Ponce or DO?

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What have you been drinking anatomygrey?

I've told you I am as pro-DO as they come! I still say having the MD makes life easier in general but this situation definitely has some unique considerations that I feel supersede the whole MD/DO conversation.

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You are absolutely crazy if you think these scores are required for ACGME EM or gen surg... The fear mongering here is ludicrous. I've talked to DO residents in surgery, it is not close the level of competitiveness you are describing. Same goes with EM
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Osteopathic-2016.pdf

Take a look at this, 84% of people with a COMLEX of over 500 matched. Even 64% of people with a score BELOW 500 matched. What do you think all those who matched with those low COMLEX scores are toting around 248s? Lol, no. ACGME EM is decently competitive but average DO students still match with broad apps. Throwing around numbers like 248 and 250 for ACGME EM is simply utter BS.

Did you misread what I said about matching EM? I mentioned top/competitive EM programs, places that are typical not DO friendly as an institution and as a program. Since you haven't gone through the application process, interviewing, nor matching, I will give you a few things myself and many of my classmates have gathered and put together in documents for the classes below us in the hopes that people do not overvalue themselves and simply think DOs are considered equals to our MD counterparts. Read carefully now @AnatomyGrey12 ---- 9/10 people that contributed to our document cited that during interview season, the fact that they were DOs was brought up at least 2x. I can tell you my experience that involved a backhanded compliment where an faculty member said "Why are you in DO school? I don't know what medical schools are looking for these days, but your application is strong." ----- Every person that contributed was offered interviews at a percentage between 15-40% when every single applicant had applied to a wide range of low, mid, upper tier programs and a range between 50-100 programs each ---- Every applicant, except for 3 had Step 1 scores of 248 OR HIGHER and Step 2 scores of 250 OR HIGHER, the others were in the 220s and 240s ---- Only 3 of the 10 matched at their #1 program, while 2 went unmatched

Oh and guess who that lone person that never heard any mention about being a DO, yeah they were MD

When comparing this to other MD students, so the one that decided to help us recognize the DO bias and pass this information along. They had a Step 1 score in the 210s, Step 2 score in the 220s, a red flag during basic science years, but was offered interviews at 35% of programs applied, 20+ interviews, matched at their #1.

I understand you are "pro-DO" and being DO myself, I will also be "pro-DO", but I am also "pro-realistic" and will not allow fellow DOs to think they are on the same footing as their MD counterparts because that is naive.
 
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I understand you are "pro-DO" and being DO myself, I will also be "pro-DO", but I am also "pro-realistic" and will not allow fellow DOs to think they are on the same footing as their MD counterparts.

You will never hear me argue otherwise. But saying things like a 250 is necessary to match gen surg or EM is just fear mongering and not true. I agree if you want a really competitive EM program yeah you had better be a baller, but it's like that in any specialty. I agree 100% DOs are not viewed the same, that's obvious.
 
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You will never hear me argue otherwise. But saying things like a 250 is necessary to match gen surg or EM is just fear mongering and not true. I agree if you want a really competitive EM program yeah you had better be a baller, but it's like that in any specialty. I agree 100% DOs are not viewed the same, thays obvious.

I am not someone that should speak about GS because I never went through it, but I gave you information regarding classmates and previous graduates when I mentioned that earlier. The way you mention how easy it is to overcome being a DO and matching GS and now EM is just naive. I only hope you're at the top of your class, have a 240/250+ Step 1, and can quell your personality enough to seem normal during away rotations so you can also become one of the few applicants that match at a top program and be an outlier for us DOs. If not, you will see that bias firsthand during the application season, which is the only time I saw it.
 
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The way you mention how easy it is to overcome being a DO and matching GS and now EM is just naive

Just from this it's obvious you haven't even read my posts and are just here to spout nonsense. I have never, or will ever say this. Also nice attack on my personality simply because I disagree with you.
 
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The culture is very different between Hawaii and PR. Living in PR is essentially living in a Latin country. It's very different than the states. I still haven't given an opinion either way because it's up to OP if they can tolerate learning medicine in a totally different culture and language. I just think the people making it about MD and DO are completely neglecting the bigger picture. And I am generally someone who says USMD always, but the situation is different and not like comparing MSU and Central Michigan.

Except OP is fluent in the language. And while Hawaii is a state, Hawaiian culture is way different than the lower 48. Take it from someone who lived there. Living in Hawaii vs PR is not that dissimilar.
 
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Haha what a thread! Thoroughly enjoyed reading and thank you everyone for the input.

Think it'll be Marian (MUCOM not MSUCOM!), loved the school and their match was pretty solid. Plus, am vm looking forward to learning OMM - shocker amiright?!

Have the interview tomorrow, so we'll see what happens!
 
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Except OP is fluent in the language. And while Hawaii is a state, Hawaiian culture is way different than the lower 48. Take it from someone who lived there. Living in Hawaii vs PR is not that dissimilar.

Language and culture are different. It's like I said, I am fluent in Spanish and also have familiarity with the culture but I couldn't live in the PR for med school. Obviously it's completely up to OP decide what they want and think they can deal with, which is why I haven't tried to tell them where to go, rather just point out some potential stumbling blocks.

Edit: just saw OP posted, goodluck OP! Let us know how it goes.
 
SO what you're telling me is Ponce is 100% legit? If so I'll gladly admit i'm wrong. I'm well aware of PR being considered a state however, unlike Hawaii, PR is also its own country...?

Sorry, being from Hawaii I had to just say this -- Hawaii is the 50th US state.
 
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Haha what a thread! Thoroughly enjoyed reading and thank you everyone for the input.

Think it'll be Marian (MUCOM not MSUCOM!), loved the school and their match was pretty solid. Plus, am vm looking forward to learning OMM - shocker amiright?!

Have the interview tomorrow, so we'll see what happens!
You're going to regret saying this the second you realize you'll never use it, that there is no research validating it, and cranial f****** OMM
 
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What a thread lol. Coo
Very anecdotal but you will see similar things as this: My old PI went to PR for medical school, then UVA for IM, then the NIH for fellowship. Became a PI at UVA, UColorado, and now at a UC school. This pathway is near impossible choosing a DO school from the get go and it starts year one when you realize there is a lack of reesearch, mentoring, guidance, and strong clinical training that creates these barriers.


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But who cares? That's a singular path for one person and doesn't really contribute anything besides a story about a single PI. Nobody cares what this MD or that MD did to do what THEY were interested in because there are so many different paths to the same place.
 
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What a thread lol. Coo


But who cares? That's a singular path for one person and doesn't really contribute anything besides a story about a single PI. Nobody cares what this MD or that MD did to do what THEY were interested in because there are so many different paths to the same place.

But that's not true. Being a PI as a DO is extremely hard.

As I've said many many times. If you choose to go DO you've just made many paths quite difficult to obtain if able to obtain it at all. And we aren't just talking about surgical subspecialties here.

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But that's not true. Being a PI as a DO is extremely hard.

As I've said many many times. If you choose to go DO you've just made many paths quite difficult to obtain if able to obtain it at all. And we aren't just talking about surgical subspecialties here.

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Eh, I disagree and I think you overhype the limitations or don't see the minute amount of people it affects. Those "paths" you are vaugely referencing are pretty rare, even as MDs. I agree with the fact that if you already know before heading in to medical school that you want to do those extremely specific career paths within the field of medicine, it is probably not a good idea to go DO. But saying to every DO student that they are going to be crippled by being a DO is stupid, misguided, and induces anxiety in students for no substantive reason.

The overwhelming majority of us heading in to osteopathic medical school are not going to limited because we're DO's in terms of being a PI/PD because, well, were not interested in that to begin with. 99% of us just want to be clinicians. I think a lot of it has to do with self-selection in that 99% of DO students are not interested in academics or research dominating our careers. I also think a lot of those students that ARE interested in those two things are naturally very good candidates for allopathic schools (wicked gifted, should be teaching/doing great research).

In terms of specialties, it's a moot point but we've argued that in about 100 other threads between you, me, and @AnatomyGrey12 . I am not worried at all about matching when it comes time.
 
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But that's not true. Being a PI as a DO is extremely hard.

As I've said many many times. If you choose to go DO you've just made many paths quite difficult to obtain if able to obtain it at all. And we aren't just talking about surgical subspecialties here.

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For some of us it doesn't matter because we know 100% we don't care about those career paths, which is why I think @JB50 is saying what he is. Which makes this argument irrelevant if you feel that way. But I agree with you 100% if someone has even a little doubt about what they want to do the MD route keeps the most doors open. The DO route is great if you know what choosing it means. When you don't then you just get bitter when you see DO bias for the first time as a residency applicant and don't match at your dream competitive program and then you come to SDN to fear monger and make personal attacks when someone calls you out on the histrionics *cough cough
 
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You're going to regret saying this the second you realize you'll never use it, that there is no research validating it, and cranial f****** OMM

Eh, OMM is interesting if nothing else. I guarantee you a person that is good at OMM can palpate like a champ (lololololololol).

It's not useful 99.99% of the time I'm sure. DO's themselves in my interviews were sure to point that out (seriously).
 
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I agree with the fact that if you already know before heading in to medical school that you want to do those extremely specific career paths within the field of medicine, it is probably not a good idea to go DO. But saying to every DO student that they are going to be crippled by being a DO is stupid, misguided, and induces anxiety in students for no substantive reason.

In terms of specialties, it's a moot point but we've argued that in about 100 other threads between you, me, and @AnatomyGrey12 . I am not worried at all about matching when it comes time.

Am I in an alternate universe? Somehow you and I have become friends that share the exact same opinion.
 
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Am I in an alternate universe? Somehow you and I have become friends that share the exact same opinion.

Till the next thing we disagree on. Then we're gonna break up again, ok?

Lol oh SDN
 
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Why are we discussing long-term career opportunities like being a PI or matching into a competitive specialty? Why are we ignoring substantial differences in 4 years of medical school? Why are we ignoring that DO students have to study for COMLEX and DO shelves on top of studying for USMLE and MD shelves to be a strong residency applicant that opens most doors? Whereas MD students don't have to worry about COMLEX/DO shelves to apply to former AOA residencies?

Why are we ignoring required OMM, problems with clinical rotations, and significant differences in clinical education which are all simply due to COCA having less stringent rules and being more relaxed on matters that LCME will not tolerate?

These factors matter very much and should never be ignored in the decision. Ponce is in Puerto Rico and it requires some initial adjustment. But OP knows Spanish well and Ponce gave them an interview because they felt OP would be a good candidate for their class. If OP gets accepted, they should go to Ponce because Ponce is a US MD school that effectively avoids nearly all the DO school problems like COMLEX, DO shelves, clinical rotation problems etc.
 
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Why are we discussing long-term career opportunities like being a PI or matching into a competitive specialty? Why are we ignoring substantial differences in 4 years of medical school? Why are we ignoring that DO students have to study for COMLEX and DO shelves on top of studying for USMLE and MD shelves to be a strong residency applicant that opens most doors? Whereas MD students don't have to worry about COMLEX/DO shelves to apply to former AOA residencies?

Why are we ignoring required OMM, problems with clinical rotations, and significant differences in clinical education which are all simply due to COCA having less stringent rules and being more relaxed on matters that LCME will not tolerate?

These factors matter very much and should never be ignored in the decision. Ponce is in Puerto Rico and it requires some initial adjustment. But OP knows Spanish well and Ponce gave them an interview because they felt OP would be a good candidate for their class. If OP gets accepted, they should go to Ponce because Ponce is a US MD school that effectively avoid nearly all the DO school problems like COMLEX, DO shelves, clinical rotation problems etc.

We're not ignoring those. You've posted them like 5 times in this thread.
 
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We're not ignoring those. You've posted them like 5 times in this thread.

I know and yet the discussion almost always focuses on matching and being a researcher. They matter but so does the actual differences in medical school. And yet I don't see any discussion on the matter or attempts to address those questions I raised.
 
I know and yet the discussion almost always focuses on matching and being a researcher. They matter but so does the actual differences in medical school. And yet I don't see any discussion on the matter or attempts to address those questions I raised.
We did already. You're downplaying a move to Puerto Rico, were downplaying taking an extra board exam, which most DOs study a week for after studying for the usmle. Clinical rotations are school dependent. MSUCOM has fantastic clinical rotations, other schools idk about.
 
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We did already. You're downplaying a move to Puerto Rico, were downplaying taking an extra board exam, which most DOs study a week for after studying for the usmle.

A move to Puerto Rico isn't a massive culture shock that's implied here. Ponce adcoms care about having a class that fulfills their mission so they wouldn't be giving interviews to random applicants who applied there for no reason. Also i heard that PR school interviews are mostly done in Spanish, so applicants with little or no knowledge of Spanish will be rejected.

I'm assuming OP gets accepted to Ponce. And if that happens, the impact of culture shock is dramatically reduced. Living in PR also isn't bad as seen from several members who actually lived there for a while.

However, an extra exam can't be downplayed. COMLEX is annoying and a waste of time that counts for little in the long run. There are apparently a lot of inefficiencies in DO schools that are avoided simply by going MD. Why spend the time and energy studying for DO exams when they can be used for improving clinical skills and pursuing opportunities? It's not worth it.
 
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Language and culture are different. It's like I said, I am fluent in Spanish and also have familiarity with the culture but I couldn't live in the PR for med school. Obviously it's completely up to OP decide what they want and think they can deal with, which is why I haven't tried to tell them where to go, rather just point out some potential stumbling blocks.

Edit: just saw OP posted, goodluck OP! Let us know how it goes.

That's why I asked how many people have actually been there. I don't get not being able to live there for med school. Not wanting to? Okay. But not being able to? It's not PI. But yes, it is a personal decision on whether you could live there (I wouldn't want to live in Chicago for 4 years, but if it was between an MD in Chitown and MSUCOM, I'd be looking at homes outside of Chicago).

which state haven't you lived there or visited

Lol. I've lived in a bunch of states. I've been to or lived in every state on the east coast except for Maine (and visited PR a few times), most of the midwestern states, and a lot of the states out West. I also lived in Hawaii, but I've never been to Alaska sadly. Texas has been my favorite state to live in so far.

Edit: good luck on your interview @Medic741
 
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Why are we ignoring that DO students have to study for COMLEX and DO shelves on top of studying for USMLE and MD shelves to be a strong residency applicant that opens most doors? Whereas MD students don't have to worry about COMLEX/DO shelves to apply to former AOA residencies?

Because the COMLEX thing is annoying but it is a minor issue. Studying for USMLE = studying for COMLEX except cramming some OMM in between exams according to people who have already done it. I have no idea where you get the whole shelves thing. They are essentially the same tests with a little OMM in them. I have never heard of DO students taking the MD shelves.

significant differences in clinical education which are all simply due to COCA having less stringent rules and being more relaxed on matters that LCME will not tolerate?

The requirements are the exact same for clinical education.
However, an extra exam can't be downplayed. COMLEX is annoying and a waste of time that counts for little in the long run

Again you are overplaying this one.

There are apparently a lot of inefficiencies in DO schools that are avoided simply by going MD.

Yes, but there can also be a lot of headaches living in what amounts to a latin country for four freaking years. It is up to OP to decide which headaches they would rather deal with and just basing it off MD vs. DO is asinine. I've spent significant time around Latin culture and it is different, there are things to consider that you are completely ignoring. If OP is completely fine with all of that then yes they should go to Ponce, but you make too many assumptions.
 
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Because the COMLEX thing is annoying but it is a minor issue. Studying for USMLE = studying for COMLEX except cramming some OMM in between exams according to people who have already done it. I have no idea where you get the whole shelves thing. They are essentially the same tests with a little OMM in them. I have never heard of DO students taking the MD shelves.



The requirements are the exact same for clinical education.


Again you are overplaying this one.



Yes, but there can also be a lot of headaches living in what amounts to a latin country for four freaking years. It is up to OP to decide which headaches they would rather deal with and just basing it off MD vs. DO is asinine. I've spent significant time around Latin culture and it is different, there are things to consider that you are completely ignoring. If OP is completely fine with all of that then yes they should go to Ponce, but you make too many assumptions.

We take MD shelf exams (NBMEs) except for the FM shelf. There are specific AOA residencies that want your scores from DO shelves so in certain scenarios you have to take and pay for both. Additionally, our school did not expand our budget to pay for the USMLE and only provided money for comlex. So we can take the USMLE but now are strapped for cash to get pertinent resources and the school won't do a damn thing for you.

Just FYI, the clinical rotation standards as well as other standards related to accreditation were just adjusted to be almost exactly the same as those of lcme because the department of education was concerned about the standards and forced them to revamp.


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We take MD shelf exams (NBMEs) except for the FM shelf. There are specific AOA residencies that want your scores from DO shelves so in certain scenarios you have to take and pay for both. Additionally, our school did not expand our budget to pay for the USMLE and only provided money for comlex. So we can take the USMLE but now are strapped for cash to get pertinent resources and the school won't do a damn thing for you.

Just FYI, the clinical rotation standards as well as other standards related to accreditation were just adjusted to be almost exactly the same as those of lcme because the department of education was concerned about the standards and forced them to revamp.


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This was super informative. Thanks! No sarcasm.
 
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We did already. You're downplaying a move to Puerto Rico, were downplaying taking an extra board exam, which most DOs study a week for after studying for the usmle. Clinical rotations are school dependent. MSUCOM has fantastic clinical rotations, other schools idk about.

MSUCOM rotations once overlapped with KCUMB so other than aways I spent 100% of my rotations with MSUCOM students until a Caribbean school bought out our rotation spots and a few of MSUCOM's. There is still quite a lot of variability. Many of the MSUCOM locations you could easily go through all of OBGYN and never deliver a baby (not because you're a male, but because they just allow you to be outpatient), surgical rotations where you only participate in ambulatory side of things, and psych rotations where the preceptor is not physically available and requires you to be their secretary instead of seeing patients.

Because the COMLEX thing is annoying but it is a minor issue. Studying for USMLE = studying for COMLEX except cramming some OMM in between exams according to people who have already done it. I have no idea where you get the whole shelves thing. They are essentially the same tests with a little OMM in them. I have never heard of DO students taking the MD shelves.


The requirements are the exact same for clinical education.


Again you are overplaying this one.


Yes, but there can also be a lot of headaches living in what amounts to a latin country for four freaking years. It is up to OP to decide which headaches they would rather deal with and just basing it off MD vs. DO is asinine. I've spent significant time around Latin culture and it is different, there are things to consider that you are completely ignoring. If OP is completely fine with all of that then yes they should go to Ponce, but you make too many assumptions.

DO shelves are very different from MD shelves. The same terrible, misspelled, and nonvalidated medical questions from the COMLEX are the same ones you will see on DO shelves. It's laughable.

Another set of boards that require approx an extra $4000 worth of tests, travel, and study material is not exactly something you should minimize. Not to mention recerts later on in life. OMM is a pain when you realize it's worthless and will not be a part of 99% of people's practices and you forget it all or choose not to learn it in the first place because you got into DO school not by choice.
 
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We take MD shelf exams (NBMEs) except for the FM shelf. There are specific AOA residencies that want your scores from DO shelves so in certain scenarios you have to take and pay for both. Additionally, our school did not expand our budget to pay for the USMLE and only provided money for comlex. So we can take the USMLE but now are strapped for cash to get pertinent resources and the school won't do a damn thing for you.

Just FYI, the clinical rotation standards as well as other standards related to accreditation were just adjusted to be almost exactly the same as those of lcme because the department of education was concerned about the standards and forced them to revamp.


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MSUCOM rotations once overlapped with KCUMB so other than aways I spent 100% of my rotations with MSUCOM students until a Caribbean school bought out our rotation spots and a few of MSUCOM's. There is still quite a lot of variability. Many of the MSUCOM locations you could easily go through all of OBGYN and never deliver a baby (not because you're a male, but because they just allow you to be outpatient), surgical rotations where you only participate in ambulatory side of things, and psych rotations where the preceptor is not physically available and requires you to be their secretary instead of seeing patients.



DO shelves are very different from MD shelves. The same terrible, misspelled, and nonvalidated medical questions from the COMLEX are the same ones you will see on DO shelves. It's laughable.

Another set of boards that require approx an extra $4000 worth of tests, travel, and study material is not exactly something you should minimize. Not to mention recerts later on in life. OMM is a pain when you realize it's worthless and will not be a part of 99% of people's practices and you forget it all or choose not to learn it in the first place because you got into DO school not by choice.

Thanks for this information! I actually didn't know about the shelf differences and found out only by reading the medical students forums so wasn't sure whether they were right. But there's a lot of stuff here I don't know about so it's a good learning opportunity.
 
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Just FYI, the clinical rotation standards as well as other standards related to accreditation were just adjusted to be almost exactly the same as those of lcme because the department of education was concerned about the standards and forced them to revamp.

Yes, but for anyone starting school now the requirements are the same. They can't be used as a reason anymore.
 
Yes, but for anyone starting school now the requirements are the same. They can't be used as a reason anymore.

DO schools are gunna skate by on a lot of the clinical standards especially the "train with resident for at least one rotation" by just providing that, one rotation. That very much differs from a large number of MD schools which provide access to inpatient, resident led training, in multiple specialties and subspecialties with strong didactic training and education for the students.

DO students get to work with a preceptor who can literally make it so that you don't actually see patients...and the reason I hear from students is "more time for me to study for my shelf" to excuse themselves from having a very poor rotation while the school charges you almost 2-3x the tuition cost of the neighboring MD school. Would something like this happen at an MD school? Sure. But does it happen at the rate and extent of DO schools? Most def not.


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DO schools are gunna skate by on a lot of the clinical standards especially the "train with resident for at least one rotation" by just providing that, one rotation. That very much differs from a large number of MD schools which provide access to inpatient, resident led training, in multiple specialties and subspecialties with strong didactic training and education for the students.

Yes, obviously. The comment I made was a poster talking about COCA's lax standards on clinical education compared to LCME. That can no longer be used as a reason. It's fair to mention more preceptorships as a con, and it is, but you can no longer blame it in COCA.
 
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Yes, obviously. The comment I made was a poster talking about COCA's lax standards on clinical education compared to LCME. That can no longer be used as a reason. It's fair to mention more preceptorships as a con, and it is, but you can no longer blame it in COCA.

I see what you're saying, standards are the same so I agree with that. I think you can still look to COCA for the issues going on because the enforcement is much different. When was the last time you have heard of a DO school being put on probation?? LCME just put two medical schools on probation this year (McGill and St. Louis University).
 
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Yes, but for anyone starting school now the requirements are the same. They can't be used as a reason anymore.
DO schools are gunna skate by on a lot of the clinical standards especially the "train with resident for at least one rotation" by just providing that, one rotation. That very much differs from a large number of MD schools which provide access to inpatient, resident led training, in multiple specialties and subspecialties with strong didactic training and education for the students.

DO students get to work with a preceptor who can literally make it so that you don't actually see patients...and the reason I hear from students is "more time for me to study for my shelf" to excuse themselves from having a very poor rotation while the school charges you almost 2-3x the tuition cost of the neighboring MD school. Would something like this happen at an MD school? Sure. But does it happen at the rate and extent of DO schools? Most def not.


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Yes, obviously. The comment I made was a poster talking about COCA's lax standards on clinical education compared to LCME. That can no longer be used as a reason. It's fair to mention more preceptorships as a con, and it is, but you can no longer blame it in COCA.

wait to clarify, COCA standards on clinical education are similar to LCME's? as in COCA now has strict standards on clinical education and quality?
 
wait to clarify, COCA standards on clinical education are similar to LCME's?

The proposed changes to the COCA standard were almost word for word how LCME described their standards for clinical training (with core standards and the like). These changes are still in the making when they meet this April to get the new standards approved.
 
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while the school charges you almost 2-3x the tuition cost of the neighboring MD school.
First, what MD schools have such low tuition that it is 2-3x less than the neighboring DO school outside of IS people in select states? This isn't a comparison of Midwestern and UofA, it's a school in essentially a Latin country and a DO school in the continental 48. I still haven't given an opinion what OP should do because there are pros and cons on each side that only they can weigh. Everyone else here is trying to make OPs decision for them based on a more trivial consideration.

Applicants should choose a stateside MD school over a DO school every time, THIS situation is more nuanced and requires further considerations. That is the only thing I am arguing.

I see what you're saying, standards are the same so I agree with that. I think you can still look to COCA for the issues going on because the enforcement is much different. When was the last time you have heard of a DO school being put on probation?? LCME just put two medical schools on probation this year (McGill and St. Louis University).

Yes but this is a separate issue for THIS situation presented. I agree COCA is essentially garbage for allowing such rapid expansion of schools that can barely (if that even) meet the baseline of requirements.

wait to clarify, COCA standards on clinical education are similar to LCME's? as in COCA now has strict standards on clinical education and quality?

Yes. You might be suprised at the minimum requirements presented by the LCME.
 
The proposed changes to the COCA standard were almost word for word how LCME described their standards for clinical training (with core standards and the like). These changes are still in the making when they meet this April to get the new standards approved.
Yes. You might be suprised at the minimum requirements presented by the LCME.
I see what you're saying, standards are the same so I agree with that. I think you can still look to COCA for the issues going on because the enforcement is much different. When was the last time you have heard of a DO school being put on probation?? LCME just put two medical schools on probation this year (McGill and St. Louis University).

so COCA and LCME standards are similar, and the differences are due to COCA not enforcing them stringently and sending DO schools to probation for violating the standards?
 
so COCA and LCME standards are similar, and the differences are due to COCA not enforcing them stringently and sending DO schools to probation for violating the standards?

Well, not all the standards are similar between the two (see Research and Faculty standards in the way of appointments and actual scholarly activity expectations). The enforcement is much different, the composition of who is represented within the LCME (members of AMA, AAMC, and medical students) and COCA (only high level faculty, AOA leaders, and two lawyers and a few admin) which is fine. I get that all of these discrepancies between the two are because of really important factors like hospital affiliations, state funding, and the lot and to make them "equal" is MUCH easier said than done and would take decades to achieve. If the LCME were to take over COCA only a few DO schools would survive.
 
accteped to a DO program that I love, want to do EM, just got II to Ponce, but tight on cash... would an LCME MD from Ponce be a leg up professionally? Any thoughts welcome! Trying to figure out if I should go. Not committed to either MD or DO, just want to be a doc and have a strong post-grad career
mexican_spongebob_by_tryanc.jpg

MD!
 
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Applicants should choose a stateside MD school over a DO school every time, THIS situation is more nuanced and requires further considerations. That is the only thing I am arguing.

I understand that. Beyond not liking the living situation in Latin America, what other areas need consideration?
 
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Time out!!!!

The school is Marian, not MSUCOM which has been mentioned many of times in this thread. Let's talk about specific schools to actually help out the OP

Okay, play ball!
 
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To OP:

Choose a program that fits your interests. Choose a school that provides an environment where you will flourish as a medical student. It's not about the letters behind your name, nor is it about where you earned your stripes. It's about who you are and your work ethic. If you are the kind of person that is confident and has the knowledge to back it up, everything will work out. You make your own luck.
 
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Things to consider between Marian and Ponce: clinical training, preclinical education (more fit then being an end-all/be-all), research opportunities, mentorship opportunities, lifestyle.

I know many PD's in many specialties. Not one of them considers Ponce a Caribbean school.
This speaks volume. When you are a 4th year at Ponce and are applying for residency, you are considered an internal applicant and NOT an independent applicant that all IMG/FMG/reapplicant/DO applicants are pooled into.
 
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I understand that. Beyond not liking the living situation in Latin America, what other areas need consideration?

First, I think you are marginalizing the fact of living in Latin America. Second. Yes I know that OP fluently speaks Spanish. There still should be a consideration of actually learning medicine in Spanish. Speaking a language and being able to fully synthesize a large amount of information in that language are different. This is potentially a roadblock to OP being able to perform their best, especially if all their higher learning has been done in an English. This is all stuff that many have just assumed and made it about MD vs. DO. OP is the only one who knows the real answer to these questions and hasn't said anything either way with regards to the considerations above so we shouldn't assume. I do agree that if OP is sure on the above points then they should choose Ponce because a USMD affords greater flexibility.
 
First, I think you are marginalizing the fact of living in Latin America. Second. Yes I know that OP fluently speaks Spanish. There still should be a consideration of actually learning medicine in Spanish. Speaking a language and being able to fully synthesize a large amount of information in that language are different. This is potentially a roadblock to OP being able to perform their best, especially if all their higher learning has been done in an English. This is all stuff that many have just assumed and made it about MD vs. DO. OP is the only one who knows the real answer to these questions and hasn't said anything either way with regards to the considerations above so we shouldn't assume. I do agree that if OP is sure on the above points then they should choose Ponce because a USMD affords greater flexibility.

That's a bit of a leap to assume I am marginalizing living in PR since I never gave an opinion on it besides saying it should be a factor to consider.


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(Lol at people thinking this was MSU or Ponce. I'd have picked MSU (top DO, DO-friendly state), but then again, I'm from MI and can't speak Spanish.)

OP: See it how it goes, and maybe you'll end up loving it! Marian is a newer DO school, therefore Ponce will definitely open more doors as a USMD. However, med school is demanding, and you don't want to add adjusting to island life as another obstacle, unless of course you think you'll have no problem living in PR.
 
(Lol at people thinking this was MSU or Ponce. I'd have picked MSU (top DO, DO-friendly state), but then again, I'm from MI and can't speak Spanish.)

OP: See it how it goes, and maybe you'll end up loving it! Marian is a newer DO school, therefore Ponce will definitely open more doors as a USMD. However, med school is demanding, and you don't want to add adjusting to island life as another obstacle, unless of course you think you'll have no problem living in PR.

Yeah I don't know why I thought it was MSU. I didn't give an opinion on one school or another, but I still would consider Ponce.
 
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Time out!!!!

The school is Marian, not MSUCOM which has been mentioned many of times in this thread. Let's talk about specific schools to actually help out the OP

Okay, play ball!
Haha thanks Frogger! +1,000! Keep it rolling guys :help:
 
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Haha thanks Frogger! +1,000! Keep it rolling guys :help:

So how comfortable are you in your Spanish?? Would you be able to learn if someone was lecturing in Spanish? Did you enjoy living in a Spanish speaking country before??

These are the main questions that need to be answered. If the answer is Yes x 3, then I would seriously consider attending Ponce
 
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