Potential 3rd time applicant - need advice

[johndoe123]

I applied to dental school last year, was waitlisted at 2 schools and did not get accepted, unfortunately. I am Canadian. I applied very late last year, around november. This year I applied early, but only recieved one interview so far, to which I was waitlisted at Dec 1. I have a 3.4 GPA (science and overall), and a 20 AA / 19TS DAT score.

This past year I have added to my volunteer experiences, but my GPA has a downward trend, and my DAT score can most definitely do better (I could have studied much harder). I am currently studying to retake the DAT exam, in hopes of increasing my score to maybe make it off the waitlist or score more interviews. If I get 23+ is that a realistic possibility?

If I do not get in this year, and have to be a 3rd time applicant, should I take a masters program, or should I enroll in another year of undergraduate studies and try to get a high GPA in upper level courses? I feel pretty stumped, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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[Kittenz]

If I was in your shoes, I would look towards doing a SMP.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/the-official-guide-to-special-masters-programs.346106/

I spoke with admission officers at a couple schools previously and they all agreed on if an applicant didn't get in, they would want them to do a SMP instead of post-bac.

 

[dyesht]

I applied to dental school last year, was waitlisted at 2 schools and did not get accepted, unfortunately. I am Canadian. I applied very late last year, around november. This year I applied early, but only recieved one interview so far, to which I was waitlisted at Dec 1. I have a 3.4 GPA (science and overall), and a 20 AA / 19TS DAT score.

This past year I have added to my volunteer experiences, but my GPA has a downward trend, and my DAT score can most definitely do better (I could have studied much harder). I am currently studying to retake the DAT exam, in hopes of increasing my score to maybe make it off the waitlist or score more interviews. If I get 23+ is that a realistic possibility?

If I do not get in this year, and have to be a 3rd time applicant, should I take a masters program, or should I enroll in another year of undergraduate studies and try to get a high GPA in upper level courses? I feel pretty stumped, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Your GPA isn't bad, and your DAT isn't bad either. You are getting interviews, which means you're competitive. Getting into a MS program will make you very competitive, so it might be a good idea. How many schools did you apply to?

 

[aggietxdent]

If your question is either more undergrad or a masters program, I'd honestly say it doesn't matter. As long as you're in school and taking classes (upper level science and relevant classes) with an upward or very high GPA, it should be fine. However, I wouldn't just stop taking classes and work in like a dental office or something. I've been told schools much rather prefer you to actually be in classes than working as a dental assistant.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Something to consider is that you will not have even started your masters degree by the time you're applying next summer. Admission committees aren't going to see how you performed. So, you may need to wait out the next cycle to complete the degree before you apply for it to carry much weight. Just my two cents.

Big Hoss

 

[ljcesar]

your stats look decent so you should be able to get accepted somewhere. although I have heard that it has gotten harder to get into dental school since when I applied years ago. What schools are you applying to? maybe try applying to some of the schools you haven't applied to before. a dental school is a dental school and will get you a dental degree so it doesn't matter if you go to the lowest ranked school or the highest ranked school because at the end of the day you will still be a dentist.... well if you make it through school successfully that is! good luck!

 

[PaulS]

you are a Canadian and want to go to American school?? this is a financial suicide!! its gonna cost you at least 500k to attend a dental school in states as a canadian. this is such a bad financial decision. Consider yourself lucky for not being accepted. Try to get in Canada somewhere! do NOT spend 500k on dental school. Its not worth it. Golden age of dentistry is over! dentists are struggling and new grads find it hard to find stable jobs. you will be a professional loan payer if you go. Sorry If I sound a little harsh but I am just being honest. Best of luck to you

 

[dyesht]

you are a Canadian and want to go to American school?? this is a financial suicide!! its gonna cost you at least 500k to attend a dental school in states as a canadian. this is such a bad financial decision. Consider yourself lucky for not being accepted. Try to get in Canada somewhere! do NOT spend 500k on dental school. Its not worth it. Golden age of dentistry is over! dentists are struggling and new grads find it hard to find stable jobs. you will be a professional loan payer if you go. Sorry If I sound a little harsh but I am just being honest. Best of luck to you

Financial suicide? Explain how making over 100K a year is making financial suicide?

 

[PaulS]

Financial suicide? Explain how making over 100K a year is making financial suicide?

ok, lets see. if you are canadian who has attended an american dental school, by the time you graduate you'll have at least 500k Canadian dollars in debt (maybe more) excluding interest (with interest it'll be around 750k!!!) . Lets say you are lucky and get a good full time gig at a nice private clinic (rare these days) with 120k annual income which will be 86115 dollars after tax. now its time to pay back that gigantic half a million dollar loan with a interest rate of 3.7%. if you want to pay it back in 10 years, your monthly loan payment will be 6250 canadian dollars. you'll also have to spend money on CEs, memberships, malpractice insurance which will be around 10-15k per year. 86115-(12*6250)-10000= 1115. as you can see you'll be left with 1115 dollars to live on for the next 10 years. you'll have to move in to your parent's basement and eat ramen noodles everyday. forget about getting married, buying a house, buying a car, having a family for the next 10 years! thats I why I suggested to the OP to try canadian schools and minimize his student loan debt so he'll have a better quality of life! don't go into this profession with the mindset that you'll be rich! that will never happen! expect a very modest lifestyle

 

[dyesht]

ok, lets see. if you are canadian who has attended an american dental school, by the time you graduate you'll have at least 500k Canadian dollars in debt (maybe more) excluding interest (with interest it'll be around 750k!!!) . Lets say you are lucky and get a good full time gig at a nice private clinic (rare these days) with 120k annual income which will be 86115 dollars after tax. now its time to pay back that gigantic half a million dollar loan with a interest rate of 3.7%. if you want to pay it back in 10 years, your monthly loan payment will be 6250 canadian dollars. you'll also have to spend money on CEs, memberships, malpractice insurance which will be around 10-15k per year. 86115-(12*6250)-10000= 1115. as you can see you'll be left with 1115 dollars to live on for the next 10 years. you'll have to move in to your parent's basement and eat ramen noodles everyday. forget about getting married, buying a house, buying a car, having a family for the next 10 years! thats I why I suggested to the OP to try canadian schools and minimize his student loan debt so he'll have a better quality of life! don't go into this profession with the mindset that you'll be rich! that will never happen! expect a very modest lifestyle

Ok i see! So it's worse if you're Canadian trying to make it over here in the US?

 

[Redtwogreen]

I didn't get into dental school my first go around and chatted with a few admissions officers, ended up doing a masters and got into dental school the following year. They didn't wait for my grades to finalize when I finished my masters before I was accepted (accepted in Dec, didn't finish my masters until June). I honestly think they just liked that I had a master's degree so that is a solid option as far as getting in goes. However, getting that masters was pretty expensive and its definitely not ideal starting out dental school with debt (since you are going to accrue a ton). Including my masters (and my wife's law school) I graduated dental school with about $600k in student loans which is pretty insane. If I were you I'd chat with some admissions people at your top schools and see what they think-- they might just want a better DAT score.

 

[Blake1e]

I applied to dental school last year, was waitlisted at 2 schools and did not get accepted, unfortunately. I am Canadian. I applied very late last year, around november. This year I applied early, but only recieved one interview so far, to which I was waitlisted at Dec 1. I have a 3.4 GPA (science and overall), and a 20 AA / 19TS DAT score.

This past year I have added to my volunteer experiences, but my GPA has a downward trend, and my DAT score can most definitely do better (I could have studied much harder). I am currently studying to retake the DAT exam, in hopes of increasing my score to maybe make it off the waitlist or score more interviews. If I get 23+ is that a realistic possibility?

If I do not get in this year, and have to be a 3rd time applicant, should I take a masters program, or should I enroll in another year of undergraduate studies and try to get a high GPA in upper level courses? I feel pretty stumped, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I did the more undergrad way and retaking the DAT. I knew I could pull of 4.0s and 23+ on the DAT, and I did. I got in my 3rd time applying. If you arent absolutely sure you can brutally crush every exam in undergrad then a masters might be a better option. It'll cost more and you might have to move but if you get 3.7+ GPA then that would look way better than more undergrad even with more A's.

Good luck, if you have the will there will always be a way.

EDIT: With your GPA I honestly think more undergrad would be the answer. 3.4 is not bad. Get a year full of A's to fix your downward trend and youll be set in that regard. Take a mix of easy and upper level science classes only. Bump your DAT to 22+AA and I think your shot next cycle will be great. A masters will waste too much time like a someone mentioned above.

 

[cmcner]

I did the more undergrad way and retaking the DAT. I knew I could pull of 4.0s and 23+ on the DAT, and I did. I got in my 3rd time applying. If you arent absolutely sure you can brutally crush every exam in undergrad then a masters might be a better option. It'll cost more and you might have to move but if you get 3.7+ GPA then that would look way better than more undergrad even with more A's.

Good luck, if you have the will there will always be a way.

EDIT: With your GPA I honestly think more undergrad would be the answer. 3.4 is not bad. Get a year full of A's to fix your downward trend and youll be set in that regard. Take a mix of easy and upper level science classes only. Bump your DAT to 22+AA and I think your shot next cycle will be great. A masters will waste too much time like a someone mentioned above.

I don't like this logic. With a full year of A's at best you get a 3.5 after 120 credits, but with a full year of A's in a masters you get a 4.0 plus an extra degree often for the same price or cheaper

 

[Blake1e]

I don't like this logic. With a full year of A's at best you get a 3.5 after 120 credits, but with a full year of A's in a masters you get a 4.0 plus an extra degree often for the same price or cheaper

The point wouldnt be to increase the GPA significantly, the point would be to fix his downward trend in grades. I think his 3.4 should be good enough for an acceptance. And if he retakes the DAT and maybe improves extracurricular then he'll be all the better off.

 

[johndoe123]

Thank you @Blake1e for the advice! I actually was lurking and came across your DAT breakdown a while ago, and it reminded me of my situation and gave me hope! When I wrote last time, I just used the Kaplan book (as they said it's all you need) and that was suicide (other factors included how this book was missing important chapters, I didnt do much PAT/math practice, etc - my DAT score is completely my own fault). This time I am using bootcamp and destroyer - I know even with these resources a high score is still not guaranteed, but I am definitely going for a more careful approach.

I am still not sure of what the best path would be. Most masters programs are 2 years in Canada - meaning I would have to maybe miss 2 cycles if that is my approach - but I believe this is the safer option. More undergrad seems more appealing in that I can apply sooner and hopefully have a semester of 4.0's (fingers crossed) but I would get less out of it, and despite fixing my downward trend - one semester isn't much overall, so I don't know how they would view that. I emailed one school I was interested in asking this question and they responded something along the lines of "if you feel that a graduate program will help your application then do it, preferably in science", which didn't really help me.

There is definitely pros and cons to both, it's a really hard choice but I think after writing my DAT next month I should have a little more clarity.

Thank you all so much for the responses! I haven't been on SDN for a bit and thought that this thread was dead, but it was very comforting to get so much help from every one of you!

 

[johndoe123]

To answer the previous question, I applied to a lot of "Canadian-friendy" schools - there aren't very many! I had a list of about 14

 

[Blake1e]

Thank you @Blake1e for the advice! I actually was lurking and came across your DAT breakdown a while ago, and it reminded me of my situation and gave me hope! When I wrote last time, I just used the Kaplan book (as they said it's all you need) and that was suicide (other factors included how this book was missing important chapters, I didnt do much PAT/math practice, etc - my DAT score is completely my own fault). This time I am using bootcamp and destroyer - I know even with these resources a high score is still not guaranteed, but I am definitely going for a more careful approach.

I am still not sure of what the best path would be. Most masters programs are 2 years in Canada - meaning I would have to maybe miss 2 cycles if that is my approach - but I believe this is the safer option. More undergrad seems more appealing in that I can apply sooner and hopefully have a semester of 4.0's (fingers crossed) but I would get less out of it, and despite fixing my downward trend - one semester isn't much overall, so I don't know how they would view that. I emailed one school I was interested in asking this question and they responded something along the lines of "if you feel that a graduate program will help your application then do it, preferably in science", which didn't really help me.

There is definitely pros and cons to both, it's a really hard choice but I think after writing my DAT next month I should have a little more clarity.

Thank you all so much for the responses! I haven't been on SDN for a bit and thought that this thread was dead, but it was very comforting to get so much help from every one of you!

Usually people do a masters is b/c they have a really low GPA and yours isnt that bad, thats why I didnt think it was a good path to go. For me a masters has too many cons like you said (2 more wasted yrs). But yeah its a good move to wait till after the DAT retake to decide what to do. Yeah, kaplan was garbage. I actually really hated it haha. I have a feeling youll do much better this time with those new study materials. Have fun kicking ass!