Sep 12, 2015
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Hey Guys,

I spent literally an hour today looking through different postbac programs. I can't seem to find one that meets these criteria:

(1) for someone who has already completed prereqs
(2) has MD school linkages
(3) cheap
(4) the program itself is not incredibly selective (like UPenn)

Does anybody know any programs that match? I'm not so much worried about #3 and #4, but I absolutely need #1 and #2. Any help?

Thanks!
 

Goro

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Look up special masters programs. These are a dime-a-dozen. Drexel, PCOM, G-town, Mt Sinai, Rosy Franklyn, TUNCOM, LECOM, just to name a few.
 
OP
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Sep 12, 2015
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So do most SMPs have linkage agreements? Any idea on how competitive they are? I have a 3.6 GPA, 1 publication, 27 mcat, and average volunteering. How hard for the DOs (LECOM postbacc, VCOM)? MDs? Thanks :)
 

ZedsDed

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So do most SMPs have linkage agreements? Any idea on how competitive they are? I have a 3.6 GPA, 1 publication, 27 mcat, and average volunteering. How hard for the DOs (LECOM postbacc, VCOM)? MDs? Thanks :)
You, personally, don't need a postbacc for MD or DO schools. You need an MCAT retake for MD schools. The choice is yours, good luck.

I did chuckle a bit when I noticed you tagged this post with four different ways of spelling "postbacc" so as many people as possible would see it, yet for some reason you didn't feel it necessary to post this thread in the postbacc forum :laugh:
 

GrapesofRath

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So do most SMPs have linkage agreements? Any idea on how competitive they are? I have a 3.6 GPA, 1 publication, 27 mcat, and average volunteering. How hard for the DOs (LECOM postbacc, VCOM)? MDs? Thanks :)
Any post-bacc/SMP is a complete waste of time with a 3.6 and can only hurt you not help you.

A post-bacc/SMP for A DO school with a 3.6 is an even bigger waste of time and more foolish. Your stats are competitive for almost any DO program.

As others have said re-take the MCAT. Get a 510+ and suddenly you are clearly a viable MD candidate and very competitive for any DO program in the country.

To answer your question there are SMPs with fairly strong linkage agreements but applying to an SMP just to try and get a linkage at that specific school is not a particularly good idea, unless we are talking about a very specific program like Temple, or Tulane where you simply have to hit a certain average and you are automatically in and the vast majority of their SMP students do hit those averages and become medical students. For Tulane you need a waitlist from an MD school previously to even apply; Temple I believe only takes 13 people a year or something like that.

Just to give perspective the lowest GPA I would say you can ever justify an SMP for in my opinion is around a 3.3(and that's hardly absolute there are many people with 3.2's or so whom I say don't do an SMP). With a 3.6 is just incredibly illogical.
 

FutureOncologist

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The only "real linkage" in this country is Temple. If you make a 3.5 sGPA in their program, then you will get an automatic II/acceptance (don't remember which one) to their medical school. The "top tier" SMPs have a great matriculation rate to medical school, but they are declining. Cincinnati's SMP once saw 95% matriculation rate, but has gone down to 70-80%.

With your GPA, you're fine for DO schools. If you retake the MCAT and do stellar, then you're competitive for any school. Take a year off to volunteer and study for the MCAT. The cost of living on your own and buying the materials for the MCAT is far cheaper than shelling out TENS of THOUSANDS for something that, if you bomb, ruins your chances for medical school.
 
OP
NewTab
Sep 12, 2015
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(1) I really want MD, not DO. I don't want a couple B's in undergrad and lack of volunteer motivation to humiliate me for the rest of my life. (no offense DOs)

(2) I will be retaking the MCAT, and applying next summer. But then i have this large gap year. I could just rot away for a year in my parent's basement, play xbox, but I'd rather do something a bit more productive that would be a backup in case I don't get any acceptances.

(3) Thanks guys.
 
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OP
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(4) So do "SMPs" almost by definition have linkage agreements?
 

steelersfan1243

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(1) I really want MD, not DO. I don't want a couple B's in undergrad and lack of volunteer motivation to humiliate me for the rest of my life. (no offense DOs)

(2) I will be retaking the MCAT, and applying next summer. But then i have this large gap year. I could just rot away for a year in my parent's basement, play xbox, and masturbate, but I'd rather do something a bit more productive that would be a backup in case I don't get any acceptances.

(3) Thanks guys.
:corny:
 

GrapesofRath

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(1) I really want MD, not DO. I don't want a couple B's in undergrad and lack of volunteer motivation to humiliate me for the rest of my life. (no offense DOs)

(2) I will be retaking the MCAT, and applying next summer. But then i have this large gap year. I could just rot away for a year in my parent's basement, play xbox, and masturbate, but I'd rather do something a bit more productive that would be a backup in case I don't get any acceptances.

(3) Thanks guys.
Troll, troll, troll your boat.
 
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Troll, troll, troll your boat.
No no no no. I am 100% serious. I have exclusively A/Bs. A little more As than Bs. I got depressed and didn't do as much volunteering as I should. And it is just a fact that DOs are seen as less than MDs. **not trying to start a fight, its just true** So yeah, I want to be an MD instead of a DO. Whats the big deal with that?
 

MrTaco92

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(1) I really want MD, not DO. I don't want a couple B's in undergrad and lack of volunteer motivation to humiliate me for the rest of my life. (no offense DOs)

(2) I will be retaking the MCAT, and applying next summer. But then i have this large gap year. I could just rot away for a year in my parent's basement, play xbox, and masturbate, but I'd rather do something a bit more productive that would be a backup in case I don't get any acceptances.

(3) Thanks guys.
Or you could just work full time and make some money
 
OP
NewTab
Sep 12, 2015
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Or you could just work full time and make some money
Yeah, i thought about that, but the only jobs I could get are some measly lab tech or something that pay $40k. After takes is like $30k, after living expenses for the year is like $10k, which is not worth a year of my life.
 
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mehc012

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Yeah, i thought about that, but the only jobs I could get are some measly lab tech or something that pay $40k. After takes is like $30k, after living expenses for the year is like $10k, which is not worth a fuсking year of my life.
Or you could live In your parents basement, play xbox, masturbate, AND get some clinical experience/a job while you're at it. Instead of filling your time with an expensive program that will only hurt your need school chances, you could save up some money (even 10k is worth it if you were going to delay a year anyway...many people don't even have that) and beef up your app in a way that absolutely won't hurt you.
If you're willing to do the SMP, it's pretty damn irrational not to be willing to find a scribe job, internship, volunteer position, lab job, SOMETHING that will be a better option than either nothing or the SMP.
 
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ZedsDed

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No no no no. I am 100% serious. I have exclusively A/Bs. A little more As than Bs. I got depressed and didn't do as much volunteering as I should. And it is just a fact that DOs are seen as less than MDs. **not trying to start a fight, its just true** So yeah, I want to be an MD instead of a DO. Whats the big deal with that?
Your lack of volunteering will keep you out of DO schools too btw.

Linkage SMPs are, by there very nature, competitive. There is only one linkage SMP that actually guarantees an acceptance, and you are not competitive for it. Tulane's SMP has something like >90% matriculation rate, but they require a waitlist from an MD school. Really you are not competitive for any "true" SMPs with a 27 MCAT.

I would follow @mehc012 's advice if I were you.
 

ZedsDed

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Ehhhh I don't know about this. At WashU's post-bacc, you only need 12 credits per semester which makes getting >3.6 very manageable. They have two "pathways" - one for pre-reqs and one for enhancing preparation for medical school. Plus, this program has helped shoe me into an amazing research opportunity at WashU Med. (...oh and there are many many clincal/volunteering opportunities.)

Luckily, though, my parents live in STL (so I bit the bullet and moved in for a year). OP, you won't find 'cheap' tuition, but it sure helps if you don't have to worry about rent.

And stay away from SMPs. The price tags are a bit ridiculous.
He's saying a postbacc is a waste of time if you go into the program with 3.6.
 
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GrapesofRath

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Yeah I got that, but I assumed he was talking about post-baccs being a waste of time by not being able to significantly improve that GPA... which I still disagree with (hence, the reason why I supported my post with the additional perks of a post-bacc). Getting a 3.9-4.0 post-bacc GPA within meaningful courses is worth the $15K tuition/year if you're able to land a good job, volunteer, get clinical experience, and join a MCAT study group in the meantime.

I know that enrolling in school isn't necessary to obtain these opportunities, but for someone like me, who came from a very small undergrad with limited outlets, WashU made it very easy and possible to find these opportunities quickly.
You know what happens when you assume.
 

mehc012

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Yeah I got that, but I assumed he was talking about post-baccs being a waste of time by not being able to significantly improve that GPA... which I still disagree with (hence, the reason why I supported my post with the additional perks of a post-bacc). Getting a 3.9-4.0 post-bacc GPA within meaningful courses is worth the $15K tuition/year if you're able to land a good job, volunteer, get clinical experience, and join a MCAT study group in the meantime.

I know that enrolling in school isn't necessary to obtain these opportunities, but for someone like me, who came from a very small undergrad with limited outlets, WashU made it very easy and possible to find these opportunities quickly.
It's not that you can't improve upon that GPA in your postbacc...it's that if you have a 3.6, your GPA is not what's holding you back (if anything is). It's a waste of effort because it's throwing a lot of time and money at something that wasn't a problem to begin with.
 
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FutureOncologist

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It's not that you can't improve upon that GPA in your postbacc...it's that if you have a 3.6, your GPA is not what's holding you back (if anything is). It's a waste of effort because it's throwing a lot of time and money at something that wasn't a problem to begin with.
To carry the argument further, it seems childish/irresponsible if you do successfully in these kinds of programs. It doesn't show much character other than you keep making mistakes with grades

If you do poorly, then that's even worse. OPs obvious hindrance isn't GPA. His GPA is fine for any school in my opinion. What he lacks is the clinical volunteering and the MCAT.
 
OP
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Serious question - will I be a bad doctor if I absolutely loathe volunteering? I just hate being in a hospital and talking to patients about filling out forms and such. I think I would love being a doctor (and having the autonomy, respect, etc. that volunteers dont have), but I know that I *hate* volunteering.
 

ZedsDed

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Serious question - will I be a bad doctor if I absolutely loathe volunteering? I just hate being in a hospital and talking to patients about filling out forms and such. I think I would love being a doctor (and having the autonomy, respect, etc. that volunteers dont have), but I know that I *hate* volunteering.
So, do you hate taking care of patients? Do you get any satisfaction out of seeing people healed?
 

Lawper

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Serious question - will I be a bad doctor if I absolutely loathe volunteering? I just hate being in a hospital and talking to patients about filling out forms and such. I think I would love being a doctor (and having the autonomy, respect, etc. that volunteers dont have), but I know that I *hate* volunteering.
So, do you hate taking care of patients? Do you get any satisfaction out of seeing people healed?
Curiously, it's not really uncommon to see people who can't stand volunteering but excel in patient interactions in clinical years and in residency. And we have the converse of people who loved volunteering but hated the clinical years and patient interaction. I'm not sure how it works but relationship between the two is exaggerated.
 

ZedsDed

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Curiously, it's not really uncommon to see people who can't stand volunteering but excel in patient interactions in clinical years and in residency. And we have the converse of people who loved volunteering but hated the clinical years and patient interaction. I'm not sure how it works but relationship between the two is exaggerated.
Yeah I've heard that before, which is why I asked how OP feels about patient interaction specifically.
 
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Very important: there is a difference between doctor/patient contact and volunteer/patient contact. As a volunteer, everybody kind of sh*ts on you. Even the lowliest nurse techs take pleasure in bossing me around. And I'm just like, "hun, the interest on my trust fund alone is almost five times your salary". Thats not the point though....

This is what it boils down to: I detest being in the hospital environment without being a doctor myself.

Also, theres a big difference between "Are you here to see a patient or check in to see a doctor?" "Please fill out this form" "Ok ma'am, what is your daughters name?" "Ok sir, you need to check with security to get a visitors pass". etcetcetcetetc thats a hell of a lot different that talking with a patient about actual clinical things and making a diagnosis.

But I want to ask you guys - will I end up hating being a doctor? Is the volunteerwork i just described similar to actual doctor/patient relations?

fyi, im the kid who doesn't like to talk much while we're waiting for the professor to arrive in class...however when class discussion starts, then I know everything to say....so maybe that could be analogous to the two types (volunteer vs doctor) of communication?
 

GrapesofRath

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Very important: there is a difference between doctor/patient contact and volunteer/patient contact. As a volunteer, everybody kind of sh*ts on you. Even the lowliest nurse techs take pleasure in bossing me around. And I'm just like, "hun, the interest on my trust fund alone is almost five times your salary". Thats not the point though....
Smooth
 
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ZedsDed

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Very important: there is a difference between doctor/patient contact and volunteer/patient contact. As a volunteer, everybody kind of sh*ts on you. Even the lowliest nurse techs take pleasure in bossing me around. And I'm just like, "hun, the interest on my trust fund alone is almost five times your salary". Thats not the point though....

This is what it boils down to: I detest being in the hospital environment without being a doctor myself.

Also, theres a big difference between "Are you here to see a patient or check in to see a doctor?" "Please fill out this form" "Ok ma'am, what is your daughters name?" "Ok sir, you need to check with security to get a visitors pass". etcetcetcetetc thats a hell of a lot different that talking with a patient about actual clinical things and making a diagnosis.

But I want to ask you guys - will I end up hating being a doctor? Is the volunteerwork i just described similar to actual doctor/patient relations?

fyi, im the kid who doesn't like to talk much while we're waiting for the professor to arrive in class...however when class discussion starts, then I know everything to say....so maybe that could be analogous to the two types (volunteer vs doctor) of communication?
You are implying that your trust fund positions you above grunt work. It doesn't. You, even if/when you become a physician, are not above your coworkers. I'll cut to the chase though, are you altruistic in any way, shape, or form? Or are sick people just another puzzle to be solved?
 
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mehc012

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Very important: there is a difference between doctor/patient contact and volunteer/patient contact.
That's definitely true.
As a volunteer, everybody kind of sh*ts on you.
That does NOT have to be true...I never experienced anything even remotely like that as a volunteer. Might be just your location.
Even the lowliest nurse techs take pleasure in bossing me around. And I'm just like, "hun, the interest on my trust fund alone is almost five times your salary". Thats not the point though....
Yeah, that's definitely not the point...your parents' money has nothing to do with whether or not you are useful or deserve respect. This sentence kinda just makes you a dick. That's not the point though...

fyi, im the kid who doesn't like to talk much while we're waiting for the professor to arrive in class...however when class discussion starts, then I know everything to say....so maybe that could be analogous to the two types (volunteer vs doctor) of communication?
So...you don't like interacting with people unless it gives you a chance to show you're better than them? Perhaps that's not what you mean, but between your trust fund bit and this last part, it's really how you're coming across.

I'm starting to think that it's less your location and more your attitude that's tempting people to **** on you.

inb4 "it was just a joke, lighten up!"
 
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Sep 4, 2015
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Lol OP, you don't have to like volunteering, very few of your classmates do. We do it because we have to, ADCOMs are just too dumb to see this. Just suffer through it, and think about the awesomeness that comes with being a doctor in your future.
 
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ZedsDed

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Lol OP, you don't have to like volunteering, very few of your classmates do. We do it because we have to, ADCOMs are just too dumb to see this. Just suffer through it, and think about the awesomeness that comes with being a doctor in your future.
:barf:
 

Gurby

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Very important: there is a difference between doctor/patient contact and volunteer/patient contact. As a volunteer, everybody kind of sh*ts on you. Even the lowliest nurse techs take pleasure in bossing me around. And I'm just like, "hun, the interest on my trust fund alone is almost five times your salary". Thats not the point though....

This is what it boils down to: I detest being in the hospital environment without being a doctor myself.

Also, theres a big difference between "Are you here to see a patient or check in to see a doctor?" "Please fill out this form" "Ok ma'am, what is your daughters name?" "Ok sir, you need to check with security to get a visitors pass". etcetcetcetetc thats a hell of a lot different that talking with a patient about actual clinical things and making a diagnosis.

But I want to ask you guys - will I end up hating being a doctor? Is the volunteerwork i just described similar to actual doctor/patient relations?

fyi, im the kid who doesn't like to talk much while we're waiting for the professor to arrive in class...however when class discussion starts, then I know everything to say....so maybe that could be analogous to the two types (volunteer vs doctor) of communication?
There is a character who is just like you in the book, The House of God. He kills himself...
 
OP
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Is it true that other premeds don't actually enjoy volunteering? I mean, in theory volunteering sounds nice, but honestly I'd rather be studying for the MCAT or something similar. Please tell me I'm not the only one....

On a side note, does anyone have any idea of any volunteering positions that are more similar to being a doctor? i.e. medically related interactions, etc
 

mehc012

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I enjoyed my volunteering gig...I ran hearing screening tests on newborn infants. It was quite fun, a lot of one on one interaction with new families, explaining the results (limited by my role), making sure the right people had the right info for charting, etc.

Children's hospitals tend to have the best gigs...and the longest process for getting started.
 
Sep 4, 2015
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Is it true that other premeds don't actually enjoy volunteering? I mean, in theory volunteering sounds nice, but honestly I'd rather be studying for the MCAT or something similar. Please tell me I'm not the only one....

On a side note, does anyone have any idea of any volunteering positions that are more similar to being a doctor? i.e. medically related interactions, etc
No, you're not alone, but you "have to" do it. So, suck it up. And you can't be seriously asking if there are any volunteering positions that let you act like a doctor...