Osteopathic vs. Caribbean

[Mad Jack]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I'm guessing Harvard. They have DOs on staff that run an OMM clinic.

Nah, they have a highly ranked IM program. I'm pretty sure I know his program, but I'm not one to identify others so specifically. It is a very good program, that much I will say.

 

[Mad Jack]

I have a purely hypothetical question. Is it possible to transfer from a Caribbean school to a US one? I only ask because a girl I knew in college matriculated at a Caribbean veterinary school (which is apparently a thing that exists), then successfully transferred to a vet school in Chicago after a year or two, and has since graduated.

Note - I am not considering doing this at all, I'm just wondering if it's a thing people do.

Also please stop fighting.

Pls.

It's extremely difficult to impossible to do. A handful of people pull it off each year, but you have to be at the top of your class at a Big 4 and then pay that there is an open transfer spot somewhere, which doesn't happen much of the time, and take your boards early while also doing well. It just isn't very doable for literally 99.9% of people.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm not denying this, but as a guy with many friends at various MD schools I hear the lament of those at lower tier all the time.
Plus it's easy to say someone else has it worse to deny the difficulties you face (not saying you particularly).
I don't know your specialty or what program you're talking about, but I highly doubt there is a specialty that will take sub 200 allopathic students over ALL DOs across the board. There are always exceptions to the rule and there will always "that one place" yes, but not nationally. Most of the specialties, that on a national scale, won't look at DO won't look at most MD students either.

This isn't true at a LOT of places, actually. There's a good number of PDs out there that simply filter out DO and Carib grads right from the start, so that 260 DO will never see the light of day, and that 198 MD very well might. That's just how it is.

 

[SLC]

This isn't true at a LOT of places, actually. There's a good number of PDs out there that simply filter out DO and Carib grads right from the start, so that 260 DO will never see the light of day, and that 198 MD very well might. That's just how it is.

Sad but true. One of the places I interviewed at basically told me they usually like having "a DO" in the program; because of the sports medicine focus they have there.

I wasn't going to become their "token DO".

 

[costales]

This isn't true at a LOT of places, actually. There's a good number of PDs out there that simply filter out DO and Carib grads right from the start, so that 260 DO will never see the light of day, and that 198 MD very well might. That's just how it is.

Yep, we're talking about bulk processing. Even the crappy sweatshops use data filters - that's how PDs give first consideration to applicants from their own school/country/ethnicity/etc.

 

[jokersmiles]

Explain to whom? Who asks? Who cares?

Your coworkers and your patients will ask when they see that you are a DO and have no idea what that is.

As for who cares? you will when it happens. And it will happen.

 

[235009]

But the door keeps opening wider. More of my students are getting into competitive specialties nowadays than occurred about a decade ago. It won't surprise me if one of them ends up in IM at NYU someday soon (cue the Meat torpedo to come in, sputtering).

You keep proving that you have no idea how things work beyond the second year of med school. Of course it "won't surprise you" as your knowledge of the match is on par with a mildly informed pre-med.

Now here's the reality:
IM programs in desirable locations (like NYC, Boston, LA, etc) are getting more and more competitive as IM has become more popular. I'm at one such program and in the 3 years I've been there the stats of incoming interns has kept going up and I'm sure NYU has a similar trend. When a program can fill it's program 4 times over with highly qualified US MDs (and a few superstar FMGs) there's no reason to consider DOs.

 

[22031 Alum]

If so, then name a specialty that takes sub 200 MD students regularly and nationally yet nationally refuses ALL DO students.

I'd like to point out that my original comment, which prompted this line of discussion, was never about an entire specialty. It was about particular programs within each specialty. Specifically, particular programs within my specialty. I try not to comment on all specialties in general, because I want to emphasize the fact that it's hard to know what is what if you're not in a certain field. But my point was that there are programs out there that I know for a fact have taken applicants with scores well below average, while filtering out all DO and IMG applicants without regard for scores or anything else. I mention it to disavow you of the notion you have that a DO student who scores a 260 has overcome the bias that is out there, and will have equal, if not better, opportunities compared to a Harvard or even ETSU* student with a 211. Fair or not, it's just not true.

Luckily for everyone, this disadvantage rarely even matters. Most applicants want to receive good training that will prepare them for independent practice. Period. There are tons (tons!!) of programs that give the opportunity to do that. For those rare applicants who want to become an infertility specialist to the stars, or chair a top-ranked department one day, the disadvantage comes into play a little bit more. For those applicants who won't be happy unless they land the ENT residency that will get them to the #1 skull base surgery fellowship, I imagine it becomes a bigger deal. What doesn't help the situation is when people refuse to believe that the disadvantage is there at all. That is what I'm trying to counter.


*Quillen is a fine place, and I have lots of respect for their department. I use it as a decidedly "non-Harvard" example to make a point.

 

[deleted564680]

DOs are definitely screened out any many places. Like the above posters have mentioned, a 260+ DO student isn't passed by because of the 260+ but because of the DO and his/her application isn't even looked at. That's how you can have a 200 USMLE MD person get a spot over a 260+ DO student. If they are looking at both...it's probably more like 250 MD = 260 DO, 240 MD = 250 DO, 235 MD = 240 DO, and so forth with them becoming mostly equal at low USMLE scores.

From my own personal experience of applying with good scores, I remember getting almost immediate rejections from a few places that were "lesser-known" than some places I did get interviews. This was almost certainly due to the former programs having a "DO filter."

Most programs use a USMLE score and a geography filter as their primary screen and then some have a DO and/or IMG filter.

Usually, the more academic and well-known a program (MGH, BWH, UCSF, etc.) they view IMG > DO but then the other 95% of places view DO > IMG. This is because those top 5% of places view their prestige as their main asset and nothing harms that prestige more than a medical student/residents/attendings scrolling through their "current resident" section and seeing a D.O.

I've heard this direct quote, "They have D.O.s there so it most not be good/as good" many times directly from MD students and residents. You can just look at the perceived drop in prestige of a D.O. friendly place like Cleveland Clinic or D.O. friendly program like Hopkins anesthesia to see that this thought process occurs.

 

[Userneedmoreinfo]

Do you think PDs read this forum?

 

[22031 Alum]

Do you think PDs read this forum?

I don't think, I know. I am not a PD, though I plan to be one someday.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

SDN is a wonderful community for exchanging ideas and friendly discourse.

Lets refrain from name calling or personal attacks.

Please keep it professional.

 

[Mad Jack]

You keep proving that you have no idea how things work beyond the second year of med school. Of course it "won't surprise you" as your knowledge of the match is on par with a mildly informed pre-med.

Now here's the reality:
IM programs in desirable locations (like NYC, Boston, LA, etc) are getting more and more competitive as IM has become more popular. I'm at one such program and in the 3 years I've been there the stats of incoming interns has kept going up and I'm sure NYU has a similar trend. When a program can fill it's program 4 times over with highly qualified US MDs (and a few superstar FMGs) there's no reason to consider DOs.

Aside from this, NYU in particular has a strong anti-DO bias on the PD side that isn't going away any time soon. They're kind of well-known for being one of the least DO friendly places in the country, and would throw out DO apps for less qualified MD apps regardless of how deep or shallow their applicant pool is. DOs are making progress in a lot of places, but those places certainly won't lead to NYU any time soon.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'd like to point out that my original comment, which prompted this line of discussion, was never about an entire specialty. It was about particular programs within each specialty. Specifically, particular programs within my specialty. I try not to comment on all specialties in general, because I want to emphasize the fact that it's hard to know what is what if you're not in a certain field. But my point was that there are programs out there that I know for a fact have taken applicants with scores well below average, while filtering out all DO and IMG applicants without regard for scores or anything else. I mention it to disavow you of the notion you have that a DO student who scores a 260 has overcome the bias that is out there, and will have equal, if not better, opportunities compared to a Harvard or even ETSU* student with a 211. Fair or not, it's just not true.

Luckily for everyone, this disadvantage rarely even matters. Most applicants want to receive good training that will prepare them for independent practice. Period. There are tons (tons!!) of programs that give the opportunity to do that. For those rare applicants who want to become an infertility specialist to the stars, or chair a top-ranked department one day, the disadvantage comes into play a little bit more. For those applicants who won't be happy unless they land the ENT residency that will get them to the #1 skull base surgery fellowship, I imagine it becomes a bigger deal. What doesn't help the situation is when people refuse to believe that the disadvantage is there at all. That is what I'm trying to counter.


*Quillen is a fine place, and I have lots of respect for their department. I use it as a decidedly "non-Harvard" example to make a point.

One key place where it matters more and more, however, is surgery. AOA programs will no longer exist in the near future, and I can count the number of ACGME general surgery matches from my school in the last five years on one hand. There's a few subspecialty ACGME surgery matches we've had- ortho, optho, and the like- but general surgery is a very tough field for DOs, and is only going to become more difficult moving forward. If someone wants to operate, MD is by far the better way to go.

 

[22031 Alum]

One key place where it matters more and more, however, is surgery. AOA programs will no longer exist in the near future, and I can count the number of ACGME general surgery matches from my school in the last five years on one hand. There's a few subspecialty ACGME surgery matches we've had- ortho, optho, and the like- but general surgery is a very tough field for DOs, and is only going to become more difficult moving forward. If someone wants to operate, MD is by far the better way to go.

*US MD, since the whole thread started with the question of DO vs. Caribbean MD. I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea from our digression.

@Mad Jack gives a helpful perspective, for those who may be weighing their options. Even if someone chooses the harder path, I'd much prefer them to be informed when they do so. It's a bummer to hear about people who are blindsided by the fact that some doors are still closed to them despite their best efforts.

 

[Mad Jack]

*US MD, since the whole thread started with the question of DO vs. Caribbean MD. I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea from our digression.

Oh, should have made that more clear- yeah, I 3,000% meant US MD. If you're looking to be a surgeon and deciding between Carib and DO, you're looking at a long shot with the DO versus a slightly longer shot (or virtually no shot at all if you're outside of the Big 4) with the Carib. Yet you tell people that and all they hear is

 

[IslandStyle808]

*US MD, since the whole thread started with the question of DO vs. Caribbean MD. I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea from our digression.

@Mad Jack gives a helpful perspective, for those who may be weighing their options. Even if someone chooses the harder path, I'd much prefer them to be informed when they do so. It's a bummer to hear about people who are blindsided by the fact that some doors are still closed to them despite their best efforts.

It's because in the 5 years of religiously reading this forum I have never heard of a DO /caribbean filter. If we knew this instead of the conjecture of it is better to be in an MD school, then it would make more sense to go MD. It may not change some of the head strong "I still have a chance as a DO/carib," but more people would be understanding of what it means to attend each school.

 

[DOFOSHO]

Your coworkers and your patients will ask when they see that you are a DO and have no idea what that is.

As for who cares? you will when it happens. And it will happen.

Thanks for your vast wisdom and experience, pre-dental.

 

[deleted731525]

Your coworkers and your patients will ask when they see that you are a DO and have no idea what that is.

As for who cares? you will when it happens. And it will happen.

Maybe but all of the DOs I have shadowed have no shortages of patients. They(the patients) tend to fight for the doctor's time, not the other way around.

 

[235009]

It's because in the 5 years of religiously reading this forum I have never heard of a DO /caribbean filter. If we knew this instead of the conjecture of it is better to be in an MD school, then it would make more sense to go MD. It may not change some of the head strong "I still have a chance as a DO/carib," but more people would be understanding of what it means to attend each school.

...i've been saying this for years

 

[IslandStyle808]

...i've been saying this for years

I have been reading pre-allo and pre-osteo more so than allo/osteo, this maybe part of the reason. I might have also interpreted your post to mean "they look at the application but toss it when they see they are osteopathic students." My mistake.

 

[Mad Jack]

I have been reading pre-allo and pre-osteo more so than allo/osteo, this maybe part of the reason. I might have also interpreted your post to mean "they look at the application but toss it when they see they are osteopathic students." My mistake.

It's pretty widely discussed on the non-pre forums. Certain places filter out FMGs, some filter out IMGs, some filter out DO, some filter out all of the above. It's similar to how many medical schools that have screens set up for MCAT and GPA- you could have a 45 on the MCAT, but if your GPA falls below the screen, your app never sees the light of day so it doesn't matter. When you've got hundreds or thousands of applications coming your way, you have to sort them somehow since you can't interview everyone.

 

[22031 Alum]

It's because in the 5 years of religiously reading this forum I have never heard of a DO /caribbean filter. If we knew this instead of the conjecture of it is better to be in an MD school, then it would make more sense to go MD. It may not change some of the head strong "I still have a chance as a DO/carib," but more people would be understanding of what it means to attend each school.

I just quickly did a search with the terms 'ERAS filter' and got more results than I care to go through, in subforums ranging from pre-med to specialty-specific. I don't expect anyone to have done that specific search, but it has definitely been mentioned. I think it's worth revisiting whenever the topic comes up, for the benefit of new readers who may not go back and see old posts.

 

[IslandStyle808]

It's pretty widely discussed on the non-pre forums. Certain places filter out FMGs, some filter out IMGs, some filter out DO, some filter out all of the above. It's similar to how many medical schools that have screens set up for MCAT and GPA- you could have a 45 on the MCAT, but if your GPA falls below the screen, your app never sees the light of day so it doesn't matter. When you've got hundreds or thousands of applications coming your way, you have to sort them somehow since you can't interview everyone.

I can understand the MCAT/GPA filter. I would assume it to be just like the USMLE filter (totally understand this). It is kind of hard to wrap my head around the DO/carib filter. It not so much "why are they doing this," but more "wow so that's what's going on."

 

[IslandStyle808]

I just quickly did a search with the terms 'ERAS filter' and got more results than I care to go through, in subforums ranging from pre-med to specialty-specific. I don't expect anyone to have done that specific search, but it has definitely been mentioned. I think it's worth revisiting whenever the topic comes up, for the benefit of new readers who may not go back and see old posts.

It is much less frequently mentioned on pre-allo and pre-osteo. If it has been mentioned, I don't think I interpreted it as a filter. I wish there were more details on such filters in the pre-fourms. Well, it is very interesting to know finally in full detail.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

It's because in the 5 years of religiously reading this forum I have never heard of a DO /caribbean filter. If we knew this instead of the conjecture of it is better to be in an MD school, then it would make more sense to go MD. It may not change some of the head strong "I still have a chance as a DO/carib," but more people would be understanding of what it means to attend each school.

Extending on the above posters, to not have heard this before would take an almost religious avoidance of the topic.

It has come up innumerable times.

If you've ever gotten to play with the eras system from the program side, you can make dang near any filter you want. They are customizable and savable.

 

[Goro]

Except for PM&R!

Aside from this, NYU in particular has a strong anti-DO bias on the PD side that isn't going away any time soon. They're kind of well-known for being one of the least DO friendly places in the country, and would throw out DO apps for less qualified MD apps regardless of how deep or shallow their applicant pool is. DOs are making progress in a lot of places, but those places certainly won't lead to NYU any time soon.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Extending on the above posters, to not have heard this before would take an almost religious avoidance of the topic.

It has come up innumerable times.

If you've ever gotten to play with the eras system from the program side, you can make dang near any filter you want. They are customizable and savable.

I don't believe the topic is that common in the pre-forums. More definitely in allo and osteo (especially since I more regularly read those threads from 2 years ago) and definitely more so in the specialty threads.

However, your correct in that I should spread my reading outside these sub forums (pre-osteo, pre-allo, osteo, and allo). I would have come to understand this topic much better if I did such.

EDIT MADE

 

[Mad Jack]

Except for PM&R!

Yeah, PM&R is fine there. But even fields where DOs should stand a reasonable chance nowadays, such as rads, they're very unfriendly to say the least. The vast majority of their departments won't touch us.

 

[Goro]

Give 'em one more decade and let's see what happens.

I've seen my students crack ERAS filters in the past.

Change in Medicine isn't revolutionary, it's evolutionary.

Yeah, PM&R is fine there. But even fields where DOs should stand a reasonable chance nowadays, such as rads, they're very unfriendly to say the least. The vast majority of their departments won't touch us.

 

[Mad Jack]

Give 'em one more decade and let's see what happens.

I've seen my students crack ERAS filters in the past.

Change in Medicine isn't revolutionary, it's evolutionary.

I give IM at NYU a solid "not in my working lifetime" chance of ever taking DOs. Some of the other fields, maybe. But they've actually slid backwards in recent years- I think it was rads that used to consider DOs, but they got a new PD that decided they were going to filter them out from now on. Could be a different department though, I'd have to fish through the specialty forums for a refresher.

 

[Goro]

As my Arabic-speaking students say, "Inshallah"

I give IM at NYU a solid "not in my working lifetime" chance of ever taking DOs. Some of the other fields, maybe. But they've actually slid backwards in recent years- I think it was rads that used to consider DOs, but they got a new PD that decided they were going to filter them out from now on. Could be a different department though, I'd have to fish through the specialty forums for a refresher.

 

[NurWollen]

I give IM at NYU a solid "not in my working lifetime" chance of ever taking DOs. Some of the other fields, maybe. But they've actually slid backwards in recent years- I think it was rads that used to consider DOs, but they got a new PD that decided they were going to filter them out from now on. Could be a different department though, I'd have to fish through the specialty forums for a refresher.

I'm not really familiar with NYU, but honestly all it would take is a new PD and/or department chair with a different attitude about things. I wouldn't expect it to suddenly become über DO-friendly, but a change in the hard "no DO policy" would take nothing more than, well, a policy change.

 

[racerwad]

I don't believe the topic is that common in the pre-forums. More definitely in allo and osteo (especially since I more regularly read those threads from 2 years ago) and definitely more so in the specialty threads.

However, your correct in that I should spread my reading outside these sub forums (pre-osteo, pre-allo, osteo, and allo). I would have come to understand this topic much better if I did such.

EDIT MADE

The nature of residency application is the fundamental reason why in all of the SDN forums there is the well known "MD>DO>Carib." Maybe it wasn't articulated or understood by all who repeat it, but when it comes time to apply for residency, this is why it matters where you go. To say that it isn't mentioned that being a DO will get you filtered out by some residency programs means that you've just had your head in the sand.

The worst part about being a DO does not mean that you aren't necessarily smart enough to do what you what; being a DO means that you simply might not have a chance, period. Therefore, those of us farther along in the game encourage premeds to really consider the stakes at play in the context of residency opportunities and premeds continue to believe that they will be the unique snowflake that will harness the Force, undo the matrix and change the system.

 

[racerwad]

I'm not really familiar with NYU, but honestly all it would take is a new PD and/or department chair with a different attitude about things.

LOL.

An entire institutional culture will not be changed with just a new program director. It would certainly help, but that PD and/or chair would have to get the buy in of the entire faculty. Getting the faculty to change their perspective on just about anything is like herding cats (rabid, methed-out cats).

 

[jokersmiles]

Maybe but all of the DOs I have shadowed have no shortages of patients. They(the patients) tend to fight for the doctor's time, not the other way around.

I'm not saying that DOs have a lack of patients, I'm just stating the reality that a DO will always be seen as MD rejects.... and because of that they will have to explain what a DO is.

Those that claim nobody will ask what a DO is or care are in denial.

Besides, the very point of this thread is because people want the MD title so bad that they would rather go to Carribean over a DO school.

 

[SLC]

I'm not saying that DOs have a lack of patients, I'm just stating the reality that a DO will always be seen as MD rejects.... and because of that they will have to explain what a DO is.

Those that claim nobody will ask what a DO is or care are in denial.

Besides, the very point of this thread is because people want the MD title so bad that they would rather go to Carribean over a DO school.

I've never had to defend my title to a patient. To patient's it's just "Doctor". Most people out there don't even care enough to notice that someone has a DO instead of an MD. Like literally nobody cares, at all. It's literally the same thing as a dentist needing to answer questions about why his diploma says DMD instead of DDS. Patients just know it's a dentist, don't care or even pay attention to the different initials. The few that do are content with the explanation that there are two different degrees that allow someone to be a licensed dentist/doctor.

Hell, a ton of patients refer to the PA that sees them as their "doctor" and think that PA's went to medical school too. This is a complete non-issue.

 

[NurWollen]

I've never had to defend my title to a patient. To patient's it's just "Doctor". Most people out there don't even care enough to notice that someone has a DO instead of an MD. Like literally nobody cares, at all. It's literally the same thing as a dentist needing to answer questions about why his diploma says DMD instead of DDS. Patients just know it's a dentist, don't care or even pay attention to the different initials. The few that do are content with the explanation that there are two different degrees that allow someone to be a licensed dentist/doctor.

Hell, a ton of patients refer to the PA that sees them as their "doctor" and think that PA's went to medical school too. This is a complete non-issue.

Thank you. You just successfully wrangled the Internet.

 

[22031 Alum]

I'm not saying that DOs have a lack of patients, I'm just stating the reality that a DO will always be seen as MD rejects.... and because of that they will have to explain what a DO is.

Those that claim nobody will ask what a DO is or care are in denial.

Besides, the very point of this thread is because people want the MD title so bad that they would rather go to Carribean over a DO school.

Grownups are talking. We get the point you're trying to make, know from firsthand experience that it is wrong, and would like to move on. Note that even those of us talking about DO filters aren't throwing around the word "rejects" or having to justify things to patients. You're distracting from what I think could actually be an informative discussion.

Give 'em one more decade and let's see what happens.

I've seen my students crack ERAS filters in the past.

Change in Medicine isn't revolutionary, it's evolutionary.

The thing is, Goro, while you and I are at a point where we can see what happens over decades, many of the impressionable young minds around here will be reaping the effects of their decisions far sooner than that. I definitely agree with your point about how things evolve, and am excited to see what happens. More than the merger specifically, I think things will change (in OB) as more DOs become involved in ACGME academics.

 

[AlteredScale]

I'm not saying that DOs have a lack of patients, I'm just stating the reality that a DO will always be seen as MD rejects.... and because of that they will have to explain what a DO is.

So what are you actually bringing to the table here on this thread besides letting everyone know that a DO is a second class doctor? You add no substance to this conversation by stating such a naive perception. Your argument essentially points to DOs as being lower tier MD's when I can easily ask MD's at my alma mater (a very strong medical/research institution) and they would consider them to be colleagues, NOT MD rejects.

Take this (this meaning a resident and attending physician on faculty telling you to shape up) a slap on the wrist.

 

[Goro]

From my perspective from a PhD and medical school/faculty side, I disagree somewhat. Most new Chairs and deans come in and have a grace period for a year while they see how things run. Then the changes come, either slowly or in a mad rush, no in-between. Most of these people have vision and want to meld things In Their Image, and woe betide people who stand in their way.

If you ever hear of a dep't or a school where all of a sudden there's a massive outflow of faculty, it's usually due to a new Dean or chair.

LOL.

An entire institutional culture will not be changed with just a new program director. It would certainly help, but that PD and/or chair would have to get the buy in of the entire faculty. Getting the faculty to change their perspective on just about anything is like herding cats (rabid, methed-out cats).

 

[NurWollen]

Grownups are talking. We get the point you're trying to make, know from firsthand experience that it is wrong, and would like to move on. Note that even those of us talking about DO filters aren't throwing around the word "rejects" or having to justify things to patients. You're distracting from what I think could actually be an informative discussion.



The thing is, Goro, while you and I are at a point where we can see what happens over decades, many of the impressionable young minds around here will be reaping the effects of their decisions far sooner than that. I definitely agree with your point about how things evolve, and am excited to see what happens. More than the merger specifically, I think things will change (in OB) as more DOs become involved in ACGME academics.

Thank you for your optimistic but still realistic comments. I appreciate them, even if a lot of people on here would rather argue about the extremes.

 

[racerwad]

From my perspective from a PhD and medical school/faculty side, I disagree somewhat. Most new Chairs and deans come in and have a grace period for a year while they see how things run. Then the changes come, either slowly or in a mad rush, no in-between. Most of these people have vision and want to meld things In Their Image, and woe betide people who stand in their way.

If you ever hear of a dep't or a school where all of a sudden there's a massive outflow of faculty, it's usually due to a new Dean or chair.

I don't disagree with your point, but I think we are talking about two different things. A new PD can make sweeping changes to policy, but the culture won't change overnight and this process won't be as easy, unless there is already institutional buy-in. I'm certainly not saying that it can't happen, it just takes more than a little handwaving from a new face.

If all the faculty leave, or threaten to leave, this will certainly affect the rate of change as well as the perceived desirability of the program. This has the downstream affect of making these types of changes gradual. To quote you in a different context:

Change in Medicine isn't revolutionary, it's evolutionary.

 

[jokersmiles]

So what are you actually bringing to the table here on this thread besides letting everyone know that a DO is a second class doctor? You add no substance to this conversation by stating such a naive perception. Your argument essentially points to DOs as being lower tier MD's when I can easily ask MD's at my alma mater (a very strong medical/research institution) and they would consider them to be colleagues, NOT MD rejects.

Take this (this meaning a resident and attending physician on faculty telling you to shape up) a slap on the wrist.

"I feel whichever school i pick will make me an equally caring physician, but I want to know about residency and I'm worried about what my patients will say when I say that I'm a DO. I know that DO's are as smart/quick/sharp/etc, but I'm not sure if my patients will know that. If I go to a Caribbean school, they will never know where I went to school and I'll have a MD behind my name. Please help."

^is the question posed by the OP

He asked a simple question and I gave a simple answer. He is worried about what people will say about the DO title.
Yes, people will question their education and credentials, does this mean they are worse doctors? no.
Not all DOs will have to experience this, but many will.

I am not contributing to whatever the other members are posting about, all I did was read the OP's question, and directly answered it.
This thread is a comparison thread, there is no need to feel offended. I'm just being real.

 

[AlteredScale]

"I feel whichever school i pick will make me an equally caring physician, but I want to know about residency and I'm worried about what my patients will say when I say that I'm a DO. I know that DO's are as smart/quick/sharp/etc, but I'm not sure if my patients will know that. If I go to a Caribbean school, they will never know where I went to school and I'll have a MD behind my name. Please help."

^is the question posed by the OP

He asked a simple question and I gave a simple answer. He is worried about what people will say about the DO title.
Yes, people will question their education and credentials, does this mean they are worse doctors? no.
Not all DOs will have to experience this, but many will.

I am not contributing to whatever the other members are posting about, all I did was read the OP's question, and directly answered it.
This thread is a comparison thread, there is no need to feel offended. I'm just being real.

You did not give a simple answer. You gave an incorrect one. When faculty such as @22031 Alum state you're wrong, shouldn't you consider retracting such statements?

What experience do you have to base the statement "not many DO's will have this occurrence, but many will"? Where are you basing your perceptions off of?

 

[kenjixshadow]

"I feel whichever school i pick will make me an equally caring physician, but I want to know about residency and I'm worried about what my patients will say when I say that I'm a DO. I know that DO's are as smart/quick/sharp/etc, but I'm not sure if my patients will know that. If I go to a Caribbean school, they will never know where I went to school and I'll have a MD behind my name. Please help."

^is the question posed by the OP

He asked a simple question and I gave a simple answer. He is worried about what people will say about the DO title.
Yes, people will question their education and credentials, does this mean they are worse doctors? no.
Not all DOs will have to experience this, but many will.

I am not contributing to whatever the other members are posting about, all I did was read the OP's question, and directly answered it.
This thread is a comparison thread, there is no need to feel offended. I'm just being real.

First off, what is a pre-dental spewing nonsense in an osteopathic medical student forum? Second, if you want to reply to OP, you're almost 15 years too late (posted in Feb 2001). He/she is probably an attending by now and doesn't need your simple answer. Anyway, you're not contributing anything worthy to discuss. Thank you for your pre-dental opinion though.

 

[jokersmiles]

You did not give a simple answer. You gave an incorrect one. When faculty such as @22031 Alum state you're wrong, shouldn't you consider retracting such statements?

What experience do you have to base the statement "not many DO's will have this occurrence, but many will"? Where are you basing your perceptions off of?

Perhaps you and the few other DO physicians on this forum feel that I am mistaken and speaking nonsense.
Are you trying to argue that the view that DOs are inferior to MDs is absolutely nonexistent in public perception?
If you truly believe this to be the case, then it is not I who is incorrect.

Disregard me and carry on with your discussion, did not realize the age of this thread nor did I care to read recent postings.

 

[AlteredScale]

Perhaps you and the few other DO physicians on this forum feel that I am mistaken and speaking nonsense.
Are you trying to argue that the view that DOs are inferior to MDs is absolutely nonexistent in public perception?
If you truly believe this to be the case, then it is not I who is incorrect.

Disregard me and carry on with your discussion, did not realize the age of this thread nor did I care to read recent postings.

There are MD physicians on this forum as a well. It's not just DO physicians trying to "mask their inferiority" as you have stated is the case...



Anyways to put this thread back on topic, I've seen some grads from SGU match to SUNY HSC for surgery. There are a few DO's on house staff there too. Do you think it's harder for DO's or MD's from the carib to match to a place that seems to consider both?

 

[deleted731525]

I'm not saying that DOs have a lack of patients, I'm just stating the reality that a DO will always be seen as MD rejects.... and because of that they will have to explain what a DO is.

Those that claim nobody will ask what a DO is or care are in denial.

Besides, the very point of this thread is because people want the MD title so bad that they would rather go to Carribean over a DO school.

The vast majority of people do not see DOs as MD rejects because most people dont know(and most dont care) about the difference. Im sure some MDs look down on DOs but then again if you(as a hypothetical DO) end up at the same institution as a MD who looks down on DOs, the joke by definition is on them as they are at the same place making the same money as someone they see as inferior. Regardless there is no point in worrying about this outside of residency placement(in which DO>carib MD). Maybe it is because my end goal is to live in a quiet semi rural area or maybe its because Im an dingus but I dont care what people think of my intelligence. Should I?

 

[IsWhat]

I don't really understand some of the arguments in this thread. Sure, there are a few programs who simply don't take DOs. These programs are also out of reach for 99% of MDs as well. Not to mention most of these "elite" academic medical centers are full of some of the most emotionally dull physicians I have run across (I currently work at one).