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Please help rank these programs

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DaBigDawg

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I want to do cardiology. With that in mind, I would appreciate thoughts about how these programs should be ranked:

Mayo
WashU
Emory
UAB
Cornell
UPenn
UW
BID
Michingan
University of Chicago
Northwestern
UCLA
UCSD

Thanks
 

CCMD2005

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If you want to do cards (this is solely based on the cards match list):
1. UPENN --> Greatest Reputation by far, along with research opportunities.
2. U. Chicago vs. Mayo (tough U.Chicago has a better IM rep, but Mayo matches extraordinarily well in cards(mostly b/c of the research residents do, allowing them to be competitive elsewhere, and the fact that Mayo Cards takes a majority in their #2 ranked cards program))
3/4. Cornell --> 1 problem, they don't take that many from their own IM program, I don't know why?
4/3. BID --> Good
5. UW --> v. busy program, not allowing as much time for research.
6/7. UCLA --> maybe most people want to stay in LA (who wouldn't) but not necessarily the strongest places if you don't stay at UCLA
7/6. Michigan
8. Wash U. (it seems like a lot of people stay)
9. Emory --> Great if you stay but doesn't give as good of options to go elsewhere
10. The rest I am unsure of...

The operating paradigm is that you want to maximize yourself to be competitive for cards fellowship: How do you do that:
1. Repuation of Residency
2. RESEARCH --> this is where some of the "big name" programs don't perform as well as I would expect b/c they don't allow enough time i.e. first year electives, to get meaningful work done before you apply early in second year.
3. Places that take alot of their own (because it gives you the highest probability that you will match there)
4. Also look at places that send people a lot of different places consistently, this speaks to #1.
 

DaBigDawg

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CCMD2005 said:
If you want to do cards (this is solely based on the cards match list):
1. UPENN --> Greatest Reputation by far, along with research opportunities.
2. U. Chicago vs. Mayo (tough U.Chicago has a better IM rep, but Mayo matches extraordinarily well in cards(mostly b/c of the research residents do, allowing them to be competitive elsewhere, and the fact that Mayo Cards takes a majority in their #2 ranked cards program))
3/4. Cornell --> 1 problem, they don't take that many from their own IM program, I don't know why?
4/3. BID --> Good
5. UW --> v. busy program, not allowing as much time for research.
6/7. UCLA --> maybe most people want to stay in LA (who wouldn't) but not necessarily the strongest places if you don't stay at UCLA
7/6. Michigan
8. Wash U. (it seems like a lot of people stay)
9. Emory --> Great if you stay but doesn't give as good of options to go elsewhere
10. The rest I am unsure of...

The operating paradigm is that you want to maximize yourself to be competitive for cards fellowship: How do you do that:
1. Repuation of Residency
2. RESEARCH --> this is where some of the "big name" programs don't perform as well as I would expect b/c they don't allow enough time i.e. first year electives, to get meaningful work done before you apply early in second year.
3. Places that take alot of their own (because it gives you the highest probability that you will match there)
4. Also look at places that send people a lot of different places consistently, this speaks to #1.

Unsure about Northwestern vs. U. Chicago
Mainly, I don't know how good Chicago's fellowship match is. Also, I don't know how good their Cardiology department is.

Any other thoughts about how to rank these programs?
 

bigtuna

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strictly for cards fellowship placement I would say:


UPenn > Wash U = UW = Michigan = cornell > Mayo = UAB = U of C > BID = Northwestern = UCLA = UCSD
 

ucla2usc

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CCMD2005 said:
If you want to do cards (this is solely based on the cards match list):
1. UPENN --> Greatest Reputation by far, along with research opportunities.
2. U. Chicago vs. Mayo (tough U.Chicago has a better IM rep, but Mayo matches extraordinarily well in cards(mostly b/c of the research residents do, allowing them to be competitive elsewhere, and the fact that Mayo Cards takes a majority in their #2 ranked cards program))
3/4. Cornell --> 1 problem, they don't take that many from their own IM program, I don't know why?
4/3. BID --> Good
5. UW --> v. busy program, not allowing as much time for research.
6/7. UCLA --> maybe most people want to stay in LA (who wouldn't) but not necessarily the strongest places if you don't stay at UCLA
7/6. Michigan
8. Wash U. (it seems like a lot of people stay)
9. Emory --> Great if you stay but doesn't give as good of options to go elsewhere
10. The rest I am unsure of...

The operating paradigm is that you want to maximize yourself to be competitive for cards fellowship: How do you do that:
1. Repuation of Residency
2. RESEARCH --> this is where some of the "big name" programs don't perform as well as I would expect b/c they don't allow enough time i.e. first year electives, to get meaningful work done before you apply early in second year.
3. Places that take alot of their own (because it gives you the highest probability that you will match there)
4. Also look at places that send people a lot of different places consistently, this speaks to #1.


1: UPENN: Top 5, great fellowship placement, great training, great research, it's just great...but philly kinda sucks (IMHO)
2. UW: 3 hospital system, great academic rep, great clinical training. Only problem is you get lost because the program is so big. Fellowship placement is really really good too.
3. UChicago vs UCLA vs. Mayo vs WashU vs Michigan vs Cornell
These are all relative equals in academic rep and fellowship placement. (Wash U has better rep for med school than IM, it's relatively an easy match for IM for many reasons described in other posts). I think this will come to personal preference based on your interview experiences and location preferences. You can't really rank these programs reliably.

As far as my personal prefernces: 1) UCLA 2) Cornell 3) UChicago 4) Mayo 5) Washu 6) Michigan

As far as UCSD, BIDMC, UAB, Northwestern, Emory: I believe this are small notch below the ones listed above in IM, but still overall outstanding programs, top 20ish. BIDMC wouldn't be so great if it weren't affiliated w/ Harvard. UCSD has fellowship placement that is relatively weak in Cards but it offers great IM clinical training. UAB's name isn't as good as the program actually is, though it is top 10 in Cards. Northwestern has a rep for being Cush, which can haunt you in academics. Emory has Grady (County) so great autonomy. They also have a great Cards program.
 

NOSTLMO

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ucla2usc said:
(Wash U has better rep for med school than IM, it's relatively an easy match for IM for many reasons described in other posts
Interesting opinion/observation...but I don't know how you came to this conclusion...do you mind sharing why you feel as if WashU is an "easy" IM match?
 

ucla2usc

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NOSTLMO said:
Interesting opinion/observation...but I don't know how you came to this conclusion...do you mind sharing why you feel as if WashU is an "easy" IM match?

i said "relatively easy," i guess that wasn't clear...what i mean is that it's a top 5 medical school, and not a top 5 IM program...and there are quite a few IM programs more competitive than Wash U, where there a few medical schools more competitive than Wash U. I don't mean to knock this obviously outstanding program...i was just making a point that the IM program is different than the medical school in the rankings and competitiveness.
 

NOSTLMO

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ucla2usc said:
i said "relatively easy," i guess that wasn't clear...what i mean is that it's a top 5 medical school, and not a top 5 IM program...and there are quite a few IM programs more competitive than Wash U, where there a few medical schools more competitive than Wash U. I don't mean to knock this obviously outstanding program...i was just making a point that the IM program is different than the medical school in the rankings and competitiveness.
I didn't come to the conclusion that you were knocking Wash U, and was just curious to hear your thoughts, that's all. You made a good point though. Out of further curiosity, do you consider the IM program top 10 or top 20? I know that in the grand scheme of things, it really plays a miniscule role, but nevertheless it's fun getting other's opinion's/perspectives...
 

DaBigDawg

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ucla2usc said:
1: UPENN: Top 5, great fellowship placement, great training, great research, it's just great...but philly kinda sucks (IMHO)
2. UW: 3 hospital system, great academic rep, great clinical training. Only problem is you get lost because the program is so big. Fellowship placement is really really good too.
3. UChicago vs UCLA vs. Mayo vs WashU vs Michigan vs Cornell
These are all relative equals in academic rep and fellowship placement. (Wash U has better rep for med school than IM, it's relatively an easy match for IM for many reasons described in other posts). I think this will come to personal preference based on your interview experiences and location preferences. You can't really rank these programs reliably.

As far as my personal prefernces: 1) UCLA 2) Cornell 3) UChicago 4) Mayo 5) Washu 6) Michigan

As far as UCSD, BIDMC, UAB, Northwestern, Emory: I believe this are small notch below the ones listed above in IM, but still overall outstanding programs, top 20ish. BIDMC wouldn't be so great if it weren't affiliated w/ Harvard. UCSD has fellowship placement that is relatively weak in Cards but it offers great IM clinical training. UAB's name isn't as good as the program actually is, though it is top 10 in Cards. Northwestern has a rep for being Cush, which can haunt you in academics. Emory has Grady (County) so great autonomy. They also have a great Cards program.

Anyone know about the strength of UW's cardiology program. It doesn't seem like they have a great program there... thought the residency program is top notch...

Same question with University of Chicago.... Good residency program but unsure about the strength of their cardiology department. Heard that they didn't have a chair.

Every says that UPenn's cardiology is great but what exactly is this based on?

Finally, BID... any thoughts about their cardiology department?

Any other thoughts about how to rank all these programs would be much appreciated.
 

Gharfunkle

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DaBigDawg said:
Finally, BID... any thoughts about their cardiology department?

From what I've heard, BID's Cards excellent, even if their IM program is not highly competitive. They've got some of the pioneers of electrophysiology, i.e. Dr. Josephson in the department. For electrophys... it is excellent, overall Cards, it's probably pretty good as well.
 

DaBigDawg

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Anyone else have any thoughts on how these programs should be ranked?

Thanks.
 
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