ortho attending AMA

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Thank you for your reply. For a better match possibility, would you advise to have a more genenral ortho experience rather than more specific types (spine only per say)? I would see that this could vary on the type of app, ppl you know etc but was curious to hear from an attending in the academia.

You mean for match into residency? It doesn’t really matter if general or specialty. What matters are your step scores and letters.


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[OrthoTraumaMD]

How is the lifestyle for Ortho after graduation? I shadowed an ortho who saw patients 3 days a week and performed surgery 2 days of the week. How common is this?

It very much depends on the type of practice, the subspecialty, and the individual needs of the physician. I would say on average most surgeons are in the operating room 2 to 3 days a week and in clinic the other days. But others have very different schedules. I, for example, am in clinic only once a week, surgery three times a week, and one administrative day.


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[bonemann]

@OrthoTraumaMD
will the advent of autonomous cars and a smart grid essentially destroy the 'market' for ortho trauma?
I've heard others talk about how once the above is implemented, motor vehicle accident rates will theoretically go down drastically (once the kinks are smoothed out i guess haha)
im really interested in trauma but worried that it isn't very future-proof like sports or joints are

 

[DarkHorizon]

@OrthoTraumaMD
will the advent of autonomous cars and a smart grid essentially destroy the 'market' for ortho trauma?
I've heard others talk about how once the above is implemented, motor vehicle accident rates will theoretically go down drastically (once the kinks are smoothed out i guess haha)
im really interested in trauma but worried that it isn't very future-proof like sports or joints are

Don’t underestimate the human species. Trauma is not a random disease. You’ll always have broken bones.

OTOH, sports magic has very little evidence behind it. Most of it is voodoo, and once someone figures out how to regenerate hyaline cartilage, they’ll be out of business. Them, and joints guys. (Half serious)

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

@OrthoTraumaMD
will the advent of autonomous cars and a smart grid essentially destroy the 'market' for ortho trauma?
I've heard others talk about how once the above is implemented, motor vehicle accident rates will theoretically go down drastically (once the kinks are smoothed out i guess haha)
im really interested in trauma but worried that it isn't very future-proof like sports or joints are

No.
Even if every car were removed from the road, so many other stupid people are out there keeping me in business. Not to mention hip fractures. Population gets older, my geriatric practice just keeps on growing... older and fatter...


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[Govols22]

It very much depends on the type of practice, the subspecialty, and the individual needs of the physician. I would say on average most surgeons are in the operating room 2 to 3 days a week and in clinic the other days. But others have very different schedules. I, for example, am in clinic only once a week, surgery three times a week, and one administrative day.


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What time usually do most surgeons including yourself wake up and go home on operating days and clinic days?

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

What time usually do most surgeons including yourself wake up and go home on operating days and clinic days?

Again very dependent on subspecialty and type of practice. There is no “typical.”

I wake up 530-6am depending on what is going on, at work 630am, and leave when the work is done. Sometimes it’s 2 pm, sometimes it’s 11pm. Clinic days for me are 8-5 typically.
My elective partners are 630am-5pm ish OR days, 8-5 clinic.


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[CyrusHabs7695]

Again very dependent on subspecialty and type of practice. There is no “typical.”

I wake up 530-6am depending on what is going on, at work 630am, and leave when the work is done. Sometimes it’s 2 pm, sometimes it’s 11pm. Clinic days for me are 8-5 typically.
My elective partners are 630am-5pm ish OR days, 8-5 clinic.


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Im sure it varies alot, but of the spine specialists you know, what are their typical hours per week? Ive read on some sites that they have a pretty good schedule and Ive also read that they have a lot of calls in the middle of the night.


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[OrthoTraumaMD]

Im sure it varies alot, but of the spine specialists you know, what are their typical hours per week? Ive read on some sites that they have a pretty good schedule and Ive also read that they have a lot of calls in the middle of the night.


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Again ...depends on practice style. Many I know have basic 8-5 hours, with longer time on surgery days. Call depends on who you have helping you. If you have residents and fellows, you’re not coming in at night unless you need to operate. In my five years of residency, I’ve seen a spine surgeon come in emergently maybe once or twice on an actual spine related issue...and even that was for his own postop patient. Spine call is also typically shared by ortho and neurosurgery in big centers. Again, it varies a lot.


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[Govols22]

Thanks for the feedback and answering questions!

I have been back and forth between PM & R and Ortho due to my interest in MSK anatomy and physiology. I have a lot of interests outside of medicine, and the idea of going into surgery scares me as I hear it selects for a special breed who’s life revolves around the OR. PM&R screams a field that I can enjoy with a fantastic lifestyle. Ortho screams a field that I may enjoy possibly even more but having to some aspects of my life.

In your opinion is it possible to go into ortho and have a “relatively” laid back lifestyle?

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Thanks for the feedback and answering questions!

I have been back and forth between PM & R and Ortho due to my interest in MSK anatomy and physiology. I have a lot of interests outside of medicine, and the idea of going into surgery scares me as I hear it selects for a special breed who’s life revolves around the OR. PM&R screams a field that I can enjoy with a fantastic lifestyle. Ortho screams a field that I may enjoy possibly even more but having to some aspects of my life.

In your opinion is it possible to go into ortho and have a “relatively” laid back lifestyle?

Yes, but not as common; pm&r definitely makes it easier. Based on what you are saying, it sounds like pm&r be the better choice for you. If you are torn between a surgical specialty and a nonsurgical one, don’t pick the surgical one as the lifestyle is typically much worse regardless of what you do.


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[VincentAdultman]

Thanks for the feedback and answering questions!

I have been back and forth between PM & R and Ortho due to my interest in MSK anatomy and physiology. I have a lot of interests outside of medicine, and the idea of going into surgery scares me as I hear it selects for a special breed who’s life revolves around the OR. PM&R screams a field that I can enjoy with a fantastic lifestyle. Ortho screams a field that I may enjoy possibly even more but having to some aspects of my life.

In your opinion is it possible to go into ortho and have a “relatively” laid back lifestyle?

If you’d be fine with not operating ever, then PMR is probably the way to go (and even then there’s some procedural stuff you can do through PMR).

 

[Govols22]

Yes, but not as common; pm&r definitely makes it easier. Based on what you are saying, it sounds like pm&r be the better choice for you. If you are torn between a surgical specialty and a nonsurgical one, don’t pick the surgical one as the lifestyle is typically much worse regardless of what you do.


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There are aspects of surgery that I genuinely do enjoy and I wouldn’t consider this if I wasn’t interested in the surgery aspect. The only downside is the fear that I won’t have time for anything else in life, but I realize if I enjoy what I’m doing then it doesn’t matter. In the end I feel like I would enjoy my job slightly more as an Orthopedic surgeon than as a PM&R doctor. For that reason alone it would make sense to strive for ortho over PM&R right? I know ortho won’t give that same lifestyle, but surely I could still go to the gym, come home, and enjoy football on the weekends?

 

[Govols22]

If you’d be fine with not operating ever, then PMR is probably the way to go (and even then there’s some procedural stuff you can do through PMR).

I could live my life without operating, but I feel like I would enjoy time spent operating in ortho far more than doing procedures in PM&R. I enjoy PM&R don’t get me wrong, it’s just that I feel like a part of me wants to do ortho but I’m just so intimidated by the hours and competitiveness.

 

[ceilingfan019]

but surely I could still go to the gym, come home, and enjoy football on the weekends?

These are the things that you're concerned about having to give up?

I have met orthopaedic surgeons who have told me personal stories about not attending funerals of close friends or family because of their responsibilities.

 

[DarkHorizon]

I could live my life without operating, but I feel like I would enjoy time spent operating in ortho far more than doing procedures in PM&R. I enjoy PM&R don’t get me wrong, it’s just that I feel like a part of me wants to do ortho but I’m just so intimidated by the hours and competitiveness.

Sounds like you really wanna do PM&R and just putting ortho on a pedestal because it sounds sexy. There’d be no doubt in your mind if you wanted to do ortho, IMO.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Sounds like you really wanna do PM&R and just putting ortho on a pedestal because it sounds sexy. There’d be no doubt in your mind if you wanted to do ortho, IMO.

Everyone has doubts at some point I think. I had doubts as well, and quite a few, before I decided on ortho over vascular. The more telling part is the statement by @Govols22 “I could live my life without operating.” That right there means PM&R. The only way to do surgery is to know you’d never be happy unless you were in the operating room.


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[OrthoTraumaMD]

These are the things that you're concerned about having to give up?

I have met orthopaedic surgeons who have told me personal stories about not attending funerals of close friends or family because of their responsibilities.

In residency, sure. As an attending your life is more or less “normal.” Yes of course there are exceptions, such as call, and as I state earlier in my AMA, I work a lot....but mostly my weekends are my own, etc.


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[Govols22]

Everyone has doubts at some point I think. I had doubts as well, and quite a few, before I decided on ortho over vascular. The more telling part is the statement by @Govols22 “I could live my life without operating.” That right there means PM&R. The only way to do surgery is to know you’d never be happy unless you were in the operating room.


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Thank you for your help. I suppose I will know more once I get more exposure in the OR. I was never like some people who were passionate about surgery day 1 before any exposure because they “liked cutting stuff up”, but maybe I’ll realize how much I would enjoy surgery once I learn what makes surgery truly special. I really enjoy the instant gratification and immediate results you see a lot of the time with ortho, and I feel PM&R is quite the opposite when it comes to that. I genuinely think I would enjoy ortho more than PM&R. I find the idea of surgery itself to be exciting in general, and when I said I could live without surgery, it was more along the lines that surgery wasn’t originally my first passion, but that’s due to my lack of exposure and fear more than anything. I’m still young and naive and looking for advice.

What aspects of surgery truly make it special for you?

 

[ceilingfan019]

your life is more or less “normal.”

I think your quotations are very telling. Because normal to most people would probably mean something like 9 am-5pm work and going home to enjoy the rest of your day (catch up on news, sports etc).

I was never like some people who were passionate about surgery day 1 before any exposure because they “liked cutting stuff up”, but maybe I’ll realize how much I would enjoy surgery once I learn what makes surgery truly special. I really enjoy the instant gratification and immediate results you see a lot of the time with ortho, and I feel PM&R is quite the opposite when it comes to that. I genuinely think I would enjoy ortho more than PM&R.

It sounds like you haven't done your clinical rotations yet, but who are these people excited to "cut stuff up" day 1 before any surgical exposure? I'd be cautious around those people.

Rotate with PM&R and ortho and see which you can see yourself doing.

 

[Allfreeclear14]

I think you have mentioned that you could see spine being of its own residency specialty one day. I am curious if you see brighter future in spine as a neurosurgeon or an orthopedic surgeon. Thank you in advance

 

[canadienflames]

@OrthoTraumaMD

What are your thoughts on integrated clerkships that some schools have compared to the traditional rotations based clerkships? Are there any advantages or disadvantages to doing one or the other for ortho?

Thank you!

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

What aspects of surgery truly make it special for you?

Read my other post I started called “it’s worth it.” (Don’t know how to link to it but I’ve started only 3 threads and that is one of them.)


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[OrthoTraumaMD]

I think your quotations are very telling. Because normal to most people would probably mean something like 9 am-5pm work and going home to enjoy the rest of your day (catch up on news, sports etc).


It sounds like you haven't done your clinical rotations yet, but who are these people excited to "cut stuff up" day 1 before any surgical exposure? I'd be cautious around those people.

I was one of those people. Always knew I would be surgeon, no question.

As for the quotations, that’s because it is impossible to have a normal life 24/7 if you take call. And most surgeons do as part of their practice. So I can go home and have a good time, but if I’m on call I might be called in. You can’t leave your work “at work” all the time.


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[OrthoTraumaMD]

I think you have mentioned that you could see spine being of its own residency specialty one day. I am curious if you see brighter future in spine as a neurosurgeon or an orthopedic surgeon. Thank you in advance

No opinion because I hate spine. I think you do neuro if you like brains and ortho if you like bones. And I don’t recall mentioning it being its own residency....


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[OrthoTraumaMD]

@OrthoTraumaMD

What are your thoughts on integrated clerkships that some schools have compared to the traditional rotations based clerkships? Are there any advantages or disadvantages to doing one or the other for ortho?

Thank you!

I don’t like them because you don’t have true continuity of care. I would like students to stay with me and go with me everywhere for 3 months. If they are with me once a week they don’t really see what my practice is like.


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[mimelim]

Everyone has doubts at some point I think. I had doubts as well, and quite a few, before I decided on ortho over vascular. The more telling part is the statement by @Govols22 “I could live my life without operating.” That right there means PM&R. The only way to do surgery is to know you’d never be happy unless you were in the operating room.


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I disagree. I could easily live my life without operating. I can imagine being just as happy doing several other things.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I disagree. I could easily live my life without operating. I can imagine being just as happy doing several other things.

I think you may be an exception to the usual rule...


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[Nikj]

I disagree. I could easily live my life without operating. I can imagine being just as happy doing several other things.

Doesn't Vascular work like 168 hours a week? Pretty understandable.

 

[mimelim]

I think you may be an exception to the usual rule...


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I understand the sentiment and have said it myself on here and in person. There are easier pathways to money, prestige, happiness, etc. But, not for everyone. If you enjoy operating, surgery is worth exploring. But, as with everything, absolutes are dangerous. This goes for anything. If there is only one thing that can possibly make you happy, you haven't seen enough of the world.

Doesn't Vascular work like 168 hours a week? Pretty understandable.

This has little to nothing to do with my sub-specialty. I determine the hours that I work. Within every specialty the range is massive.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I understand the sentiment and have said it myself on here and in person. There are easier pathways to money, prestige, happiness, etc. But, not for everyone. If you enjoy operating, surgery is worth exploring. But, as with everything, absolutes are dangerous. This goes for anything. If there is only one thing that can possibly make you happy, you haven't seen enough of the world

I don’t disagree necessarily. I think maybe outside of medicine there are a few things I would enjoy doing. But within medicine i feel like if you don’t like the OR, you shouldn’t be a surgeon because the path is simply too difficult and requires too much sacrifice to survive and thrive if you don’t like operating.


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[bonemann]

I can definitely live without going into the OR again and could be reasonably happy, but i dont think thats good enough. I WANT to operate.
I hope that's 'good enough' in terms of being passionate about surgery.

@OrthoTraumaMD can the typical trauma patients make the job itself less rewarding? a hand surgeon was telling me how most of the cases involve alcohol, drugs, law-breaking, or extreme stupidity, and I wonder it that would lead to burnout even if the surgery itself would be satisfying

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I can definitely live without going into the OR again and could be reasonably happy, but i dont think thats good enough. I WANT to operate.
I hope that's 'good enough' in terms of being passionate about surgery.

@OrthoTraumaMD can the typical trauma patients make the job itself less rewarding? a hand surgeon was telling me how most of the cases involve alcohol, drugs, law-breaking, or extreme stupidity, and I wonder it that would lead to burnout even if the surgery itself would be satisfying

Oh definitely. My patients are challenging. But look at it this way... I didn’t make them stupid, or obese, or drug users. And I didn’t break their bones. All I can do is my best, and explain to them that they also play a role in their recovery and outcome. Most understand. And if they don’t, or they ignore me, that’s on them.


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[Bones Bones Bones]

MS4 submitting ERAS app this week...is it a red flag to not submit a home program letter to all programs? I have one, but I don't think it's as strong as my letters from aways/research year. My other letters are also from top programs unlike my home program. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks!

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

MS4 submitting ERAS app this week...is it a red flag to not submit a home program letter to all programs? I have one, but I don't think it's as strong as my letters from aways/research year. My other letters are also from top programs unlike my home program. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks!

You can’t submit all of them? I don’t know the answer for sure as I usually see the letters from the home program, but if your others really are that strong then go for it.


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[Bones Bones Bones]

You can’t submit all of them? I don’t know the answer for sure as I usually see the letters from the home program, but if your others really are that strong then go for it.
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I just have a gut feeling that my home program letter is mediocre, but I know for a fact that my other 4 letters are strong. Freaking out over here about what to do haha.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I just have a gut feeling that my home program letter is mediocre, but I know for a fact that my other 4 letters are strong. Freaking out over here about what to do haha.

Trust your gut feeling.


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[OrthoTraumaMD]

So here’s a question of my own about stereotypes.
What is it with everyone thinking we are gym crazy? I’ve seen other surgical specialties work out just as much. True, we had gym bros in residency, but most of the orthopods I know are either runners or work out occasionally, like most people. And yet there is this pervasive view of us as bodybuilders.
(Personally, I have a very physical job and I work out mostly to be able to do it; I got tired of spraining things when reducing fractures or dislocations so that’s why I started going to the gym. But it’s mostly cardio and some strengthening, nothing insane.)


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[Govols22]

So here’s a question of my own about stereotypes.
What is it with everyone thinking we are gym crazy? I’ve seen other surgical specialties work out just as much. True, we had gym bros in residency, but most of the orthopods I know are either runners or work out occasionally, like most people. And yet there is this pervasive view of us as bodybuilders.
(Personally, I have a very physical job and I work out mostly to be able to do it; I got tired of spraining things when reducing fractures or dislocations so that’s why I started going to the gym. But it’s mostly cardio and some strengthening, nothing insane.)


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I think it’s a combination between the fact that most orthopods are males, and that most ortho’s generally have a unique interest in MSK.

 

[lagbydesign]

So here’s a question of my own about stereotypes.
What is it with everyone thinking we are gym crazy? I’ve seen other surgical specialties work out just as much. True, we had gym bros in residency, but most of the orthopods I know are either runners or work out occasionally, like most people. And yet there is this pervasive view of us as bodybuilders.
(Personally, I have a very physical job and I work out mostly to be able to do it; I got tired of spraining things when reducing fractures or dislocations so that’s why I started going to the gym. But it’s mostly cardio and some strengthening, nothing insane.)


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I agree with the poster above me. I also think that because so many orthopods come from a sports background, they are much more likely to be avid gym goers than the average non-sports person. I can easily see a love of MSK coming at least somewhat from many hours in the gym. From my own experience, trying to maximize strength and muscle size, you have to learn about leverages and you have to think about exercise selection in relation to your own anthropometry. You have to learn what the most optimal positions are in order to stress the muscle that you are trying to strengthen/grow.

For example, if you want to give yourself the best leverage in a pull up, you should lean back slightly because that will provide a better line of pull for your lats. Another example is, depending on your body type, a certain type of squat may be more favorable/less dangerous. If you are tall and have long femurs, it is generally harder to have good form on a back squat just because of the way your body is set up. It is more likely to turn into a good morning, which is definitely a more risky exercise, especially if that is not what you are actually trying to do. Because of this, a front squat is often recommended as a good alternative, especially if you are trying to put a greater focus on the quads (this goes for anyone, btw).

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

most ortho’s generally have a unique interest in MSK.

Okay I get that, but so do rehab docs....and they’re not seen as gym bros...


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[VincentAdultman]

Okay I get that, but so do rehab docs....and they’re not seen as gym bros...


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There’s also a (misguided) perception that most reductions and surgeries require a lot of brute strength.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

There’s also a (misguided) perception that most reductions and surgeries require a lot of brute strength.

Yes! Very true.
Some things are definitely easier if you’re in shape, though....that’s why I work out six days a week. But I’m naturally thin, so remaining strong actually takes effort.


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[RocuROMANium]

So a couple of weeks ago I got to shadow an orthopaedic surgeon in the OR after I had volunteered/shadowed him in the clinic for a semester. He performed an ACL takedown (failed allograft from 20 years ago) and excised the patient's semitendinosis and gracillus tendon to use as an autograft. At the end of the surgery he was having difficulty securing the autograft because, apparently, one of the final screws he had to use was too short and large. Unfortunately, neither of us had much time to discuss what happened because I had to go to lab and he was late for his next case. All that he had time to tell me was that the screw and instrument set he used for the case was not his normal set because there were issues with the healthcare system providing him with the right screws and tools. He was definitely pissed off about it.

So my question to you is when you go to surgery who is responsible for allocating screws and instrument sets. Is it the healthcare system you work under, can you bring your own, or is it usually a rep's set? I know your'e a trauma surgeon and the surgeon I shadowed is pp/sports medicine orthopaedist but I was hoping you would have some insight to this issue.

 

[Govols22]

Okay I get that, but so do rehab docs....and they’re not seen as gym bros...


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True, but most people don’t know about PM&R to make stereotypes. PM&R also isn’t as male dominated.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

True, but most people don’t know about PM&R to make stereotypes. PM&R also isn’t as male dominated.

Is it? I don’t know... every PM and R doc I’ve ever met except one has been a guy. But I’m sure you’re right. Certainly ortho has the most males after CT surgery.


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[OrthoTraumaMD]

So a couple of weeks ago I got to shadow an orthopaedic surgeon in the OR after I had volunteered/shadowed him in the clinic for a semester. He performed an ACL takedown (failed allograft from 20 years ago) and excised the patient's semitendinosis and gracillus tendon to use as an autograft. At the end of the surgery he was having difficulty securing the autograft because, apparently, one of the final screws he had to use was too short and large. Unfortunately, neither of us had much time to discuss what happened because I had to go to lab and he was late for his next case. All that he had time to tell me was that the screw and instrument set he used for the case was not his normal set because there were issues with the healthcare system providing him with the right screws and tools. He was definitely pissed off about it.

So my question to you is when you go to surgery who is responsible for allocating screws and instrument sets. Is it the healthcare system you work under, can you bring your own, or is it usually a rep's set? I know your'e a trauma surgeon and the surgeon I shadowed is pp/sports medicine orthopaedist but I was hoping you would have some insight to this issue.

It depends on your practice. If you work for a hospital system like I do, you are often restricted in what you can use. For example, HSS is a synthes place when it comes to trauma. Sometimes, a hospital will force all the surgeons to use one company to save money (this is common in joints). But it varies. In my hospital I’m 80% one company and 20% others, so I can use what I want but sparingly. It all depends on the contracts your hospital has with the implant companies, and who offers things the cheapest. I’m not in private practice, but those of my friends who are seem to have more leeway in choosing whom they can use.

No surgeon has their “own” sets, we don’t have garages with screws in them. Everything is supplied by the companies/reps.

Fortunately most implants are comparable, with mild variations in style and technique. Surgeons are creatures of habit, so if I am used to one company I will generally continue to ask for it. But I also recognize the nuances and often use stuff from different companies depending on the fracture.

Your surgeon sounds like he was just having a grumpy day. His healthcare system is probably fine, maybe CPD just forgot to turn over his trays or something. Most private practice guys blow their lid when things aren’t perfect, because their time is money, unlike us salaried chumps


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[DarkHorizon]

It depends on your practice. If you work for a hospital system like I do, you are often restricted in what you can use. For example, HSS is a synthes place when it comes to trauma. Sometimes, a hospital will force all the surgeons to use one company to save money (this is common in joints). But it varies. In my hospital I’m 80% one company and 20% others, so I can use what I want but sparingly. It all depends on the contracts your hospital has with the implant companies, and who offers things the cheapest. I’m not in private practice, but those of my friends who are seem to have more leeway in choosing whom they can use.

No surgeon has their “own” sets, we don’t have garages with screws in them. Everything is supplied by the companies/reps.

Fortunately most implants are comparable, with mild variations in style and technique. Surgeons are creatures of habit, so if I am used to one company I will generally continue to ask for it. But I also recognize the nuances and often use stuff from different companies depending on the fracture.

Your surgeon sounds like he was just having a grumpy day. His healthcare system is probably fine, maybe CPD just forgot to turn over his trays or something. Most private practice guys blow their lid when things aren’t perfect, because their time is money, unlike us salaried chumps


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On a separate note, it’s interesting how every place has a different culture and attitudes about this. I am now about 2 months into fellowship, much different place than my residency. We were all synthes. May be did one or two gamma nails in my residency. It’s all Stryker here. Occasional S&N and Zimmer. You ask for some random synthes implant, they look at you like you just committed a cardinal sin.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

On a separate note, it’s interesting how every place has a different culture and attitudes about this. I am now about 2 months into fellowship, much different place than my residency. We were all synthes. May be did one or two gamma nails in my residency. It’s all Stryker here. Occasional S&N and Zimmer. You ask for some random synthes implant, they look at you like you just committed a cardinal sin.

Yep. My residency was all one system... and in fellowship, even mentioning that system would get you beat...or at least mocked. It all has to do with the director’s preferences. If he’s an AO guy, especially if high up...all Synthes, all the time.


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[Govols22]

Is it? I don’t know... every PM and R doc I’ve ever met except one has been a guy. But I’m sure you’re right. Certainly ortho has the most males after CT surgery.


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I was just basing it off of stats from Doximity from looking at the programs.