This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Hi! Thanks so much for opening this up for questions :) I'm currently in a situation where I could attend a reputable MD school that is connected with 2 ortho residencies, or I could attend a newer MD school that doesn't have much of a reputation nor connections to any ortho residencies. The only reason I'm considering the latter school is because my husband lives in the same city as that school, and if I go to the first school I'll be living ~1,000 miles from my husband for 2 years or so. Do you think where someone attends medical school (with concern to the school's reputation) is an important factor with matching to an orthopedic residency? Similarly, are medical schools that have an affiliated ortho residencies significantly better for helping students match to those ortho residencies? Thanks!

Having a school connected to a residency is better, yes. But it’s not impossible to match from a different school either. You have to talk to your husband and decide if long distance is possible or not. It may seem doable... but two years is a long time. No one can make the call but you.

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Having a school connected to a residency is better, yes. But it’s not impossible to match from a different school either. You have to talk to your husband and decide if long distance is possible or not. It may seem doable... but two years is a long time. No one can make the call but you.
Thanks for the feedback! I'll definitely take that into consideration.
 
Have you ever seen anyone lose their balance trying to reduce a hip (or any dislocation, for that matter)?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Are you able to give an estimate of the percentage of poor, acceptable, and good outcomes that a traumatologist might experience? Granted, these numbers would change depending on the type and complexity of cases, which probably has a lot to do with location and special interest.
 
Are you able to give an estimate of the percentage of poor, acceptable, and good outcomes that a traumatologist might experience? Granted, these numbers would change depending on the type and complexity of cases, which probably has a lot to do with location and special interest.

This is a very vague/broad question. There are studies on most fractures and their outcomes. You can quote those numbers as an estimate but every patient is different. Also, what is good/acceptabl/poor is also subjective. Are we talking clinically or just radiographic evidence?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
This is a very vague/broad question. There are studies on most fractures and their outcomes. You can quote those numbers as an estimate but every patient is different. Also, what is good/acceptabl/poor is also subjective. Are we talking clinically or just radiographic evidence?

I figured that it might be too broad. I'm really asking for comparison's sake. Like looking at the various subspecialties, joints seems to have reliably good outcomes, while something like onc or trauma might have a lot of variation.
 
I figured that it might be too broad. I'm really asking for comparison's sake. Like looking at the various subspecialties, joints seems to have reliably good outcomes, while something like onc or trauma might have a lot of variation.

Very variable depending on what type of injury, as well as type of patients you have. Trauma patient at HSS aren’t the same as trauma patients in Harlem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
@OrthoTraumaMD Thank you for answering so many of our questions.

1) What are some of the things you'd expect interns to know on their first day?
2) What is the reputation of Albert Einstein Montefiore program (confirmable or not, what you've heard or know about it)?
 
I figured that it might be too broad. I'm really asking for comparison's sake. Like looking at the various subspecialties, joints seems to have reliably good outcomes, while something like onc or trauma might have a lot of variation.

There’s quite a bit of selection bias when it comes to joints patients, keep that in mind. Joints patients at county hospitals don’t have as good outcomes as patients coming out of high volume joints practices. Most of those outcome studies are done at high volume centers.

Also, trauma isn’t a random disease, therefore, statistics from outcome studies can’t be applied to all the patients uniformly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
@OrthoTraumaMD Thank you for answering so many of our questions.

1) What are some of the things you'd expect interns to know on their first day?
2) What is the reputation of Albert Einstein Montefiore program (confirmable or not, what you've heard or know about it)?

1) the patients on the list, DVT prophylaxis, how to change a dressing, and if they go to the OR, the basics of the surgical approach. Unfortunately most interns are floor based and don’t get to operate too often (program dependent as well).
2) used to be malignant, now ok per the things I’ve heard. really dingy hospitals though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Thanks so much for doing this!

I guess this applies more so to orthopedics than other types of surgery (please correct me if I'm wrong), but are you ever scared of your hands getting extremely injured during an operation (e.g. if one of the tools you're using chops off a finger or something), and if something like that were to happen would a person's career essentially end? Going off of that, is fear of blood-borne diseases such as HIV something you think about a lot?
 
As Mad-Eye Moody said, “constant vigilance!”
Great quote!! I have to admit I wasn’t a huge fan of him, though, seeing as he once helped capture and imprison my father. I will say that Fake Moody was actually one of the best Defense Against the Dark Arts professors I ever had, though I didn’t really appreciate it at the time—probably because he turned me into a ferret that once time...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
Members don't see this ad :)
came to say that I like the harry potter spin of the thread
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Great quote!! I have to admit I wasn’t a huge fan of him, though, seeing as he once helped capture and imprison my father. I will say that Fake Moody was actually one of the best Defense Against the Dark Arts professors I ever had, though I didn’t really appreciate it at the time—probably because he turned me into a ferret that once time...

Agreed. It’s sad that fake moody was the best professor, aside from lupin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I’m a pre-clinical medical student who started working with an ortho attending for research and was wondering if you had any insight on formulating a research idea for a retrospective chart review project. Could you offer any insight on how I can go about formulating an idea? I’ve been reading up on procedures and reading current literature regarding them but I’ve still had a tough time formulating a viable idea. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks
 
I’m a pre-clinical medical student who started working with an ortho attending for research and was wondering if you had any insight on formulating a research idea for a retrospective chart review project. Could you offer any insight on how I can go about formulating an idea? I’ve been reading up on procedures and reading current literature regarding them but I’ve still had a tough time formulating a viable idea. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

That’s basically it. It’s actually very hard to come up with an idea worth researching. That’s why our literature is mostly crap with a few gems. Unfortunately you won’t know what the good ideas are until you’re experienced in the field.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I was privately asked about backup specialties, so I’m posting my answer here, without mentioning the person’s name.

I have answered a similar question before in this thread, but the specific question I was asked today was essentially about how to “fool” the backup specialty into believing you. In this case, the person was clearly interested in orthopaedics, and was using radiology as a backup, but had not done any rotations in it and had no letters.

My answer:

That is tough. When you apply to your backup, you are essentially lying to them. Unfortunately, you have to play the game if you don’t want to risk not matching into anything.

Here’s the thing about backups. You have to be willing to do the actual backup. And not just “if I don’t match Ortho, I guess I’ll live with specialty X.” You should actually enjoy the specialty that is your backup, because there is a good chance you might end up in it. If you truly hate everything else, then go full speed for Ortho, because if you do not match, then your alternative specialty won’t really matter.

If you genuinely enjoy at least some part of Radiology, I would recommend that you do some kind of rotation in it, so that you can get a letter. Otherwise, they will pick up on the fact that you are likely using them as an alternative. When I dual applied, I had done a separate vascular surgery rotation, was published in vascular, and had a letter from a vascular surgeon. In other words, I had an entirely different set of letters and application materials for general surgery and for orthopaedics.

What you could potentially do is an elective in musculoskeletal radiology, so that you could still use it for ortho, or Radiology. That way it will not look too suspicious. You can always tell the Radiology people that you were considering ortho, but when you did your musculoskeletal radiology rotation, you changed your mind.

The similar question was mine actually! As someone who took your advice to heart way back when, I'd like to echo it. As a DO going into ortho, I knew it would be an uphill battle. Thankfully I made it, however I really had to convince myself that I would be okay with the backup specialty I applied into. I did my research, did the necessary rotation(s), and worked out a story as to why I was a late convert from orthopedics. It might seem grimy, but at the end of the day I would've been happy in the other specialty (albeit, not as happy) and I really wanted a job after medical school. At the end of the day you don't owe programs anything more than your professionalism and courtesy, because they can and will drop you for a better applicant despite any "promises" you may be given.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Another private message about matching at a low-ranked program, far away from home, and being upset because you were told someone you ranked higher would take you, and didn’t.

This was about Ortho, but it really applies to any match.

My answer:

“I matched at my 9th choice. Also far away from home. I am now on the national stage and got incredible opportunities that I wouldn’t have had at the other places. In fact, I wouldn’t have the success I have today if it weren’t for my program.

Trust the match. The program chose you as much as you chose it. It’s like dating—-you might be surprised at who is the best for you, and it might not be the person you have a crush on. And the people who said they wanted you and then didn’t take you are like the hot cheerleader —they always have someone else waiting in the wings and you can’t trust the promises they make haha. This will also happen in fellowship... happened to me too.

But don’t worry!! Look at it from the thousand-foot view. You’re gonna be an orthopaedic surgeon buddy. That’s a huge achievement that many will not get this match day.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
Thought it would be cool to get your thoughts on a case.

IMG_20190319_115059.jpg


Films
IMG_20190319_115123.jpg

IMG_20190319_115145.jpg



IMG_20190319_115207.jpg


If you were to use a spanning ex-fix, where would you put the pins?

What would your definitive treatment plan be?

I apologize if I'm not presenting the case well. Feel free to clarify.
 
Thought it would be cool to get your thoughts on a case.

View attachment 254494

Films
View attachment 254495
View attachment 254496


View attachment 254497

If you were to use a spanning ex-fix, where would you put the pins?

What would your definitive treatment plan be?

I apologize if I'm not presenting the case well. Feel free to clarify.

Are you trying to ask for homework help on a presentation? :)

There are many ways to answer this question. It depends on how long it would take me to close the fasciotomy. I might not even Exfix him but if I did, would be in the femur and calcaneus.

Definitive treatment, there is only one answer unless you are itching for an amputation from subsequent infection. I would nail it.

In future, please limit questions to something ortho related that doesn’t involve potential medical advice. I don’t want this thread closed down and I want to answer the types of questions that are actually helpful to everybody. Tx
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Are you trying to ask for homework help on a presentation? :)

There are many ways to answer this question. It depends on how long it would take me to close the fasciotomy. I might not even Exfix him but if I did, would be in the femur and calcaneus.

Definitive treatment, there is only one answer unless you are itching for an amputation from subsequent infection. I would nail it.

In future, please limit questions to something ortho related that doesn’t involve potential medical advice. I don’t want this thread closed down and I want to answer the types of questions that are actually helpful to everybody. Tx

It was actually from last year's Philadelphia Orthopaedic Trauma Symposium, and the moderator and someone on the panel were arguing over where they would put the pins in the ex-fix. The moderator preferred a pin in the shaft for stability and the panel member (and others) said it just wasn't necessary, that traveling traction would suffice.

Thanks for answering. I won't post something like this in the future.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
It was actually from last year's Philadelphia Trauma Symposium, and the moderator and someone on the panel were arguing over where they would put the pins in the ex-fix. The moderator preferred a pin in the shaft for stability and the panel member (and others) said it just wasn't necessary, that traveling traction would suffice.

Thanks for answering. I won't post something like this in the future.

If you put a pin in the shaft you run the risk of infection with the final construct. There is a reason it’s called “spanning”—you have to avoid the zone of injury. Or if you do put a pin, you must remove it within 2 weeks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Yes. Especially in trauma you are dealing with patients who have bloodborne illnesses, particularly in iv drug users. I generally assume everyone has hiv and hep c unless proven otherwise.

So there are a few points about this. Safety obviously is the first step, and knowledge is the best kind of safety. Know where the fracture fragments are—don’t stick hands where you can’t see. Don’t use double ended K wires. Always look at what your scrub is handing you, and what you are reaching for. Complacency is the enemy— if you stop paying attention, that is when you can get hurt. As Mad-Eye Moody said, “constant vigilance!”

There are also techniques we use to minimize potential injury. We don’t plunge with drills, we complete cuts using osteotomes instead of saws, etc. But even then, it’s always a risk. Especially if you’re not the one operating and the resident f—s something up. So you have to watch them as well. A surgeon in a hospital I worked in had an intern put a drill straight through his hand, like all the way through the palm a la Jesus on the cross. Patient had HIV. Surgeon was on antiretrovirals for months. That’s why I don’t let anyone operate unless I know they are careful. And even then, if I see them doing something that could potentially go wrong 3 steps ahead, I correct right then, or take over.

I’ve been injured multiple times —been stabbed by a careless attending with a hep C needle, by a scrub with a double ended K wire that was accidentally placed in the tray, and I’ve stabbed or poked myself with fracture fragments and needles. I’ve also inadvertently injured others when I was a resident. Double gloving takes care of minor things—if it gets both gloves, most of the blood is left on the glove and very little goes into your hand. But yes, it’s obviously worrying and I usually have the patient tested... a few times (when the patient had untreated hep C with high viral load) i have had myself tested for 6 months to ensure I didn’t get it. And during that time, I used condoms (protecting my husband) and didn’t donate blood just in case. (I also routinely take a hep c test yearly to make sure that I didn’t get infected from a poke or eye splash I didn’t notice, but I’m very OCD, and that’s probably unnecessary.) It’s stressful, but it’s a risk every surgeon must be prepared to take. Sometimes you must put your hands somewhere on a fracture that’s not super safe to get a good reduction. So you just have to be very careful and stay out of your instruments’ way.

And failing all that, I have several million dollars’ worth of hospital-based AND separate private disability insurance that I pay up the arse for. My hands and my eyes are my life, so I make sure if I cannot work, I’m more than covered, and can sit on my butt in my house in the South Caribbean for the rest of my life writing textbook chapters and drinking mojitos.


Thanks a bunch for the insights. The story about the surgeon who got his palm drilled sounds really scary, I hope he was okay!
 
Thanks a bunch for the insights. The story about the surgeon who got his palm drilled sounds really scary, I hope he was okay!

Yeah. But he had to take like six months of antiretrovirals, which make you incredibly sick.

My co-resident once stepped on a needle in the parking lot of our hospital. It went through her shoe. Our hospital has a long and storied history of IV drug abuse, so she was freaking out even though I kept trying to tell her that the HIV virus doesn’t survive for long outside the body. She ended up taking the meds anyway, and was really really sick.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I don't know what y'all eat in Orthopaedic, but almost every resident / fellow I've ever met are all hot. All of them always look like they belong in the Avengers. If only I wasn't engaged...
Us vascular are a little more diverse, lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I don't know what y'all eat in Orthopaedic, but almost every resident / fellow I've ever met are all hot. All of them always look like they belong in the Avengers. If only I wasn't engaged...
Us vascular are a little more diverse, lol.

LOL was there a question in there somewhere?

But you’re right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
@OrthoTraumaMD

How important is the "prestige" of a medical school for getting into orthopedic residencies? I am currently accepted to two medical schools: one close to home (California) that is Top-40 on News and World Reports and one that is Top-15 on News and World Report and has a Top-5 Residency Director score, but is in the Midwest. I would prefer to go to the school close to home because I think that I will do better there because it is closer to family, friends, and is located in a place that I am very comfortable. It is also 20K cheaper per year. My longterm goal is to get into an orthopedic residency in CA/TX/West Coast. I have gotten mixed reviews as to how important the prestige of your medical school is vs. the regional aspect of residency directors in a certain region knowing each other and trusting each others opinions about prospective medical students. I do already have a fair amount of orthopedics research from my gap years (handful of publications, abstracts, presentations).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
@OrthoTraumaMD

How important is the "prestige" of a medical school for getting into orthopedic residencies? I am currently accepted to two medical schools: one close to home (California) that is Top-40 on News and World Reports and one that is Top-15 on News and World Report and has a Top-5 Residency Director score, but is in the Midwest. I would prefer to go to the school close to home because I think that I will do better there because it is closer to family, friends, and is located in a place that I am very comfortable. It is also 20K cheaper per year. My longterm goal is to get into an orthopedic residency in CA/TX/West Coast. I have gotten mixed reviews as to how important the prestige of your medical school is vs. the regional aspect of residency directors in a certain region knowing each other and trusting each others opinions about prospective medical students. I do already have a fair amount of orthopedics research from my gap years (handful of publications, abstracts, presentations).

Prestige of med school is low on the list compared to step one, aoa, and research. Particularly if you want to stay west coast. Go with the Ca school, no question.

I would also caution you, as I do for everyone —don’t just be an ortho gunner. Med school is your chance to explore specialties— make use of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Do orthos ever collab with OMFS?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Not to my knowledge. we have two completely different areas of focus.
Follow up question, what are your thoughts on obgyn surgery skills? Why do people discuss this online?
 
Last edited:
Well tbh im curious because online I always hear surgical subspecialties mock obgyn. I don't understand this dynamic or elitism?

As far as I’m aware, we mostly mock their really miserable attitude, they always seem to be angry. I haven’t seen anyone mock their skills, nor should they. Gyn tumors are no joke.
 
Not sure If its been answered already, but is there a general trend in competitiveness between academic vs community ortho programs? I.e. say an applicant has a lower end step score (230) but has everything else that would make them a solid applicant, would it be smart to do aways at 3 different community programs instead of academic?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
This was likely asked before (and if so, could you kindly direct me to your response? was looking for it but couldn't find it :bag::sorry:):

but what are some tips you have for students to excel in their MS3 rotations, specifically in surgery? I think showing up early, being concise, being attentive and excited to learn are important (but not to overdo it), but would appreciate some specifics or examples.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Not sure If its been answered already, but is there a general trend in competitiveness between academic vs community ortho programs? I.e. say an applicant has a lower end step score (230) but has everything else that would make them a solid applicant, would it be smart to do aways at 3 different community programs instead of academic?

I would say applying broadly is the most important. And yes, if your step isn’t great then try for community:academic in a 4:1 ratio.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top