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Pharmacy Job Market/Outlook

Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by Pillmaster, May 26, 2005.

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  1. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival Banned Account on Hold

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    San francisco, California
    this. Also OP said the attriction rate was 12%. It is more like 6-3%.
    https://lecom.edu/about-lecom/lecom-accreditation/lecom-school-of-pharmacy-outcome-measures/
     
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  3. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival Banned Account on Hold

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    Dec 21, 2015
    San francisco, California
    -Have I exhausted all of my options in this area?

    YES

    -Is my best next step to start emailing DMs outside of this area? and how would I approach them.

    Outside the area? are you serious? do you not know how saturated pharmacy is right now? Start with outside the state then try doing rural midwest/texas and alaska. PharmDs are being printed cheaply. The easy part is getting the degree. hard part is finding a job

    -Does my past experience as a technician count for anything?
    It's virtually worthless

    -Is not having worked as an intern a downside that would keep employers from possibly hiring me?

    Yes it is a downside. This is a competitive market.

    -Once I do find a position, will I get some form of training or will I just be sent out to start
    working, I know I will at least have to learn the software.

    Once the gap in your CV gets too big you will not get a position bc employers will think what is wrong with this guy for so many ppl to pass up on them.

    You should consider going back to school for an in demand degree such as RN, NP, CRNA, PA or MD.
     
  4. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    The job market has really gotten to the point of being so bad that if someone graduates from pharmacy school, can't find a position immediately and decides to wait a few months for one to open up in their area, and one doesn't open up by then, they will have ruined their chances of ever getting a pharmacist job and basically will have no choice but to go back to school and do something else?
     
  5. gwarm01

    gwarm01 7+ Year Member

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    I wouldn't say ruined, but it certainly becomes harder to find a job the longer you go without working. I think it's safe to say that is true in almost every field.
     
    BidingMyTime and Humble Sloth like this.
  6. Digsbe

    Digsbe 5+ Year Member

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    Pharmacist
    I got my license 2 months ago. Can't land a job in my area so I'm getting licensed in 2 more states now. The job market is extremely tight. Many positions in my area require "1 year experience" basically to say "new grads need not even try." Despite having hospital based APPEs it's still impossible to land even overnight shifts. The saturation is real. If you cant land a job withib a month or 2 of licensure just get licensed in other states. The situation isn't going to change.
     
    Litha likes this.
  7. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival Banned Account on Hold

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    San francisco, California
    You dropped the ball. You should have already been licensed in other states. Waiting is a very bad idea. Not only are you losing real income you are also hurting your CV. You should consider extreme rural areas.
     
  8. Digsbe

    Digsbe 5+ Year Member

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    At the time I didn't have the funds to pay over $1,000 in board + exam fees to get licensed in other states. All I can do is work with what I have at this point. I only know of 5 or so students that landed jobs in my area from my school and they all interned for many years (one of the major chains had 20 interns graduate, could only hold on to 2 from my school). The rest did residencies, are still looking, or moved to other states.
     
    Litha likes this.
  9. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival Banned Account on Hold

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    San francisco, California
    How not? it's called loan money.
     
  10. Digsbe

    Digsbe 5+ Year Member

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    Pharmacist
    I don't have a high credit limit, I don't come from a wealthy family that can loan me money, and I had used whatever excess in student loans to fund my licensing and fees which cost nearly $1,000 for my state alone. I know I likely didn't make the wisest choice in trying to get licensed here at all, but at this point I can only work with what I have right now. The thing I'd say is for everyone else to avoid the position me and many others are in. Don't attempt to find work in a saturated area at all and take whatever job offer you can, anywhere. The states I'm being licensed in I've had recruiters and a few companies contact me when I interviewed with them at job fairs regarding their districts. Go where there is a need or where companies have expressed interest in having you there, don't stick around for family, friends, or significant others and try to find work in saturated areas. For every new grad there are also 50+ experienced pharmacists also vying for the same job, you have no chance.
     
  11. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival Banned Account on Hold

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    San francisco, California
    yeah man. sounds like you went to an expensive school and lived lavishly if you were near your federal loans. LECOM is a 3 year 27k a year school. You shouldn't have had more than 85k + 20k for food/rent in loans.
     
  12. Digsbe

    Digsbe 5+ Year Member

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    I lived with parents and took out the minimum possible to cover tuition and what little living expenses I had. I went to a school near family to save on room and board and also to help care for my grandmother that lives here that had a stroke as well as care for my grandfather who fell ill and passed away during my P4 year. My goal was to stay close (within an hour and a half) to still help care for family as I'm the oldest sibling and due to all my immediate family being here. But that plan isn't working so I'm working with what I got and leaving for my next best option. As far as being in school I interned with 2 companies, held leadership roles in school organizations, worked on research projects, got published, won awards for presentations, etc. The lesson is being a "model" student isn't going to trump 1 year of experience that hiring managers want to see on a CV. If your market is saturated unless you have a job offer prior to graduation don't even try.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2016
    rxdawg21 and Litha like this.
  13. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    Sorry to hear the job market is so saturated in your area. If you don't mind, can I ask what state you're in? Even in the relatively undesirable GA city I'm from, hospitals are (at minimum) requiring 1 year of experience, or, as one local hospital recently started requiring, one year of experience PLUS a PGY-1. All the retail positions except for 2 that are currently open at CVS are also completely filled. I guess even the undesirable areas are starting to hit the saturation point, because a year ago today, there were positions posted by all the retail chains here (e.g., CVS, Walgreens, Rite Aid, Walmart, Publix, Bi-Lo, you name it).
     
  14. Litha

    Litha

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    Mar 26, 2016
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    Pharmacist
    I had pretty much the same experience as you. Graduated in May, licensed by mid-June, and only just started a full-time job 2 weeks ago! This wasn't for lack of effort.

    I didn't keep an exact tally, but I applied to ~100 job postings from April-August. I got a second state license during this process (license in hand by early Sept.) simply because my state is super saturated and I continually was getting passed up for positions (many overnight) by other candidates with "more experience", despite me having several years intern experience and diverse APPEs, just like you. Crazy frustrating.

    I cringe at the thought of new students entering pharmacy school, they are going to have it even worse graduating in 4 years! I am holding on tight to the full-time job I managed to find and am more grateful every day.
     
  15. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival Banned Account on Hold

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    Dec 21, 2015
    San francisco, California
    You would have been much better off getting C's in all your classes and working retail and networking like crazy during pharm school. school org fluff is completely worthless; managers see right through that crap. Arkansas, Mississippi and Alabama are high demand areas right now. Get licensed in one of those states.
     
  16. gwarm01

    gwarm01 7+ Year Member

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    It'll be hard to get an overnight position in a hospital without experience. That position needs someone that has been around the block because you'll often be the only pharmacist in the entire hospital and need to know a little bit about everything. You don't have anyone else to fall back on overnight if there is a crisis. That's a big reason why you'll get extra incentives like a big shift differential or 7 on/7 off to attract experienced people.

    Arkansas is kind of a dead zone for hospital jobs though. I rarely see positions posted if he is interested in that, but I think our retail game is still pretty strong.

    That said, Baptist is about to open a new hospital in Conway, which is a nice suburb about 20 minutes from Little Rock. Arkansas Children's is opening a small hospital in the Fayetteville area next year, one of the most desirable and beautiful areas of the state. Also I'm not aware of any hospitals that require residency around here. The culture is still such that we don't mind training new pharmacists to do the job.
     
    PharmD500 and Dalteparin like this.
  17. giga

    giga 10+ Year Member

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    Aug 23, 2005
    Pharmacist
    USPHS
    Did you try applying to federal government jobs (e.g., VA, IHS, BOP [Bureau of Prisons])? You only need to be licensed in one state and you can work anywhere in the country with a fed job.
     
  18. Digsbe

    Digsbe 5+ Year Member

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    Pharmacist
    I applied for a position with the NIH which I knew was a long shot. I have close family friends that work for the FDA who told me to try and apply when they open apps and I plan to, I'd love to have a position there.
     
  19. giga

    giga 10+ Year Member

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    Aug 23, 2005
    Pharmacist
    USPHS
    FDA has a few job announcements currently open that you might qualify for. As a recent PharmD grad, you have a decent shot at GS-11 rated jobs, and you might even qualify for GS-12 jobs. Just search around usajobs.gov, and if you find a job you think you'd be a good fit for, apply for it via usajobs.gov, but also definitely follow-up with your contacts at FDA and ask them if they know anything about a particular job you are interested in. Keep in mind it can take several months to come on board with the fed government (from the moment you apply to the moment you get your first pay check can easily take 6 months).
     
  20. Michael_Scott

    Michael_Scott Best Boss

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    I feel for you. I wish you nothing but the best and I hope you get a Job where you are happy...I know the struggles coming from a family who cannot support your education financially.
     
    Marina22 likes this.
  21. zamir

    zamir 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 25, 2012
    Mr. Sloth,

    I only saw your response today so sorry about my late response. I would like to inform you that I was able to stay in the area in which I was looking for employment and have landed a position. Thank you for all of your help.
     
    Abby Atwood likes this.
  22. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival Banned Account on Hold

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    Dec 21, 2015
    San francisco, California
    thank me in 5 years when you burn out of retail.
     
  23. zamir

    zamir 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 25, 2012
    You are being optimistic with the 5 year thought :) Anyways I'm happy to get started on my career and will try my best to stay optimistic and open minded... What path did retail end up sending you?
     
    Abby Atwood and Marina22 like this.
  24. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival Banned Account on Hold

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    Dec 21, 2015
    San francisco, California
    the same path it sends everyone.

    <spoiler>
    Across the river Styx.

    </spoiler>
     
  25. supertwon

    supertwon

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    With a pharmacy degree, you now have to think outside the box because it is not guaranteed that the retail stores will handout six figure jobs with no questions asked.

    This is an example of what i mean: http://medsguides.com/
     
  26. radio frequency

    radio frequency 2+ Year Member

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    Dec 18, 2012
    You mean you made this website yourself? I'm not sure this makes the statement you mean for it to make.
     
  27. gwarm01

    gwarm01 7+ Year Member

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    Poor advice. There are thousands of pharmacy graduates each year, all earning a degree with a very narrow focus. There are only so many things you can do with the PharmD to make a good return on investment, and the vast majority of these positions are in dispensing roles. Anyone with a little computer knowledge can create a website. The right person with the right focus can even create a great online medical resource. However, the thousands of graduating pharmacists will probably need jobs in pharmacy. There is no amount of outside the box thinking that will employ all of them.
     
  28. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival Banned Account on Hold

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    Dec 21, 2015
    San francisco, California
    umm they could open more schools like they have been then hire those pharmDs and keep doing this till there are like 400 pharmacy schools
     
    gwarm01 likes this.
  29. a student

    a student 5+ Year Member

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    You mean pyramid scheme? That sounds like a good idea! Each school should collect a percentage of the profit from their students who open new schools.
     
    swatchgirl and BidingMyTime like this.
  30. msweph

    msweph 2+ Year Member

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    How are you making any money off this? Lol
     
    radio frequency likes this.
  31. El Trombopag

    El Trombopag 2+ Year Member

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    Dec 7, 2013
    We're having a very hard time getting experienced people at our hospital. Our last several hires have been desperate retailers, mostly recent grads. We're fairly rural I guess, but within a couple hours of Seattle/Tacoma. The 'year of experience' we ask for is really just a means to avoid paying full time wage X 3-6 months before someone can run on their own. New grads with excellent intern experience will do just fine. I don't understand our lack of applicants. Low cost of living, easy to buy 5+ acres. . .maybe I'm just a happy hick. Our last full time day shift offering netted TWO applicants who came in for interviews.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  32. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival Banned Account on Hold

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    Dec 21, 2015
    San francisco, California
    Med and pharm students have below average biological fitness. This means they suck at dating and mating. When they finish school a disproportionate amount of pharmds are single or near single. They want to maximize their chance of reproductive success by playing the numbers game in large metros
     
    Hohohee1 likes this.
  33. BidingMyTime

    BidingMyTime Lost Shaker Of Salt 10+ Year Member

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    Illinois
    Which goes to show, there will always be some jobs available, that nobody wants because of the location. Which doesn't make any sense for a single, new graduate. They need to tell their friends they will see them in a few years, then move for the job. It is far, far easier to get a job in a desired locale, once someone has some experience, than it to get a job in a desired locale for someone with no experience.

    For your specific locale, El Trombopag, I think you need to accept that it is an undesirable location and that you aren't going to get applicants with experience. So offer a higher starting salary if you do ever get someone with experience, but give a lower starting salary for the pharmacist coming in with no experience. Or offer a lower starting salary, that will be bumped up once the person has completed 90 days (or even 180 days) of a probation period. Surely human resources will work with you on this.
     
  34. Hohohee1

    Hohohee1

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  35. Digsbe

    Digsbe 5+ Year Member

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    Pharmacist
    I landed a position recently. I'd say just avoid completely saturated areas. Within a month of being licensed in 2 new states I got employment in a large, desirable metropolitan area. I wouldn't look for a job in a city with more than 1 pharmacy school.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
  36. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    What about cities that don't actually have a pharmacy school, but where there are 4 pharmacy schools all located within a 1.5-2 hour radius?
     
  37. Digsbe

    Digsbe 5+ Year Member

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    Pharmacist
    I guess it depends. I'd scan indeed, glassdoor, and other job posting sites to see how quickly positions get filled. In my area most were filled within a week and they typically took transfers from out of region.
     
  38. swatchgirl

    swatchgirl Exercise your brains out, so you don't get sick. 10+ Year Member

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    Florida
    Are you a hospital pharmacist or are you working retail? If retail, is it full-time, part-time or overnight?
     
  39. Digsbe

    Digsbe 5+ Year Member

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    Pharmacist
    Retail 40 hr full time days
     
    swatchgirl likes this.
  40. swatchgirl

    swatchgirl Exercise your brains out, so you don't get sick. 10+ Year Member

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    Sep 8, 2007
    Florida
    How long have you been a retail pharmacist? Do you like it better than hospital? Are you male or female, single or married with kids? Thanks! :)
     
  41. Digsbe

    Digsbe 5+ Year Member

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    Pharmacist
    I'm just starting, I wouldn't say I like it more or less than hospital. In retail I love giving immunizations and time goes by faster, the cons obviously are that it's retail. Hospital you get breaks, can sit, but honestly it felt monotonous when I did hospital staffing on rotation. It wasn't bad, time just went slower. There are pros and cons to both, but most pharmacists will probably say they would prefer hospital.

    I'm male, single, no kids.
     
  42. 8turkeys

    8turkeys 2+ Year Member

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  43. Circumnavigate

    Circumnavigate

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    Those numbers are suspicious. I have been following that site, they released numbers for September 2016 and said Montana was at 4.0, two months later they release numbers for December 2016 and say Montana is 3.0. A bunch of other states have had drastic number shifts in that two month period, this leads me to question the accuracy of their numbers.
     
  44. gwarm01

    gwarm01 7+ Year Member

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    Maybe Montana had 10 openings and managed to fill a few of them with desperate pharmacists from the northeast? ;)

    If anything the Manpower Project has been criticized for being a little too forgiving with regard to the actual pharmacist market in the past. Perhaps they've revamped their methods? Hell, it could be something as simple as a big push by a major retailer during the previous data sample. Something like CVS entering a new market causing a brief surge in demand. Who can tell.. Their overall trend data (which appears to be unavailable at the moment) has shown a steady decrease in demand over the past decade.
     
  45. PharmerIsMe

    PharmerIsMe 2+ Year Member

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    I agree, we should not rely on this indicator at all. They even stated it in the website:
    "Data and information are provided for informational purposes only. Neither the Pharmacy Workforce Center nor any of its affiliates shall be liable for any errors or delays in the content or for any actions taken in reliance thereon."

    Also, they have the following statement:
    "The Pharmacist Demand Indicator (PDI) reports perceptions of the demand for pharmacists among a panel of individuals that participate in the hiring of pharmacists on a direct and regular basis."

    Perception of demand...a panel of individuals. Enough said.

    It would be nice to say in the real world something like this without getting scrutinized by others:
    "our PT committee perceives that this drug is cheaper than the other"
    Or
    "A new article by the NEJM perceives that atenolol decreases side effects..."
     
    BidingMyTime likes this.
  46. Sine Cura

    Sine Cura 10 seconds or less 7+ Year Member

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    Just treat it as another piece of information and consider other pieces of information.

    Ex: Nevada has a low PDI. Hmm, Roseman graduates 200+ a year and 80% of Nevada's population is either in Clark County or around Reno. The other 20% live in places "no one wants to go." This one is not too surprising.

    Ex: Northern California has the same PDI as Alaska? Hmm, unlikely in the Bay Area and Sacramento with 4 pharmacy schools in northern CA (Touro, UCSF, UoP, CNUCOP) but some pockets are in higher demand than other areas (North Coast, Shastas, Gold Country, Central Valley 50 miles south and 50 miles north of Sacramento).
     
  47. UW2015

    UW2015 2+ Year Member

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    Where the heck are you located? A good portion of last years class at my school is employed, most in state with some returning to home states, or going to other states for rotations.... Are you only looking for clinical positions?
     
  48. rxgirl123456

    rxgirl123456

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    Recently got licensed and currently living in the Metropolitan area. I've talked to classmates, many have found jobs, but some have been unemployed since graduation May 2016. I'm thinking of just getting licensed in other states to increase my odds of employment. I've never worked during school, meaning the only experience I have are APPE rotations. What are my chances of employment? I'm willing to move to other state, however, I'm scared that with my lack of experience, even rural areas won't hire me.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  49. Litha

    Litha

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    Mar 26, 2016
    Pacific NW
    Pharmacist
    You graduated in May 2016 and just got licensed this month? What have you been doing since graduation?

    While getting licensed in other states can be lucrative, it is also very expensive and I would urge you to think carefully about the cost vs. benefits before shelling out thousands for multiple states licenses.

    Multiple red flags for me here... Not working during school, extremely large gap between graduation and getting licensed. You are right that your lack of experience means you are a risky bet for many places, especially now that it's about time for Class of 2017 to get in the game.
     
    radio frequency likes this.
  50. rxgirl123456

    rxgirl123456

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    Thank you for you input Litha,
    I took the boards and failed the Naplex once, which was a bummer and a confidence killer. Then, I decided to take some time off and went abroad for a while and came back all refreshed and began studying for the new naplex.
    I know those are concerns, which is why I'm asking for opinions on what I should be doing right now.
    I have classmates who had been licensed since the summer and had been working during school and they are still unemployed at the moment because they haven't applied out of state.
     
  51. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    What state are you in, just out of curiosity?
     

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