***Oversupply of Pharmacists***

www.westernu.edu/pharmacy/
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SHC1984 said:
I was working with a pharmacist today and he pretty much told me everything this thread is telling me. He told me the job market is going to get tighter as the years pass. Graduating in 2010 is better than 2011, which is better than 2012 and so on. He told me the lifestyle of a pharmacist will not be as good as it was before. He told me he has a son and he recommended that he stay AWAY from pharmacy b/c the profession is going under. He is a pharmacist himself and he told me he is lucky that he graduated when there was still a shortage. This thread is saying the same thing pretty much.
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It's like that in every field though. My friends who are physicians/med students were warned away from it by their physician parent(s) because of declining reimbursements, litigation and red tape. My friends who are engineers are warning their kids away from it because of offshoring. My friends who are teachers are warning their kids away from it. My social worker/LCSW friends - half of whom are unemployed right now - are definitely warning everyone away from it. Same with my lawyer friends. I can't think of one profession -- outside of some federal employee friends I have and some tradesmen in my family -- that doesn't think that their industry is much worse than it used to be and will only worsen in the future. The optometry forums here sometimes complain their industry is getting saturated too!
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Passion4Sci said:
Optometry, no thanks.
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It's better than dentistry and medicine. Doesn't involve any blood or much patient contact....but it does involve a lot of physics that I am NOT good at. :(
 
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SHC1984 said:
Well the pharmacist I was talking to recommended optometry as the way to go now. He told me there are only like 17 Opto schools in the USA. He is recommending optometry to his son too. Hell, maybe I should have thought about opto instead of pharm. :laugh:
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So you'd leave what you want to do, and go into a field you don't know much about just because you think the job market is better? What if you don't like it? Would you go to a job you don't like just because it pays better?
 
Silvermist said:
It's like that in every field though. My friends who are physicians/med students were warned away from it by their physician parent(s) because of declining reimbursements, litigation and red tape. My friends who are engineers are warning their kids away from it because of offshoring. My friends who are teachers are warning their kids away from it. My social worker/LCSW friends - half of whom are unemployed right now - are definitely warning everyone away from it. Same with my lawyer friends. I can't think of one profession -- outside of some federal employee friends I have and some tradesmen in my family -- that doesn't think that their industry is much worse than it used to be and will only worsen in the future. The optometry forums here sometimes complain their industry is getting saturated too!
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True, it is hard to find THE PERFECT profession nowadays...The only disadvantage to pharmacy is that there are waaaaaaaaaaaay too many pharmacy schools opened. There are only 17 opto schools and 52 dental schools. Pharmacy schools should be around that number too. THere is no need for more than around 50 pharmacy schools in this country.
 
If I wanted to be recession proof again, I could go to OCS and become an officer in the Army and go back to human intelligence collection... so that's not really what I am concerned most with.
 
crazybob said:
So you'd leave what you want to do, and go into a field you don't know much about just because you think the job market is better? What if you don't like it? Would you go to a job you don't like just because it pays better?
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Well my dream jobs (look at the other thread) are not very easy to obtain, so all these other jobs that I am doing are just okay to me. I don't love it but I don't hate it. As long as I can do the job and don't hate it and it GUARNTEES better pay/market/job security. Then yes I would take it. However, I have already considered Optometry....I don't think I would be good at it b/c I do not like physics at all and Opto school is 90% physics. If it wasn't like that then Opto it is!
 
Passion4Sci said:
If I wanted to be recession proof again, I could go to OCS and become an officer in the Army and go back to human intelligence collection... so that's not really what I am concerned most with.
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What r you most concerned with?
Main things:
1) job flexibility
2) Money
3) able to relocate to anywhere in the country
4) job security
5) not very harsh job conditions
6) in doors/clean enviroment
7) job presitage

Other than those things I can't think of anything else thats worth worrying about.
 
SHC1984 said:
What r you most concerned with?
Main things:
1) job flexibility
2) Money
3) able to relocate to anywhere in the country
4) job security
5) not very harsh job conditions
6) in doors/clean enviroment
7) job presitage

Other than those things I can't think of anything else thats worth worrying about.
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1. Doing something I love/enjoy... and that's about it.

Not getting shot at is a plus.
 
Passion4Sci said:
1. Doing something I love/enjoy... and that's about it.

Not getting shot at is a plus.
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LOL...I wish I can say that I love/enjoy pharmacy. Maybe I can after getting more experience. So far the ONLY experience I have is retail and that is NOT what I will be doing for sure! LOL...
 
Passion4Sci said:
Optometry, no thanks.
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My feelings too.

There are some different paths in health care/science that interest me besides Pharmacy, but Optometry, I don't think I could do it. Just getting through the special senses section in A&P was a snoozefest for me. You know how some people say "ugh I could not count pills all day" re:pharm (which we know is not accurate), I always think of Optometrists as saying "better or worse", "1 or 2" all day (and obviously there is more to it than that).

Honestly, my choice after Pharmacy if I were unable to get in to the school to which I will apply this coming cycle was going to be CLS but the program has been axed due to budget cuts. CLS (and don't laugh now) sounded fun to me and I could have given a darn about the lower salary.

Not sure what my back up plan will be now - CLS was incredibly appealing second to Pharmacy.
 
SHC1984 said:
LOL...I wish I can say that I love/enjoy pharmacy. Maybe I can after getting more experience. So far the ONLY experience I have is retail and that is NOT what I will be doing for sure! LOL...
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You know that you're limiting your opportunities that way, right?

I mean not every retail store is bad if you like your customers and your coworkers.

If you work at an independent, you can enjoy it a lot more than retail.
 
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SHC1984 said:
LOL...I wish I can say that I love/enjoy pharmacy. Maybe I can after getting more experience. So far the ONLY experience I have is retail and that is NOT what I will be doing for sure! LOL...
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Yea... my experience with retail is @ the independent, which is a really great place to work in an upscale city, so I'm sure that's not representative of most retail experiences, lol.
 
crazybob said:
You know that you're limiting your opportunities that way, right?

I mean not every retail store is bad if you like your customers and your coworkers.

If you work at an independent, you can enjoy it a lot more than retail.
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I am looking into compounding and mail order pharmacies as my other options. The only scary thing is the LACK of jobs now and the fact that I might have to relocate to Alaska to even have a chance at a job. :rolleyes:

I guess I am lucky that I am not married right now. If I was it would be very diffcult to find a job AND making sure that it is in the same city as my husband's. That would a major pain the a** for sure. I don't see how any marry couples can do this.
 
SHC1984 said:
I am looking into compounding and mail order pharmacies as my other options. The only scary thing is the LACK of jobs now and the fact that I might have to relocate to Alaska to even have a chance at a job. :rolleyes:
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I guess you're willing to relocate. In the other post, you were complaining about living in the middle of nowhere if you're not going to be close to SF :laugh:
 
SHC1984 said:
I guess I am lucky that I am not married right now. If I was it would be very diffcult to find a job AND making sure that it is in the same city as my husband's. That would a major pain the a** for sure. I don't see how any marry couples can do this.
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You're married?
 
crazybob said:
I guess you're willing to relocate. In the other post, you were complaining about living in the middle of nowhere if you're not going to be close to SF :laugh:
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I will relocate, work/pay off my loans quickly then move to a place that is actually nice to live at. :laugh: I don't like looking at rocks, trees and cows all day.

Yes, I am willing to relocate now that I know the job market is really THAT BAD. That is until I pay off my student loans which should take 3-4 years to pay off (I didn't take out that much, thank god).
 
SHC1984 said:
No, which makes it easier to relocate to somewhere out in the middle of nowhere for jobs. :laugh:
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don't go to SF then...I just did a salary comparison..holy moly I have to make like a lot of money to live there with a similar lifestyle I have now.
 
Passion4Sci said:
Yarrr... everything is very expensive here. =-/
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Don't forget....I went to SC...so lived in OC and LA.... then I lived near Sacramento during the real estate boom...So I've spent my share of time out in CA...both Southern and Northern.. Yet, I left CA twice.. I don't think I'm going back. But I'll keep my license current.
 
Project2015 said:
Pretty similar to LA/OC though, no?
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Speaking of how expensive Cali is...P4Sci, I just went with my gf to check out that house in Tucson. It's awesome- beautiful views and hiking trails, large yard, hardwood floors, fireplace, arizona room...the couple is willing to drop the rent a hundred bucks to 1100 if we sign a two year lease :) man, y'all need to move out of the blackhole that cali is.
 
Its Z said:
don't go to SF then...I just did a salary comparison..holy moly I have to make like a lot of money to live there with a similar lifestyle I have now.
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SF is just a dream. I most likely would not move there b/c I don't know anyone there. Plus it is very expensive. I will most likely have to relocate to some crappy place for 3 years to pay off my student loans. Then I can choose a nice place to live at.

You are soooooo LUCKY that you have the most kick a** job ever and don't ever have to stress out about looking for a job!
 
rxlea said:
Speaking of how expensive Cali is...P4Sci, I just went with my gf to check out that house in Tucson. It's awesome- beautiful views and hiking trails, large yard, hardwood floors, fireplace, arizona room...the couple is willing to drop the rent a hundred bucks to 1100 if we sign a two year lease :) man, y'all need to move out of the blackhole that cali is.
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awww, I miss Tucson.
 
Frog N Firkin has amazing food. I still lust after "Green Fries" - with melted brie and pesto. Not to forget an amazing beer menu.

And Nico's.

And Eegee's.

*sigh*
 
njac said:
Frog N Firkin has amazing food. I still lust after "Green Fries" - with melted brie and pesto. Not to forget an amazing beer menu.

And Nico's.

And Eegee's.

*sigh*
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We saw frog n firkin when we were down there. Seems like everyone loves that place. I like the mexican restaurant Mi Nidito...best flautas ever.
 
They had an awesome shooting range in Tucson, I remember visiting it once monthly while I was in training @ Fort Huachuca (Wegotcha) in hell Sierra Vista.

The guy would let military personnel fire any number of firearms for free, no rental charge, and if we wanted to switch calibers he switched ammo for us too. Was really amazing. Nothing like that out here.
 
Arizonans love their guns. We have a lot of shooting ranges like the one you described all over. And, they love military. My uncle is now retired military, but he used to take me to those places so I could learn to hold a gun and shoot. My dad (who is a cop-now-detective) thought it was important that I learn gun safety, so I learned to shoot at the age of 10. I know how to clean them and everything. Growing up here, it's like the thing to learn as a kid (at least it was before the hipsters started pouring in). There are a lot of hunters and cowboys out here LOL they will NEVER give up their guns without a fight :)

But, if you're ever down in Tucson, hit me up. You and the wife can crash at our place and we can go shooting together :) I haven't done it in quite a long while, so I probably need to practice a bit ;)
 
If I'm ever in CA, I should learn how to shoot from P4Sci :laugh:

Maybe ArkansasRanger could tell me if he would recommend doing that :laugh:
 
Its Z said:
We have 4 separate groups here.

1. Practicing Pharmacists warning students and prepharms of pending doom. This group knows best. Some of us are saying get out..while some of us are saying do a residency and further educate yourself to stay competitive.

2. Pharmacy students in the job market who have realized the difficult times ahead.

3. Prepharms and some pharmacy students who believe it will all be ok.

4. Non pharmacy folks.

What group are you in?
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The sad part is that group 3 does not understand that practicing pharmacists do not have to worry about their future. The trend in pharmacy is that once you are in, it will take a lot for a company to remove you. Most companies want stability and a pharmacist leaving means bad numbers for the store. What we are trying to do is protect them and let them prepare for what they are about to face.

I agree with Z, I want to protect whats left of this profession. However no matter how much I donate to groups like NCPA and NY society of pharmacist for their warchest, this battle is a losing one.
 
Aznfarmerboi said:
The sad part is that group 3 does not understand that practicing pharmacists do not have to worry about their future. The trend in pharmacy is that once you are in, it will take a lot for a company to remove you. Most companies want stability and a pharmacist leaving means bad numbers for the store. What we are trying to do is protect them and let them prepare for what they are about to face.

I agree with Z, I want to protect whats left of this profession. However no matter how much I donate to groups like NCPA and NY society of pharmacist for their warchest, this battle is a losing one.
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You donate to PSSNY or NYSCHP? NYSCHP is so damn dysfunctional.
 
Aznfarmerboi said:
The sad part is that group 3 does not understand that practicing pharmacists do not have to worry about their future. The trend in pharmacy is that once you are in, it will take a lot for a company to remove you. Most companies want stability and a pharmacist leaving means bad numbers for the store.
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You so sure about this ...?

It would seem to me that you have a lot to fear from graduating interns who know your system, know your customers, know your managers, have a (slightly) lower salary expectation and have fewer familial obligations so they can be more flexible with scheduling. You have a lot to fear from this group. Your post smacks of wishful thinking.
 
Jetninjin said:
You so sure about this ...?

It would seem to me that you have a lot to fear from graduating interns who know your system, know your customers, know your managers, have a (slightly) lower salary expectation and have fewer familial obligations so they can be more flexible with scheduling. You have a lot to fear from this group. Your post smacks of wishful thinking.
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New grads are always the worst to take. Most likely a woman in her mid to late 20s. More likely than not, they are going to have a child within 5 years of graduating. Unless they are too ugly to marry. The amount of women I personally know that I graduated with that have had children since is astounding.

Not only are they bitchy leading up to their maternity leave...they take maternity leave and abandon you for 3 months.

So unless you are ugly, sterile, or old, simply being a new grad isn't appealing at all.

I would never hire a married woman in her 20s. I'm not ****ing stupid. Bring me the post menopausal women. I swear to God, they make the best pharmacists.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Bring me the post menopausal women. I swear to God, they make the best pharmacists.
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:smuggrin:

There's a lot of truth in that... one caveat.. as long as they're not married to a rich husband. Then it's a different story..they only want to work 3 hours on certain days between their pedicure, spa treatment, and a tea party.. (non political kind)
 
Jetninjin said:
You so sure about this ...?

It would seem to me that you have a lot to fear from graduating interns who know your system, know your customers, know your managers, have a (slightly) lower salary expectation and have fewer familial obligations so they can be more flexible with scheduling. You have a lot to fear from this group. Your post smacks of wishful thinking.
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That is where you are wrong... hiring a new person is ALWAYS more costly.

This is something you will not understand unless you have been a manager. For example, is it worth it to replace an experience tech that knows everything getting paid 13$ an hour than hiring a new tech who needs a babysitter for 9 dollars? My experienced techs gets customers out three to four times as fast than a new tech who might have been on the job for 6 months and still cant help anybody because they do not know where to find the drug.

This translates to new graduates also. Chances are, the new guy will most likely not be able to handle the stress and quit in a few months. Look on craigslist, hospital pharmacy job ads, etc. You will see now that one or more years of experience required. Corporates can care less about paying a RPH more (they tell me to give or take back drugs worth hundreds everyday just to avoid complaints). They want good numbers to show to stockholders which is something that I give them...

Also, most new pharmacists usually let their emotions get to them, make a lot of mistakes, and if anything, have more expectations. This all leads to an increase in cost that managers cannot afford. In fact..., most grad interns can't handle basic tasks such as inventory management or scheduling!
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
New grads are always the worst to take. Most likely a woman in her mid to late 20s. More likely than not, they are going to have a child within 5 years of graduating. Unless they are too ugly to marry. The amount of women I personally know that I graduated with that have had children since is astounding.

Not only are they bitchy leading up to their maternity leave...they take maternity leave and abandon you for 3 months.

So unless you are ugly, sterile, or old, simply being a new grad isn't appealing at all.

I would never hire a married woman in her 20s. I'm not ****ing stupid. Bring me the post menopausal women. I swear to God, they make the best pharmacists.
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Unless she is too ambitious/career driven to have children or, in my case, her other half is the one having the kids :p
 
Also, any good manager worth his weight are usually close to the people they manage (in this case, the pharmacists), and the pharmacists to his techs.

I dont get your point as chances are the manager was probably a pharmacist at one point from the same district/region and worked with other pharmacists, knows the pharmacists from meetings and communications versus an intern whom they might have met here and there?
 
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