Parent has high income, but they aren't supporting me

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Job55

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My parent makes ~350k per year, but they will not be supporting me whatsoever during medical school. Why am I still required to submit their financial info for need-based financial aid? Is this going to destroy my chances of receiving any need-based aid? I apologize if I am posting in the wrong space.
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Job55 said:
Why am I still required to submit their financial info for need-based financial aid?
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Because those are the rules that our wonderful federal government has made.

Job55 said:
Is this going to destroy my chances of receiving any need-based aid?
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Yes. Since the rules state need based aid is based off of parent's income.
 
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Isoval said:
If you declare yourself as an independent, I think you may be able to get around this issue.
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That's the major question. I am declared as an independent but have been told by like 3 schools at interview day that I MUST submit parental info for need-based financial aid.
 
Tell you parents about your requirements. Hope they will understand.
 
Problem is here is that many people could lie and say they’re not supported by their parents to get need-based aid. They likely do it this way to make it more “fair” to people like me who’s parents made a combined 30k last year. It totally sucks all around, but thankfully loans will cover it all if you don’t get any additional help from your school. Some schools are much more generous with aid than others.
 
ciestar said:
My school requires parental information for need-based aid if you’re not married.
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Right! Not only your school but most of the schools need parents information before admitting.
 
priormatt said:
Right! Not only your school but most of the schools need parents information before admitting.
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I don't think most schools need it before admitting, but most schools let you know that you won't get need based aid without giving them your parents info.
 
Your parents' income has no bearing on your eligibility for federal or private student loans, nor does it alter your eligibility for merit-based aid unless that aid also has a need component. Your parents' income does influence the amount of need-based scholarship money you might receive, and that makes sense for exactly the reason @ciestar cited: your parents surely won't let you starve if push comes to shove, but there are other students whose parents are too poor to help even if they wanted to. A little while back, I wrote a guide on financing medical education that I recommend you read: HomeSkool's Guide to Financing Your Medical Education.

Isoval said:
If you declare yourself as an independent, I think you may be able to get around this issue.
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Perhaps, but that depends on the school. Professional students are considered independent for the purposes of federal financial aid, so a separate declaration of independence won't make any difference on that front. But individual schools may have their own policies about who is and isn't independent for the purposes of institutionally-awarded scholarships. I wouldn't count on it, though.
 
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It's because your parents make enough to help their child so they should help their child . . .

The majority of parents arent dinguses who wouldn't help their child if they had to. If this were not the case then everyone who applies to medical school would apply as an independent and take financial aid from those who actually need and give to kids whose parents are just too stingy to help their child.

Unless you have a terrible relationship with your parents and don't even speak with them then you might be granted an exception.
 
FlavivirusProtease said:
I don't think most schools need it before admitting, but most schools let you know that you won't get need based aid without giving them your parents info.
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^This. If you choose not to provide it, it won’t be held against you in the grand scheme, but you give up the chance of need-based in doing so. It won’t stop you from getting loans, at least.
 
That's a rough situation. How old are you? Why won't your wealthy parents provide you with any financial support? Can you negotiate with them to loan you money that you will eventually pay back but not at the ridiculous grad interest rates that force debtors to pay back twice what they take?
 
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As a parent, I have paid for undergraduate tuition of my two med school bound children, and I have no intention to pay for their med school education, which are their responsibilities as adults any way. However, I may be able to provide some private loans to them, and you may want to check with your parents for that option?
 
WorldIsFlat said:
As a parent, I have paid for undergraduate tuition of my two med school bound children, and I have no intention to pay for their med school education, which are their responsibilities as adults any way. However, I may be able to provide some private loans to them, and you may want to check with your parents for that option?
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Are you wealthy? Why is it their responsibility to take on crushing debt, forcing them to pay back twice what they take out and thereby potentially affecting their choice of residency specialization, if their parents are wealthy enough to pay for their education without sacrificing their quality of life?
 
Dr. Meliodas said:
It's because your parents make enough to help their child so they should help their child . . .

The majority of parents arent dinguses who wouldn't help their child if they had to. If this were not the case then everyone who applies to medical school would apply as an independent and take financial aid from those who actually need and give to kids whose parents are just too stingy to help their child.

Unless you have a terrible relationship with your parents and don't even speak with them then you might be granted an exception.
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Exactly. Most parents wouldn’t hesitate to throw money at their kid if they have the means to do so if they needed it for things like food.... my parents wouldn’t be able to at all. That also probably factors into things being setup the way they are.

You also bring up a fair point. Relationships are what they are and sometimes schools do grant an exception if you can attest to having no relationship/contact and therefore you won’t be supported. It happens with students who’s parents walked out on them.
 
DubbiDoctor said:
Are you wealthy? Why is it their responsibility to take on crushing debt, forcing them to pay back twice what they take out and thereby potentially affecting their choice of residency specialization, if their parents are wealthy enough to pay for their education without sacrificing their quality of life?
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..because they’re adults? My friend’s parents did the same thing.
 
ciestar said:
..because they’re adults? My friend’s parents did the same thing.
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They can do what they want, but let's not pretend that parents have a moral obligation to not pay for their children's professional education, thereby making their lives more difficult. If you're wealthy enough to easily pay off your children's educational debt, but refuse to, I think that testifies poorly to your character and concern and compassion for your children.
 
I am in a similar situation, except that 2016 was the one year where my parents made an exceptional amount of money based on a one-off situation. Their yearly income is actually modest at best, so they won't be able to provide aid to me either.

So far I have received a fat 0 amount of aid from the schools that have gotten back to me. Since most aid is need-based, I have to rely on merit based aid which is pretty rare and unlikely to happen for me...

So you aren't alone in this situation of having to actually take loans out for the full sticker price. Very few students actually have to pay that full price, but we both have the perfect situation where we are screwed over royally.
 
DubbiDoctor said:
Are you wealthy? Why is it their responsibility to take on crushing debt, forcing them to pay back twice what they take out and thereby potentially affecting their choice of residency specialization, if their parents are wealthy enough to pay for their education without sacrificing their quality of life?
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Because you're an adult and that "Crushing Debt" that you will carry for the rest of your life is honestly just the average yearly salary of a physician in the USA.
 
DubbiDoctor said:
They can do what they want, but let's not pretend that parents have a moral obligation to not pay for their children's professional education, thereby making their lives more difficult. If you're wealthy enough to easily pay off your children's educational debt, but refuse to, I think that testifies poorly to your character and concern and compassion for your children.
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Did you seriously just stoop to that? What gives you the right to pass judgment on other people because they don't share your values or world view? People do not lack compassion for their children just because they decline to be financially liable for the expensive training programs their adult children elect to enter.
 
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DubbiDoctor said:
They can do what they want, but let's not pretend that parents have a moral obligation to not pay for their children's professional education, thereby making their lives more difficult. If you're wealthy enough to easily pay off your children's educational debt, but refuse to, I think that testifies poorly to your character and concern and compassion for your children.
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Parents have an obligation to provide housing, food and clothing to their children up to age 18. Many parents also pay for undergraduate schooling. But after that they should be paying nothing, whether they can afford it or not...and it has nothing to do with their compassion and character for their children! Should they also pay for his first house? And his car? And Insurance? And why not pay all their vacations and CC bills too because the child having to pay them would make life more difficult.

Parents who don't pay for these things are doing their children a favor...by teaching them to make it on their own...not to let mommy and daddy pay their way through life just because they have the means to do so.
 
Honestly, the entitlement of some people on here reeks. “My parents make 300k therefore some of it belongs to me”. Wake up and smell the hummus.

Once you turn 18, your parents don’t have to give you anything.

Plus, if you wait till your 25, you are considered an independent.
 
FlavivirusProtease said:
Because you're an adult and that "Crushing Debt" that you will carry for the rest of your life is honestly just the average yearly salary of a physician in the USA.
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I'm not going to argue whether parents should pay or not.... BUT

Average physician salary (according to my 2 second google) is $189,000. My school will require I take out $350k in loans to pay off, which are all unsubsidized now thanks to our wonderful government and come with a 4.5% FEE. With a likely 5 year residency after school, I will be likely looking at around 600k or more total after the interest. So I could work as a physician and put my entire salary towards my loans (no rent or anything) and thanks to taxes it would still take 5+ years to pay off. In reality, I will be living well under my means for at least a decade after finishing my training. THAT is pretty crushing.
 
HomeSkool said:
Did you seriously just stoop to that? What gives you the right to pass judgment on other people because they don't share your values or world view?
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We are never allowed to judge people who differ in terms of values and worldview? In a sense that's the *only* thing we judge people on. If you're unnecessarily rude, that's because you don't value cordiality. If you rob from someone, that's because you don't value someone's property. If you harshly judge radical Islamic countries where women are oppressed, you disagree with their values, which in this case fundamentally shape their worldview.

So yes I place a value on being supportive of your family, whether or not they're adults. I want to live in a world where family ties matter. And if you're in the position to make your children's lives significantly easier and better (and I don't mean by spoiling them but by relieving massive debt, which contributes to high levels of stress among med students and graduates), without affecting your quality of life to any appreciable measure, I think you ought to. In return, I think children should help out their parents in old age, when they're sick and frail and need support - possibly financially, definitely emotionally.
 
I did not have to provide my parent's income on FAFSA, since I am an independent adult in my 30s, but I did have to provide their income info to my schools for need-based consideration.
 
tbonez71 said:
I'm not going to argue whether parents should pay or not.... BUT

Average physician salary (according to my 2 second google) is $189,000. My school will require I take out $350k in loans to pay off, which are all unsubsidized now thanks to our wonderful government now and come with a 4.5% FEE. With a likely 5 year residency after school, I will be likely looking at around 600k or more. So I could work as a physician and put my entire salary towards my loans (no rent or anything) and thanks to taxes it would still take 5+ years to pay off. In reality, I will be living well under my means for at least a decade or more. THAT is pretty crushing.
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I think that number is a little low. Doximity's 2018 Compensation report just came out and they have the average for the lowest paid specialty (Ped Infection Disease) making $192K. Their second lowest paying specialty is Ped Hem/Onc and they're stating their average is 209K. I'd trust Doximity over a quick google search. Those are the lowest paying specialties too, you can make over 300K doing IM with a 3 year residency.

Edit: Durham, the lowest compensation city in the USA has an average physician compensation of 282K

Source: Doximity 2018 Physician Compensation Report
 
Is that $350k gross or post taxes? Either way, I think I'm inclined to agree with what most people have said here. But I would agree even more if this is $350k pre-tax. With taxes taken into account and money funneled away into retirement accounts, etc. wouldn't a take home pay be wayyyy less than that? Like $200k or even $175k or less depending on how much you put in retirement? I've never made 6 figures so someone else should correct me. So you would expect your parent to pay like half their take home pay for your education and living expenses?

I just re-read OP's original post and saw that s/he is not saying s/he deserves said parent to pay for school. Apologies OP! I was going with what other posters were saying.
 
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curbsideconsult said:
Is that $350k gross or post taxes? Either way, I think I'm inclined to agree with what most people have said here. But I would agree even more if this is $350k pre-tax. With taxes taken into account and money funneled away into retirement accounts, etc. wouldn't a take home pay be wayyyy less than that? Like $200k or even $175k or less depending on how much you put in retirement? I've never made 6 figures so someone else should correct me. So you would expect your parent to pay like half their take home pay for your education and living expenses?
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Salary estimate are always pre-tax. Also, med school can be around 400k (100k *4). But from what I've read, the high interest rate (usually 7%) leads to you owing 800K in this scenario. If you're making 200k a year as a pediatrician, that would take 4 years of salary of salary to pay off. But you can't spend your entire income on paying off debt, since you have housing and lifestyle costs, and maybe actually want to try to enjoy life a little bit. Maybe you have childcare costs as - statistically you probably do. Paying for their schooling, food, clothes adds up. So often physicians take over a decade to pay off their, contributing to high levels of stress.
 
DubbiDoctor said:
We are never allowed to judge people who differ in terms of values and worldview? In a sense that's the *only* thing we judge people on. If you're unnecessarily rude, that's because you don't value cordiality. If you rob from someone, that's because you don't value someone's property. If you harshly judge radical Islamic countries where women are oppressed, you disagree with their values, which in this case fundamentally shape their worldview.
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There's a difference between recognizing the fundamental rights of others to life, dignity, freedom, and safety from persecution, and saying that parents lack compassion and character because they opt out of being an ATM for adult children who voluntarily pursue a career path with a high cost of entry. There's a difference between embracing basic human rights and inflicting your own entitled views on others. And there's a difference between saying you think people should behave one way and casting aspersions on their character for not doing what you think they should do. Just because they do things differently than you, it doesn't mean they're defective.

I have no problem with you believing wealthy parents should pay for their children's education. I disagree with you, but reasonable adults can disagree. But when you start to viciously attack people's character for believing otherwise, you're out of line.
 
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willow84 said:
I did not have to provide my parent's income on FAFSA, since I am an independent adult in my 30s, but I did have to provide their income info to my schools for need-based consideration.
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Agreed. OP, I think this is what your schools were saying. Even if you don't get grants or scholarships, you will absolutely be able to pay for med school, even if it's 100% loan money.
 
MareNostrummm said:
Solution: get married
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Kill two birds with one stone, marry another first year in your class whose parents aren't supporting them. Then both claim need based aid.

Added Bonus: If you get caught in fraud, just throw them under the bus. If I've learned one thing from Arrested Development, they can't try a husband and wife for the same crime.
 
It really just sounds like this discussion is just bouncing from one extreme to another (parents help pay all or pay none). No I am not saying pay for your child's entire medical education that is ridiculous and should be thrusted onto no one except the one making the decision to pursue medicine. But the job of a parent does not stop when your child is 18 or whatever age you want to use when they are an adult.

They way many schools calculate need based scholarship is through: Full Cost of Attendence - Base loan (depends on whether the school is private or an in-state school) - Family Contribution = Need Based Scholarship. The base loan usually covers most of the cost of tuition everything else is basically living expenses. As a medical student you know the debt you are getting yourself into and you should try to minimize that as much as possible (work part-time at a job that still allows you to study on the job, apply to scholarships - there are tons of scholarships to apply to after getting into medical school). For those with parents who make a lot of money as in OP's case they could chip in a little bit no they don't have to match the entire family contribution (which again is only part of the cost of Medical school) but they can help with some chunk of it without it really hurting them financially and I would say only if they see their child actually being responsible and putting in effort to reduce the debt.

Either way the money your parents would be putting into savings or retirement instead of helping you pay for medical school now, I would imagine that after they pass it will fall down to you anyways - unless they spend it all which I do not think is the case most of the time.
 
Dr. Meliodas said:
It really just sounds like this discussion is just bouncing from one extreme to another (parents help pay all or pay none). No I am not saying pay for your child's entire medical education that is ridiculous and should be thrusted onto no one except the one making the decision to pursue medicine. But the job of a parent does not stop when your child is 18 or whatever age you want to use when they are an adult.

They way many schools calculate need based scholarship is through: Full Cost of Attendence - Base loan (depends on whether the school is private or an in-state school) - Family Contribution = Need Based Scholarship. The base loan usually covers most of the cost of tuition everything else is basically living expenses. As a medical student you know the debt you are getting yourself into and you should try to minimize that as much as possible (work part-time at a job that still allows you to study on the job, apply to scholarships - there are tons of scholarships to apply to after getting into medical school). For those with parents who make a lot of money as in OP's case they could chip in a little bit no they don't have to match the entire family contribution (which again is only part of the cost of Medical school) but they can help with some chunk of it without it really hurting them financially and I would say only if they see their child actually being responsible and putting in effort to reduce the debt.

Either way the money your parents would be putting into savings or retirement instead of helping you pay for medical school now, I would imagine that after they pass it will fall down to you anyways - unless they spend it all which I do not think is the case most of the time.
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Links?
 
Job55 said:
My parent makes ~350k per year, but they will not be supporting me whatsoever during medical school. Why am I still required to submit their financial info for need-based financial aid? Is this going to destroy my chances of receiving any need-based aid? I apologize if I am posting in the wrong space.
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Most financial aid in medical school is not need-based. Even when it is, it is generally reserved for people who are at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder to give them a boost that will hopefully keep several generations out of poverty, not those whose parents won't share their 350k income.

I had the double misfortune of being poor and getting no aid, so count your blessings that you at least got to grow up alright.
 
Mad Jack said:
I had the double misfortune of being poor and getting no aid, so count your blessings that you at least got to grow up alright.
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How bad was it managing the loans before you made an attending's salary? Read: in residency.
 
STLouisVuittonDon said:
Links?
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It is not something medical schools broadly advertise. This is based on what all the schools I've interviewed at have told me and from those I know who have interviewed elsewhere. Some schools might share the information in their student handbooks which you can find online.
 
DubbiDoctor said:
Why is it their responsibility to take on crushing debt,
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Because they are electively taking it on and that’s part of what they are signing up for? No one is forced to go to medical school.

DubbiDoctor said:
They can do what they want, but let's not pretend that parents have a moral obligation to not pay for their children's professional education, thereby making their lives more difficult. If you're wealthy enough to easily pay off your children's educational debt, but refuse to, I think that testifies poorly to your character and concern and compassion for your children.
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Lol parents have no moral obligation whatsoever to pay for their adult children’s debt, regardless of how much they make. They are adults, they are choosing to pursue a career with a high cost of entry, and that is 100% their choice. Don’t like the debt? Go do something else.

Also this “crushing debt” is not the issue you are grandizing it to be. I have yet to meet a new pediatrician or family med doc who isn’t living a very comfortable life. No doc is going poor and living on the streets.

DubbiDoctor said:
I want to live in a world where family ties matter.
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This is completely unrelated to whether a rich parent feeds their child with a golden spoon or not.
 
DubbiDoctor said:
Are you wealthy? Why is it their responsibility to take on crushing debt, forcing them to pay back twice what they take out and thereby potentially affecting their choice of residency specialization, if their parents are wealthy enough to pay for their education without sacrificing their quality of life?
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Wow, I'd never feel so entitled that I'd expect my parents to shell out for med school no matter how wealthy they were. At the end of the day, it's my decision to go.
 
9s_2b said:
So independent applicants do not need to provide any financial information about their parents?
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As it was discussed, even if your parents are still supporting you, it's never required to provide their tax information on your FAFSA application. The only purpose it serves is to qualify you for need based aid.

If you know you aren't getting need based aid, you won't need to put your parents on your fafsa.
 
9s_2b said:
If you are financially independent, married and/or over 25, would you still need to provide this information on the fafsa form?
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No. I've never put it on the FAFSA form and have never been asked. Received full Pell Grants through undergrad.

caveat: I'm married
 
Osminog said:
See page: Will I need my parents’ information?
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All grad students are independents for the FAFSA forms. But even when you list yourself as an independent, which you must, you have the option of disclosing parental income. If you don't disclose it, medical schools, depending on their policy, will not consider you for need-based aid.
 
tbonez71 said:
I'm not going to argue whether parents should pay or not.... BUT

Average physician salary (according to my 2 second google) is $189,000. My school will require I take out $350k in loans to pay off, which are all unsubsidized now thanks to our wonderful government and come with a 4.5% FEE. With a likely 5 year residency after school, I will be likely looking at around 600k or more total after the interest. So I could work as a physician and put my entire salary towards my loans (no rent or anything) and thanks to taxes it would still take 5+ years to pay off. In reality, I will be living well under my means for at least a decade after finishing my training. THAT is pretty crushing.
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Jeeze, Nothing like the smell of entitlement in the morning.

Can you kindly show us the gun that was put to your head to make you go to medical school?
 
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