People have given up on the quarantine.

[owlegrad]

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This is so true... And on a different not is why it is so hard counseling a patient in retail pharmacy. Dr google has given them whatever point of view they want

Truer words were never spoken.

 

[DagS132]

...You may be living in some bubble but the overwhelming consensus among people outside of Western countries regarding vaccines is vastly different from what we perceive here in the West.

Is that why the entire world is searching for a vaccine for covid 19?

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

Is that why the entire world is searching for a vaccine for covid 19?

You, your cohorts, and those with vested interests in the development in a vaccine are "searching" for one. Many people are suspicious and are afraid of getting the vaccine, especially those populations in developing countries.

 

[DagS132]

You, your cohorts, and those with vested interests in the development in a vaccine are "searching" for one. Many people are suspicious and are afraid of getting the vaccine, especially those populations in developing countries.

Lmao, since when does anyone do something for free? I didn't know you had to work for free for this to be a valid vaccine.

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

Lmao, since when does anyone do something for free? I didn't know you had to work for free for this to be a valid vaccine.

That's not what i meant.

 

[DagS132]

That's not what i meant.

lol actually forget what I last posted. I don't want to know. I know where this is going. Its going to be another long, "just think about it" paragraph with no supporting evidence.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

Im not sure giving someone a title such as "antivaxxers" is fair. It's like calling someone a flatearther just because he's asking questions such as at what point does the water curve?

I don't think it's wrong to question things even if they are validated by the "government" or "science journals". That's how true science typically works right? by questioning the unquestionable. I don't believe there has ever been a study done to specifically look at vaccines harming kids. Not that I advocate that vaccines cause harm but we can't leave out the fact that there is a possibility and we should look into them.

Again, just because someone questioned what you thought were cold hard facts does not make that person any less of a person than you. If you call that person a degrading name, that does make you a douche though.

You would do well to read this: The Psychology of Vaccine Denial

Call a spade a spade; if it hurts your feelings I'll call them by the real name. Prodiseasers. These people deny science and spread illness that literally kills people. You are more worried about their feelings than people's lives? It's funny that you mention flatearthers since these are the same people that believe antivax nonsense.... these people are the ones refusing to wear masks in public during a pandemic. It's a triple whammy of idiocy and Dunning Kruger all wrapped up in one.

First of all, I'm not against the science of vaccines. I am against the use of vaccines on women and children from developing countries that have maimed them and rendered them sterile. Obviously, since this is done under the guise of public health, there are no peer reviewed journals.

Not all evidence needs to come from peer-reviewed journals to make it truth. There are many facts out there that cannot be verified through your litmus test for verifiable evidence. That's why I asked you to get a plane ticket to these countries and go to some random village and ask the locals what they think of your messianic vaccines. Ask the women who can't have children or ask the children themselves that have been injured by these injections. They will not STFU, their voice has been heard when no one else was willing to listen but they still live with the consequences of what has happened to them.

Again, there is literally zero evidence of anything you're stating. If that were the case, we would have reputable peer-reviewed journals from around the world reflecting it, but alas, there are none. Every meta-analysis on vaccine safety across the globe proves you 100% wrong, and vaccines are far more safe and effective than any risk. It is estimated that 1 in a million has a true vaccine reaction/injury.

We are talking about science here. Leave your anecdotes from the prodisease echochambers out... it has zero place in the hierarchy of evidence.

The hierarchy of evidence: Is the study’s design robust?

People are extraordinarily prone to confirmation biases. We have a strong tendency to latch onto anything that supports our position and blindly ignore anything that doesn’t. This is especial…

thelogicofscience.com

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

You would do well to read this: The Psychology of Vaccine Denial

Call a spade a spade; if it hurts your feelings I'll call them by the real name. Prodiseasers. These people deny science and spread illness that literally kills people. You are more worried about their feelings than people's lives? It's funny that you mention flatearthers since these are the same people that believe antivax nonsense.... these people are the ones refusing to wear masks in public during a pandemic. It's a triple whammy of idiocy and Dunning Kruger all wrapped up in one.



Again, there is literally zero evidence of anything you're stating. If that were the case, we would have reputable peer-reviewed journals from around the world reflecting it, but alas, there are none. Every meta-analysis on vaccine safety across the globe proves you 100% wrong, and vaccines are far more safe and effective than any risk. It is estimated that 1 in a million has a true vaccine reaction/injury.

We are talking about science here. Leave your anecdotes from the prodisease echochambers out... it has zero place in the hierarchy of evidence.

The hierarchy of evidence: Is the study’s design robust?

People are extraordinarily prone to confirmation biases. We have a strong tendency to latch onto anything that supports our position and blindly ignore anything that doesn’t. This is especial…

thelogicofscience.com

You may or may not be understanding what I have said. The vaccines were intentionally given to those people to cause harm. I am not saying all vaccines cause harm. There were will never be double blind placebo whatever trials to determine who was maimed or not. Why would the perpetrators publish data that shows such atrocities, you want them to compare how well they damaged patients LOL.! Was such evidence shown for the Tuskegee syphilis experiments? Of course not! You keep lamenting for peer reviewed evidence. Even peer reviewed evidence can be faulty and very misleading. That is why the world is in its dire situation.

In short time you will see with your very own eyes the evidence that you desperately seek. Because you are willfully rejecting what can be clearly seen; may you share the fate of those of Capernaum that asked for evidence. May you share the fate of Azazel and his hosts. May the tears of the victims follow you into the darkness of Gehenna.

Remember this: Those who lead into captivity will be lead into captivity, those who kill by the sword will be killed by the sword.

 

[TheBlaah]

That LazyPharmacist2.0 sounds like Carol is Alpha. At least with the long meandering speeches about nothing. I seem to remember him being an anti-vaxxer/Trump-toting conspiracy theorist. Makes total sense as their reasoning were along the same lines of the VictorofGames guy.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

That LazyPharmacist2.0 sounds like Carol is Alpha. At least with the long meandering speeches about nothing. I seem to remember him being an anti-vaxxer/Trump-toting conspiracy theorist. Makes total sense as their reasoning were along the same lines of the VictorofGames guy.

Just wanted to make this post to let you know that I honestly couldnt care less but the fact that majority of people who can think for themselves are getting tired of this nonsense, as in people realize this virus is not what they were told, may be pissing you and other snowflakes off lol

As I have always said from the beginning, it was media who drove this chaos backed by the government who i am sure had their own agenda in killing its own economy. Now that states are opening up, Wisconsin’s supreme court just gave a big fat middle finger to the snowflake governor and ruled stay at home order unconstitutional and unenforceable, snowflakes such as yourselves are scared that rest of us dumb people are gonna infect you. I get it. Just stay home. No one is telling you to come outside.

Make sure you do not come outside until there is zero covid19 infection. Which, funny enough, will never happen since me and other “anti-“ whatever you wanna call us, will be living our lives potentially infecting others again. How dumb would you look if you have to come down to our level and start going outside?

At the end of the day, youre just a pharmacist like the rest of us. Stop talking like youre so much better. Your opinion on whether i am for or against vaccine, or whether i believe in heliocentric or geocentric earth or the fact that the bible is a flat earth book means less than my cat’s poop. Not a single thing you write on here will actually matter in life. If you dont have anything tangible or substantial to say about the actual argument or the topic at hand, just stfu.

 

[JustFillIt]

Victor - I respected you until I found out you have cats.... wth....

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Victor - I respected you until I found out you have cats.... wth....

You say wha... my cats are awesome. Theyre low maintenance, not clingy, chill af and super cute. Lol. Say man, lions are cats lol

 

[Old Timer]

First of all, I'm not against the science of vaccines. I am against the use of vaccines on women and children from developing countries that have maimed them and rendered them sterile. Obviously, since this is done under the guise of public health, there are no peer reviewed journals.

Not all evidence needs to come from peer-reviewed journals to make it truth. There are many facts out there that cannot be verified through your litmus test for verifiable evidence. That's why I asked you to get a plane ticket to these countries and go to some random village and ask the locals what they think of your messianic vaccines. Ask the women who can't have children or ask the children themselves that have been injured by these injections. They will not STFU, their voice has been heard when no one else was willing to listen but they still live with the consequences of what has happened to them.

Well then give us the non peer reviewed evidence, or did the chickens eat it?

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

Well then give us the non peer reviewed evidence, or did the chickens eat it?

Man you must be really invested in the status quo. You're what Marx described as petty bourgeoisie lol.

 

[TheBlaah]

That's why I asked you to get a plane ticket to these countries and go to some random village and ask the locals what they think of your messianic vaccines. Ask the women who can't have children or ask the children themselves that have been injured by these injections. They will not STFU, their voice has been heard when no one else was willing to listen but they still live with the consequences of what has happened to them.

You should visit these villages that you're so well acquainted with a cellphone, record your conversations, and come back with the evidence.

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

You should visit these villages that you're so well acquainted with a cellphone, record your conversations, and come back with the evidence.

Good idea, I'll pay them to say what I want. Now that's a great conspiracy oh my

 

[DagS132]

Good idea, I'll pay them to say what I want. Now that's a great conspiracy oh my

"I'm not wrong. Its society that is wrong."

 

[BidingMyTime]

Oh, I can't even get through this whole thread.

All that the lockdown accomplished was delay herd immunity. Never in the history of humankind was the healthy quarantined. The lethality of this virus was way overblown.
What should have happened was the elderly and immunocompromised should have been isolated, the rest of society continue as usual. These draconian measures forced up on us fly against basic principles of epidemiology .

Wrong. Quarantine's of health people have often been done throughout history. Most recently in the US during the Spanish flu, many cities had lock-downs, closed all businesses, schools, and churches (another false claim I've seen people make, that never in the history of the US have churches been forced to close.) Bonus fact, "qurantine" comes from the Italian word for 40 days, because they required qurantining of anyone entering the country for 40 days.

This lockdown was a concerted effort to shutter small business, reduce the number of colleges
I'm not making this up, expert epidemiologists have concluded that because this virus has most likely infected 30% of the population already we could have been on our way to reaching herd immunity if at least 80% were infected.

Wrong again. Epidemiologists really have no idea how many people have been infected. There is no way to tell without reliable antibody testing, and we do not have reliable antibody testing. It is well know the antibody testing available gives many false positives, which is why none of them are FDA approved.

For those interested in a different perspective other than the nonsense spewed by media and data that has been misrepresented. The national and global response to this "deadly virus" goes against microbiology 101 and basic principles of epidemiology. These Youtube videos present expert opinion, not a software engineer whose only solution to this is social distancing and a vaccine.
Journeyman Pictures

I completely agree, let's leave Bill Gates and MSM out of this. And we are still left with plenty of experts who agree that COVID is a very serious and deadly disease.

And there is no herd immunity for the other coronoviruses because no one is getting infected by them. They somehow disappeared like the first SARS.
The point is that this virus is akin to the seasonal flu virus and should either disappear like the others or the population will obtain herd immunity. Respiratory epidemics have only a limited course that they can take.

Colds and flu are year round, they just peak during winter months. There is no "herd immunity" to colds and flus...not in the way we have herd immunity to measles and mumps. If COVID is far more deadlier than colds or flu (and if it has a 1% death rate, then it is far more deadlier than the flu), then it is going to be a very real problem, even in the off-peak months.

If more people get infected, doesn’t that mean the virus has more opportunities to mutate into something that is more deadly?

Yes, but it would be short lived mutation.

Huge agreement here.. I have come to the realization that I can not believe anything that my television, media, or politicians tell me.. I don’t trust any of it.
With that being said, when this whole thing rolled out back in March - I decided to watch the rest of the worlds response (UK, Europe, Africa, India, etc) and it was all uniformly “shut it all down cause this thing is horrible!”
In all honesty, it really did not turned out to be the way it was portrayed at the start. Something just seems off here to me... I am still being very careful as I have 4 children to protect.. But every day, more and more, my question is turning into - “wtf is going on here?”
That’s just what my gut says.

If you had been following this in China, where it's been major news since mid-January, it would be clear this is a devastating disease. US media was late to the game when they started covering it in March. The portrayal was based on the massive and fast deaths COVID caused in China (and everyone pretty much agrees the official numbers were understated.) China locked down entire cities in January--millions of people, and throughout February, and still has part of the country under lock-down....this is why other countries followed this response, because China the first country to deal with it, and China only lock-downed after letting the virus spread out of control. Other countries hoped by locking down early, before the virus spread out of control, they could avoid the death and disability that China dealt with. Seriously, go to You Tube and google coronavirus & China videos that would put out in January and February, and you will have a better understanding why the rest of the world locked down once they realized the virus (which didn't even have a name yet) had spread from China.

All I know is one week everyone was like no you don't need to wear a mask (it's only for those already sick) to literally the next day everyone wear a mask if you go outside and some shops now have it as mandatory.

The only reason they said not to wear a mask, was because of the shortage of masks. It was then, and is now, safer for everyone, if everyone wears a mask.

This reminds me of when developing countries are ‘warned’ about GMOs. Those misinformation campaigns literally kill people. It makes me sad.
I am not going to engage in a “no true Scotsman” argument but every person outside the US that I have ever engaged with regarding medicine and vaccines were pro-medicine and pro-vaccine. I have not personally interviewed all 8 billion on Earth people though and I suspect you can find examples of any type of belief you want to if you look hard enough.

This. Vaccines and GMO food SAVE lives. People who believe otherwise are just privileged to have never been exposed to a 3rd world country. Sure, it would be nice if there was no disease, and no need for vaccines, but that isn't the world we live in, and even though vaccines do have risks, those risks are far outweighed by the risks of the disease. Likewise, it would be nice if we didn't need GMO food, but then that would mean millions of people starving, and those starving people are very grateful for GMO food (which is pretty low-risk, increased risk of allergies I guess is the biggest thing.)

 

[owlegrad]

The only reason they said not to wear a mask, was because of the shortage of masks. It was then, and is now, safer for everyone, if everyone wears a mask.

This is one area where I feel like more transparency was needed. If the problem with masks was lack of availability that should have been made more clear. Instead it went from being they aren’t needed or helpful for the general public to yeah actually they are helpful. At no point did the CDC say “yeah they are helpful for the general public, we just don’t have enough yet”.

Or if they did I didn’t see it.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

At the end of the day, youre just a pharmacist like the rest of us. Stop talking like youre so much better.

That is exactly my point here. You're a pharmacist, quite frankly at near the middle/bottom of the totem pole as far as knowledge and standing in the scientific community. You have the audacity to go against the scientific fact of vaccine success and safety that has been proven and observed around the world by hundreds of thousands of PhD/MDs for the last 5-10+ centuries? It's baffling.

You may or may not be understanding what I have said. The vaccines were intentionally given to those people to cause harm.

Again, you have zero evidence besides your youtube shows from people with zero credibility who try to pawn supplements off to people to make money. Great sources!

In a nutshell, you believe the entire scientific community across the globe is lying about the safety/success of vaccines. Do you hear how idiotic that sounds? When ~20 people in a room cannot keep a secret; you think that hundreds of thousands of independent doctoral researchers are doing this? The stuff that goes on in the head of the antivaxxer/flatearther/illuminati believing/etc.... good lord.

"sheeple" "wake up!" "do your research!"

 

[deleted480308]

This is one area where I feel like more transparency was needed. If the problem with masks was lack of availability that should have been made more clear. Instead it went from being they aren’t needed or helpful for the general public to yeah actually they are helpful. At no point did the CDC say “yeah they are helpful for the general public, we just don’t have enough yet”.

Or if they did I didn’t see it.

Agreed, I feel like my hospital changed recs quite a few times using the phrasing that current guidelines said “x” was safe but it was clearly a supply based recommendation. I could understand that but the dishonesty bothered me

 

[WVUPharm2007]

This thread is part of the reason why I think humans should just stop reproducing and give up. I get that we are the most advanced version of life Earth has produced. But I feel like if we just die off and let nature do a reroll, it can probably do better creating another rando intelligent species. Let's be honest. We can do better than us.

 

[JustFillIt]

This thread is part of the reason why I think humans should just stop reproducing and give up. I get that we are the most advanced version of life Earth has produced. But I feel like if we just die off and let nature do a reroll, it can probably do better creating another rando intelligent species. Let's be honest. We can do better than us.

Not jab at you or anything... But I am curious.. would you consider yourself exempt from this sort of policy?

 

[wagrxm2000]

I can say with 100% certainty that no one cares about the quarentine.

There were a couple hundred people at Lowe's today and almost none had masks on.

People want to be set free.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

That is exactly my point here. You're a pharmacist, quite frankly at near the middle/bottom of the totem pole as far as knowledge and standing in the scientific community. You have the audacity to go against the scientific fact of vaccine success and safety that has been proven and observed around the world by hundreds of thousands of PhD/MDs for the last 5-10+ centuries? It's baffling.



Again, you have zero evidence besides your youtube shows from people with zero credibility who try to pawn supplements off to people to make money. Great sources!

In a nutshell, you believe the entire scientific community across the globe is lying about the safety/success of vaccines. Do you hear how idiotic that sounds? When ~20 people in a room cannot keep a secret; you think that hundreds of thousands of independent doctoral researchers are doing this? The stuff that goes on in the head of the antivaxxer/flatearther/illuminati believing/etc.... good lord.

"sheeple" "wake up!" "do your research!"

Hold up. What?

Lets get this straight.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

Just because I question something, does not mean I completely dismiss the idea.

Yes, there are sheeps that do as theyre told. I am not one of them. I do not just “go with the crowd”.

That being said, I believe vaccines work and are necessary. Do they cause harm? i cannot know for sure but there are people who claim vaccines hurt them. I want to give those people the benefit of the doubt and question the “popular” theory. Is that wrong? No. Thats called real science.

Just like the same notion that I always questioned how water could curve. Even before this whole flat earth movement started. I looked into it and it made sense. I will believe what makes sense to me.

According to basic gas theory, how is the earth atmosphere kept intact? Doesnt gas flow from high concentration to low concentration? Is there a physical barrier that stops gas from leaving earth? I am just applying scientific knowledge I learned from school to ask these questions. Why is that so wrong?

At what point does the large body of water curve to a ball?

Why are so many people questioning the harmfulness of vaccines?

I am a scientist. Have research back ground and have multiple degrees in them. So asking questions is in my nature. Why is that so wrong? Because it goes against what you believe in? So what?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Apparently, there are so many of you that are always so right on everything without ever asking questions or answering them without having to insult others lol. Sigh. Maybe thats whats wrong with our profession. Most of us just do what we do without questioning why we do them. When informed everything is fine, we take it at face value without having to question and investigate.

If anyone is going to respond, I dare you to do so without insulting or aggressively shoving your own beliefs down someone else’s throat. If not, youre just talking to a wall.

 

[M0df]

Can I go first?

If we have a vaccine for this virus before the end of the year, I will question its safety and efficacy, unless it is from Germany. For some reason I have this weird view that if it is from there, it should be good. I don't know why.

 

[owlegrad]

The question “when does the water curve” doesn’t really make sense. It curves continuously. There isn’t a point where it stops curving. The slope is just beyond perception. Actually you can witness the slope of water curving if you want to, just watch a ship sail off into the horizon. The sail will be the last thing you see as the bottom of the bottom of the boat disappears under the water.

I think it’s gravity that keeps our atmosphere held together but I am not 100% certain on that.

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

Don't worry Victor, these naysayers will be reckoned with shortly. They profess scientific knowledge but lack common sense. Their demise is being concocted by the ones meant to save them lol.

These are the ones that wear face masks everywhere especially in their car or while excercising. They douse their hands with disinfectant so many times it looks like dried grapes. In the coming months their immune system will tank.

When their messiah shows up with the vaccine that will liberate us from the shacles of the lockdown, their coffins await them.

When they start getting sick, guess who they will blame? Not the vaccine but the dreaded Covid virus that has plagued humanity. They will taste the very poison they were injecting into unsuspecting poor masses of prior years.

Don't worry, history is doomed to repeat itself. But this time the bourgeoisie will be wiped away along with the masses.

Victor, me and you can make sure the doctors write the cause of their death from the vaccines as Covid. Since this virus was so deadly it can't be anything else lol

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

The question “when does the water curve” doesn’t really make sense. It curves continuously. There isn’t a point where it stops curving. The slope is just beyond perception. Actually you can witness the slope of water curving if you want to, just watch a ship sail off into the horizon. The sail will be the last thing you see as the bottom of the bottom of the boat disappears under the water.

I think it’s gravity that keeps our atmosphere held together but I am not 100% certain on that.

Have you seen the disappeared ship come back in sight? I actually have. If it completely went over the curve, the no matter how good of camera you have, it should not be seen correct? Yet, with a camera that has high zoom power, the ship can be seen again. My mind was blown. Also, if curve can be seen vertically, why cant it be seen horizontally?

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

Can I go first?

If we have a vaccine for this virus before the end of the year, I will question its safety and efficacy, unless it is from Germany. For some reason I have this weird view that if it is from there, it should be good. I don't know why.

Why should you question it, that's not your habit. If Fauci, WHO and CDC say it's ok you need to take it.

I am hoping they come up with something quick so they can give it to y'all and we can see what happens. We can run our own peer reviewed trials lol

 

[M0df]

As I said before, Victor and Lazy don't even share same views. It is more of enemy of my enemy thing.

In your apocalyptic world, do you need to go to school to be MD or can you do it online.

 

[M0df]

Can you please post where I referred to Fauci or CDC in any of my posts?

Just like you said. Do your research. I did mine too.

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

As I said before, Victor and Lazy don't even share same views. It is more of enemy of my enemy thing.

In your apocalyptic world, do you need to go to school to be MD or can you do it online.

We may not share the same same views but he has more sense than most people when he started questioning the obvious. He's not letting ivory tower oppressors thwart his mind.

Education will cease to exist for most people, it will be reserved for the social elite that will arise from this crisis, as it was for most of modern human history.

 

[JustFillIt]

That being said, I believe vaccines work and are necessary. Do they cause harm? i cannot know for sure but there are people who claim vaccines hurt them. I want to give those people the benefit of the doubt and question the “popular” theory. Is that wrong? No. Thats called real science.

Before I say what I’m going to say I want to preface it by saying : I have all of my vaccines and I get my flu shot regularly. I have 5 children and they all have ALL of their scheduled vaccinations.

With that being said, Victor said something interesting and very true - regardless at how hard we roll our eyes at someone with a different point of view. He said, “do vaccines cause harm? I can’t be for sure”

Like I said - we can roll our eyes so hard that they explode out of our frontal lobes, but the truth is - we do not know for sure. The only foundation we have to establish this truth is statistics. Even though statistics may be the best way that we as humans have established to determine truth - it can often mislead us and dose not account well for the minority numbers or outliers.

A more interesting truth is the fact that we have no idea what is happening on a microscopic level. We can not record the microscopic process that happens on a total body system after a vaccination is injected. We can only assume.. Do we know for sure that, on a microscopic level, these injections are not initiating processes in the body that we are less aware of and may be happening without our knowledge? Absolutely...

Therefore - perhaps Victor is being more honest about the known truth than the rest of us.. I have always felt this way about vaccinations, and medications in general, however I am the kind of guy that does not kick against the pricks so I follow suit and just do it..

What is most frustrating to me is this social dynamic that we, as humans, are so adept to... A response of shaming has been put into place for anyone who questions this institution in order use the masses to point, laugh, and ridicule anyone who may ask a question.

 

[owlegrad]

Have you seen the disappeared ship come back in sight? I actually have. If it completely went over the curve, the no matter how good of camera you have, it should not be seen correct? Yet, with a camera that has high zoom power, the ship can be seen again. My mind was blown. Also, if curve can be seen vertically, why cant it be seen horizontally?

I hear you but there is a limit to how far that phenomena extends. For example with a telescope we can see Jupiter but not Tokyo. A curved earth accounts for that pretty well.

Also GPS wouldn’t work without satellites circling a curved earth.

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

Can you please post where I referred to Fauci or CDC in any of my posts?

Just like you said. Do your research. I did mine too.

You didn't explicitly refer to them but I assumed you shared their sentiment. They are all the same to me. We are in this lockdown because of people like them. My bad if you don't rock with them.

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

Before I say what I’m going to say I want to preface it by saying : I have all of my vaccines and I get my flu shot regularly. I have 5 children and they all have ALL of their scheduled vaccinations.

With that being said, Victor said something interesting and very true - regardless at how hard we roll our eyes at someone with a different point of view. He said, “do vaccines cause harm? I can’t be for sure”

Like I said - we can roll our eyes so hard that they explode out of our frontal lobes, but the truth is - we do not know for sure. The only foundation we have to establish this truth is statistics. Even though statistics may be the best way that we as humans have established to determine truth - it can often mislead us and dose not account well for the minority numbers or outliers.

A more interesting truth is the fact that we have no idea what is happening on a microscopic level. We can not record the microscopic process that happens on a total body system after a vaccination is injected. We can only assume.. Do we know for sure that, on a microscopic level, these injections are not initiating processes in the body that we are less aware of and may be happening without our knowledge? Absolutely...

Therefore - perhaps Victor is being more honest about the known truth than the rest of us.. I have always felt this way about vaccinations, and medications in general, however I am the kind of guy that does not kick against the pricks so I follow suit and just do it..

What is most frustrating to me is this social dynamic that we, as humans, are so adept to... A response of shaming has been put into place for anyone who questions this institution in order use the masses to point, laugh, and ridicule anyone who may ask a question.

Thank you for at least admitting the possibility

 

[JustFillIt]

Wait. Are you being serious? Are you guys really this dense?

What do you think microbiologists, virologists, immunologists do? This isn't a new field of science dude.

No - your telling me that a microbiologist has visually observed and visually recorded every single bodily response, on the entire body system, that takes place after administration of a vaccination - or any medication for that matter?

Just cause you can flex up and get all huffy puffy does not make you more right than anyone else.

The real way that we practice medicine is based on a system of risks/benefits. If the benefits outweigh the risks of medication use - we go forward with the idea that we know that we can not control every single side effect of every single medication.

Just because I understand the big picture a little better does not mean that you have the right to use your speech-craft to demean me.

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

No - your telling me that a microbiologist has visually observed and visually recorded every single bodily response, on the entire body system, that takes place after administration of a vaccination - or any medication for that matter?

Just cause you can flex up and get all huffy puffy does not make you more right than anyone else.

The real way that we practice medicine is based on a system of risks/benefits. If the benefits outweigh the risks of medication use - we go forward with the idea that we know that we can not control every single side effect of every single medication.

Just because I understand the big picture a little better does not mean that you have the right to use your speech-craft to demean me.

This is how their kind responds. Oh I can't wait for this vaccine to come haha

 

[PharmDBro2017]

It makes me sad as a healthcare professional and pharmacist that we don't stand up for science and shut down all the misinformation and quackery that is posted. Some of you guys are a disgrace to our profession. It's like you skipped the lectures on phase 1-4 and how thorough our approval/safety/efficacy testing process is.

With that notion, I'm out. You guys are the epitome of this quote.
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

 

[JustFillIt]

It makes me sad as a healthcare professional and pharmacist that we don't stand up for science and shut down all the misinformation and quackery that is posted. Some of you guys are a disgrace to our profession. It's like you skipped the lectures on phase 1-4 and how thorough our approval/safety/efficacy testing process is.

With that notion, I'm out. You guys are the epitome of this quote.
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Yes - “shutting down all misinformation” has become a popular trend, in this country, over the past 20 years.

 

[M0df]

JustFillIt, I agree with you about this is a society problem as a whole. It is hard to have a different point of view. But this is internet. No real established etiquette or rules. To be honest, no one has been banned etc and this is ongoing discussion for last few months. All things considered, it is not too bad.

 

[TheBlaah]

No - your telling me that a microbiologist has visually observed and visually recorded every single bodily response, on the entire body system, that takes place after administration of a vaccination - or any medication for that matter?

Just cause you can flex up and get all huffy puffy does not make you more right than anyone else.

The real way that we practice medicine is based on a system of risks/benefits. If the benefits outweigh the risks of medication use - we go forward with the idea that we know that we can not control every single side effect of every single medication.

Just because I understand the big picture a little better does not mean that you have the right to use your speech-craft to demean me.

With that line of thinking, you may as well question whether drinking water causes harm. Or eating bread. Or breathing.

At a certain point, there's much more controversial and useful things to question.

 

[JustFillIt]

With that line of thinking, you may as well question whether drinking water causes harm. Or eating bread. Or breathing.

At a certain point, there's much more controversial and useful things to question.

Sure - funny thing is, I think all of those questions have been debated too.

Like I said:

-I get my yearly vaccines because I have decided that, for me, the benefits outweigh the risks.

-all of my kids have had their full schedule of vaccines

-I have given thousands of vaccines to men, women, and children

- when I am asked about the autism thing I reply, “current evidence does not support this concept”

- I do not support the idea that vaccines cause autism, sterilize, or otherwise are harmful to humans.

But - I maintain my position that it does not matter how many people point, laugh, and ridicule. It does not change the fact that this is a risk/benefit thing that we are engaged in. And in the long run we do a lot of what we do without knowing the many outcomes that may, or may not, be associated with our decisions. Could vaccines have harmful outcomes associated that we are unaware of?

In my opinion - Absolutely... and to say otherwise is shortsighted.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I hear you but there is a limit to how far that phenomena extends. For example with a telescope we can see Jupiter but not Tokyo. A curved earth accounts for that pretty well.

Also GPS wouldn’t work without satellites circling a curved earth.

Good point. Based on what I found out there are good reasons for this. Im still reading and trying to do some research but I can tell you that those very valid point of views could be re examined if you look into a guy named Rob Skiba. Interesting guy. Smart and logical. Man of god and faith. Met him in person. Hes a local guy here in Texas. Opened my eyes to alot of things.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Yes - “shutting down all misinformation” has become a popular trend, in this country, over the past 20 years.

It almost impossible to weed out whats right and wrong nowadays. Misinformation could just mean at what perspective you look at the problem from. Which is why we should continue ask the right questions.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

As I said before, Victor and Lazy don't even share same views. It is more of enemy of my enemy thing.

In your apocalyptic world, do you need to go to school to be MD or can you do it online.

Is this what its all about? Whos side whos on? Lol come on man it aint middle school. Stand your own ground. And stop putting words in people’s mouths. Literally no one said anything you claimed said. Youre just taking a piece of whats said and making a book out of it. If you dont have anything tangible to say about it and mad that someone disagrees with you, just stay out of the convo.

 

[BMBiology]

Business owners are taking the biggest L. They are not making any money but if they don’t pay their debt, their credit would be destroyed and they would not be able to borrow again. That is a death sentence for most businesses.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

This is literally what is happening.

"There might be something wrong with how covid19 death is reported. Economy is crashing and people are suffering. We should weigh the pros and cons and probably should open the economy"

"NOOOOOOOO. Why do you only care about yourself?!! you're gonna kill everyone!!!! you antivaxxer!!!!!"

lol