "real" profession. Talk about insulting! DC's don't view DO's as possessing any "more" skill, just different skills. I appreciate your willingness to share your experience with the rest of us, but your condescending tone is more than apperant.
 
P.S. Trey here is not the norm. Many other chiropractors do a fine job of justifying the profession jut through everyday practice, as I'm sure Trey has done as well. Chiropractic justifies itself if you can get past the nutjobs that tend to (and incorrectly so) represent the profession. The reason chiros can be compared (and contrasted) to DOs, MDs and everyone else is that DC's are healthcare providers whether you think so or not. I think this is very valid info for any pre-DO, as we all have to work with all kinds of doctors. It's good to know that a relaible DC can help you should you need it. Yes, you learn a lot in med school, and opinions often change, but it's best to keep an open mind.
 
Well, JimDO, everyone has certainly seen how you feel about things. There's really no point in trying to have a discussion with you. If you feel that I am abadnoning my profession, so be it. I know what my motivations are and where I stand on things and that's all that matters to me. Jen has pretty much tried to explain things to you and you choose to ignore what she is saying so good luck in med school.
 
I see that this thread has disintegrated into something unfortunate. For my role in that I apologize. Good luck to you in whatever endeavors you choose.
 
No worries, this thread has been uglier before this....
 
JenMac
I respect your ability to disagree respectfully. Thank you.
 
Your welcome! My boyfriend and I get into these types of disagreements all the time, so I get practice! <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />
 
wow! the fun just never ends-maybe someone could refer jimdo to my post a few pages back-I find it hard to believe he/she is who they say they are...I think trey bird deserves an award for still wanting a do degree...but in all fairness trey bird (pardon the psycho-analysis [sic]) I think you enjoy those sparring matches? Even though you were instigated, I think you enjoy this type of thread quite a bit-what do you think?
 
Hey macman,

I'm from Jersey, what can I say? I like to debate but I don't like pissing contests, even though it seems to get to that at times. You wanna a pizza wit' dat??
 
In all honesty, I was interested in this thread b/c I figured there would be an informative Q & A regarding the differences and similarities between chiros and DO's. I thought I could give some testimony to my experiences in healthcare and how I plan to make my crossover into osteopathy, which I consider a close relative of Chiropractic. Instead, what Jen and I got were massive attacks on how Chiropractic shouldn't exist and how we shouldn't even have the responsibility of a towel boy (or girl), none of which was based on any credible understanding of our education or training.

There have been a few DO students or perspective Chiro students who have asked honest questions and been supportive. That's when we've had very good discussions that were not pissing contests. But, every once in awhile, someone has to come from the shadows with some kind of attack and disappear....not discuss with an open mind, just attack.

I plan on supporting osteopathy with as much gusto as I do Chiropractic. If manipulation works for DC's then I assume it works just as well for DO's.
 
Posted Previously
"Chiropractic justifies itself if you can get past the nutjobs that tend to (and incorrectly so) represent the profession."

:) Something to think about :)
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by macman:
•...I think trey bird deserves an award for still wanting a do degree...•••••I agree. Talk about dedication to learning!

I really like this thread too. Maybe it's because in real life, I am really laid back...but some people who have posted here have the ability to push my buttons and get me fired up! AND, it's very interesting to see others perspectives...its very educational as I move toward my DC, it gives me a peek and what I may have to work with as a working professional.

macman, where are you going/do you go to school for your DO?
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Jersey Girl:
•Posted Previously
"Chiropractic justifies itself if you can get past the nutjobs that tend to (and incorrectly so) represent the profession."

:) Something to think about :) •••••I think this is true for all professions, not just Chiropractic. We've all seen our share of nutjob MD's, PT's, DO's, etc. Nice to know you still check in once in awhile Jersey Girl. It's kind of like Jerry Springer, you don't want to watch but you just can't turn away.
 
I think it's a different Jersey Girl.....
 
Macman
I am amazed that after I had let the disagreement end that you would come in with some inflammatory remarks to try to reinstigate a heated disagreement. First you insult me and then my profession. Frankly, it doesnt mater if you dont think Im who I say that I am. Secondly, dont insult my profession simply because you want to stir up the embers. Many devote their lives with nobility to it and couldnt care less whether your surprised Treybird still wants the degree. You can think whatever you will of me, but by insulting the profession you insult Treybird because he has devoted himself to the goal of being a physician, and every other DO that has struggled to become a physician. Think whatever of me, but at least have enough decency and respect not to insult something that so many have studied.

Oh, and by the way, I have no interest in reading your posts. I doubt Id find much there of quality and its just not worth my time to get into any further discussion with you.

.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by jimdo:
Macman
I am amazed that after I had let the disagreement end that you would come in with some inflammatory remarks to try to reinstigate a heated disagreement. •First you insult me and then my profession.• Frankly, it doesnt mater if you dont think Im who I say that I am. Secondly, dont insult my profession simply because you want to stir up the embers. Many devote their lives with nobility to it and couldnt care less whether your surprised Treybird still wants the degree. You can think whatever you will of me, but by insulting the profession you insult Treybird because he has devoted himself to the goal of being a physician, and every other DO that has struggled to become a physician. Think whatever of me, but at least have enough decency and respect not to insult something that so many have studied.

Oh, and by the way, I have no interest in reading your posts. I doubt Id find much there of quality and its just not worth my time to get into any further discussion with you.

••••:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Lost me on that one too, Jen. Feel the wrath.
 
Treybird, just a quick non-flamebait question. In your experience, what would you say is the majority of DC's opinions on childhood vaccinations? The reason I ask is that I see this on almost every website critical of chiropractic.
Thanks
 
Time to bow out of this room. I can hear the quacks now in every direction. But, I suppose its just my "wrath" acting up again. Good luck to you all.
 
jimdo - I was just wondering why you thought macman was cutting down DO's when that's what he is going to school for.....that's why I was confused....
As for vaccinations....(even though you didn't ask me :) ) I think that is not something you can attribute to the majority of chiropractors. Everyone has a different opinion. DC's have definitely gotten a bad rap for being the ones to encourage people not to get them though. And I know people who haven't had them and are just fine....however, I think they were able to be just fine because everyone else got them! (Group immunity). I'm just going to give my patients all the information and let them make an informed decision. But saying that all chiropractors hold the same opinion that is anti-vaccination is not right. Saying that we have the same opinion an anything isn't right! he he he This is part of how we can be our own worst enemy.
 
Chiropractic philosophy is rooted in the idea that the human body, under ideal circumstances, should be able to defend and repair itself. Ideal circumstances being that the nervous system can function uninterrupted. The body has evlolved over thousands of years to survive it's surroundings, and that includes bacterial infections, etc.

Now, that is where we were at one point. Do I agree with this? No, nor do most of my friends that I graduated with. However, there are older sects and traditional sects of Chiros that still follow this tenet and put a lot of faith in the body's ability to heal itself. Like Jen said, I don't think that most Chiros are against vaccinations, but they want their patients to be informed about the risks. Not all vaccinations are safe and people have to recognize which ones are and which ones aren't.
 
Treybird.

Which vaccinations would you think are unsafe and which ones are safe?
 
I think that you have to be careful with vaccinations that use weakened, but living, strains of the disease rather than dead material. How about you PAC?

Here is an excellent page regarding Chiropractic education including a comparison of hours between med school and Chiro school. (Tables 9 & 10 near the bottom of the page). Let's just say that Chiros are certainly well-educated in their field, regardless of the overall opinion in this forum.

<a href="http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/ahcpr/chapter3.htm" target="_blank">http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/ahcpr/chapter3.htm</a>
 
Where did everyone go??
 
I don't know....but I like that link you posted up there, Trey Very nice. I think it hammers home the "not better, but different" argument quite nicely.
And I just wanted to give a shout out "quack" to jimdo....I know you're still out there buddy....
<img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />
(I hope you all know I'm so kidding!!!)
Later gators
 
Hey Jen,

Thanks. Isn't that a great webpage?? I wonder how many people in this forum will actually check it out. Where did PacMatt go? He asked a question and then disappeared. Getting ready for your new school yet??

TB

P.S. QUACK! QUACK!
Damn, those pesky ducks. Watch out for duck poo.
 
NICE TOUCH!!
 
There he is....I knew you'd still follow this jimdo....it's too addicting. :wink:
Trey, yep, getting ready for the big move.
I dunno where everyone went. Maybe you answered all the questions....
Are you getting ready for your new school? Have you let your patients know yet?
 
Hey Jen. Yea, I guess everybody went home. Too bad too because that website I posted dispels alot of the misinformation in this forum. Oh well. Hey jimdo, just in case you're watching, and Jersey Girl too.

Getting ready to start my life as a DO. I've contacted all my patients and lined up another doc to take my place. Now all I have to do is get Lori and the kids (our two pomeranians) there.

TB
 
OR, maybe everyone is just sick of us. Ah well, that was fun. Thanks for sticking in there and helping me dispel myths, and maybe, just maybe make some people consider that what they have thought all this time was outdated. Good luck at KCOM...I'm sure you're gonna be an awesome DO!
JM

P.S. Your kids are two pomeranians? <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />
 
Hey Jen,

Well, it's been a fun ride. Keep checking in though. Someone usually jumps in from nowhere with a comment. Good luck in school and feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions or need some info. Yea, my two kids are Pomeranians (Jasmine (Jazz) and Dakota (Cody)). Trust me, they're a handful.

TB
 
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