People have given up on the quarantine.

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Medicineman23 said:
I agree with your stance. I was just replying to the poster who said something to the tune of "well, our freedom already was given up after the heightened terrorism stance so what's to stop us from implementing this type of technology"
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My point with that is that this virus has already killed more people than any terrorist or illegal immigrant ever did. If you're gonna oppose things like contact tracing and tracking for preventing viruses, you should also be opposed to things like the TSA, NSA, Patriot Act. The thing is, the anti-terrorism laws only target Muslims/Middle-Eastern people so people don't care. When they get affected, they start whining.
 
wagrxm2000 said:
No one is making you work.

Why does your life matter more then their freedom?

Almost every American is now going back out into the public whether it's to the hardware store or grocery store. Every single parking lot is full this weekend at Kroger, Lowe's, Walmart etc.

I'm sorry you only care about your safety and not their freedom
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Yea - this whole argument of “your killing everyone and indirectly putting me at risk by going to get your haircut therefore your a selfish monster” is only skin deep and conveniently ignores the reality of the world we live in.
 
Old Timer said:
As a pharmacist I accept that risk but I expect my customers to do their part to limit my exposure.
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Ain’t gonna happen......


The reason why it simply won’t happen is very similar to the reason why pure communism will never work. Humans(as a species) are, first and foremost, concerned with themselves and their own needs.

It just is what it is.... I will give another example... you go to a public restroom and you can almost certainly expect there to be piss all over the seat right? It’s because no one gives a **** and there is no amount of complaining about it that will change that fact.

We are going to have to deal with our current circumstance with the expectation that there is no perfect solution.
 
Sparda29 said:
My point with that is that this virus has already killed more people than any terrorist or illegal immigrant ever did. If you're gonna oppose things like contact tracing and tracking for preventing viruses, you should also be opposed to things like the TSA, NSA, Patriot Act. The thing is, the anti-terrorism laws only target Muslims/Middle-Eastern people so people don't care. When they get affected, they start whining.
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If you can channel the general populace's anger and fear toward a more tangible scapegoat then they're more likely to sacrifice for the common good rather than whine.

After 9/11 it was directed toward Muslims and Middle Easterns. It's hard to direct public anger toward a virus that cannot be seen without a microscope; however the current administration is trying its best to direct blame toward China and Asians.
 
PharmtoCS said:
If you can channel the general populace's anger and fear toward a more tangible scapegoat then they're more likely to sacrifice for the common good rather than whine.

After 9/11 it was directed toward Muslims and Middle Easterns. It's hard to direct public anger toward a virus that cannot be seen without a microscope; however the current administration is trying its best to direct blame toward China and Asians.
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Certainly not Asians as a people.... I think there may be a good point to be made that China (Specifically the communist party of China) has not been a very good partner in this whole thing and, on some levels may have been acting somewhat suspicious. I do not think there is anything wrong with shedding light on this.
 
Old Timer said:
Dude, if this was the attitide during WWII you would be saying Seig Heil. If you can't hang for 2-3 months to save our socieety from a pandemic, we are just a bunch of whiny, narcissistic, ******* who have no right to inherit what our funders gave us. There is a difference between Freedom and FREE-DUMB.

You can go out, you just can't go to a retail establishment and shop, dine out, or get your hair cut, You can ride a bike, take a walk, jog ro whatever you want. Unless your state says stay in your house only, not that way in PA, Again Give me a hair cut or give me death rings hollow...
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The "re-open now" crowd isn't upset because they want a haircut. Most people are concerned about the systemic damage being done to a complex global economy. Things are breaking that cannot be unbroken.

PharmtoCS said:
If you can channel the general populace's anger and fear toward a more tangible scapegoat then they're more likely to sacrifice for the common good rather than whine.

After 9/11 it was directed toward Muslims and Middle Easterns. It's hard to direct public anger toward a virus that cannot be seen without a microscope; however the current administration is trying its best to direct blame toward China and Asians.
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Are you suggesting that the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic originated outside of China? We know they deliberately delayed reporting of human to human transmission to the WHO.

Blaming Asian people and blaming the Communist party of China are two completely different things. Disturbing how you lumped them together...
 
JustFillIt said:
Ain’t gonna happen......


The reason why it simply won’t happen is very similar to the reason why pure communism will never work. Humans(as a species) are, first and foremost, concerned with themselves and their own needs.

It just is what it is.... I will give another example... you go to a public restroom and you can almost certainly expect there to be piss all over the seat right? It’s because no one gives a **** and there is no amount of complaining about it that will change that fact.

We are going to have to deal with our current circumstance with the expectation that there is no perfect solution.
Click to expand...

You won't die from piss on a toilet seat
 
lane one said:
The "re-open now" crowd isn't upset because they want a haircut. Most people are concerned about the systemic damage being done to a complex global economy. Things are breaking that cannot be unbroken.
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They would have broken anyway.
 
JustFillIt said:
Certainly not Asians as a people.... I think there may be a good point to be made that China (Specifically the communist party of China) has not been a very good partner in this whole thing and, on some levels may have been acting somewhat suspicious. I do not think there is anything wrong with shedding light on this.
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lane one said:
Are you suggesting that the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic originated outside of China? We know they deliberately delayed reporting of human to human transmission to the WHO.

Blaming Asian people and blaming the Communist party of China are two completely different things. Disturbing how you lumped them together...
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I agree with your points, though the blame of Asians was rather indirect. Trump used to call COVID the "Chinese virus" which may have increased scapegoating of Asians for the outbreak.
 
lane one said:
The "re-open now" crowd isn't upset because they want a haircut. Most people are concerned about the systemic damage being done to a complex global economy. Things are breaking that cannot be unbroken.



Are you suggesting that the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic originated outside of China? We know they deliberately delayed reporting of human to human transmission to the WHO.

Blaming Asian people and blaming the Communist party of China are two completely different things. Disturbing how you lumped them together...
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There are a lot of ignorant people in this world. Just look at the number of hate crimes.
 
Old Timer said:
You won't die from piss on a toilet seat
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It is an illustration of the point that - “no one cares” and you can’t expect the general population to, “do their part”.

Here is another example... I went to the grocery store today. I could not find a parking spot - the reason being was that there were shopping cars littered all over the parking lot. It is just too much to expect anyone to push the cart back to the return center.

Anyways - the list can go on and on.. My point is that you just can’t count on the general public taking your safety seriously. Unfortunately they just don’t care
 
BMBiology said:
There are a lot of ignorant people in this world. Just look at the number of hate crimes.
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"I see an Asian family including a 6- and 2- year old. Are they Chinese? Whatever, it doesn't matter. How dare they bring the coronavirus here! I'm going to whip out my knife and stab them to death."
 
PharmtoCS said:
If you can channel the general populace's anger and fear toward a more tangible scapegoat then they're more likely to sacrifice for the common good rather than whine.

After 9/11 it was directed toward Muslims and Middle Easterns. It's hard to direct public anger toward a virus that cannot be seen without a microscope; however the current administration is trying its best to direct blame toward China and Asians.
Click to expand...

Except the TSA, NSA, spying, war on terror isn't for the common good. If they wanna protest the lockdown, then the better start protesting against all these nonsensical security measures that we go through at the airport, protest against government spying on citizens, protest against the NSA, CIA existing.
 
We will be here debating the same crap a year from now while the rest of the world would have overcome COVID
 
JustFillIt said:
It is an illustration of the point that - “no one cares” and you can’t expect the general population to, “do their part”.

Here is another example... I went to the grocery store today. I could not find a parking spot - the reason being was that there were shopping cars littered all over the parking lot. It is just too much to expect anyone to push the cart back to the return center.

Anyways - the list can go on and on.. My point is that you just can’t count on the general public taking your safety seriously. Unfortunately they just don’t care
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omg this infuriates me so the f much. people who don't return carts should seriously be jailed.
 
ValeRx said:
I do find the *****s yelling, "OMG YOU WANT A HAIRCUT AND YOU'RE GONNA KILL US ALLLLLLL" to be quite humorous.
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I do find it interesting that there is a sudden increase in covid19 cases after 72 hours of opening up the economy. I thought there was a 14 day incubation period? lol How did they find out that there was a symptom, go to the doctors office, get tested, have the results back and have that result reported all within 72 hours? lol
 
allantois said:
We will be here debating the same crap a year from now while the rest of the world would have overcome COVID
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I've screen captured some of the posts so that I can come back later and show how snowflaky some people are lol yes, i am pathetic lol
 
Old Timer said:
They would have broken anyway.
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Like what? My parents' employees whose livelihood depend on them working? Or my parents' savings account which they had to use to help their employees? Or my friend's restaurant that had to close and now he's sitting on debt with no income? or his employees that he had to let go? Which part of their lives were gonna be broken anyway had this economy not been crashed on purpose?
 
Wisconsin is in a weird place these days. Some stuff is wide open, some business are completely closed, and some keep operating somewhere in between. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.
 
mustang sally said:
Wisconsin is in a weird place these days. Some stuff is wide open, some business are completely closed, and some keep operating somewhere in between. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.
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Depends on the county and city as well.
I live in suburban Milwaukee county and so, everything can legally open on Friday. The city of Milwaukee is still mostly closed. I can go north a few miles and into Ozaukee county and everything is already open there, I believe.
 
grumpyRph said:
please tell me it's pre-mixed IM...please oh please oh please....
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I want all you yahoos to get haircuts. It's about the best place in the world to spread this virus. You have all of the three major things needed to spread this disease:
  1. Close contact with a human being. BTW, PPE is not a substitute for being six feet apart.
  2. Prolonged human contact
  3. Talking. Talking is actually about the worse thing you can do, close up.
You just need one infectious barber and we are off to the races......
 
Old Timer said:
I want all you yahoos to get haircuts. It's about the best place in the world to spread this virus. You have all of the three major things needed to spread this disease:
  1. Close contact with a human being. BTW, PPE is not a substitute for being six feet apart.
  2. Prolonged human contact
  3. Talking. Talking is actually about the worse thing you can do, close up.
You just need one infectious barber and we are off to the races......
Click to expand...

Your fearmongering is becoming tiresome.
 
Old Timer said:
I want all you yahoos to get haircuts. It's about the best place in the world to spread this virus. You have all of the three major things needed to spread this disease:
  1. Close contact with a human being. BTW, PPE is not a substitute for being six feet apart.
  2. Prolonged human contact
  3. Talking. Talking is actually about the worse thing you can do, close up.
You just need one infectious barber and we are off to the races......
Click to expand...

I have a haircut scheduled for tomorrow.
 
owlegrad said:
I don't get the fear mongering comment. Is it fear mongering to recommend wearing a seatbelt? Or is it just being a responsible adult?
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It’s a good point. But look - we are in too deep now. We have passed the point of no return on this thing.

We either learn to live with it the best that we can or accept very serious consequences on a large scale.

I will be getting my haircut and I will do everything I can to prevent anyone around me from getting hurt. If they want me to wear a mask I will do it.

I will not accept the impossible reality of destroying the livelihood of millions and millions of people in order to be “perfectly safe”. Shutting all this stuff down will simply not stop the inevitability of this thing and ultimately would lead to a massive collapse the likes of which none of us are prepared for.

Our economy was very cleverly created to cause an interdependence on each other. All of our comfort and prosperity is interlocked. The truth is we can not stop what’s coming. And in the long run, it may not turn out to be as bad as we thought it would be at first.

With all that being said - it is a gamble at this point and I pretend to know nothing other than the fact that shutting it down is not a good answer at all.
 
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VictorOfHungerGames said:
I do find it interesting that there is a sudden increase in covid19 cases after 72 hours of opening up the economy. I thought there was a 14 day incubation period? lol How did they find out that there was a symptom, go to the doctors office, get tested, have the results back and have that result reported all within 72 hours? lol
Click to expand...

Well, here in my area, people decided on their own they were through with the quarantine about 10 days before our governor actually loosened the restrictions, and now that he has, probably about 75% of people are ignoring the rules still in place and doing whatever they want. So I assume the same has happened in anyplace where their case numbers have suddenly shot up.

Also, their have been reports of the incubation period being anywhere from 3 - 24 days. 14 days is the general limit that almost everyone will have developed symptoms at that point, but many people will develop symptoms far earlier.
 
Old Timer said:
I want all you yahoos to get haircuts. It's about the best place in the world to spread this virus. You have all of the three major things needed to spread this disease:
  1. Close contact with a human being. BTW, PPE is not a substitute for being six feet apart.
  2. Prolonged human contact
  3. Talking. Talking is actually about the worse thing you can do, close up.
You just need one infectious barber and we are off to the races......
Click to expand...
Then... no one should ever come out their house. Ever. Or ever have contact with any other human or animal lol. As I said before and will keep on saying, you should just stay home if youre so scared.
 
ValeRx said:
Your fearmongering is becoming tiresome.
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It's not fear mongering at all it 's fact based on data. Just because your don't read anything out what is going on is not my problem, The way I said the virus is spread is undisputed medical facts, period. Close prolonged human contact is how the virus is spread
You just a Church outbreak in Arkansas where the pastor infected interacted with 92 people, 36 got the virus and spread it to others and 3 more died. Modeling shows if we had started locking down two weeks earlier the death toll would greatly reduced.
 
Old Timer said:
It's not fear mongering at all it 's fact based on data. Just because your don't read anything out what is going on is not my problem, The way I said the virus is spread is undisputed medical facts, period. Close prolonged human contact is how the virus is spread
You just a Church outbreak in Arkansas where the pastor infected interacted with 92 people, 36 got the virus and spread it to others and 3 more died. Modeling shows if we had started locking down two weeks earlier the death toll would greatly reduced.
Click to expand...
Barring an effective vaccine, this thing isn't going away anytime soon. Even the absolute best countries at dealing with this (S. Korea and Germany) keep having outbreaks as soon as they loosen things up even slightly.

Trouble is, we can't stay locked down forever. Even ignoring economic issues, you start having food supply issues.

There's also this:
 
owlegrad said:
I don't get the fear mongering comment. Is it fear mongering to recommend wearing a seatbelt? Or is it just being a responsible adult?
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This may be a bad example. Not wearing seat belt does not kill other people, just you. This should be compared to drunk driving. If you drink and drive, you not only kill yourself but may kill other people. That being said, are you not gonna go outside because you're afraid of drunk drivers? Maybe. That's totally up to you. You shouldn't tell people not to go outside, you should tell people to not drink and drive.
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
This may be a bad example. Not wearing seat belt does not kill other people, just you. This should be compared to drunk driving. If you drink and drive, you not only kill yourself but may kill other people. That being said, are you not gonna go outside because you're afraid of drunk drivers? Maybe. That's totally up to you. You shouldn't tell people not to go outside, you should tell people to not drink and drive.
Click to expand...

I agree, don't drink and drive. Also don't spread a disease. How do you do that when you don't even know if you are infected? One way is to limit your exposure to other people.

It seems to me that broadly speaking there are two schools of thought about this. One school seems to think that anyone who goes out is risking themselves and they have the right to make that choice for themselves. I can respect that. The other school of thought is that when you go unnecessarily out you are risking others and you don't have the right to risk other people's health/lives. I think I lean in that direction.

I don't have the answer for the question "when should we reopen". Obviously we have to reopen at some point. I guess in my ideal world we would reopen when the number of cases was decreasing rather than increasing.
 
owlegrad said:
I agree, don't drink and drive. Also don't spread a disease. How do you do that when you don't even know if you are infected? One way is to limit your exposure to other people.

It seems to me that broadly speaking there are two schools of thought about this. One school seems to think that anyone who goes out is risking themselves and they have the right to make that choice for themselves. I can respect that. The other school of thought is that when you go unnecessarily out you are risking others and you don't have the right to risk other people's health/lives. I think I lean in that direction.

I don't have the answer for the question "when should we reopen". Obviously we have to reopen at some point. I guess in my ideal world we would reopen when the number of cases was decreasing rather than increasing.
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So I just went and got my hair cut. So weird...

The rule was to wear a mask and to “keep talking to a minimum” as to avoid transmission of COVID.

I threw on my mask and kept silent the whole time. The shop was quite busy. Do I think I contracted covid? Nope - not at all.. But who knows right?

I guess that is the best part of the opposite side of this argument is the fact that they get to claim the possibility of invisible “happenings” and apply blame based on speculation that certainly “could happen”..

But damn I look good.. like a boss...
 
owlegrad said:
I agree, don't drink and drive. Also don't spread a disease. How do you do that when you don't even know if you are infected? One way is to limit your exposure to other people.

It seems to me that broadly speaking there are two schools of thought about this. One school seems to think that anyone who goes out is risking themselves and they have the right to make that choice for themselves. I can respect that. The other school of thought is that when you go unnecessarily out you are risking others and you don't have the right to risk other people's health/lives. I think I lean in that direction.

I don't have the answer for the question "when should we reopen". Obviously we have to reopen at some point. I guess in my ideal world we would reopen when the number of cases was decreasing rather than increasing.
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And I agree this could be a tricky situation but that goes for all infectious disease, doesn't it? Unless this has ebola type of symptoms and death rates, we may be blowing this way out of proportion. Why don't we enforce the same rules for the flu? and shut down the economy when the flu season comes? Same question can be asked about the flu. Are we not risking others' lives if we don't do the same during the flu season?
 
JustFillIt said:
So I just went and got my hair cut. So weird...

The rule was to wear a mask and to “keep talking to a minimum” as to avoid transmission of COVID.

I threw on my mask and kept silent the whole time. The shop was quite busy. Do I think I contracted covid? Nope - not at all.. But who knows right?

I guess that is the best part of the opposite side of this argument is the fact that they get to claim the possibility of invisible “happenings” and apply blame based on speculation that certainly “could happen”..

But damn I look good.. like a boss...
Click to expand...
Pics or didn't happen lol
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
Pics or didn't happen lol
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1590079713471.gif
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
And I agree this could be a tricky situation but that goes for all infectious disease, doesn't it? Unless this has ebola type of symptoms and death rates, we may be blowing this way out of proportion. Why don't we enforce the same rules for the flu? and shut down the economy when the flu season comes? Same question can be asked about the flu. Are we not risking others' lives if we don't do the same during the flu season?
Click to expand...

Whataboutism at its finest. Also COVID has killed more people in a shorter timeframe than any flu season I have been alive for.
 
owlegrad said:
Whataboutism at its finest. Also COVID has killed more people in a shorter timeframe than any flu season I have been alive for.
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That number is questionable as I have posted previously on false reporting but regardless of that, I am not arguing about comparing in exact numbers. Yes, I get that it is a respiratory disease and it spreads, just like the flu. Just because covid19 killed more people, does that mean the flu deaths are not important? Shouldn't we apply the same methodology? About 60,000 died of the flu in 2019 so yes, the raw covid19 data shows that it did kill more than the flu but does that make the flu less important in prevention? Had we implemented this fear mongering process and force people to stay inside, may be we could've saved a few of the flu victims?

But then again, as I pointed out before, this quarantine has weird affect on covid19 vs flu. covid19 numbers kept on increasing even during the quarantine yet the flu number almost went down to zero. It's just weird. Shouldn't both numbers look the same? since you know they're both respiratory infection?
 
What is considered unnecessary?

And if what I'm doing is unnecessary, isn't everyone else that I'm around also doing unnecessary tasks?
 
The U.S. health care non-system could have managed your typical flu season (not Spanish flu 2019 redux) w/o COVID 2019. There was concern that it could not handle another layer of COVID 2019 burden. That is the idea so why does it have to be rehashed a billion times.

I'm all for letting it rip just to foment chaos and accelerate further societal decline though
 
owlegrad said:
Whataboutism at its finest. Also COVID has killed more people in a shorter timeframe than any flu season I have been alive for.
Click to expand...
I wonder what the flu death rate would be sans vaccine?

I should go on record and I say I don't oppose what we're done so far in response (other than wishing we'd had testing/PPE up to speed earlier), so this really is just musing not saying "OMG COVID is just the flu we're overreacting!"
 
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