P1 hicp students

[LVPharm]

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Relax, you're a pharmacist. Out of the 4 or 5 pharmacists that I have bought my drugs from, I don't even know where any of them graduated from. In fact, I don't even know if they were pharmacists! I just know they were kinda cute.

True, in retail...when you pick up your meds, that is so. But when you meet a pharmacist as a colleague, especially in hospitals, the question that comes after you introduce yourself is frequently "where are you from". And by "where are you from", they want to know where you graduated from, not where you lived or where you were born. Your school and your career are inextricably linked at first until you get older, or have developed a name for yourself. I notice that nobody asks the old-timer pharmacist where or when he graduated 😉

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I'm not sure about the google maps - I did get the same error message directing me to 14605 Inspiration Court, which is not the same street as Inspiration Way, according to mapquest.com

Dunno about Monroe's house, but 837 Inspiration Way is definitely finished. You can see inside pics at the realtor link I posted.

This is so interesting to me. I am thinking about emailing one of our local news investigative teams to tell them about the 2 Louisvillians involved in this HICP scandal!

I saw this on MSNBC when they were analyzing Google stocks.

For a satellite photo of the place:

1. Go to http://maps.google.com/.

2. Then do a search on "836 INSPIRATION WAY, Louisville, KY 40245" (cut and paste it)

3. You will get an error, but you will be given the option to search a nearby home: 14605 Inspiration Ct, Louisville, KY 40245

4. Click on the satellite option.

This will get you a satellite view of the block where the Kentucky Corporation is located. You will notice a piece of dirt at where the company is supposedly located. I figured it was a piece of dirt by pinpointing it at maps.yahoo.com and locating that same point on the satellite photo, since google did not recognize the address.

Those are all new homes. They are currently not finished yet. The "Kentucky corporation" seems to be a business setup at a home not even built yet when it was registered in 01/2005.


Sorry if I'm wrong. I'm just trying to feed to the drama!

 

[All4MyDaughter]

lol i think the internet is getting toooooo powerful. we all need to just go back to the olden days of playing in the river and building model airplanes

Well, I don't know about where you are but here in Louisville playing in the river is a surefire way to induce genetic mutations in successive generations of your future offspring. No one ever eats the fish from the mighty, muddy Ohio River!

 

[LVPharm]

Honestly, I think you should sue if lisi's post (#1094) is true. Lisi essentially laid out a pretty compelling case. In fact, I thought Lisi's hidden message was "SUE THE SCHOOL."

Just to reiterate, since I mentioned it waaaay back in this thread: I know Lisi, and can vouche for his/her knowledge and experience in pharmacy school administration and accreditation issues. HICP students would be doing themselves a huge favor by heeding Lisi's advice in these matters.

I would tell students to get out now. There's no use throwing good money after bad.

...like this piece of advice. You can take that to the bank.

 

[Jeddevil]

The images from google maps are 2-3 years old. I can tell from the progress of my current neighborhood and it states it on there somewhere if you look close enough.

If you like that, go to google, type in "keyhole" and download that program. You can zoom in about anywhere in the world. Big brother is watching.

 

[johnniewest]

"837 Inspiration Way is definitely finished". Wrong! The basement is not finished yet. Look at the site that you found the home on. It states: "Basement: Bsmt Unfinished." You can not move in yet. Besides, the company was registered in 01/2005, which was about 7 months ago. I think it was just dirt back then.

Inspiration Court and Inspiration Way are parallel streets. Click on hybrid and you will see the street names.

I'm not sure about the google maps - I did get the same error message directing me to 14605 Inspiration Court, which is not the same street as Inspiration Way, according to mapquest.com

Dunno about Monroe's house, but 837 Inspiration Way is definitely finished. You can see inside pics at the realtor link I posted.

This is so interesting to me. I am thinking about emailing one of our local news investigative teams to tell them about the 2 Louisvillians involved in this HICP scandal!

 

[LVPharm]

If you like that, go to google, type in "keyhole" and download that program. You can zoom in about anywhere in the world. Big brother is watching.

Soon, Google will be able to find out what I had for breakfast this morning. I just don't want to know how! 😱

 

[DayDreamer]

"837 Inspiration Way is definitely finished". Wrong! The basement is not finished yet. Look at the site that you found the home on. It states: "Basement: Bsmt Unfinished." You can not move in yet. Besides, the company was registered in 01/2005, which was about 7 months ago. I think it was just dirt back then.

Inspiration Court and Inspiration Way are parallel streets. Click on hybrid and you will see the street names.

To clear up some confusion, I believe we all here on SDN want to find 836 Inspiration Way. We are looking for 836 Inspiration Way. Is there even an 836 that exist? Is there a house or is it a dirt lot?

837 is the house across the street or maybe next to 836, but 837 is a house.

So.... is there even a house for 836?

 

[lava2]

We are looking for 836 Inspiration Way. Is there even an 836 that exist? Is there a house or is it a dirt lot?

837 is the house across the street or maybe next to 836, but 837 is a house.

So.... is there even a house for 836?

There is a great possibility that the picture is not updated. The reason why I say this is because I searched other areas that I was familiar with and that had new housing built and completed since last year. What I found was that it only showed dirt lots with street names and NO housing shown on the google map pictures. Therefore, it is safe to conclude that there are homes NOW that exist on those lots in Kentucky, but the pictures probably are still showing the dirt lots before the homes were built.

Anyhow, I hope I was clear. BOTTOM LINE IS THOSE CROOKS BOUGHT A NEW HOME ON OUR BEHALF...HICP TUITION $$$$

 

[lava2]

All4MyDaughter: This is so interesting to me. I am thinking about emailing one of our local news investigative teams to tell them about the 2 Louisvillians involved in this HICP scandal![/QUOTE]

This would be ideal. Make that email to the local news investigative team and direct them to this forum because it will lead them to the proper contacts one way or another. They will definitely jump on a story like this.

Anything to protect the profession of pharmacy and save more lives from being harmed. After all, the crooks have taken residency in your neck of the woods and even have (or should I say had) plans of starting a college of pharmacy in the state of Kentucky.

 

[JohnUNLV]

I'm not sure about the google maps - I did get the same error message directing me to 14605 Inspiration Court, which is not the same street as Inspiration Way, according to mapquest.com

Dunno about Monroe's house, but 837 Inspiration Way is definitely finished. You can see inside pics at the realtor link I posted.

This is so interesting to me. I am thinking about emailing one of our local news investigative teams to tell them about the 2 Louisvillians involved in this HICP scandal!

If you wouldnt mind doing that, it would really help our cause. If we were to find out that Monroe is buying a huge house like that with our STOLEN tuition money, it would certainly help our case and I wouldnt mind owning a piece of that mansion. Thanks man, you're really helping, and I'm sure the local news would be very compelled, if you showed them the several articles which have been written.

 

[dgroulx]

"837 Inspiration Way is definitely finished". Wrong! The basement is not finished yet. Look at the site that you found the home on. It states: "Basement: Bsmt Unfinished." You can not move in yet. Besides, the company was registered in 01/2005, which was about 7 months ago. I think it was just dirt back then.

Inspiration Court and Inspiration Way are parallel streets. Click on hybrid and you will see the street names.

The house is complete. An "unfinished basement" means that he chose not to paint the drywall or carpet the floor. Most new houses that have basements are sold with "unfinished basements". I have an "unfinished attic". There is a door to the attic for storage, but I don't want to spend the money to finish it into habitable space.

 

[CityofAngels]

http://starbulletin.com/2005/07/23/news/story4.html

"Both of them have no experience starting a school of pharmacy," Rosenberg said of Monroe and Criswell. "It's just crazy what they're doing over there." 😱

Another story...

More and more bad publicity.... More facts are exposed through the media...
This might be only the beginning...

Don't think HICP can rebuild its crediblity and publicity.. At this rate, the school won't last more than a year..... 👎

 

[All4MyDaughter]

David Monroe's corporation is registered to 836 Inspiration Way. I don't know if there is a house on that lot. I tried to check the PVA website and it wasn't clear if a HOUSE has ever been assessed on that lot. The owner of the lot is listed as Wolford Built Homes LLC. BTW - that information might not be correct. PVA stuff is usually updated only annually.

I posted the link to the picture of 837 Inspiration Way to show what houses in that neighborhood look like. It's a safe bet that that house that is/will be at 836 Inspiration Way will be comparable. All the houses in those neighborhoods are basically alike. That's why people call them McMansions.

Also, lots of houses are sold with unfinished basements. People buy them that way because you can finish the basement for cheap later, add 1000+ to the square footage and increase your resale value by tens of thousands.

I will try to find out if there is a house on 836 Inspiration Way. If we get out that way later I will try to drive by or something.

 

[aubieRx]

Well, I don't know about where you are but here in Louisville playing in the river is a surefire way to induce genetic mutations in successive generations of your future offspring. No one ever eats the fish from the mighty, muddy Ohio River!

nor do we eat fish from the mighty(?) muddy chattahoochee (i hope i spelt that right) river

perhaps i should have specified exactly what river

 

[J Lucas]

Unreal! a motion creates a motion 👍 These articles will go along way in getting those phony charges dropped against those three students.

 

[Oneday_9]

Wow what great news! This is so amazing. The students here and at Hawaii have really pushed this issue. Now to can these phonies once and for all!

haha

 

[DayDreamer]

You know what is also interesting.....

During our White Coat Ceremony in Oct 2004, there was a table that said RESERVED for Dr. Rosenberg and whoever else that was suppose to be with him.

Did anybody else see that table? I know I'm not the only one.

Talk about misleading students.

 

[DayDreamer]

Where and what time will the hearing be held? It's a great chance for a demonstration in support of the students and against the Monroe, Criswell and Hasan. The Star Bulletin and Pacific Business News will probably be there too. Sounds like it will be fun. I plan to attend. Everyone should bring signs or banners.

Can someone share where and when? 😀

Maybe you can go call Stewart or Kristen to figure out where it is. I'm sure they know.

 

[LVPharm]

The hearing, according to the article, is supposed to occur at a Hawaii Circuit Court

http://www.courts.state.hi.us/page_server/Courts/Circuit/7E44E6F3983DFB45EBD8325F2C.html

Don't know which location...Oahu? There are information phone numbers in there if you want to give them a call.

 

[JohnUNLV]

The handbook also states that in its first year, the Hawaii College of Pharmacy and the Nevada pharmacy school "will share faculty in all areas of pharmaceutical specialty."

"I thought there was an affiliation with these people," said Mai, who was the Hawaii college's student council president. "It's on their paper; that's what it says. So what are students supposed to believe?"

Looks like we're ready for Monday's hearing!!! All HICP students must show up as a show of unity and frustration!!! And to see the look on Hasan, Monroe and Criswell's faces!!! 👍 👍 👍

Looks like they meant UH's teachers, because thats where we stole almost every single one of our professors from. What a joke, I can't wait to see Pej, Poo and Ammata own those bastards on Monday, I hope their lawyer does a good job. I wish I could attend. Someone record the hearing with those tape recorders, i want to hear it hehe.

I also, was told personally by monroe and criswell (while we were having lunch in Las Vegas, last October) that they were affilitated with NVCP and that students could transfer, such a bunch of crap.

 

[jdpharmd?]

You know what is also interesting.....

During our White Coat Ceremony in Oct 2004, there was a table that said RESERVED for Dr. Rosenberg and whoever else that was suppose to be with him.

Did anybody else see that table? I know I'm not the only one.

Talk about misleading students.

Anyone have some group photos that might have that table with name in the background? It would be interesting to see...

 

[LVPharm]

This kind of fraud needs to be reported directly to Dr. Rosenberg ...

No need to fire emails over to USN. I can say with certainty that the administration, and much of the faculty are keenly aware of what is currently taking place over there...they do read this thread, and are making their opinions known on this matter. 😉 (Re: President Rosenberg's interview) Unlike certain other pharmacy school "administrators" in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, USN has been quite open, and made its stance known from the beginning (especially after they found out the "for-profit" status of HICP). I distinctly remember a notice put up on the old NVCP website denying any formal or informal ties between the two schools. And that was back around March 2004, when HICP was a "proposed" school. A question for you guys: when then future HICP students saw this denial posted on the NVCP website last year, did it raise any "red flags"? Did anyone approach Monroe, Criswell, or any other HICP administrator about this (before coming to HICP)? If so, what was the response? I was wondering, because if I were in your shoes, I would've been saying "Oh Crap!". I thought this was the safety net that allowed some of you all to take this big chance in the first place. I want to know if they further misled you guys after your "safety net" disappeared. How did they revise their lie of saying that HICP and NVCP were "sister schools"?

This is the April 2004 cache of the old NVCP website, with denial on the right hand side: http://web.archive.org/web/20040406030547/http://nvcp.edu/

Did the HICP "administrators" continue to pedal this lie after you guys started classes last fall?

 

[ucrsandstorm]

No need to fire emails over to USN. I can say with certainty that the administration, and much of the faculty are keenly aware of what is currently taking place over there...they do read this thread, and are making their opinions known on this matter. 😉 (Re: President Rosenberg's interview) Unlike certain other pharmacy school "administrators" in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, USN has been quite open, and made its stance known from the beginning (especially after they found out the "for-profit" status of HICP). I distinctly remember a notice put up on the old NVCP website denying any formal or informal ties between the two schools. And that was back around March 2004, when HICP was a "proposed" school. A question for you guys: when then future HICP students saw this denial posted on the NVCP website last year, did it raise any "red flags"? Did anyone approach Monroe, Criswell, or any other HICP administrator about this (before coming to HICP)? If so, what was the response? I was wondering, because if I were in your shoes, I would've been saying "Oh Crap!". I thought this was the safety net that allowed some of you all to take this big chance in the first place. I want to know if they further misled you guys after your "safety net" disappeared. How did they revise their lie of saying that HICP and NVCP were "sister schools"?

This is the April 2004 cache of the old NVCP website, with denial on the right hand side: http://web.archive.org/web/20040406030547/http://nvcp.edu/

Did the HICP "administrators" continue to pedal this lie after you guys started classes last fall?

I want to clear something up. When I was quoted in the Star Bulletin by Stewart, the context in which it was given was when I received the 2003 HICP student handbook. Based on that information, statements by HICP, and Monroe, I truly thought the two were affiliated. However, from the recent news articles, I believe HICP students, USN, Dr. Rosenberg, and Jan Yagi Buen are all victims of lies, deception, and false information.

Nevada did put a disclosure on their website sometime in the spring 2004. After seeing it, I remember talking to Monroe about it . He said Nevada put that up because Nevada did not want to deal with HICP students. Nevada had put that up so HICP students won't call and bother them. Monroe did not deny that there was no Nevada connection. If fact, Monroe went on to claim that he helped start the Nevada program, playing a major role that ultimately lead to accreditation and Nevada's success. He said Dr. Rosenberg and himself had a close relationship, that's why Monroe and Criswell were asked to come out to Hawaii. Monroe, made it seem like Dr. Rosenberg was part of HICP. And that Nevada and Hawaii were working together in some fashion to get HICP accredited.

Only after reading the Star Bulletin today did I learn that NV had nothing to do with HICP. Perhaps former HICP administrators were also misled to believe the same things as HICP students. I believe the answers too some of my questions have become VERY CLEAR. However, at the time, I was lead to believe something else.

It really does show the character of the owners and administrators at HICP. Why won't they talk about it? Anyhow, I just want to say sorry. I'm also sorry USN, Dr. Rosenberg, and Jan Yagi Buen were ever dragged into this mess. I want people to know that my intentions are NOT to hurt anyone's reputation or even the current HICP students. I don't want to take away from the hard work of USN administrators and staff who created a quality pharmacy program. Nor do I want to degrade the reputation of a respected former dean and current university president. I don't want to discourage the good intentions of a former senator who only wanted something better for her state. Its obvious, people were misled and several misrepresented. It was caused by a few individuals who disreguarded "the rules" and I hope that they will be held accountable for their actions.

On Monday, my support will be with the suspended students who are scheduled to be in circuit court. I hope the truth will set them free. Good Luck to all of you. 🙂

 

[J Lucas]

Only after reading the Star Bulletin today did I learn that NV had nothing to do with HICP.

😱

 

[LVPharm]

Nevada did put a disclosure on their website sometime in the spring 2004. After seeing it, I remember talking to Monroe about it . He said Nevada put that up because Nevada did not want to deal with HICP students. Nevada had put that up so HICP students won't call and bother them. Monroe did not deny that there was no Nevada connection. If fact, Monroe went on to claim that he helped start the Nevada program, playing a major role that ultimately lead to accreditation and Nevada's success. He said Dr. Rosenberg and himself had a close relationship, that's why Monroe and Criswell were asked to come out to Hawaii. Monroe, made it seem like Dr. Rosenberg was part of HICP. And that Nevada and Hawaii were working together in some fashion to get HICP accredited.

That's a remarkable set of lies you've just documented. I'm having some trouble believing that a librarian played a major role in the accreditation process for my school. Dr. Rosenberg himself is expert in the process, having held previous deanships and founding the Western U pharmacy program...Dr. Coffman has been through the accreditation process herself when she was at Western. How "Dr." Monroe can lend anything of major significance to this situation (besides setting up a somewhat **ahem** "functional" little library) is beyond me. Also, if NVCP did not want to get "bothered" by prospective HICP students (as Monroe claimed), it would stand to reason that NVCP wouldn't issue a blanket denial of involvement to stop inquiries...NVCP would have released a statement directing all inquiries to Pacific Educational Services, and that would be that. Why would NVCP use such forceful words to deny ANY relationship between the two schools other than to "state unequivocally" that NVCP had nothing to do with HICP. In any shape, way, or form.

Anyhow, I just want to say sorry. I'm also sorry USN, Dr. Rosenberg, and Jan Yagi Buen were ever dragged into this mess. I want people to know that my intentions are NOT to hurt anyone's reputation or even the current HICP students. I don't want to take away from the hard work of USN administrators and staff who created a quality pharmacy program. Nor do I want to degrade the reputation of a respected former dean and current university president. I don't want to discourage the good intentions of a former senator who only wanted something better for her state. Its obvious, people were misled and several misrepresented. It was caused by a few individuals who disreguarded "the rules" and I hope that they will be held accountable for their actions.

Although I'm sure appreciated by other third parties dragged into this mess, your apologies aren't required...you've done a service to your cohorts and pharmacy education in general by helping to get the truth out. Thanks to you and others who have been forthcoming to the media and investigators.

On Monday, my support will be with the suspended students who are scheduled to be in circuit court. I hope the truth will set them free. Good Luck to all of you. 🙂

Good luck to everyone who shows up at the circuit court hearing. Let's hope the request for a restraining order gets denied.

 

[hawaii90210]

That's a remarkable set of lies you've just documented. I'm having some trouble believing that a librarian played a major role in the accreditation process for my school. Dr. Rosenberg himself is expert in the process, having held previous deanships and founding the Western U pharmacy program...Dr. Coffman has been through the accreditation process herself when she was at Western. How "Dr." Monroe can lend anything of major significance to this situation (besides setting up a somewhat **ahem** "functional" little library) is beyond me. Also, if NVCP did not want to get "bothered" by prospective HICP students (as Monroe claimed), it would stand to reason that NVCP wouldn't issue a blanket denial of involvement to stop inquiries...NVCP would have released a statement directing all inquiries to Pacific Educational Services, and that would be that. Why would NVCP use such forceful words to deny ANY relationship between the two schools other than to "state unequivocally" that NVCP had nothing to do with HICP. In any shape, way, or form.



Although I'm sure appreciated by other third parties dragged into this mess, your apologies aren't required...you've done a service to your cohorts and pharmacy education in general by helping to get the truth out. Thanks to you and others who have been forthcoming to the media and investigators.



Good luck to everyone who shows up at the circuit court hearing. Let's hope the request for a restraining order gets denied.

I heard from others that Pej's lawyer and Hasan's lawyer agreed to drop the charge and no case hearing is needed anymore?? can any HICP students confirm this?

 

[bananaface]

Only after reading the Star Bulletin today did I learn that NV had nothing to do with HICP.

😱

I'm surprised at that too. That information has been discussed in this thread a couple of times.

I would urge any HICP students who have not yet read this thread to take the time to do so. Over and over we see people enter with various misperceptions and reading the thread would clarify everything

 

[sharky2005]

Sometimes early in the thread there was a mentioning of another new school that is proposed by a former HICP student and her husband. How is that coming along, can someone confirm that? The news about that school is completly silent.

 

[BMBiology]

I am thrilled, not only for pharmacy students at HICP, but for the pharmacy profession as well to see pharmacy students fighting!!

We are definately the next generation of pharmacists and i am proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with you guys!

 

[CAGinseng]

Sorry. If she's a victim, that will be flushed out in court. In the mean time, the 'former Senator' was involved with this from/in the beginning and then stepped out and watched Hawaii and the HICP students get screwed! She's implicated and responsible to some degree for sure! Likewise, Rawson is no victim. He's lied to the media and the American Dental Association and many in Hawaii about both the "pharmacy school" and "dental school". These people have been on the inside of this, and made money off the pharm. students. While I agree no one is guilty until proven so...likewise, no one is innocent either. Don't be connned by Jan Yagi-Buen. Obviously she's going to say she wasn't involved! She had a reputation and record in the state legislture of being crooked....she and Rawson both!

The fact is, that People from Nevada (USN) and Jan y.Buen + others knew what was occurring or what was about to occur in Hawaii, since they had initial contact w/ Monroe & Criwell regarding this matter and stood by silently. If they all knew what was going to happen and is happening at HICP was wrong, bad, only a $$$ making business, then why did they watch from the sidelines and allow the lives and dreams of students (human beings) to be destroyed?

I comprehend that Rosenberg didn't permit or agree for his name to be used, but he was knowledgable about the plans of HICP, etc. and kept quiet.
We are talking about 240 students (human beings) lives + their families lives that have been affected forever. What about the students who left their children and/or spouses in other states and/or countries to pursue their dream in HI? Or the students with children and spouses who relocated their entire family out to HI to pursue this dream? What about the young students that are scared Sh*TL*ss and embarassed to tell their parents, family, and friends the truth about what is happening to them and the real issues of the school? What about the students who just refuse to do anything but just worry about their studies and just keep optimism alive b/c this is what the HICP faculty has told them: ("Just focus on your studies," say the HICP faculty past and present.)? What about the majority of students whose parents come from foreign countries outside the U.S. and surely have NO CLUE on the severity and seriousness of the situation, and on top of everything do NOT know anything about pharmacy schools and the ACPE?

THESE ARE THE STUDENTS THAT EXIST AT HICP. THESE ARE THE TRUE VICTIMS WHO HAVE SUFFERED, LOST TIME AND MONEY IN THEIR LIVES, AND WHO ARE TRYING TO GET QUESTIONS ANSWERED.

TO THE STUDENTS OF HICP, PLEASE DEMAND THE TRUTH B/C NOTHING BUT LIES AND MISLEADING WORDS HAVE BEEN GIVEN TO YOU.

TO THE OTHERS WHO EVEN HAVE ANY RELATION OR WHO HAVE EVEN MET OR KNOW OF MONROE, CRISWELL, AND HASAN...STAND UP AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT LIKE THE 3 YOUNG MEN AT HICP WHO HAVE INNOCENTLY BEEN SEEKING THE TRUTH.

TO MONROE AND CRISWELL: WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU WANT TO START A PHARMACY SCHOOL W/ NO EXPERIENCE, NO QUALIFIED HELP, AND NOT FOLLOW ACPE STANDARDS APPROPRIATELY????.....IT IS OBVIOUS THAT YOU WANTED THE TITLE OF BEING THE FIRST IN THE STATE OF HAWAII TO HAVE A PHARM SCHOOL AND IT WAS A BUSINESS DECISION BASED SOLEY FOR THE PURPOSE OF MONEY AND NOT FOR THE COMMUNITY OR PEOPLE OF HI NOR FOR THE PROFESSION OF PHARMACY.

 

[rxforlife2004]

I comprehend that Rosenberg didn't permit or agree for his name to be used, but he was knowledgable about the plans of HICP, etc. and kept quiet.
TO THE OTHERS WHO EVEN HAVE ANY RELATION OR WHO HAVE EVEN MET OR KNOW OF MONROE, CRISWELL, AND HASAN...STAND UP AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT LIKE THE 3 YOUNG MEN AT HICP WHO HAVE INNOCENTLY BEEN SEEKING THE TRUTH.
.

I totally disagree with your arguments here. You can't blame on Dr. Rosenberg or anybody when things go wrong. In fact, as I remember, way way back in April '04 (even before HICP first year started (Oct 04)), USN (formerly NVCP) already stated that we did not have any affiliations with HICP. So whoever did research about HICP should have noticed this. So stop blaming on Dr. Rosenberg and USN people. But blaming on those who didn't do research before attending HICP. Afterall, I believe all of HICP students are over 18 already and should be responsible for what they have been doing. You can't be easily fooled by someone if you are careful enough, right?

 

[BMBiology]

I totally agree with you CAGinseng. Let me remind the pharmacy community that, not only were Monroe and Criswell former employees of USN (formerly Nevada College of Pharmacy), but USN initially sent Monroe to Hawaii to investigate plans to start a pharmacy school there. It is also true that like HICP, USN skipped the pre-candidate accreditation process, which ensures a start up pharmacy school is on the right track toward accreditation, and USN was also initially denied of accreditation by the ACPE.

What has USN really done to protect students and equally important, the profession of pharmacy until recently? I will give credit to Lisi, an USN professor, for posting on this forum but why did USN especially the president wait until a year later before it publicly speaks out against the founders of HICP when they have adamantly claimed that HICP has been misrepresenting their assocation with USN?!! Is it only because after a couple of reporters contacted USN? I believe because USN did not want the public to know that fundamentally, at least from the start, there were associations between the 2 colleges. I sense that Monroe and Criswell played a major role in the initial plans of USN to start a pharmay school in Hawaii but when USN decided to drop their plans to focus on its own accreditation, Monroe and Criswell continued on their own. Criswell was a former financial officer of USN so I expected that she played an important role in the major decisions made by USN. The similarities between HICP and USN, from skipping the precandidate accreditation process to dropping initial plans to start another pharmacy school, are very eerie to say the least. USN may not be directing HICP but I am certain that USN played a bigger role in the initial plans of HICP than what they would like to admit.

It is because of those similarities and the fact that USN "got the ball rolling" to start a pharmacy school in Hawaii and then they stood by as they watched the founders destroyed innocent lives that I do not have any pity for the public's perception of the close ties between USN and HICP.

 

[LVPharm]

I'm speaking as an alumni, not an official of USN:
I'll do my best to hold my tongue and keep this civil, despite the absolutely rediculous assertion being made by BMBiology that, somehow, USN is in part responsible for this mess because of the fact that Monroe and Criswell are former employees of the university. ANY tenuous connection between the two schools occured early in the planning stages, WELL BEFORE students enrolled in the school. A statement to the effect of disavowing any relationship between HICP and NVCP was made in March 2004, after it became known of the "for-profit" nature of the school. I'm sorry that we don't have the huge "media relations department" of a major university to distribute this information as press releases to local print and television media (and if we did, who would give a darn about the situation at that point?). Are you stating that our accreditation procedure was in part to blame here? We started with 40 students, an appropriate amount of faculty, and an administration already accomplished in starting up the Western University program. HICP started with two individuals without any such experience, let alone a background in pharmacy, and a class of over 200 students with a handful of full time and part time faculty. I made an informed decision to attend USN (and don't regret it one iota) based on the track record of success of Drs. Rosenberg and Coffman. There's a difference between our administration knowing we were on the right track and consulting with the ACPE...and what HICP did. They seemed to be trying to copy and paste our procedures, our website, our curricular structure, etc. without any expertise, almost hoping things would fall into place.

Apparently, BMBiology wouldn't be satisfied unless NVCP administration were able to shout from the mountaintops "don't go" way back before March 2004....I just don't know how to make cynics like you happy. Oh, and if you read JohnHICP's post, EVEN AFTER they found out about the statement of denial, they listened and took as the truth the assertion of Monroe that NVCP just didn't want to be bothered with HICP students calling. There wouldn't be anything we could say or do to dissuade prospective students from the influence of these EX employees. You yourself were one of the early critics of the program, and you yourself saw how the students initially reacted to you.

 

[BMBiology]

Apparently, BMBiology wouldn't be satisfied unless NVCP administration were able to shout from the mountaintops "don't go" way back before March 2004....I just don't know how to make cynics like you happy. Oh, and if you read JohnHICP's post, EVEN AFTER they found out about the statement of denial, they listened and took as the truth the assertion of Monroe that NVCP just didn't want to be bothered with HICP students calling.

I dont think I am asking too much of USN to publicly speak out against HICP much sooner. I fully expect USN to do much more than simply posting on its website that there is no assocation between USN and HICP. If HICP misrepresented its assocation with USN on its website and handbooks, why didn't USN go to the press regarding this issue and encourage them to investigate HICP? Not only because this is the right thing to do but also because USN should feel that they have the professsional responsibility to protect the profession. I am sadden that some people on this forum probably protected the profession more than USN when it is USN that initially, although not intentionally, created this monster called HICP.

Let me remind everyone that even the dean of the University of Hawaii spoke out against HICP before USN. I am not blaming USN for what Monroe and Criswell did but I am truly disappointed that USN did not do more to protect the students and the profession of pharmacy when I am sure it was pretty obvious to them that HICP is bound to become a monster that will destroy many lives.

 

[CAGinseng]

I totally disagree with your arguments here. You can't blame on Dr. Rosenberg or anybody when things go wrong. In fact, as I remember, way way back in April '04 (even before HICP first year started (Oct 04)), USN (formerly NVCP) already stated that we did not have any affiliations with HICP. So whoever did research about HICP should have noticed this. So stop blaming on Dr. Rosenberg and USN people. But blaming on those who didn't do research before attending HICP. Afterall, I believe all of HICP students are over 18 already and should be responsible for what they have been doing. You can't be easily fooled by someone if you are careful enough, right?

For your concerned info. and anyone else...NO ONE IS BLAMING USN AND THEIR FACULTY OR ADMINISTRATION...WE ALL KNOW WHO THE GUILTY PEOPLE ARE (MONROE, CRISWELL, AND HAMMAM ADIB HASAN)

ALSO, MANY OF THE 240 STUDENTS WERE ACCCEPTED AND GAVE FULL DEPOSITS BEFORE APR. '04. THEREFORE, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO MAKE YOUR POINT STAND ABOUT THE TIME OF THAT 'NO AFFILIATION' DISCLAIMER PLACED ON USN'S WEBSITE, THAN IT SHOULD OF BEEN OUT SOMETIME LATE '03 B/C HICP ALREADY BEGAN ACCEPTING STUDENTS IN DECEMBER OF '03.

ONCE AGAIN, USN IS NOT BEING BLAMED...IT IS JUST THAT THINGS COULD OF BEEN POSSIBLY PREVENTED SINCE THEY DID HAVE SOME SORT OF INITIAL RELATIONSHIP. HOWEVER, IF IT COULD NOT OF BEEN DONE AT THE TIME FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEN IT CAN SURE BE DONE NOW B/C HICP HAS CONTINUALLY MISREPRESENTED USN AND DR. ROSENBERG BEFORE AND AFTER APRIL 2004 (OR WHATEVER THAT DATE WAS OF THAT USN WEBSITE DISCLAIMER).

ANOTHER THING, AS MORE AND MORE FACTS ARE COMING TO THE SURFACE ON THESE OWNERS OF HICP, IT IS SAFE TO SAY THAT NOBODY WHO READS THIS FORUM SHOULD BE "AMAZED" ANYMORE B/C BELIEVE IT OR NOT IT IS REALITY OCCURING BEFORE THE VERY EYES OF OUR ETHICAL PROFESSION. THIS REALITY IS COMPLIMENTS OF THE MONEY-DRIVEN LUNATICS OF HICP.

 

[flyer]

Quote:

It is also true that like HICP, USN skipped the pre-candidate accreditation process, which ensures a start up pharmacy school is on the right track toward accreditation, and USN was also initially denied of accreditation by the ACPE.


I didn't know that. At the time, what happened so they didn't get pre-candidate accreditation and then full accreditation?

 

[LVPharm]

I dont think I am asking too much of USN to publicly speak out against HICP much sooner. I fully expect USN to do much more than simply posting on its website that there is no assocation between USN and HICP. If HICP misrepresented its assocation with USN on its website and handbooks, why didn't USN go to the press regarding this issue and encourage them to investigate HICP? Not only because this is the right thing to do but also because USN should feel that they have professsional responsibility to protect the profession. I am sadden that some people on this forum probably protected the profession more than USN when it is USN that initially, although not intentionally, created this monster called HICP.

And I resent this "armchair quarterbacking" you are undertaking to pin some of the blame on my school. ONCE AGAIN, the press wouldn't give a darn about the situation way back before March 2004. Going to the press would have done ABSOLUTELY nothing. We have a hard time getting press for ourselves, let alone some proposed pharmacy program in the middle of the pacific. You know that the press is (most of the time) reactive, not proactive. They live for scandal and suffering...it's good reporting and sells papers.

Let me remind everyont that even the dean of the University of Hawaii spoke out against HICP before USN. I am not blaming USN for what Monroe and Criswell did but I am truly disappointed that USN did not do more to protect the students and the profession of pharmacy when I am sure it was pretty obvious to them that HICP is bound to become a monster.

Real easy for you to sit there and say how things should have been done in the perfect world. All of these students were grown ADULTS, able to make the decision based on their own research of those individuals involved in this endeavor. Do you honestly think this would have even a 10 second mention in a newscast or even the back page of the local Star Bulletin at that early stage? To think there could have been more done in that regard is naive.

 

[BMBiology]

Do you honestly think this would have even a 10 second mention in a newscast or even the back page of the local Star Bulletin at that early stage? To think there could have been more done is naive.

I am sorry that I expect more from your college. USN could have easily filed an complaint to the Hawaii's consumer protection agency as well. I know this is after the fact but I expect USN to have known and done a little more than most people.

You can attack me from expecting a little more from your college but I think most people agree that USN was in the position to do just a little more for these students, as well as for the profession. Unfortunately, it did not.

 

[lava2]

I'm speaking as an alumni, not an official of USN:
I'll do my best to hold my tongue and keep this civil, despite the absolutely rediculous assertion being made by BMBiology that, somehow, USN is in part responsible for this mess because of the fact that Monroe and Criswell are former employees of the university. ANY tenuous connection between the two schools occured early in the planning stages, WELL BEFORE students enrolled in the school. A statement to the effect of disavowing any relationship between HICP and NVCP was made in March 2004, after it became known of the "for-profit" nature of the school. I'm sorry that we don't have the huge "media relations department" of a major university to distribute this information as press releases to local print and television media (and if we did, who would give a darn about the situation at that point?). Are you stating that our accreditation procedure was in part to blame here? We started with 40 students, an appropriate amount of faculty, and an administration already accomplished in starting up the Western University program. HICP started with two individuals without any such experience, let alone a background in pharmacy, and a class of over 200 students with a handful of full time and part time faculty. I made an informed decision to attend USN (and don't regret it one iota) based on the track record of success of Drs. Rosenberg and Coffman. There's a difference between our administration knowing we were on the right track and consulting with the ACPE...and what HICP did. They seemed to be trying to copy and paste our procedures, our website, our curricular structure, etc. without any expertise, almost hoping things would fall into place.

Apparently, BMBiology wouldn't be satisfied unless NVCP administration were able to shout from the mountaintops "don't go" way back before March 2004....I just don't know how to make cynics like you happy. Oh, and if you read JohnHICP's post, EVEN AFTER they found out about the statement of denial, they listened and took as the truth the assertion of Monroe that NVCP just didn't want to be bothered with HICP students calling. There wouldn't be anything we could say or do to dissuade prospective students from the influence of these EX employees. You yourself were one of the early critics of the program, and you yourself saw how the students initially reacted to you.

Pharmacy students of the past, present, and future should not get divided over this situation. Monroe and Criswell already have divided many of the students at HICP by having spies who they probably have given false promises to, and also by unfairly ranking the class at the last desperate minute thinking they will solve their unrepairable problems.

My point is that we all should stand together and seek what is right. I am sure there are only a limited amount of people who know all or most of the facts to how this school started. So, if anyone is or has gotten invovled in the HICP scam, whether intentionally or unintentionally, then let's seek justice and take down the criminals who have done things without consent. What has been done is DONE...the question now everyone should ask themselves is whether or not they can do something to stop this madness from harming more people in the near future.

BMBiology and LVPharm...the two of you get nothing but respect from me based on your past and previous posts on SDN forum.

 

[lisi]

I totally agree with you CAGinseng. Let me remind the pharmacy community that, not only were Monroe and Criswell former employees of USN (formerly Nevada College of Pharmacy), but USN initially sent Monroe to Hawaii to investigate plans to start a pharmacy school there. It is also true that like HICP, USN skipped the pre-candidate accreditation process, which ensures a start up pharmacy school is on the right track toward accreditation, and USN was also initially denied of accreditation by the ACPE.

What has USN really done to protect students and equally important, the profession of pharmacy until recently? I will give credit to Lisi, an USN professor, for posting on this forum but why did USN especially the president wait until a year later before they publicly speak out against the founders of HICP when they have adamantly claimed that HICP has been misrepresenting their assocation with USN?!! Is it only because after a couple of reporters contacted USN? I believe because USN did not want the public to know that fundamentally, at least from the start, there were associations between the 2 colleges. I sense that Monroe and Criswell played a major role in the initial plans of USN to start a pharmay school in Hawaii but when USN decided to drop their plans to focus on its own accreditation, Monroe and Criswell continued on their own. Criswell was a former financial officer of USN so I expected that she played an important role in the major decisions made by USN. The similarities between HICP and USN, from skipping the precandidate accreditation process to dropping initial plans to start another pharmacy school, are very eerie to say the least. USN may not be directing HICP but I am certain that USN played a bigger role than what they would like to admit.

It is because of those similarities and the fact that USN "got the ball rolling" to start a pharmacy school in Hawaii and then they stood by as they watched the founders destroyed innocent lives that I do not have any pity for the public's perception of the close ties between USN and HICP.

Let me set the record straight. As LVPharm has stated, I am in a position to KNOW, not SPECULATE what has transpired between anyone at HICP and USN.

1. Read both the Honolulu Star-Bulletin article quoting Rosenberg and the Pacific Business News quoting Coffman. Both of those quotes are accurate. Rosenberg states that he gave advice, but that Monroe "did not heed it". That must be obvious to all of you given my previous posts about how HICP has differed from USN, despite some apparant "surface" similarities.

2. We now have accounts from both Rosenberg and Yagi-Buen regarding how their names were used in association with HICP without their permission. Yagi-Buen was even deeper in than Rosenberg as she admits to putting in her own money. Rosenberg did not give them any money. I know that for a FACT.

3. BMBiology and CAGinseng have accused Rosenberg of "standing by" and "letting this happen" to HICP students. What would you have had him do? I can tell you for a fact that he found out about them admitting 240 students from a faculty member at another college of pharmacy, who knew about it before he did. That is another FACT. That should also demonstrate the degree to which he or anyone else at USN was involved with HICP by the time that students were admitted.

4. It is a joke to believe that Monroe and Criswell were founders of USN. They were hired so far after the fact that any impact they could have made was minimal at best. Criswell was more of an accountant, paying the bills, calling in payroll, than anything else. Monroe was a adequate librarian, but the librarian hired after him has done more to develop and augment USN's library than he ever did.

5. It's amazing that students took Monroe's and Criswell's word about a relationship between USN and HICP. To my knowledge, neither Rosenberg nor Coffman, nor any other faculty at USN were called. All USN faculty are listed with a phone number on the website. How hard could that have been? So let's not be so quick to blame Rosenberg for supposedly "knowing" what was going on out there any not doing anything. Again, I know for a FACT that he did not...and please....let's be realistic...how is he supposed to know what's coming out of the mouth of Monroe when he's across the Pacific Ocean? How is he supposed to know what lies Monroe is spewing out to students? He didn't even know he was the "President" of their Board of Trustees...THINK PEOPLE!!!!! Even if he were, don't you think USN's Board of Trustees might just think that would be a conflict of interest?

6. Finally, let's just look at this from the perspective of logic....Monroe has been exposed over and over again as a liar. There is no past evidence of Rosenberg having lied. Talk to any student at USN and ask them what they think of him. You will get an overwhelmingly positive response. He is a decent, honest, forthright man and does not deserve to be tarred with the same brush as Monroe.

 

[LVPharm]

lisi: Thank you! More need not be said on my part, but to echo the sentiments you described in your last point. Dr. Rosenberg is held in the highest regards by me and my fellow classmates.

 

[BMBiology]

3. BMBiology and CAGinseng have accused Rosenberg of "standing by" and "letting this happen" to HICP students. What would you have had him do? I can tell you for a fact that he found out about them admitting 240 students from a faculty member at another college of pharmacy, who knew about it before he did. That is another FACT. That should also demonstrate the degree to which he or anyone else at USN was involved with HICP by the time that students were admitted.

I think most people on this forum would agree that you have done more for the students at HICP and the profession than Dr. Rosenberg. Although I am not blaming Dr. Rosenberg, I still believe USN and Dr. Rosenberg could have done more.

Do you really think USC would stand by and let some scam misrepresents the university? Do you think USC would just post on its website that there is no assocation between USC and HICP? Don't tell me that USN does not have any lawyers working for the university to do more to protect the university and the profession of pharmacy. Please don't tell me that USN could not have done much more. Please think about it.

I think we both agree that this proves, not only be a careless mistake, but also a public disaster for USN. USN's good reputation has been tarnished because of this. I think I am done discussing this matter.

 

[JTD1972]

lisi: Thank you! More need not be said on my part, but to echo the sentiments you described in your last point. Dr. Rosenberg is held in the highest regards by me and my fellow classmates.

I agree 👍

 

[lisi]

I think most people on this forum would agree that you have done more for the students at HICP and the profession than Dr. Rosenberg. Although I am not blaming Dr. Rosenberg, I still believe USN and Dr. Rosenberg could have done more.

Do you really think USC would stand by and let some scam misrepresents the university? Do you think USC would just post on its website that there is no assocation between USC and HICP? Don't tell me that USN does not have any lawyers working for the university to do more to protect the university and the profession of pharmacy. Please don't tell me that USN could not have done much more. Please think about it.

I think we both agree that this proves, not only be a careless mistake, but also a public disaster for USN. I think I am done discussing this matter.

How do you know what Rosenberg/USN has or has not done? How do you know that he has not spoken with the Hawaii Consumer Protection Agency? How do you know that he has not registered a complaint with ACPE? How do you know that he has not spoken with the pharmacy academic community through AACP? For that matter, how do you know that he is not me? (Except that it would not be characteristic of him to defend himself as I have done) Oftentimes I have double-checked the accuracy of information that I have posted here with him. Oftentimes, I've run my advice that's been posted on this website by him for his reaction first. So to me, if I've done anything to help HICP students and the profession, it's been at least in part attributable to him.

Also, what would you have had him do? Take out a full page ad in some publication saying "Don't go to HICP"? Then Monroe and Criswell would have sued him. Remember, that whether you like it or not, there was no agency in Hawaii preventing them from starting a school (there is an agency in Nevada, by the way, that has oversight over private post-secondary institutions, who issues licenses for these schools to operate, provided that the schools meet their standards--why not talk about what's wrong with the system in Hawaii that allows such things to occur?)

If there was such a great connection, why wasn't Monroe urging skeptical students to call Rosenberg/USN and verify it for themselves? One answer: He couldn't, because then he would have been exposed. Didn't students who saw the "Rosenberg Table" at the White Coat ceremony not have Rosenberg present wonder what was going on? Should that not have been a clue?

Perhaps the only thing I would concede is that perhaps the disclaimer didn't go far enough and perhaps they should have gone after HICP for plagiarizing USN information on their website, but then again, despite HICP's laughable attemps to trademark everything, you can't really trademark a school policy or a curriculum. They certainly didn't have permission to rip off USN's website information and not long after the disclaimer was issued, HICP's website content was changed. Hindsight is always 20-20, and I can't say that knowing what is known now, that USN would or wouldn't have done exactly the same thing.

So, I'd appreciate it if you all would lay off USN and Rosenberg. To be honest with you, most of the information that any of the USN faculty and administration got regarding HICP was by reading SDN--myself included. So SDN is to be congratulated for bringing much of this to light and if Monroe and Criswell are stopped, then SDN will have played a significant role; however, on the flip side, there has also been much misinformation/speculation posted on SDN that unfortunately, is not helpful. But all in all, I think the now 1200+ SDN posts on HICP have been useful in several respects.

What concerns me now, though is "what is the end-game?" This is truly a lose-lose situation for anyone who has been at HICP, and I just don't know what outcome would change that. The only thing one could say is that at least it won't happen to anyone else and hopefully a dental school won't be the next thing.

 

[LVPharm]

I think most people on this forum would agree that you have done more for the students at HICP and the profession than Dr. Rosenberg. Although I am not blaming Dr. Rosenberg, I still believe USN and Dr. Rosenberg could have done more.

Do you really think USC would stand by and let some scam misrepresents the university? Do you think USC would just post on its website that there is no assocation between USC and HICP? Don't tell me that USN does not have any lawyers working for the university to do more to protect the university and the profession of pharmacy. Please don't tell me that USN could not have done much more. Please think about it.

I think we both agree that this proves, not only be a careless mistake, but also a public disaster for USN. USN's good reputation has been tarnished because of this. I think I am done discussing this matter.

Knowing lisi, I can tell you that he/she is in a unique position to tell you exactly what is going on at USN. When lisi says that USN was not aware of the misrepresentations of Monroe et al, that is in fact true. That Dr. Rosenberg did offer advice at the very beginning that was subsequently not taken, is in fact true. These aren't the various "I believe" statements you have made in your last few posts. These aren't suppositions, like you have been making.

I don't know where to begin with the absurdity of comparing the legal counsel available to the University of Southern California, a very large private university, and USN, a brand new private school with a very small fraction of the resources available to it in comparison. Lawyers? I can't state anything in regard to the current situation, but why would lawyers have been involved when USN had no idea that their good name was being misused by HICP at the onset?

USN's good reputation has been tarnished in your dreams! Most right minded people can see that ultimately, the blame lies mostly with a few ex-employees acting on their own...not my school. Time to go home from your "fishing expedition", because you've failed to reel in a decent catch. All of your suppositions amount to nothing more than unsubstantiated slander against USN. I used to be a fan, BMBiology, now I'm sorely disappointed in your logic.

 

[BMBiology]

How do you know what Rosenberg/USN has or has not done? How do you know that he has not spoken with the Hawaii Consumer Protection Agency? How do you know that he has not registered a complaint with ACPE? How do you know that he has not spoken with the pharmacy academic community through AACP? For that matter, how do you know that he is not me?

Dr. Rosenberg, have you done any of these things? I will not hesitate to apologize if I am wrong.

It is you who said Dr. Rosenberg found out about the large class size at HICP through a faculty member of another school. It seems like he washed his hands of HICP. I want to reiterate that I am not blaming USN or Dr. Rosenberg but I feel that USN could have done more to help the students at HICP, as well as protect the good reputation of USN.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I agree with Lisi on this one. It's Dr. Rosenburg's job to run the USN, not intervene in the affairs of an unaffiliated start up school a thousand miles away from Las Vegas.

A lot of the speculation about what Dr. Rosenburg or anyone else could or should have done is just hindsight bias. Now that all the facts are clear it is easy to look back and say, "I knew it all along!"

I seriously doubt that anyone at USN had much knowledge of what was going on at HICP and even if they suspected that things weren't 100% there, USN has no standing to interfere in the affairs of an unrelated institution.

I am not the most knowledgeable person on this topic, but I did earn my masters in higher education administration with very high marks in higher ed law, and I can't see any upside in USN trying to intervene in HICP. It probably wouldn't have helped anyway - and they could have been sued - plus it brings attention to their (now) unsavory former association with Monroe and Criswell.

Hard truth: USN (or any other college) has no obligation to protect students not enrolled in USN from actions taken by other unrelated institutions. USN's obligations are to its own students, period. You can talk about higher moral or ethical obligations to "the profession" or the greater good if you want to, but at the end of the day, it's Dr. Rosenburg's job to represent the best interests of USN. I just can't see a scenario where trying to intervene in HICP would be furthering those interests.

 

[lisi]

Dr. Rosenberg, have you done any of these things? I will not hesitate to apologize if I am wrong.

It is you who said Dr. Rosenberg found out about the large class size at HICP through a faculty member of another school. It seems like he washed his hands of HICP.

Obviously, I can't get into detail, but you are wrong. Also, the point I was trying to make about the faculty member of another school telling him about the outrageous class size, was to underscore that by the time they started admitting students, he wasn't involved. He didn't so much wash his hands of HICP, but was not privy to any information surrounding the goings-on there.

(By the way, just for the record for everyone out there, lisi is not Dr. Rosenberg).

 

[BMBiology]

Obviously, I can't get into detail, but you are wrong.

If this is true, I sincerely apologize.