Ponce or DO?

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My point is that the bias would quickly disappear if they offered the MD degree. But not (exactly) because of the LCME accreditation, but because of the letters MD.

There are around 5-10 or so DO schools that (effectively) meet LCME requirements now. You mention them, these are the ones that would "become MD." But if they already meet the requirements, and PDs know exactly how good they are... why continue to discriminate against them now?

Which schools do you think you currently meet LCGME requirements?

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Which schools do you think you currently meet LCGME requirements?

Currently? Probably just the state schools and a handful of others like KCU, PCOM, and KCOM. There are more that could meet them if given a transition period, and probably most except some of the newer and/or more rural ones could meet them if given enough time.
 
Which schools do you think you currently meet LCGME requirements?

KCU wouldn't pass. KCU joplin probably would because they have stronger clinical rotations. OUHCOM, TCOM, CCOM, OSU, Rowan, MSU, PCOM and maybe Nova and ATSU-SOMA would also be fine.

Don't think the rest would survived.


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KCU wouldn't pass. KCU joplin probably would because they have stronger clinical rotations. OUHCOM, TCOM, CCOM, OSU, Rowan, MSU, PCOM and maybe Nova and ATSU-SOMA would also be fine.

Don't think the rest would survived.


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Lol why would KCU Joplin pass and not the main campus? Joplin hasn't even had a class yet.

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Currently? Probably just the state schools and a handful of others like KCU, PCOM, and KCOM. There are more that could meet them if given a transition period, and probably most except some of the newer and/or more rural ones could meet them if given enough time.
KCU wouldn't pass. KCU joplin probably would because they have stronger clinical rotations. OUHCOM, TCOM, CCOM, OSU, Rowan, MSU, PCOM and maybe Nova and ATSU-SOMA would also be fine.

Don't think the rest would survived.


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While that's sad to hear, this explains how it's a lot easier to set up a DO school than to set up an MD school.
 
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Lol why would KCU Joplin pass and not the main campus? Joplin hasn't even had a class yet.

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Because KCUs KC clinical training is substandard. They have no real hospital affiliates in Kansas city and literally no one in the realm of clinical departments beyond IM and FM (our surgery department consists of one adjunct member who is a professor at KU Med) which would be a huge red flag. A large majority of KCUs OPTI sponsored residencies are in Joplin as well.

Now KCU just partnered with HCA in Kansas City and that's great and all but it's composed of minute clinics and may. 4-5 smaller hospitals and 1 larger one (research medical center). Of those, there's only one residency program in FM and plans to build residencies takes time (as history has shown with Marian touting huge residencies expansion with still no significant results).




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KCU wouldn't pass. KCU joplin probably would because they have stronger clinical rotations. OUHCOM, TCOM, CCOM, OSU, Rowan, MSU, PCOM and maybe Nova and ATSU-SOMA would also be fine.

Don't think the rest would survived.


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I'm curious as to why you think SOMA and not KCOM? I also wonder if more schools could if they drastically cut down class sizes. It's hard to have good resources per student when the resources you actually have are spread so thin.
 
I'm curious as to why you think SOMA and not KCOM? I also wonder if more schools could if they drastically cut down class sizes. It's hard to have good resources per student when the resources you actually have are spread so thin.

I don't know much about KCOM. Do they have good clinical rotations?

Yeah I think if all of these schools cut their class sizes down to 100 or less they would get by but because they are private schools they rely on the higher tuition. Sadly our school doesn't have a lot of alumni support either so endowments are not that great :/


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Because KCUs KC clinical training is substandard. They have no real hospital affiliates in Kansas city and literally no one in the realm of clinical departments beyond IM and FM (our surgery department consists of one adjunct member who is a professor at KU Med) which would be a huge red flag. A large majority of KCUs OPTI sponsored residencies are in Joplin as well.

Now KCU just partnered with HCA in Kansas City and that's great and all but it's composed of minute clinics and may. 4-5 smaller hospitals and 1 larger one (research medical center). Of those, there's only one residency program in FM and plans to build residencies takes time (as history has shown with Marian touting huge residencies expansion with still no significant results).




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What about their other rotations? I know they have a lot of different locations that you can do your rotations at and most stay there for both 3rd and 4th year.

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What about their other rotations? I know they have a lot of different locations that you can do your rotations at and most stay there for both 3rd and 4th year.

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That's the issue. How does sending more than half of each class to an outside state serving the mission of serving the communities of KC? They are hitching a ride on other DO schools (and many...many DO schools do this).

Only 100 stayed in KC for our class of 270.


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Sadly our school doesn't have a lot of alumni support either so endowments are not that great :/

I would have imagined that alumni would have been more generous given that out here in the west coast they are making a killing--quite a few sizable medical groups are owned or co-owned by KCU alumni.
 
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I would have imagined that alumni would have been more generous given that out here in the west coast they are making a killing--quite a few sizable medical groups are owned or co-owned by KCU alumni.

Oh really? im only aware of one plastic surgeon in Coronado thats a kcu alum haha.


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Only 100 stayed in KC for our class of 270.

Oh really? im only aware of one plastic surgeon in Coronado thats a kcu alum haha.


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There's definitely a diaspora of KCU in SoCal! I was thinking more in the realm of occupational medicine medical groups but I've heard of the guy I think you're referring to-- Dr. Guttikonda right? Impressive guy!!

In respect to the 100 out 270 staying local in the graduating class I think that's a far better statistic than many schools(including some of the ones i'm considering)
 
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There's definitely a diaspora of KCU in SoCal! I was thinking more in the realm of occupational medicine medical groups but I've heard of the guy I think you're referring to-- Dr. Guttikonda right? Impressive guy!!

In respect to the 100 out 270 staying local in the graduating class I think that's a far better statistic than many schools(including some of the ones i'm considering)

Never heard but I'll check him out! It's honestly exciting to hear that haha.

Yeah I mean they are making progress so can't give em to much slack for it!


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That's the issue. How does sending more than half of each class to an outside state serving the mission of serving the communities of KC? They are hitching a ride on other DO schools (and many...many DO schools do this).

Only 100 stayed in KC for our class of 270.


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Well I am more asking about why or why not the rotations would be of quality. Not necessarily how they relate to the school's mission.

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Well I am more asking about why or why not the rotations would be of quality. Not necessarily how they relate to the school's mission.

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Because it's strictly preceptor based in KC with extremely variable experiences and opportunities between preceptors.m within the same core clerkships. The high variability is the issue.


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I don't know much about KCOM. Do they have good clinical rotations?

I dunno, they do have their own little hospital though. I think they share lots of sites with KCU. I was just curious because I know that SOMA students have a large majority of preceptorships. I've even talked to students at my hospital from there doing electives who said they hadn't even been in a hospital with residents for all of 3rd year. I was just wondering if you had additional knowledge I didn't.

Honestly all of this is getting to the point that I hope that the LCME steps in.
 
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That's the issue. How does sending more than half of each class to an outside state serving the mission of serving the communities of KC? They are hitching a ride on other DO schools (and many...many DO schools do this).

Only 100 stayed in KC for our class of 270.

Same state or bordering regional area makes sense. Just feels odd/wrong that somebody who attends a medical school in Kansas City will do their rotations in Michigan or Florida.


Honestly all of this is getting to the point that I hope that the LCME steps in.

At the very least, they should give LCME-accredited status to the schools that currently meet them. That'll give incentive to the other schools to step up.
 
Same state or bordering regional area makes sense. Just feels odd/wrong that somebody who attends a medical school in Kansas City will do their rotations in Michigan or Florida.




At the very least, they should give LCME-accredited status to the schools that currently meet them. That'll give incentive to the other schools to step up.
That only works if the DO schools want LCME accreditation, and for now, due to historical MD/DO differences, I can't imagine any DO schools seeking out LCME accredidation.
 
So how comfortable are you in your Spanish?? Would you be able to learn if someone was lecturing in Spanish? Did you enjoy living in a Spanish speaking country before??

These are the main questions that need to be answered. If the answer is Yes x 3, then I would seriously consider attending Ponce

The teaching at PR schools is in Spanish and English, but all written material is in English. All written work, power points, exams, even sillabi are in English. The names of diseases - English. The medical charts - English. Half the basic science faculty - English. It is the language of science and the most read medical journals so the training in English is emphasized.

Communication with patients and family is Spanish, naturally. And the world and culture is latin. But training in Puerto Rico is no more depressing than training in Louisiana.
 
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Same state or bordering regional area makes sense. Just feels odd/wrong that somebody who attends a medical school in Kansas City will do their rotations in Michigan or Florida.




At the very least, they should give LCME-accredited status to the schools that currently meet them. That'll give incentive to the other schools to step up.
Why is that odd? If someone goes to KCU who is from Florida or Michigan it would make sense that they might want to do rotations in their home state.

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Why is that odd? If someone goes to KCU who is from Florida or Michigan it would make sense that they might want to do rotations in their home state.

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Very few MD schools do something like this because 1) their class size isn't large enough to have to kick people to a different state 2) they actually want/need to fulfill their mission of serving the area since most are state funded.

It may sound nice to go back home but you lost touch with your home instruction, any mentors you had are now only in contact by email. Any research you were doing now on stand still. Also there's no guarantee that if you are from FL that you get to rotate there. It's a lottery and you may end up in a tiny town in the middle of MO.

And finally, it is a tremendous cost to have to move somewhere else.


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Very few MD schools do something like this because 1) their class size isn't large enough to have to kick people to a different state 2) they actually want/need to fulfill their mission of serving the area since most are state funded.

It may sound nice to go back home but you lost touch with your home instruction, any mentors you had are now only in contact by email. Any research you were doing now on stand still. Also there's no guarantee that if you are from FL that you get to rotate there. It's a lottery and you may end up in a tiny town in the middle of MO.

And finally, it is a tremendous cost to have to move somewhere else.


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Some community based MD schools do have rotations in different cities. MSUCHM has like 5 different cities across Michigan where you can do you clinicals. The quality of rotations for the most part is good.
 
That only works if the DO schools want LCME accreditation, and for now, due to historical MD/DO differences, I can't imagine any DO schools seeking out LCME accredidation.

Perhaps, but I only see an additional LCME accreditation bolstering the reputation of a school and increasing the confidence of PDs to take applicants from these programs. Maybe an extra incentive can be that applicants from these schools are not filtered out alongside all other DO grads when it comes to applying to residencies.

Some community based MD schools do have rotations in different cities. MSUCHM has like 5 different cities across Michigan where you can do you clinicals. The quality of rotations for the most part is good.

Yeah, but all of those sites are in Michigan.
 
Perhaps, but I only see an additional LCME accreditation bolstering the reputation of a school and increasing the confidence of PDs to take applicants from these programs. Maybe an extra incentive can be that applicants from these schools are not filtered out alongside all other DO grads when it comes to applying to residencies.



Yeah, but all of those sites are in Michigan.

I heard a rumor that a few DO schools were actually offered for the LCME to come in and give them accreditation after a visit, apparently they turned them down.
 
The teaching at PR schools is in Spanish and English, but all written material is in English. All written work, power points, exams, even sillabi are in English. The names of diseases - English. The medical charts - English. Half the basic science faculty - English. It is the language of science and the most read medical journals so the training in English is emphasized.

Communication with patients and family is Spanish, naturally. And the world and culture is latin. But training in Puerto Rico is no more depressing than training in Louisiana.

Nice! This basically further weakens the opposing claims regarding the massive culture shock and difficulty in living in PR for 4 years. I don't think PR school adcoms are stupid to interview and accept someone who doesn't meet their school mission and cannot adjust to the culture to address community needs.
 
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Alright, so did a Skype interview so hard to get a feel for the school, but really enjoyed it. Long term goals are doing disaster management, and applying HPSP with hopes of going abroad and working in foreign places.

Actually leaning towards Ponce if I get an offer (fingers crossed!), think it would really help with international MSF type work. Ugh, I just want this decision made already!
 
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Alright, so did a Skype interview so hard to get a feel for the school, but really enjoyed it. Long term goals are doing disaster management, and applying HPSP with hopes of going abroad and working in foreign places.

Actually leaning towards Ponce if I get an offer (fingers crossed!), think it would really help with international MSF type work. Ugh, I just want this decision made already!


Awesome. Which branch for HPSP?
 
Awesome. Which branch for HPSP?

Army! No GMO tours and more of a certainty that you'll get to practice in your specialty without risking going out at as GP for a unit, which seemed to be a 'thing' for Navy/AF. Spending residency in military, and 4 years as an attending is worth it for me when I look at what I want to be doing in life!
 
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Ayyye just got accepted to Ponce! Damn.

MD or DO question is real now that I've got it in hand.

And completely fluent in Spanish. 7 months living/studying in Spain, 8 mo in Patagonia & Latin America.


Can anyone speak to the quality of facilities?

Anyone out there familiar with working with PR students?

Insight into the lifestyle on island?
 
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Ayyye just got accepted to Ponce! Damn.

MD or DO question is real now that I've got it in hand.
Can anyone speak to the quality of facilities?

Feliz cumpleaños, muchacho! (I don't know how to say "congratulations" in Spanish, so I'm wishing you a happy birthday instead.)

In all seriousness, you would be making a grave mistake by not choosing Ponce. It's time to change your signature to "Accepted MD student."
 
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Feliz cumpleaños, muchacho! (I don't know how to say "congratulations" in Spanish, so I'm wishing you a happy birthday instead.)

In all seriousness, you would be making a grave mistake by not choosing Ponce. It's time to change your signature to "Accepted MD student."

I think you're right. I feel like I just gotta take this one... right?!?

Plus -- could ship my motorcycle over there & have a baller time on those rare weekends ;) cause medical students have SO much free time haha
 
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And completely fluent in Spanish. 7 months living/studying in Spain, 8 mo in Patagonia & Latin America.

Because of this I say go to Ponce, it will open up doors later. Felicidades!
 
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Ayyye just got accepted to Ponce! Damn.

MD or DO question is real now that I've got it in hand.

And completely fluent in Spanish. 7 months living/studying in Spain, 8 mo in Patagonia & Latin America.


Can anyone speak to the quality of facilities?

Anyone out there familiar with working with PR students?

Insight into the lifestyle on island?

Hands down go to Ponce for sure.
 
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Why are we discussing long-term career opportunities like being a PI or matching into a competitive specialty? Why are we ignoring substantial differences in 4 years of medical school? Why are we ignoring that DO students have to study for COMLEX and DO shelves on top of studying for USMLE and MD shelves to be a strong residency applicant that opens most doors? Whereas MD students don't have to worry about COMLEX/DO shelves to apply to former AOA residencies?

Why are we ignoring required OMM, problems with clinical rotations, and significant differences in clinical education which are all simply due to COCA having less stringent rules and being more relaxed on matters that LCME will not tolerate?

Everything mentioned above is highly variable depending on what DO school you attend other than having to take COMLEX. As for studying for COMLEX, every DO student will say to just study for USMLE, take Step 1, then spend a week (or less) reviewing OMM and take Level 1. No one actually studies exclusively for Level 1. Also, from what I've seen some former AOA programs will still require an OMM component in their curriculum, so MD students would have to study OMM if they enrolled in that program (whether they like it or not). That may have changed recently, but last time I checked it was still a thing.

Plus mandatory OMM labs were actually pretty nice. Basically free massages/adjustments which relieved a lot of stress imo.

Because KCUs KC clinical training is substandard. They have no real hospital affiliates in Kansas city and literally no one in the realm of clinical departments beyond IM and FM (our surgery department consists of one adjunct member who is a professor at KU Med) which would be a huge red flag. A large majority of KCUs OPTI sponsored residencies are in Joplin as well.

Now KCU just partnered with HCA in Kansas City and that's great and all but it's composed of minute clinics and may. 4-5 smaller hospitals and 1 larger one (research medical center). Of those, there's only one residency program in FM and plans to build residencies takes time (as history has shown with Marian touting huge residencies expansion with still no significant results).

A few things to clarify: HCA systems have 8 hospitals in the KC area and 3 of them have over 300 beds (Research, St. Joe's, OP Regional) The other ones are smaller, but I don't think most students rotate through them. We've also got quite a few other hospital affiliates, like Children's Mercy, we just don't have exclusive rights with them. We don't have many affiliated residency programs (I think you're right that it's just the one), but that's a problem with a lot of DO schools and a few of the MD schools as well.

Not sure what you're referring to with the clinical departments in IM and FM thing. Are you saying we just don't have faculty in other departments or that they wouldn't meet LCME standards? Because we've got clinical professors in all of the core departments other than surgery where it's just the one adjunct (IM, FM, peds, OB/GYN, psych) plus a few other departments.

I'll also add that while I completely agree that training with residents should be a priority, there are certain rotations where I learned far more working with a preceptor than I did/would have with residents. Imo it would be ideal to work with residents for part of rotations and get more personalized/one-on-one time with preceptors/attendings at other times, but that's not really realistic. Comparing the rotations I've had with friends that went to MD schools there are obvious pros and cons to both types of rotations, and I think more exposure variety, at least in your chosen field, would yield far more knowledge and experience that only rotating with preceptors or in residency programs.
 
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Not sure what you're referring to with the clinical departments in IM and FM thing. Are you saying we just don't have faculty in other departments or that they wouldn't meet LCME standards? Because we've got clinical professors in all of the core departments other than surgery where it's just the one adjunct (IM, FM, peds, OB/GYN, psych) plus a few other departments.

I mean that our clinical departments are highly lacking. We have 1-2 clinical professors per dept and many of them do no hold any weight in the realm of residency exposure or experience (since a good amount of them are PP and do not serve a role as faculty in a program) and essentially all of them do no perform a lick of research. Just on that end LCME would smack probationary status on our school if they were actually evaluating us.

The entire HCA has 1 residency program in Family Medicine. So being able to have inpatient/resident-led exposure in different specialties is non existent. Sure the extra faculty in HCA for preceptor-based rotations is there and that's great but it's just the same old thing. HCA is not an academic program by any means (UMKC or KU Med do not work with them) and so the quality of training there is going to be be variable.

I have friends at multiple MD schools where they were able to find a faculty mentor of their specialty interest to do research with year 1/2 and that is impossible at our school especially if you have interest or want to do research in surgical subspecialties, Gas, GI, A/I, PulmCC, Rheum, Cards (Dr. Johnston doesn't count), Geriatrics, Heme/Onc, Peds, etc etc. We have an assigned mentorship with a professor and it's for morale support (and that is great btw) and not really building our profile in medicine. It's understandable that one can wait it out till 3rd/4th year but my colleague at Western Michigan Stryker has already gone to 4 conferences and is a 2nd year. These are things that I think are absolutely necessary from the get go and not when we are out on rotations. We shouldn't have to be scrambling third year to pick up a case report and we should be able to focus on how to work on the wards (or outpatient clinic I guess).

That's just my opinion. I can see a huge disconnect in plugging students into the clinical/research side of medicine and really this style of curriculum is becoming quite antiquated (hence the AMA/AAMC's consortium for the future of MedEd which includes OUHCOM and ATSU-SOMA that have innovative curriculums).

I'll also add that while I completely agree that training with residents should be a priority, there are certain rotations where I learned far more working with a preceptor than I did/would have with residents. Imo it would be ideal to work with residents for part of rotations and get more personalized/one-on-one time with preceptors/attendings at other times, but that's not really realistic. Comparing the rotations I've had with friends that went to MD schools there are obvious pros and cons to both types of rotations, and I think more exposure variety, at least in your chosen field, would yield far more knowledge and experience that only rotating with preceptors or in residency programs.
I agree that exposure to both is great and the one on one time can be very good in the aspect of getting a letter. I think what I am getting at is that you lose the experience of understanding what it's like to work with a resident team and to understand your role in that position as am medical student and future intern.
 
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I mean that our clinical departments are highly lacking. We have 1-2 clinical professors per dept and many of them do no hold any weight in the realm of residency exposure or experience (since a good amount of them are PP and do not serve a role as faculty in a program) and essentially all of them do no perform a lick of research. Just on that end LCME would smack probationary status on our school if they were actually evaluating us.

The entire HCA has 1 residency program in Family Medicine. So being able to have inpatient/resident-led exposure in different specialties is non existent. Sure the extra faculty in HCA for preceptor-based rotations is there and that's great but it's just the same old thing. HCA is not an academic program by any means (UMKC or KU Med do not work with them) and so the quality of training there is going to be be variable.

I have friends at multiple MD schools where they were able to find a faculty mentor of their specialty interest to do research with year 1/2 and that is impossible at our school especially if you have interest or want to do research in surgical subspecialties, Gas, GI, A/I, PulmCC, Rheum, Cards (Dr. Johnston doesn't count), Geriatrics, Heme/Onc, Peds, etc etc. We have an assigned mentorship with a professor and it's for morale support (and that is great btw) and not really building our profile in medicine. It's understandable that one can wait it out till 3rd/4th year but my colleague at Western Michigan Stryker has already gone to 4 conferences and is a 2nd year. These are things that I think are absolutely necessary from the get go and not when we are out on rotations. We shouldn't have to be scrambling third year to pick up a case report and we should be able to focus on how to work on the wards (or outpatient clinic I guess).

That's just my opinion. I can see a huge disconnect in plugging students into the clinical/research side of medicine and really this style of curriculum is becoming quite antiquated (hence the AMA/AAMC's consortium for the future of MedEd which includes OUHCOM and ATSU-SOMA that have innovative curriculums).


I agree that exposure to both is great and the one on one time can be very good in the aspect of getting a letter. I think what I am getting at is that you lose the experience of understanding what it's like to work with a resident team and to understand your role in that position as am medical student and future intern.

I get where you're coming from now, and I can totally agree with that. My biggest critique of a lot of the academic programs and MD schools that rotate through the same hospital is the complete lack of training outside of the hospital setting. For those of us who don't want to spend our careers in academic setting or want to work in the outpatient setting even part time, doing all of the rotations in a hospital and "working the wards" does nothing to show one how an outpatient clinic operates, how it should be staffed, the issues with finding and keeping patients, paying for overhead/billing, which companies/programs reimburse well and which ones suck, etc, etc. Even at the big academic programs, not everyone wants to end up in a hospital, and it surprises me how clueless some of my friends who are now residents are about some of the outpatient stuff we talk about (or really any subject that isn't common in a large hospital in a major urban area).

Also, to stay on topic I'd go with Ponce if I were OP. The desire to do international work combined with the background in Spanish makes Ponce over Marian a much easier decision.
 
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Any dissenting arguments out there? Trying to line up flights to go visit; did the interview via skype
 
Any dissenting arguments out there? Trying to line up flights to go visit; did the interview via skype

Only one imo would be if you get there and hate it or are legitimately scared for your safety. If you're going to be miserable in PR for 4 years and it impacts your studying, you might as well go somewhere you're going to love for 4 years and do well. When it's all said and done, what matters in the grand scheme of things is what you actually learn. The greatest step score in the world and where you go to med school won't matter to anyone if you become a crappy doctor.
 
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Any dissenting arguments out there? Trying to line up flights to go visit; did the interview via skype

Link: http://www.psm.edu/wp-content/uploa...Information-and-Student-Achievement-Guide.pdf

Some dissenting arguments, based on my cursory research (follow link above for reference):

Ponce's past match lists aren't impressive -- at least when it comes to distribution of specialties (pgs. 15 and 16). More importantly, the overall match rate (without SOAP) hovers just above 80%, which is concerning (pg. 15).

Ponce's rates of attrition and "academic difficulty" (leaves of absence for academic reasons) are high (pg. 11). Ponce has 9% total attrition, and it has a 66% average four-year graduation rate over the past five years (pg. 10). The latter figure is horrifyingly bad, even compared to DO programs, whose four-year graduation rates are generally in the high 80s or low 90s.

Also, the STEP 1 first-attempt pass rate at Ponce is just over 80%, according to an admission officer in another thread.

---

But we're just talking Ponce vs. MUCOM, right? MUCOM is a new program, so there's very little information about it out there. Have you asked MUCOM staff for the 2017 match list (that is, the match list for its inaugural class)? I believe that MUCOM is legally obligated to give you basic "consumer information" about past student outcomes if you ask for it.

Visit the schools, and do some investigative research. Whatever you end up deciding, I want to congratulate you on officially embarking on the journey toward physicianhood. Best of luck!
 
OP, go to Ponce. Respectfully, do students spend a lot of time defending do schools because they're do students. No judgement there, but between a us allopathic school and an osteopathic school, there's no comparison in terms of keeping your options as open as possible from the get.
 
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People who are saying "Ponce is LCME accredited!" Forget one very important thing: bias and discrimination are not based on facts, no matter how much we rationalize otherwise. People on these forums give all sorts of "objective" reasons why PDs discriminate against DOs and IMGs with the same board scores and accomplishments. This is all 100% bullsh*t. It's like saying "well, I'm sure there are some black people that are smart, but I'm just not comfortable with their higher rates of crime." This is bull**** used to justify inherent prejudices, and deep down we all know it.

People say "PDs discriminate against DOs because of poor rotations and lax COCA standards!" The problem with this line of thinking is that they still discriminate against DOs from the many schools with objectively excellent rotations, and educational standards that exceed some USMD schools. Do you really think a PD at the university of Michigan isn't aware of MSUCOM's excellent reputation? They know damn well how good of a school it is. So why doesn't University of Michigan take DOs from MSU with great board scores for its more competitive programs? Simple. The letters "DO."

The same applies to Ponce. Ponce may be LCME accredited, but lots of PDs still consider it a Caribbean school. There's a reason why Ponce and AAMC feel the need to constantly remind everyone that Ponce is LCME accredited. They have to "remind" PDs that they are USMDs. In the words of Tywin Lannister, "A true king does not need to say 'I am the king!'"

All DO schools could be LCME accredited, meet their standards, and have the same admission stats. They could even keep OMM. But until they offered an degree with the letters MD, they'd be discriminated against.

Ponce could have the same entry stats as USMDs (it doesn't) and offer the best education in the world. But until it moves to the US mainland, they'll always be IMGs to SOME PDs.

In GENERAL, you have a slightly better match outcome at Ponce than you would from a DO school. You will have nowhere near the outcome of the worst-reputed USMD.

Do not go to Ponce thinking you'll be considered a USMD come match time. You won't be.

I wish SDN's forums were set up for "neg reps" for posts like this.
 
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I wish SDN's forums were set up for "neg reps" for posts like this.

Have you looked at Ponce's match rate and match list? It has an 80% first-time match rate (not counting SOAP), and it has barely anybody get into competitive specialties. With a four-year graduation rate of 66% and a match list that largely resembles that of a typical DO school, Ponce really isn't keeping up with mainland MD programs.

While Peach Newport may have phrased things a tad too strongly, he's not be completely off.

With the limited information that I have, I still advise OP to choose Ponce over MUCOM. But if I managed to gather more information about MUCOM student outcomes and was impressed, I'd probably be swayed in the other direction.
 
Have you looked at Ponce's match rate and match list? It has an 80% first-time match rate (not counting SOAP), and it has barely anybody get into competitive specialties. With a four-year graduation rate of 66% and a match list that largely resembles that of a typical DO school, Ponce really isn't keeping up with mainland MD programs.

While Peach Newport may have phrased things a tad too strongly, he's not be completely off.

With the limited information that I have, I still advise OP to choose Ponce over MUCOM. But if I managed to gather more information about MUCOM student outcomes and was impressed, I'd probably be swayed in the other direction.

Just checked this with MUCOM and they reported 98.5% match with 6% going into EM and 6% going into gen surg. Damn that's way better than I had expected. Digging into the Ponce attrition and match rate, guess that's what happens when you're biasing accepts towards non-English native speakers. Less than ideal... But with a 3.6 cgpa and 3.7 sgpa... 505 mcat... can be confident that I fall outside the matriculant distribution...

As a link to another relevant thread if anyone in the future faces this question:

Touro-COM NY vs. Ponce
 
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Have you looked at Ponce's match rate and match list? It has an 80% first-time match rate (not counting SOAP), and it has barely anybody get into competitive specialties. With a four-year graduation rate of 66% and a match list that largely resembles that of a typical DO school, Ponce really isn't keeping up with mainland MD programs.

While Peach Newport may have phrased things a tad too strongly, he's not be completely off.

With the limited information that I have, I still advise OP to choose Ponce over MUCOM. But if I managed to gather more information about MUCOM student outcomes and was impressed, I'd probably be swayed in the other direction.

I wouldn't. I like the LCME security a lot more.
 
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Just checked this with MUCOM and they reported 98.5% match with 6% going into EM and 6% going into gen surg. Damn that's way better than I had expected. Digging into the Ponce attrition and match rate, guess that's what happens when you're biasing accepts towards non-English native speakers. Less than ideal... But with a 3.6 cgpa and 3.7 sgpa... 505 mcat... can be confident that I fall outside the matriculant distribution...

At Ponce, for 2016: 8% matched into EM, 5% into general surgery. Comparable.

Yeah, I still say go with Ponce. But it's a closer call than a lot of SDNers seem to think.
 
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At Ponce, for 2016: 8% matched into EM, 5% into general surgery. Comparable.

Yeah, I still say go with Ponce. But it's a closer call than a lot of SDNers seem to think.
Thank you so much for bouncing ideas on this topic. I'm buying tickets to go visit and see how the island 'feels.' I'll post a 'report' on PR / Ponce areas so others may benefit who are considering it -- info on That school very hard to come by
 
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Have you looked at Ponce's match rate and match list? It has an 80% first-time match rate (not counting SOAP), and it has barely anybody get into competitive specialties. With a four-year graduation rate of 66% and a match list that largely resembles that of a typical DO school, Ponce really isn't keeping up with mainland MD programs.

While Peach Newport may have phrased things a tad too strongly, he's not be completely off.

With the limited information that I have, I still advise OP to choose Ponce over MUCOM. But if I managed to gather more information about MUCOM student outcomes and was impressed, I'd probably be swayed in the other direction.

The four year graduation rate is concerning, but what are the circumstances? Are people taking an extra year to study for boards? A research year or some other academic endeavor? Or is that four-year rate so low because people don't match and come back for a 5th year or because people have to remediate?

Not trying to sway OP away from anything, but it's something I would try and look into further before making a final decision as the bolded statistics above should be somewhat concerning.
 
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