ortho OMFS death match

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Battle of the death, ortho or OMFS?

In terms of everything, lifestyle, income, prestige?
Any of you regret going into either field?

I feel like a broken record saying this: go through dental school and then you'll see what you like.
 
Great question! Here's my take:
1) Who makes more $$$$$?- This one has to go to OMFS, or wait, maybe it's that high production orthodontist, ohh crap, maybe it's a tie. Yes, dentist 2010, it all depends. The question really kind of sucks because it varies so much from dr to dr and from region to region and there are so many ways to look at net income after residency. Here's the truth though, they both make enough money to support you and your large family (I assume you have 9 or 10 children because the $$ is an issue). I know it's tough to understand this.......... they both are in like the 98th percentile for income in the US, so either way you will probably have one of the nicer yachts in the yacht-club👎. I hope that you are really worried about this so that you can donate large amounts of money to charities, right? (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) :laugh:.

2) Better lifestyle? I know so many orthodontists who barely work at all, they make good money, make patients happy and have low handicaps on the golf course. Oh but I forgot the oral surgeons who work relatively more hours, make patients happy, get to cutt, and they love it (I'm pretty sure that's because it's innate to them to be hard workers, after all they chose OMFS). They spend plenty of time with family and still have great practices. Crap another tie.

Hopefully the last category will settle this dispute.

3)More prestige?... More prestige?????? Are you serious? Really?? Prestige?? Come on, you have to be a med student jacking around with us dents on this forum. I thought that the people who worried most about prestige became MD's or lawyers. Did someone give you their member ID and password? Come on, tell the truth.......
On a serious note though (this should hit you like a ton of bricks) they are both prestigious. I once dated the daughter of an oral surgeon- man did I feel lucky to date the daughter of such a prestigious guy 😀. I was best friends with the son of an orthodontist. I think that my prestige level went up five bottles (that's how prestige is measured, in bottles of Crystal!!!).


So in closing.... don't ask stupid questions, just do want you like and you'll make plenty of money, you'll have a higher probability of being happy, and your prestige level will be like a 70 bottle level (that's 70 out of 89.9, which is really good).

P.S. I did know a gardener who had a prestige level of 85 bottles, yeah he was that good- his manicured lawn would bring you to your knees.
 
Great question! Here's my take:
1) Who makes more $$$$$?- This one has to go to OMFS, or wait, maybe it's that high production orthodontist, ohh crap, maybe it's a tie. Yes, dentist 2010, it all depends. The question really kind of sucks because it varies so much from dr to dr and from region to region and there are so many ways to look at net income after residency. Here's the truth though, they both make enough money to support you and your large family (I assume you have 9 or 10 children because the $$ is an issue). I know it's tough to understand this.......... they both are in like the 98th percentile for income in the US, so either way you will probably have one of the nicer yachts in the yacht-club👎. I hope that you are really worried about this so that you can donate large amounts of money to charities, right? (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) :laugh:.

2) Better lifestyle? I know so many orthodontists who barely work at all, they make good money, make patients happy and have low handicaps on the golf course. Oh but I forgot the oral surgeons who work relatively more hours, make patients happy, get to cutt, and they love it (I'm pretty sure that's because it's innate to them to be hard workers, after all they chose OMFS). They spend plenty of time with family and still have great practices. Crap another tie.

Hopefully the last category will settle this dispute.

3)More prestige?... More prestige?????? Are you serious? Really?? Prestige?? Come on, you have to be a med student jacking around with us dents on this forum. I thought that the people who worried most about prestige became MD's or lawyers. Did someone give you their member ID and password? Come on, tell the truth.......
On a serious note though (this should hit you like a ton of bricks) they are both prestigious. I once dated the daughter of an oral surgeon- man did I feel lucky to date the daughter of such a prestigious guy 😀. I was best friends with the son of an orthodontist. I think that my prestige level went up five bottles (that's how prestige is measured, in bottles of Crystal!!!).


So in closing.... don't ask stupid questions, just do want you like and you'll make plenty of money, you'll have a higher probability of being happy, and your prestige level will be like a 70 bottle level (that's 70 out of 89.9, which is really good).

P.S. I did know a gardener who had a prestige level of 85 bottles, yeah he was that good- his manicured lawn would bring you to your knees.

This is pure gold. Thank you for that, it had me laughing my ass off...:laugh:

Clueless kids like this need to be told, cause they can't figure it out themselves.
 
This is pure gold. Thank you for that, it had me laughing my ass off...:laugh:

Clueless kids like this need to be told, cause they can't figure it out themselves.

Well CanuckDDS the reason I'm asking is so I don't want to regret like some of the OMFS guys did in the middle or towards the end of their residency, and eventually switch to the "boring" and "lowly incomed" orthodontics programs or jump boat to IM.

I can assure you I'm not the only one here ok with either bending wire or pulling out molars for a few years, but what it comes down to is 1.admission stats 2. life style and the type of work afterwards.
If orthodontics is not so damn competitive you probably will see some of the "hardcore" OS people switch to it in a very sleek fashion.
 
Great question! Here's my take:
1) Who makes more $$$$$?- This one has to go to OMFS, or wait, maybe it's that high production orthodontist, ohh crap, maybe it's a tie. Yes, dentist 2010, it all depends. The question really kind of sucks because it varies so much from dr to dr and from region to region and there are so many ways to look at net income after residency. Here's the truth though, they both make enough money to support you and your large family (I assume you have 9 or 10 children because the $$ is an issue). I know it's tough to understand this.......... they both are in like the 98th percentile for income in the US, so either way you will probably have one of the nicer yachts in the yacht-club👎. I hope that you are really worried about this so that you can donate large amounts of money to charities, right? (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) :laugh:.

2) Better lifestyle? I know so many orthodontists who barely work at all, they make good money, make patients happy and have low handicaps on the golf course. Oh but I forgot the oral surgeons who work relatively more hours, make patients happy, get to cutt, and they love it (I'm pretty sure that's because it's innate to them to be hard workers, after all they chose OMFS). They spend plenty of time with family and still have great practices. Crap another tie.

Hopefully the last category will settle this dispute.

3)More prestige?... More prestige?????? Are you serious? Really?? Prestige?? Come on, you have to be a med student jacking around with us dents on this forum. I thought that the people who worried most about prestige became MD's or lawyers. Did someone give you their member ID and password? Come on, tell the truth.......
On a serious note though (this should hit you like a ton of bricks) they are both prestigious. I once dated the daughter of an oral surgeon- man did I feel lucky to date the daughter of such a prestigious guy 😀. I was best friends with the son of an orthodontist. I think that my prestige level went up five bottles (that's how prestige is measured, in bottles of Crystal!!!).


So in closing.... don't ask stupid questions, just do want you like and you'll make plenty of money, you'll have a higher probability of being happy, and your prestige level will be like a 70 bottle level (that's 70 out of 89.9, which is really good).

P.S. I did know a gardener who had a prestige level of 85 bottles, yeah he was that good- his manicured lawn would bring you to your knees.

So according to you, money, lifestyle and prestige are the same in both profession. Doesn't it make it more difficult to determine which specialty to choose from? The "you should go with your heart and do what you like" thing don't always work out.
 
Ahhh come on dentist 2010, if you read between some of those sarcastic (yes I admit I had a little fun) comments, you'll find some truth. Nothing is guaranteed, I only make the argument that if you do what you enjoy, you are more likely to enjoy that specialty for 20-30 years. Not a guarantee, but I believe more probable.

No, it doesn't make it more difficult to choose a speciality, it makes the decision easier. Ask yourself: "If ________(insert specialty) made the same or less $$$$$ than a general dentist, would I still want to do it? Can I see myself doing _________ for 20-30 years?" If you base your decision to specialize on money, I think that there's a chance that you might not be happy years down the road. Once again, a chance. Can people learn to enjoy most anything? Probably. Can you? Maybe... You know better than anyone.

In closing, I didn't say that $$$$$ and lifestyle for ortho and OMFS are the same, I made a point that those two variables (see definition of variable) can vary sooooo much from dr to dr and from region to region that it is difficult to draw a comparison. I do firmly believe that an unhappy orthodontist or oral surgeon would probably make less money over the length of his/her career than would a happy general dentist.
 
Have you talked to any of these OMFS's first-hand? Did they really regret it because of the lack of "lifestyle, income, or prestige"? It just seems weird that those would be the underlying factors. Well, perhaps the difference in lifestyle; but complaining about a lack of income or prestige... these must be some oral surgeons with pretty low self esteem.


Well CanuckDDS the reason I'm asking is so I don't want to regret like some of the OMFS guys did in the middle or towards the end of their residency, and eventually switch to the "boring" and "lowly incomed" orthodontics programs or jump boat to IM.
 
Well CanuckDDS the reason I'm asking is so I don't want to regret like some of the OMFS guys did in the middle or towards the end of their residency, and eventually switch to the "boring" and "lowly incomed" orthodontics programs or jump boat to IM.

I can assure you I'm not the only one here ok with either bending wire or pulling out molars for a few years, but what it comes down to is 1.admission stats 2. life style and the type of work afterwards.
If orthodontics is not so damn competitive you probably will see some of the "hardcore" OS people switch to it in a very sleek fashion.

I should have been less harsh in my response, sorry dude.

But I will say brother/sister. $$$$, lifestyle, and prestige should not be factors in you're decision. Whether or not you consider Bishara or Fonseca a "good read" should. Whether or not "bending wires" or "pulling molars" (which is not OMFS by the way) gives you a steamer should be the decision. You'll regret you're chosen specialty if you care about $$$$, lifestyle because I guarantee there will be a GP in your city that has a better lifestyle and makes more money than you if you are fortunate enough to get into dental school and then a specialty.

By the way, your above post doesn't make sense and is tough to read for people in the know, ortho residents (my wife) and OMFS residents (me) alike. But probably not to pre-dents.

I'm stepping off my soap box now....
 
I should have been less harsh in my response, sorry dude.

But I will say brother/sister. $$$$, lifestyle, and prestige should not be factors in you're decision. Whether or not you consider Bishara or Fonseca a "good read" should. Whether or not "bending wires" or "pulling molars" (which is not OMFS by the way) gives you a steamer should be the decision. You'll regret you're chosen specialty if you care about $$$$, lifestyle because I guarantee there will be a GP in your city that has a better lifestyle and makes more money than you if you are fortunate enough to get into dental school and then a specialty.

By the way, your above post doesn't make sense and is tough to read for people in the know, ortho residents (my wife) and OMFS residents (me) alike. But probably not to pre-dents.

I'm stepping off my soap box now....

Thanks.
Most OMFS guys I know pull out teeth and occasional implants here and there everyday to make a living. Yeah you can argue they can get hospital privileges but for the most part they do it once a week and most of the time they act like an attending in the clinic and don't even cut in the OR.
To me I feel if you are not gonna do all those cool stuff during your residency when you are out, isn't that a waste of energy and effort?
 
Thanks.
Most OMFS guys I know pull out teeth and occasional implants here and there everyday to make a living. Yeah you can argue they can get hospital privileges but for the most part they do it once a week and most of the time they act like an attending in the clinic and don't even cut in the OR.
To me I feel if you are not gonna do all those cool stuff during your residency when you are out, isn't that a waste of energy and effort?

seriously man, are you like 70? Do you know any younger (than 70) OMFS guys? Cause the days of omfs guys just pulling teeth are gone (hopefully) Most of the OMFS guys i know are trying to expand scope. You really don't know eh? That is ok though, you're learning....
 
really? from a financial point of view, isn't it most profitable to make most of your dough pulling 3rd molars? (not that money is all an OMFS cares about, but still i'm curious...). are the OMFS's you know expanding scope just to keep things interesting?
an OMFS in my area said he stopped doing orthognathic surgery because the pay for it wasn't worth the time and trouble. with the efficiency that an OMFS can extract impacted 3rd molars, i would think that's their gravy train (?)


seriously man, are you like 70? Do you know any younger (than 70) OMFS guys? Cause the days of omfs guys just pulling teeth are gone (hopefully) Most of the OMFS guys i know are trying to expand scope. You really don't know eh? That is ok though, you're learning....
 
seriously man, are you like 70? Do you know any younger (than 70) OMFS guys? Cause the days of omfs guys just pulling teeth are gone (hopefully) Most of the OMFS guys i know are trying to expand scope. You really don't know eh? That is ok though, you're learning....
More like 17, I'd guess.
 
That's cute.

You must feel so powerful behind the computer picking on folks in distance all day long.
I'm guessing you didn't have to go to dental school and figure out a thing or two. You are born a super dentist.
 
seriously man, are you like 70? Do you know any younger (than 70) OMFS guys? Cause the days of omfs guys just pulling teeth are gone (hopefully) Most of the OMFS guys i know are trying to expand scope. You really don't know eh? That is ok though, you're learning....

I'm applying to OMFS, and I've shadowed a couple of OS. T and T are all they do. What is trying to expand scope? Scope in private practice?
 
Oh, comeone guys, stop the attack on the pre-dent, and dont' tell me that none of you have ever compared the income and advantages vs. disadvantages of any of the specialty programs. The question about the prestige and life-style was naive, and I guess enough nice jokes are already made out of it😉. To answer the question, both professions can be very rewarding, but in my book, orthodoncy wins since it needs three years of less education. Having said this, money or length of education should not be the only reason you choose either of those (Of course, if you have the potentials to get in). I have personally shadowed both orthodontics and OMFS, studied cases in both, and see myself interested in both. I also like endo a lot; however, orthodontics appeals more to me since it needs 3 less years of education compared to OMFS, and has a much better income compared to endodontics. Yeah, I said it!!!!!!!!!!!
 
really? from a financial point of view, isn't it most profitable to make most of your dough pulling 3rd molars? (not that money is all an OMFS cares about, but still i'm curious...). are the OMFS's you know expanding scope just to keep things interesting?
an OMFS in my area said he stopped doing orthognathic surgery because the pay for it wasn't worth the time and trouble. with the efficiency that an OMFS can extract impacted 3rd molars, i would think that's their gravy train (?)

Sure from a $$$ point of view 8's are great, and don't get me wrong i'll be pulling 8's as well. It'll fund the rest of my practice...

Most ppl willing to put themselves through 4-6 years of $h!t want more than just pulling 8's. It is just the type of person that OMFS draws.
Orthognathic is different in Canada, a good chunk is paid for by the govt. Not to say that it is the "gravy train" but it is more accessible, and if you consider fixing some kid's messed up face/anterior open bite "worth the time and the trouble" maybe the pay seems ok. Clefts pay **** too, but that is not why you do them...
Pushing scope allows us to be able to do interesting Sx if we want, affords us some credibility with hospital bureaucracy, and is rightfully driven by younger OMFS's.

If you give up 4-6 years of your 30's you'll be really pissed off if you become a tooth pulling traveling barber surgeon for the money...don't specialize, just take 2 or 3 LVI courses and you're set financially.
 
Oh, comeone guys, stop the attack on the pre-dent, and dont' tell me that none of you have ever compared the income and advantages vs. disadvantages of any of the specialty programs. The question about the prestige and life-style was naive, and I guess enough nice jokes are already made out of it😉. To answer the question, both professions can be very rewarding, but in my book, orthodoncy wins since it needs three years of less education. Having said this, money or length of education should not be the only reason you choose either of those (Of course, if you have the potentials to get in). I have personally shadowed both orthodontics and OMFS, studied cases in both, and see myself interested in both. I also like endo a lot; however, orthodontics appeals more to me since it needs 3 less years of education compared to OMFS, and has a much better income compared to endodontics. Yeah, I said it!!!!!!!!!!!
You do know many ortho programs are 3 years in length and the majority of OMFS programs are 4 years in length. That's a 1 year difference. I wouldn't count endo out. The guys I refer to net approximately $600k a year. If you like endo, do endo. If you like ortho, do ortho. If you like it all, consider being a superstar general dentist.
 
sorry Jone most of that was for robhmnt and gundam....i'm not sure why i quoted you dude.

Anyhow you get my thoughts....
 
sorry Jone most of that was for robhmnt and gundam....i'm not sure why i quoted you dude.

Anyhow you get my thoughts....
I totally agree, Doc. The beauty of specializing is to use your skills not to only make money, but at least to get a self-gratification of what you know and can do.
 
You do know many ortho programs are 3 years in length and the majority of OMFS programs are 4 years in length. That's a 1 year difference. I wouldn't count endo out. The guys I refer to net approximately $600k a year. If you like endo, do endo. If you like ortho, do ortho. If you like it all, consider being a superstar general dentist.
Doc, I was comparing 3 vs. 6, but what you said makes sense. There are also 2 year ortho programs, which would make a difference of two years. Anyway, I still have a year left to apply, and will definitely look much more in depth into these three. Thanks for the note.
 
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