Osteopathic GME Expansion in 2015

[Oo Cipher oO]

Thanks for the update of these new GME programs.

In regards to the importance of COMLEX/USMLE in a post GME unified accreditation world I think we can look to the military match as an example. It has had an integrated DO/MD match for decades. The COMLEX is accepted universally by all specialties though some highly competitive specialties may prefer the USMLE. There are many different reasons why the military GME is different and may account for this difference, but if we are trying to predict how COMLEX is received by PD of the future it is not unreasonable to think that it may become more accepted then it is currently.

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Thanks for the update of these new GME programs.

In regards to the importance of COMLEX/USMLE in a post GME unified accreditation world I think we can look to the military match as an example. It has had an integrated DO/MD match for decades. The COMLEX is accepted universally by all specialties though some highly competitive specialties may prefer the USMLE. There are many different reasons why the military GME is different and may account for this difference, but if we are trying to predict how COMLEX is received by PD of the future it is not unreasonable to think that it may become more accepted then it is currently.

I think for lower tier and most mid tier programs this is what will be the case. For top tier programs probably not.

 

[sunealoneal]

In order to keep the cash train they should just do USMLE with an OPP section and have the OPP section alone cost the same amount as it does now for the COMLEX. Win-win and I would be fine with that

Perhaps DO schools know their whole classes can't pass the USMLE. And perhaps they can't just take better applicants because then they'd be competing with MD schools. They would frequently lose to MD schools.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Perhaps DO schools know their whole classes can't pass the USMLE. And perhaps they can't just take better applicants because then they'd be competing with MD schools. They would frequently lose to MD schools.

Tbh, I'm sure 95% of most DO school's classes will pass their USMLE by a second try and maybe 85-90% will pass on their first. They might not be at the 230 average that MD schools have, but I'd expect a 200-220 average without much complication.

 

[NurWollen]

Tbh, I'm sure 95% of most DO school's classes will pass their USMLE by a second try and maybe 85-90% will pass on their first. They might not be at the 230 average that MD schools have, but I'd expect a 200-220 average without much complication.

Agreed, especially if DO students only had one board exam to study for.

 

[Userneedmoreinfo]

Do most DO students take USMELE 1 only or all three?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Do most DO students take USMELE 1 only or all three?

I think something like 50% take Step 1, 20% take Step 2 and idk about 3.

 

[Userneedmoreinfo]

I think something like 50% take Step 1, 20% take Step 2 and idk about 3.

Is step 2 needed for a good internal residency spot?

 

[kenjixshadow]

I think something like 50% take Step 1, 20% take Step 2 and idk about 3.

Back then, there were very few ppl took step 2 CS & step 3 for fellowship. For the merge, it is not needed ever again.

Is step 2 needed for a good internal residency spot?

Yes, some programs will invite you with just step 1 score, but they'll wait for your step 2 scores before ranking you.

 

[Mad Jack]

In order to keep the cash train they should just do USMLE with an OPP section and have the OPP section alone cost the same amount as it does now for the COMLEX. Win-win and I would be fine with that

I'd be okay with this.

 

[Mad Jack]

I think something like 50% take Step 1, 20% take Step 2 and idk about 3.

Way less than 20% take Step 2- I think in 2013 or 2014 only 40-something DOs took Step 2. It's actually pretty rare, and generally only done by people gunning for super competitive fields or EM (who loves dat Step 2). There was a thread about it in the EM forums a while back, if my memory serves.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Way less than 20% take Step 2- I think in 2013 or 2014 only 40-something DOs took Step 2. It's actually pretty rare, and generally only done by people gunning for super competitive fields or EM (who loves dat Step 2). There was a thread about it in the EM forums a while back, if my memory serves.

I could be misreading something, but it seemed like at least at KCU a good deal of students were taking step 2. I may be totally misremembering something though.

 

[Mad Jack]

I could be misreading something, but it seemed like at least at KCU a good deal of students were taking step 2. I may be totally misremembering something though.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ents-take-usmle-step-2-cs-and-step-3.1115663/

Maybe I was thinking of Step 2 CK? Only 66 students took it in 2013. Perhaps more take CS, even though only EM and a few competitive residency programs care about it?

 

[NurWollen]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ents-take-usmle-step-2-cs-and-step-3.1115663/

Maybe I was thinking of Step 2 CK? Only 66 students took it in 2013. Perhaps more take CS, even though only EM and a few competitive residency programs care about it?

I don't know any DO students who have taken/plan on taking CS. I'm undecided on taking CK, but 66 seems like an awfully low number. Especially considering the number of DO students aiming for allo EM, where Step 2 scores seem to be especially important.

 

[Mad Jack]

I don't know any DO students who have taken/plan on taking CS. I'm undecided on taking CK, but 66 seems like an awfully low number. Especially considering the number of DO students aiming for allo EM, where Step 2 scores seem to be especially important.

Sorry, I said, CK, meant CS. CK is the one that more take, while basically no one does the sim.

 

[NurWollen]

I think a big factor in how many students at a given school take the USMLE is geography. Students at places MSUCOM, OU-HCOM, PCOM, and OSU-COM are surrounded by tons of AOA residencies in nearly every specialty. They have connections at a lot of these places by virtue of rotating there for 3rd year core clerkships. Out west, there is a much higher DO student: DO residency ratio, especially for people looking outside of primary care. So these people naturally turn to local ACGME programs, which in turn causes more students to consider taking the USMLE.

 

[NurWollen]

Sorry, I said, CK, meant CS. CK is the one that more take, while basically no one does the sim.

Yeah I've made that mistake too. I keep wanting to make CS stand for "Clinical Science" in my head.

 

[Mad Jack]

Yeah I've made that mistake too. I keep wanting to make CS stand for "Clinical Science" in my head.

Saaame

 

[hallowmann]

Probably 80-90% of them. The ones that might not survive will be the specialty ones- ortho, neurosurg, etc, where they might simply not have the case volume for the residency to continue. Hopefully they factored that in before applying for accreditation right before the merger though lol.

I actually know some people at a couple of these sites, and from what they've heard from PDs and DMEs is that they are already working on the paperwork for ACGME accreditation, with some planning to submit in the next month or so.

This has been pretty normal. Established DO schools have really been pumping out new residencies at least in the last few years since I've been following it. I thought it would slow down with the merger announcement, but taking to a couple soon-to-be PDs on rotations and they are just moving along with plans and simultaneously applying for ACGME accreditation.

Also, it's good to see some schools really take charge with expanding GME, especially if they're also expanding (which is starting to feel like all of them at this point). It at least shows that they have their students in mind.

You can say from a top down level that everyone should accept the COMLEX, but that won't make PDs actually do so.

Its actually more of a statement that fellowships shouldn't require DOs that graduate from pre-accredited programs to take the USMLE. It says nothing to the idea of accepting it on a qualitative level as a method of evaluation of candidates, just that it can't be a requirement that a DO takes the USMLE if they are offered a fellowship position. I believe this is pertinent because some fellowships require Step 3 (which can't take without taking all previous Step exams).

 

[NontradCA]

Is that an actual plastics residency? The first AOA one?

 

[Mad Jack]

Is that an actual plastics residency? The first AOA one?

Yep. The real deal. If it ever opens.

 

[Brorthopedic]

Yep. The real deal. If it ever opens.

#1percent

 

[Dustbowl12]

wow this is beautiful to see!!!!!!!!

 

[Mjolner]

wow this is beautiful to see!!!!!!!!

I saw the link somewhere on here a while ago but Google is failing me.

Does anyone know have a link to where you can see which programs have applied for osteopathic recognition ?

 

[IslandStyle808]

I saw the link somewhere on here a while ago but Google is failing me.

Does anyone know have a link to where you can see which programs have applied for osteopathic recognition ?

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Education/Pages/new-aoa-approved-ogme-programs.aspx

Just click on a program and scroll down. Look for the box titled "Single accreditation system," the answer should be there.