Pitt vs. Hofstra

[pastafanatic]

Welp, with both financial aid packages in, everything is on the table and I'm down to this decision....feeling both very, very lucky and deeply conflicted! Aid packages left me with essentially the same cost (give or take ~1K), so it's really down to the specifics of the schools.

Pitt
Pros:
+ strong research, integrated scholarly project that can be as creative as you want
+ low cost of living in a cool city, with bus pass included in tuition
+ overall strong school with many well-ranked specialties and strong primary care (interested in peds, but possibly also ophth) and tons of NIH funding
+ clicked well with those I met at 2nd look
Cons:
- no family/friends (yet!) in the pittsburgh/ohio area; airport is far and pittsburgh in general is far-ish from home (6 hr drive or expensive 1.5 hr flight)
- boring lectures with focus on basic sciences (really not looking forward to boring lectures/being inundated with facts to memorize again)

Hofstra
Pros:
+ close to family and friends, already have a close friend there, students seemed really humble and kind (but still brilliant!)
+ awesome, hands-on learning style that focuses on clinical stuff which I can't wait to jump into
+ small class size and intimate support from faculty, staff, etc.
+ really like NY, may want to end up there eventually
Cons:
- not as strong of a push for scholarship; dunno if this matters if I'm not completely set on academic medicine. Also, supposedly summer research stipends are readily available (same for Pitt)
- newer school so residency directors are not as familiar with its students (although match lists have been pretty good so far)
- somewhat boring surroundings, but very convenient so don't mind too much

Tl;dr Pitt is a well-respected school with awesome opportunities, but Hofstra has an attractive preclinical curriculum that seems to fit my learning style and is closer to my support system. To put this into context, I've been away from home for ~6 years, so I'm sure I can manage...but also, I do miss my close friends and family, and may want to end up back in NY eventually. I think I'm interested in pediatrics, but also may be interested in pursuing a more competitive specialty in which school prestige/research would be important. Which would you choose, if you were in ma shoooz?

Any insight would be much appreciated

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[Lawpy]

I'd go with Pitt. The preclinical differences are personally less important than the differences in opportunities, although Hofstra is becoming pretty strong in the near future.

 

[Pr1d3D0c]

Based off what you wrote, I get the sense that you like Hof better but the difference in prestige is scaring you off. I'm sorry if I misread your intention there, but if I am right, I would choose Hof. I think it is more important to choose a school you want to be at over one you wouldn't be as happy with. I sent a LOI (not to Hof) for a school ranked lower than some of my other interviews, but I would still go there in a heartbeat even if I had gotten into Harvard. So, OP, I would go with your gut here.

 

[787593]

Pitt

 

[pastafanatic]

Based off what you wrote, I get the sense that you like Hof better but the difference in prestige is scaring you off. I'm sorry if I misread your intention there, but if I am right, I would choose Hof. I think it is more important to choose a school you want to be at over one you wouldn't be as happy with. I sent a LOI (not to Hof) for a school ranked lower than some of my other interviews, but I would still go there in a heartbeat even if I had gotten into Harvard. So, OP, I would go with your gut here.

I think you hit the nail on the head, and I totally agree with your sentiment! But also, my feelings really change by the hour haha...yesterday, I really thought I favored Hofstra, but today I'm feeling pumped about Pitt. I find that when I'm feeling tired/down I favor Hofstra because it feels safe and comfortable whereas when I'm feeling upbeat I tend to get excited about Pitt.

 

[ohnotornadooo]

Totally true that Pitt has plenty of "boring" basic science lectures, but that isn't the entirety of the curriculum. In most blocks, the lectures are put into clinical context in PBLs/TBLs/workshops where you go through a clinical case with a facilitator who is an expert in the field. I was pretty skeptical of the small group format before starting, but I've found them generally helpful and at the very least fun. There are generally a few purely clinical lectures or patient presentations each week to supplement the basic science material. Pitt will also have you seeing patients in January of your first year, after spending the fall semester practicing basic interview and physical exam skills. From the sound of it Hofstra likely also has early patient interaction, but I just don't want you getting the sense that Pitt is only boring science fact lectures. We're all about *fun* science fact lectures plus a ton of clinical experience your first year.

Also: regarding travel from Pittsburgh to New York, Amtrak is a great deal (way cheaper than airfare if you buy in advance), and you can work in the dining car for the nine hour ride while looking at gorgeous scenery out the window.

 

[pastafanatic]

Totally true that Pitt has plenty of "boring" basic science lectures, but that isn't the entirety of the curriculum. In most blocks, the lectures are put into clinical context in PBLs/TBLs/workshops where you go through a clinical case with a facilitator who is an expert in the field. I was pretty skeptical of the small group format before starting, but I've found them generally helpful and at the very least fun. There are generally a few purely clinical lectures or patient presentations each week to supplement the basic science material. Pitt will also have you seeing patients in January of your first year, after spending the fall semester practicing basic interview and physical exam skills. From the sound of it Hofstra likely also has early patient interaction, but I just don't want you getting the sense that Pitt is only boring science fact lectures. We're all about *fun* science fact lectures plus a ton of clinical experience your first year.

Also: regarding travel from Pittsburgh to New York, Amtrak is a great deal (way cheaper than airfare if you buy in advance), and you can work in the dining car for the nine hour ride while looking at gorgeous scenery out the window.

Thanks for that insight!! Are you originally from NY?

 

[pastafanatic]

I'd go with Pitt. The preclinical differences are personally less important than the differences in opportunities, although Hofstra is becoming pretty strong in the near future.

Lawper, what do you mean when you say Hofstra is becoming pretty strong in the near future? Also, can you elaborate on why you think opportunities > preclinical? Thanks!!

 

[Lawpy]

Lawper, what do you mean when you say Hofstra is becoming pretty strong in the near future? Also, can you elaborate on why you think opportunities > preclinical? Thanks!!

Hofstra is a recently new school that's climbing up in rankings pretty fast. And their matriculant averages are pretty high relative to the other recently new schools (i think their averages are like 3.7/34 with a stronger emphasis on MCAT). Their affiliated hospital system is pretty famous and offers great clinical training. Given this, I could see Hofstra climbing up the ranks and becoming more established/reputable in a few years time.

That said, Pitt is, to me, in a different level altogether due to an abundance of opportunities and a strong, established presence. Preclinical education/grades is among the least important factors emphasized by residency program directors (it's in the NRMP Charting Outcomes posted somewhere here), so I don't think the boring lectures at Pitt are a significant drawback. To me, they are some usual nuisance to be dealt with to enjoy a wealth of opportunities that will be hugely helpful in the long term, especially if you decide to pursue academic medicine.

 

[ohnotornadooo]

Thanks for that insight!! Are you originally from NY?

From NJ originally, but I have a ton of friends and family in the city. And I want to reiterate Lawper's point: pre-clinical years really don't matter. Unless you know 100% that you won't be able to realistically make it through a lecture based curriculum (which shouldn't be the case with anyone who got accepted to med school), I wouldn't give the structure of the pre-clinical years too much weight in your decision. The way it's organized at some schools might click with your learning style more than others, but in the end you're learning the same stuff wherever you go. You can do research/shadowing/networking in any field or specialty at Pitt and get connected to mentors who will give you a strong leg up in residency applications. There's just so much going on here. It's crazy.

 

[pastafanatic]

I hear you guys, and the opportunities at Pitt really sound invaluable. Also, as far as personal enrichment goes, Pittsburgh as a city definitely has more to offer than LI. But, I think a lot of these comments have focused on career stuff...what about personal, life stuff? My career is a very important part of my life, but I don't want it to be my entire life. I've heard from many a med student that it is good to have a support system outside of medical school to get through those stressful times, and thus far I don't think anyone has acknowledged that pro of Hof...wondering if anyone can comment? It seemed like a majority of the students I met at second look either are from PGH/OH area, have family nearby, or are bringing a significant other...which isn't my case, so could see myself having serious fomo from missing out on family events, friends' birthdays, etc. Realistically though, will I even have time in med school to see them much anyway, even if I'm close by?

 

[Lawpy]

I hear you guys, and the opportunities at Pitt really sound invaluable. Also, as far as personal enrichment goes, Pittsburgh as a city definitely has more to offer than LI. But, I think a lot of these comments have focused on career stuff...what about personal, life stuff? My career is a very important part of my life, but I don't want it to be my entire life. I've heard from many a med student that it is good to have a support system outside of medical school to get through those stressful times, and thus far I don't think anyone has acknowledged that pro of Hof...wondering if anyone can comment? It seemed like a majority of the students I met at second look either are from PGH/OH area, have family nearby, or are bringing a significant other...which isn't my case, so could see myself having serious fomo from missing out on family events, friends' birthdays, etc. Realistically though, will I even have time in med school to see them much anyway, even if I'm close by?

This is where the decision becomes personal and it really depends on how you prioritize various factors that matter to you. @voteknope school selection spreadsheet can be a very useful guide for this stuff

School Selection Spreadsheet

I definitely believe you won't go wrong with either option. It's just that Pitt offers some advantages that are more worth it than Hofstra. But worthiness is subjective and individualized. If being close to family and friends is very important to you, go to Hofstra. Support system is essential, and being burnt out and depressed in a school with awesome resources can be disastrous.

 

[pastafanatic]

This is where the decision becomes personal and it really depends on how you prioritize various factors that matter to you. @voteknope school selection spreadsheet can be a very useful guide for this stuff

School Selection Spreadsheet

I definitely believe you won't go wrong with either option. It's just that Pitt offers some advantages that are more worth it than Hofstra. But worthiness is subjective and individualized. If being close to family and friends is very important to you, go to Hofstra. Support system is essential, and being burnt out and depressed in a school with awesome resources can be disastrous.

That was so well-said! It looks like the next few weeks are going to be filled with a lot of introspection/being honest with myself...also will take some time to look through the spreadsheet. Thank you so much Lawper!

 

[LePepe]

Pitt hands down.

Hofstra weirded me out.

 

[citykid92]

I would definitely vote Pitt. It's a really good school and while Hofstra is up-and-coming it definitely does not have the same reputation or recognition. I also think Pittsburgh is a much more interesting place to be than LI. Also, one of your negatives about Pitt is having to memorize basic science stuff... Bad news but that is pretty much an essential part of med school no matter where you go. The style of teaching may vary but at the end of the day you gotta know the material.

Having said all of that... if you think you won't be happy/able to succeed at Pitt, don't go there. But to me it just sounds like you think Hofstra would be safer, which IMO isn't a good reason to pick it unless you really are worried about being able to be happy/successful at Pitt.

 

[pastafanatic]

Pitt hands down.

Hofstra weirded me out.

Haha why did Hofstra weird you out??

Update: Hof is now officially more affordable...not a huge difference, but definitely not pennies. Really cutting it close with this decision!

 

[deev04]

For competitive specialties, or for the top-tier of just about every specialty, name of your medical school is going to matter. The opportunities and connections at top-tier medical schools (Pitt is obviously in this category) further imbalance the playing field and result in the drool worthy match lists you see coming out of the top tiers. Of course, just about every MD school in the country turns out some top matches and the match lists of most schools are all over the map reflecting both the idiosyncrasies of this process and the control of students (strong performance overcoming lower-tier school, location preferences, etc.).

I'd normally suggest that if you're considering a competitive specialty, maybe you should be thinking about the doors that would be opened by Pitt vs. Hof. Medical school is only 4/5 years and will be a very busy time, so being away from family, working hard and then having your choice of residencies back near families/friends might not be so bad. You might also fall in love with academic research and be glad you have more options open to you at the tippity top (altho these opportunities are never a given, even to those in schools at the top).

But, if you're the person who is considering Hof over Pitt now for personal reasons, putting prestige aside, I'm inclined to think you'll be the person making your residency decisions with personal/family decisions at the forefront. Match lists are hard to interpret because of the degree of personal preference that goes into rank lists and you sound exactly like the type person who cares less about getting into the absolute best Neurosurgery residency in the country, so much as the one closest to family and friends (that is also supportive of your career goals). People from lower ranked MD schools still match into all the most competitive specialties, they just don't necessarily match as often to the Harvard/Hopkins/UCSF residencies in these specialties (although there are exceptions). If Hof's location is good for you, going to Hof will not shut you out of any competitive specialty (might even give you a better shot at Hof/local residencies). Residencies dripping in prestige might be a bit more out of reach, but you seem less concerned with that (and top tier academic pay sucks).

Burnout is real, medicine is tough and valuing other things sounds anything but silly.

 

[pastafanatic]

@deev04, thank you for taking the time to write such a thoughtful response to my post - I really really appreciate it!