PANICKING! School forcing me to defer or transfer

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Do you think they are going to just defer the amount they need to get to 135, or all the people who have whatever issue they are nitpicking? I imagine if they make one person with say an AP credit for a prereq defer they will have to make everyone with that issue defer, or they open themselves up for more scrutiny.
 
I've been wondering that myself. I'm sure they want all the tuition $ they can get so I'm sure they desire a maxed out class
 
I don't know any law so correct me if I'm wrong, but the standard for a civil lawsuit isn't innocent until proven guilty. So imagine at a court hearing, a lawyer presenting:

My clients were given offers of acceptances after two highly thorough, vetting processes: the secondary and post-interview. If everything on the application was listed factually, then it's not as though my clients "lied" about their AP credits, ect. Transcripts were verified by AACOAMS, and even as part of pre-matriculation requirements, Touro received official transcripts from the students undergraduate institutions.

After perusing the TouroCOM website, there is no indication whatsoever in the matriculation requirements, the undergraduate requirements, or the student handbook that the COM will or will not accept AP credits. The error of omission falls on the problem of Touro, not the students as to specify their policy. The students, at the moment of acceptance, had complied with all of Touro's requirements for acceptance. They had the minimum required English/Math/Biology/Inorganic/Organic Chem/Physics and MCAT requirement.

Even if the school decided to change it's policy, the fact that they did ONE MONTH before summer class started indicates severe negligence on the part of the school for not notifying students earlier, especially when many of these students had received their acceptances months ago. Furthermore, why would the school suddenly change it's policy at the conclusion of the application cycle as they are attempting to fill and mold their incoming class? As stated before, negligence at it's best, unethical and scamming at it's worst.
 
LuluLovesMe said:
Rational people change their opinion when presented with new arguments. You say this like it's a bad thing.
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Huh? I'm simply admiring your intransigent attitude towards considering other perspectives, especially one that was as logically sound as that one, through humor. Since rationality is such a forte of yours, please demonstrate it when reading this response.
 
chibaddie said:
Huh? I'm simply admiring your intransigent attitude towards considering other perspectives, especially one that was as logically sound as that one, through humor. Since rationality is such a forte of yours, please demonstrate it when reading this response.
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I did change my view so you are mistaken.
 
This is extremely embarrassing for me to read about and to be associated with Touro if what OP said is true...

OP don't settle, if I were you I'd definitely do what everyone else mentioned above and fight tooth and nail for some sort of reimbursement... Ridiculous, especially this close to the school year.

Really hope PD's don't associate this fiasco with all the Touro campuses or I'm really going to regret having attended this school instead of the more expensive options I had... who knows what they hear..
 
hopefulERdoc251 said:
I don't know any law so correct me if I'm wrong, but the standard for a civil lawsuit isn't innocent until proven guilty. So imagine at a court hearing, a lawyer presenting:

My clients were given offers of acceptances after two highly thorough, vetting processes: the secondary and post-interview. If everything on the application was listed factually, then it's not as though my clients "lied" about their AP credits, ect. Transcripts were verified by AACOAMS, and even as part of pre-matriculation requirements, Touro received official transcripts from the students undergraduate institutions.

After perusing the TouroCOM website, there is no indication whatsoever in the matriculation requirements, the undergraduate requirements, or the student handbook that the COM will or will not accept AP credits. The error of omission falls on the problem of Touro, not the students as to specify their policy. The students, at the moment of acceptance, had complied with all of Touro's requirements for acceptance. They had the minimum required English/Math/Biology/Inorganic/Organic Chem/Physics and MCAT requirement.

Even if the school decided to change it's policy, the fact that they did ONE MONTH before summer class started indicates severe negligence on the part of the school for not notifying students earlier, especially when many of these students had received their acceptances months ago. Furthermore, why would the school suddenly change it's policy at the conclusion of the application cycle as they are attempting to fill and mold their incoming class? As stated before, negligence at it's best, unethical and scamming at it's worst.
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This is not how the law works. At all. Do you know who knows how the law works? A lawyer. OP (and others), just get one already. You don't have to pursue a lawsuit, make a spectacle, put your name on public court documents, etc. There are many, many, many remedies available here.

Lots of good options suggested so far: like contacting the State Attorney General, starting to document (and dig up) every single correspondence, organising with other students (always strength in numbers), consider deferring, etc. But FFS just get a lawyer.

I guarantee that the quiet ones will get the most shafted.

And will people please stop offering legal advice? Like on third-party recording? Who has the qualification to give that advice? Wikipedia JD? What if OP (or others) made the call from Connecticut? Or the Dean reached out to you personally from New Jersey? What law applies? Is that federal, or state, or both, or one state but not the other? Even seemingly simple things can get really complicated. If anybody here started offering medical advice for somebody's ouchy pinky, this whole thread would get shut down.

I'm sorry at what a ****-show this is for you guys.
 
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I wonder what kind of nonsense they'll have for us today (Monday).
 
hexane19 said:
I wonder what kind of nonsense they'll have for us today (Monday).
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It's going to get worse before it gets better, imo
The dean is out for summer break (understandable). The summer courses start today so the staff will be busy with the students probably. Many students (including myself) are planning to call in a few hours. I don't know. We will see.

I'm also getting a sence that this is more arbitrary than what I previously thought. It seems like the louder, more aggressive students were able to bark back last week while the quieter ones just nodded and agreed to transfer/deferral. Not fair for the students that accepted deferment last week.
 
I withdrew my acceptance. It opens up once space. I encourage everybody who has been accepted to another school, to withdraw (if they have a choice) to open up room for others who have no choice at this point. It could have been us in their place. If you can, do it. I'm sure people who are caught in this mess will truly appreciate it.
 
Pezeveng said:
It's going to get worse before it gets better, imo
The dean is out for summer break (understandable). The summer courses start today so the staff will be busy with the students probably. Many students (including myself) are planning to call in a few hours. I don't know. We will see.

I'm also getting a sence that this is more arbitrary than what I previously thought. It seems like the louder, more aggressive students were able to bark back last week while the quieter ones just nodded and agreed to transfer/deferral. Not fair for the students that accepted deferment last week.
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As sad and unfair as it is, if you do matriculate to this school please keep this in mind. You have every right to be aggressive because you did nothing wrong. Sometimes a bit of aggressiveness gets things done at Touro. Ask any of the upperclassmen about the great wireless saga of 2015..

Good luck, I hope it all clears up for you guys.
 
Do to the happy accident of geography that my school is west of the Mississippi River, we get a decent number of students who are from CA.
They choose us over east coast MD schools because they can stay closer to family, so geographic conerns do trump MD > DO for some very good students. But we digress.


A sizable number are represented. So I would disagree with the blanket statement that picking a school for environment is foolish.
 
I don't know about everyone else, but this thread really made me appreciate the small things my school did/is doing to help incoming students, from sending reminder emails about deposits, to calling each student individually and checking in a month before school starts, sending us facebook reminders when surveys are due, asking about dietary restrictions for lunch, etc. I thought all schools did these basic things but now I am just so much more appreciative of all the small things.
 
Ioannes Paulus said:
I don't know about everyone else, but this thread really made me appreciate the small things my school did/is doing to help incoming students, from sending reminder emails about deposits, to calling each student individually and checking in a month before school starts, sending us facebook reminders when surveys are due, asking about dietary restrictions for lunch, etc. I thought all schools did these basic things but now I am just so much more appreciative of all the small things.
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I'm incoming for Touro- Middletown campus and the administration similarly has been quite active in sending email reminders about every step of the matriculation process. They've also been very responsive to my inquiries.

I thought that Harlem, being the senior campus, would be better...
 
Any updates? It seems like this thread is garnering the attention of all of SDN
 
Henry101 said:
Any updates? It seems like this thread is garnering the attention of all of SDN
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No updates. All my calls went straight to voicemail. I got no responses to my emails. It seems, however, that there were indeed people working today because others got emails.
I've also consulted a mentor whose a physician who said to pull out, ask my deposit back, keep my mouth shut, do an MPH at Thomas Jefferson or Penn State, gain state residency, and apply to DO/MD schools in Pennsylvania. This will probably open enough doors to do an EM residency in NYC metro area which is my professional goal.
You know what's the funniest part about this whole thing? I actually didn't send my secondary to NYITCOM because I thought, with a class size of 320, I wouldn't get a personalized education and suffer under the inefficient bureaucracy and poor pre-clinical didactics that everyone complains about. Jokes on me! Seems like both the NY DO schools are seriously in need of some major changes.
 
Pezeveng said:
No updates. All my calls went straight to voicemail. I got no responses to my emails. It seems, however, that there were indeed people working today because others got emails.
I've also consulted a mentor whose a physician who said to pull out, ask my deposit back, keep my mouth shut, do an MPH at Thomas Jefferson or Penn State, gain state residency, and apply to DO/MD schools in Pennsylvania. This will probably open enough doors to do an EM residency in NYC metro area which is my professional goal.
You know what's the funniest part about this whole thing? I actually didn't send my secondary to NYITCOM because I thought, with a class size of 320, I wouldn't get a personalized education and suffer under the inefficient bureaucracy and poor pre-clinical didactics that everyone complains about. Jokes on me! Seems like both the NY DO schools are seriously in need of some major changes.
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If you can get into one of the Philly schools, you'll be in relatively short driving distance from NYC for weekend trips, but have significantly less COL and hassle from the craziness that is NYC. If you get PA residence, I'd apply to TCMC also, as they're newer and stats are on the lower side.
 
@Pezeveng what happened to you happened to me also. I have not posted my situation in the fb group, because I luckily got accepted to my top choice for med school right after receiving the bad news that I was going to have to defer for a year. I think you have received a lot of good advice in this thread, but I also recommend you let your premed advisor know about your situation and ask him/her for help. It is much easier for the administration to push you around, when they are in a position of power and you have no good options. However, the school cannot bully your premed advisor around. Just my opinion. I withdrew my acceptance, so hopefully that might help slightly but I doubt it will given the number of people the over accepted. I wish you the best of luck., and hope everything works out for you.
 
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WinterIsComing30 said:
I've been wondering that myself. I'm sure they want all the tuition $ they can get so I'm sure they desire a maxed out class
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What was the reason they gave you for deferment?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
@winteriscoming1 @Big&Juicy @bws10 You guys call AACOMAS NOW! They are getting a bunch of calls from Touro students and are checking files/requirements. Just got off the phone with them. They were incredibly helpful. Ask them to send you an email about confirming academic requirement completion for Touro's DO program. (617) 612-2889 They close at 5PM ET. I tried messaging some of you and you have your messaging features off.
 
No, they just said that they were moving me to the Middletown campus
 
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Big&Juicy said:
No, they just said that I had put no preference on my secondary so they were moving me to the Middletown campus. All of my contact had been through Harlem though. Interviewed there 1/13 and got accepted 1/26.
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Wait, so they told you that you were going to Harlem in January and then now in June (5 months later) when you likely already had housing and accommodations set up, they told you, whoops, we're sending you to Middletown? That's still really messed up.

I've seen schools offer satellite spots to people on the waitlist, but changing campuses on you with a month left to start is ridiculous. This really gets worse and worse.

I would honestly contact COCA and the AOA about this. Its ridiculous. Obviously its up to you given that its a risk, but I can't imagine this being OK from any reasonable standard.
 
@Big&Juicy I still can't message you for some reason. Call back the Deans and make your case. Tell them about signing leases and the deposits and everything. fight for it dude. Do what that other student did.
 
This is absolutely ridiculous. I'm so grateful for the administration at my school and feel for you guys in such a ****ty situation. Be aggressive and definitely fight back!
 
Not that I can help because I'd truly love to but..

I still I don't understand how some these schools are able to operate not-for-profit.

Its just so shady. How is this not being regulated somewhere along the line? Even the AP credits thing. They are saying that students aren't as qualified to learn medicine because they were able to pass Calculus or English in high school at age 18 instead of age 19 in college. Its just so shameless. Most of these students genuinely want to do this to help people and make the country a better place and this is what they are met with.
 
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Pezeveng said:
@Big&Juicy I still can't message you for some reason. Call back the Deans and make your case. Tell them about signing leases and the deposits and everything. fight for it dude. Do what that other student did.
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Good to see you taking some action, OP. Hope it works out for you!
 
MrChance2 said:
Not that I can help because I'd truly love to but..

I still I don't understand how some these schools are able to operate not-for-profit.

Its just so shady. How is this not being regulated somewhere along the line? Even the AP credits thing. They are saying that students aren't as qualified to learn medicine because they were able to pass Calculus or English in high school at age 18 instead of age 19 in college. Its just so shameless. Most of these students genuinely want to do this to help people and make the country a better place and this is what they are met with.
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Funnily enough, Touro NY makes a profit of $23 million each year. This whole situation could have been mitigated by offering 2 years free to any student that wish to defer.

But our admin needs that cash oh so desperately to buy NYMC and to open Touro Dental school!

http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/fy2013-RevandExpbyCOM.pdf?sfvrsn=36
 
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Pezeveng said:
@winteriscoming1 @Big&Juicy @bws10 You guys call AACOMAS NOW! They are getting a bunch of calls from Touro students and are checking files/requirements. Just got off the phone with them. They were incredibly helpful. Ask them to send you an email about confirming academic requirement completion for Touro's DO program. (617) 612-2889 They close at 5PM ET. I tried messaging some of you and you have your messaging features off.
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I already emailed AACOMAS and they said that no such "deficiency" report was ever sent. What did they tell you on the phone?
 
doczebra said:
Funnily enough, Touro NY makes a profit of $23 million each year. This whole situation could have been mitigated by offering 2 years free to any student that wish to defer.

But our admin needs that cash oh so desperately to buy NYMC and to open Touro Dental school!

http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/fy2013-RevandExpbyCOM.pdf?sfvrsn=36
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Based on your sheet and total enrollment in 2013, I estimated Touro-NY making $42,339/student per year and RVUCOM making $15,337/student per year. Interestingly, my school makes $14,205/student per year. They all seem like a lot. Didn't do the rest, but from eyeballing they seem all over the place.
 
A concerned person already affected by this PM'd me that the NY Times is going to be looking into this. EDIT: see Pezeveng's post below

I suggest that students victimized by Touro-NY's practices here contact the following:

NYC and NYS Attorney General's office
All major NYC newspapers (including Newsday)
AACOMAS
COCA
Touro's CEO/President/Chancellor, or whoever else is at the top of their food chain.

What Touro-NY needs to do is take the moral high ground, bite the financial bullet, and offer scholarships to students who will accept deferment or transfer to Middletown.

And just to verify, up until now, Touro-NY had been OK with AP credits? And C's in pre-reqs???
 
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Goro said:
A concerned person already affected by this PM'd me that the NY Times is going to be looking into this. I suggest that students victimized by Touro-NY's practices here contact the following:

NYC and NYS Attorney General's office
All major NYC newspapers (including Newsday)
AACOMAS
COCA
Touro's CEO/President/Chancellor, or whoever else is at the top of their food chain.

What Touro-NY needs to do is take the moral high ground, bite the financial bullet, and offer scholarships to students who will accept deferment or transfer to Middletown.

And just to verify, up until now, Touro-NY had been OK with AP credits? And C's in pre-reqs???
Click to expand...


Per their website:

https://tourocom.touro.edu/admissions--aid/do-applicants/academic-requirements/

So only if you are currently completing the pre-requisites are you required to earn a B or higher. Nowhere does it mention anything about their AP policy or their minimum pre-requisite requirements!
 
Goro said:
A concerned person already affected by this PM'd me that the NY Times is going to be looking into this. I suggest that students victimized by Touro-NY's practices here contact the following:

NYC and NYS Attorney General's office
All major NYC newspapers (including Newsday)
AACOMAS
COCA
Touro's CEO/President/Chancellor, or whoever else is at the top of their food chain.

What Touro-NY needs to do is take the moral high ground, bite the financial bullet, and offer scholarships to students who will accept deferment or transfer to Middletown.

And just to verify, up until now, Touro-NY had been OK with AP credits? And C's in pre-reqs???
Click to expand...

The "concerned student" you're referring to isn't even a Touro student. Lots of pre-meds and other bogus people that have nothing to do with the school seem to have infiltrated our facebook page and feeding information to outside outlets. We're handling this internally. The school just changed staff last week and we're finding out that new people have been appointed to different positions who are beginning to cooperate. This would explain why our emails weren't being responded. The LAST thing we need is to involve the NY Times.
 
Pezeveng said:
The "concerned student" you're referring to isn't even a Touro student. Lots of pre-meds and other bogus people that have nothing to do with the school seem to have infiltrated our facebook page and feeding information to outside outlets. We're handling this internally. The school just changed staff last week and we're finding out that new people have been appointed to different positions who are beginning to cooperate. This would explain why our emails weren't being responded. The LAST thing we need is to involve the NY Times.
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This may be the case, but I'd still recommend contacting COCA. You can make it clear that Touro is now correcting this mess, but that it shouldn't have even been possible for it to happen in the first place.

Touro-NY may be the first to do something this ridiculous, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are other schools (potentially newer ones) that might try to pull this sort of thing in the future. I'd like to see a policy change that would protect matriculants and prevent such a thing from happening to anyone else.

I agree that if Touro is making good on everything, its not necessary to get a lot of media attention.
 
hallowmann said:
This may be the case, but I'd still recommend contacting COCA. You can make it clear that Touro is now correcting this mess, but that it shouldn't have even been possible for it to happen in the first place.

Touro-NY may be the first to do something this ridiculous, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are other schools (potentially newer ones) that might try to pull this sort of thing in the future. I'd like to see a policy change that would protect matriculants and prevent such a thing from happening to anyone else.

I agree that if Touro is making good on everything, its not necessary to get a lot of media attention.
Click to expand...

Yeah many of us have already contacted COCA. They are conducting an audit as well.
 
Pezeveng said:
The "concerned student" you're referring to isn't even a Touro student. Lots of pre-meds and other bogus people that have nothing to do with the school seem to have infiltrated our facebook page and feeding information to outside outlets. We're handling this internally. The school just changed staff last week and we're finding out that new people have been appointed to different positions who are beginning to cooperate. This would explain why our emails weren't being responded. The LAST thing we need is to involve the NY Times.
Click to expand...
 
Got final confirmation that I have met the pre-recs. I will be matriculating at Touro-NY.
Very happy about the final outcome. It seems like the change of administrators is what caused this fiasco. Once the dean of the college stepped in, it looks like it was handled promptly. I'm very happy that I can live close to my partner and can start my life in New York City!!
Mistakes happen. We're all human. I'm happy Touro was able to correct this in a two week span.
Lesson to everyone else:
-NEVER PANIC
-Make sure everything is in writing.
-Read the fine print in these admission pamphlets.
-NEVER be afraid to ask questions during the interview day and admission process
-This CAN be resolved promptly without contacting a lawyer or the press.
 
Goro said:
A concerned person already affected by this PM'd me that the NY Times is going to be looking into this. I suggest that students victimized by Touro-NY's practices here contact the following:

NYC and NYS Attorney General's office
All major NYC newspapers (including Newsday)
AACOMAS
COCA
Touro's CEO/President/Chancellor, or whoever else is at the top of their food chain.

What Touro-NY needs to do is take the moral high ground, bite the financial bullet, and offer scholarships to students who will accept deferment or transfer to Middletown.

And just to verify, up until now, Touro-NY had been OK with AP credits? And C's in pre-reqs???
Click to expand...

lol so glad I dodged this bullet(by luck).
 
Jesus christ I can't even believe this **** storm happened.

Handling it internally? Mistakes happen, we're all human? I'm glad it worked out for you, but it sounds like a number of students were strong armed into changing campuses out of fear for losing their seats. What happened to them?

I'm suspicious that this was simply a mistake over a change in administrators. This sounds like they dug themselves a huge hole and when it started looking bleak for them, they changed staff to wipe their hands clean of the mess.
 
ONE FINAL LESSON:
Some schools accept AP credit, some schools don't. Some schools accept community college credit, some schools don't. Some school's require biochemistry, some school's don't. Some schools now require the new MCAT, some schcool's don't.
It's YOUR job, not the schools, to inquire about these concerns and issues IN WRITING and follow up ASAP. When you're app is incomplete, as mine seemingly was, you are at the mercy of the school. Save yourself the problems and handle these situations in writing.
 
I agree. While it's wonderful that things worked out for you, there are quite a few students who received an acceptance and still haven't gotten things squared away. Perhaps they actually might need legal representation or more. This isn't the first weird, screwed up thing to happen at Touro and I'm almost certain that it won't be the last. Maybe some exposure via a NYTimes article is what the administration needs to start doing right by its students.

Frankly, I don't think I'll ever understand how someone with an allegedly incomplete application can be screened, interviewed, and accepted. But hey.
 
Pezeveng said:
Got final confirmation that I have met the pre-recs. I will be matriculating at Touro-NY.
Very happy about the final outcome. It seems like the change of administrators is what caused this fiasco. Once the dean of the college stepped in, it looks like it was handled promptly. I'm very happy that I can live close to my partner and can start my life in New York City!!
Mistakes happen. We're all human. I'm happy Touro was able to correct this in a two week span.
Lesson to everyone else:
-NEVER PANIC
-Make sure everything is in writing.
-Read the fine print in these admission pamphlets.
-NEVER be afraid to ask questions during the interview day and admission process
-This CAN be resolved promptly without contacting a lawyer or the press.
Click to expand...


I'm so glad to hear of a positive outcome that didn't need to involve lawsuits.

(While full on panic is not generally beneficial, never underestimate the power of the threat to expose bad faith on the part of an institution. Malfeasance can easily convert to a "mistake" or "a big misunderstanding" when it becomes clear that there might be consequences.)
 
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