Potential DPT Earnings

[EastSide]

Hello members,

I seem to be paralyzed in making my decision on pursuing PT...
I went on a detour after I completed UG as a pre-PT; will turn 26 next month.

I have an acceptance to a PT program starting Fall 2019.
However, the debt-to-income ratio is driving me insane.
I got my tuition down to 91K (with scholarship).

Potential Starting Income 65K --> after 30% tax (prob more if working in city/philadelphia) = $45,500
Monthly income = ~$3,800
Quick Breakdown Post-Grad payment: (per month)
1. DPT loan + UG loan = $1500 x 10years (fed loans 10 year repayment plan)
- Currently 50K UG debt, paying around $500/month x 10 years
- Adding around 100K to DPT debt will add another $1000/month x 10year
2. membership (amazon, gym, Spotify, etc) = $100
3. Car Gas = $100
4. Grocery / Food = $500
5. House/Apmt Rent = $800
6. Internet/Phone = ?
7. Insurance = ?
8. others = ?

If this breakdown proves to be somewhat true, I will essentially be living paycheck-to-paycheck for 10 years.

Potential Relief:
Sure you can do income driven payment plan, but I want to avoid accruing massive interest in my school loans.
Sure, my income will steadily rise up to 80-85K with several years under my belt. But more income = more tax . And that would still leave me with little to save.
And yes, having a spouse that makes +50K-70K would also alleviate finance burden on providing for family needs.
Yes I can pick up per diem shifts. But stacking 50-60 work week would counteract the great attraction of work-life balance of PT.

Regardless of all these, this breakdown and potential lifestyle post-grad is very daunting.
Can anyone shed some light onto your financial conditions post-grad?

Other Option:
I completed a post-bac and could reapply to medical school (2nd cycle). But the reality of medicine and its associated lifestyle turns me away.

I can apply to PA school. I have all the Pre-Reqs & +1500hrs of patient contact hours.
I am currently an EMT. I found equal fulfillment as a Rehab Aid in rehab science as well as my time as an EMT with life support, interventions, pharmacology, etc.

I would hope that you won't jump to the conclusion of "typical millennial who do not want to work". I know myself and see more to life than work and am confident admitting that. I have other great interests (music, photography, travel, etc) and am deeply involved in a worship band in church. I also consider myself a family-man, for I will highly prioritize my family time.

Therefore, I am strongly leaning on opting out of PT and adjusting my course to PA school. The proportion to cost of education & income is optimal.

Hopefully you all can meet this post with an understanding attitude.
Thank you so much for your time.

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[SATXDPT]

You won't always make $65k per year, Yes taxes will go up as your income increases, but your salary and take home pay will still grow. So why don't you start out by calculating your loans over 20 years instead? Your minimum payment will be lower, which will give you some breathing room.
You can still pay extra and should consider working 1 weekend a month PRN in a SNF or doing Home Health evaluations for extra cash. If you want to be aggressive and pay your loans off quickly, then you should also plan to have a room mate to cut costs.
Obviously, thousands of PTs graduate every year and figure out how to pay their loans.
You have an acceptance in hand. If you decide to go the PA route, how much time will you lose and how hard will it be to get in?
It's normal to have anxiety and doubts, but $91k for PT school isn't insurmountable.

 

[truthseeker]

I started working at 30K with 24K of debt (1991) I bought a car, owned a house (I was married at the time, still am, to the same person who was and is employed as a speech pathologist) and made it just fine. Your car may not be a Mazerati, and your house might not be a posh place in a killer neighborhood, but my point is it can be done. maybe find a less expensive PT school to apply to. The thing is, if you don't love what you do, you will regret making the decision solely on finances.

 

[Azimuthal]

I’d go PA, just seems like more options down the road.

I graduated using what’s left of my GI Bill and then student loans. Started in 2015 at about $84k/yr and about $65k in student loans. I’m pulling in a good amount more now from my primary job, own a house, have two kids, and two cars and a motorcycle paid for. We live okay, can’t complain. I can afford all my hobbies, i.e. workout equipment, tacticool gear, and video games. My kids swim and have other extra curricular activities. My wife is the bread winner in our family, though.

Everyone is different and seek different lifestyles. Ask yourself how you want to live like and plan from there. Good luck!

 

[ya1]

As a PT, my starting salary was about 82K for 40 h/week. Student loan 100K. Minimum loan payment is below $600/month.

 

[starrsgirl]

If I had to do it again, I too would go PA. PT was a second career for me, I wish I had looked harder at that top salary number to make sure I was OK with a job where the salary topped out maximally within 1-2 years from graduation. I too took my GI Bill to go to PT school, so I'm not even dealing with a ton of debt. I love PT, I love what I do, I am happy going to work. But I'm smart enough and competent enough to also be in any number of medical fields. I could make more for my family for my time away from my family than I do now. It burns me to see the PA students (who graduated 1 year BEFORE we did), making serious bank a few years out of school. I live in a rural area right now, the PA who worked 2-3 days a week equaled made the same salary as the full time PT....same office, same patients (workmans comp).

I did all the life calculations like you did. I was initially only got into a private school where my GI Bill did not cover the full tuition. I was going to have to take 80K in student debt. I actually decided to turn that offer down and walk away from PT school entirely. For me, 80K was too much debt. I could make the equivalent salary (factoring in NOT paying a student loan) without going back to school, and I would have been happy too. I ended up getting an acceptance off the wait list at the very last minute to the state school and went for it.

It's difficult for me to advise new, young and bright eyed applicants. They want to do what I do and I think my passion does come out, which is great. But I would NEVER do this job for that kind of massive debt. You are asking the right questions that more applicants should be asking.

 

[jblil]

OP - It's enlightening how the non-trads (Azi, starrsgirl) recommend PA over PT. I'm a non-trad also and have had several careers before starting PT school. I was fortunate to live in a state that gives grants to folks going into medical professions so I didn't have to take on loans. The school I went to is 4 mi from my house, so I lived at home and didn't have to incur any extra room & board expenses. I am currently working in home-health for a large hospital system. The job could pay better... But on the flip side it offers good benefits, has very little stress and I have time to do other things on the side.

IMO you shouldn't borrow more than $40-$50K for PT school. I have classmates who graduated with $120K in loans... Scary. Build a spreadsheet like you did above and play with the numbers, whatever field you contemplate for a career. You may not like what you see and if so you can switch paths before getting too deep into any one profession.

You're still young (at least, compared to me ;-) ). If the tires track on my back could talk, they would advise you to develop multiple streams of income in your life. Just like in investing, diversification pays off.

 

[Gilakend]

Medicine certainly isn't like it used to be. I know surgeons that work 40 hours a week where as in the past that was completely unheard of. As an attending you can essentially choose how much you want to work (which obviously changes your pay). I, like you, was 100% worried about my lifestyle and my potential time for family/hobbies. Most physicians I shadowed were happy with their work life balance and very involved in their families lives. Those who weren't were usually residents, which is expected.

However, med school and residency still require a lot of sacrifice and if you could see yourself happy as a DPT or PA, 100% don't go to med school. Both are great career options. Just based off what you said and the my predicted future of the fields, I would say go PA. Not that DPT isn't great, but I think the role of PAs is only going to expand. You can't go wrong either way if you really are 50/50 between them, but again I would say PA. As these are very different though, I would imagine you lean one way or the other (I'm assuming towards DPT).

However, if you think you'd be much happier as a DPT, I would go that route. You'll make good money and shouldn't have an issue making the minimum payments on your student loans as others have said.

 

[EastSide]

@Azimuthal - Thanks so much for your response! Seem's like you are in a comfortable place in terms of finance. Q: how did you end up bringing in 84K right out of school? Was it HH, travel, or rural area?

@ya1 - same Q: how did you bring in +80K right out of school? Did you negotiate, was the area starved of PT, HH, travel, PRN?

@starrsgirl - hearing fellow PT's (with a good outlook on the field) advising to look elsewhere such as PA is always hard for me to read. Good thing that your GI Bill and state tuition helped on attaining your goal! Really do appreciate your answer & transparency.

@jblil - There is no way I can pay off 40-50K out of pocket if I take out only up to 50K in loans... Unfortunately & realistically, I would end up taking at LEAST 80K out. But yes, I am looking for other streams of income. Any suggestion from your experience? I am looking into ETF or mutual funds for Long Term savings. My role in the praise team & being a restaurant waiter brings in some income as well. Thinking on maybe getting into STOCK photography and sell some shots to make some bucks.

@Gilakend - thanks for your response. Actually, I am currently placed on the waitlist of a DO Med School program. So it is really encouraging to hear that the life of a doctor is becoming more manageable and enjoyable. And yes, the physician shortage on primary care is increasing as the years go by and this need will eventually be filled by PAs & NPs. So a massive job market growth for these mid-tier providers.

Thank you everyone else not mentioned above for your honest assessment and advice.

To update everyone, I am still rolling with the decision to attend to my accepted program.
If any advice or resources regarding paying off debt, scholarship, other streams of income, please do share - I am very grateful.

 

[Azimuthal]

@Azimuthal - Thanks so much for your response! Seem's like you are in a comfortable place in terms of finance. Q: how did you end up bringing in 84K right out of school? Was it HH, travel, or rural area?

I began with acute care in the SF Bay Area. If you factor in CoL, it was probably average. I also had an MBA which got me an extra $2/hr when I negotiated my starting wage.

 

[ya1]

@ya1 - same Q: how did you bring in +80K right out of school? Did you negotiate, was the area starved of PT, HH, travel, PRN?

I am in LA, so I wouldn't say it's starving for PTs. Found the job on Indeed within 2-3 weeks. My resume was not outstanding (just a newly grad with internship experiences). Applied to inpatient only. 2 hospitals offered $39-40/h (per diem), SNF offered $42-43/h (full time). Didn't negotiate anything. They usually ask expected salary, so I was saying something between 40-45/h.

 

[jblil]

@jblil - But yes, I am looking for other streams of income. Any suggestion from your experience? I am looking into ETF or mutual funds for Long Term savings. My role in the praise team & being a restaurant waiter brings in some income as well. Thinking on maybe getting into STOCK photography and sell some shots to make some bucks.

Other streams of income: it's always fun if you can make some money off your hobbies, which seems to be photography in your case. It'd be very hard to break into the stock photo market because your pictures will be lost among millions of others. In your shoes, I'd offer to shoot some baby pictures for free (I'm sure your friends have kids they'd like to have pictures of). If you're good, word-of-mouth will do the rest. Just be aware that it will be a slow process. When people begin asking for you by name, you can start charging them. Remember to get a model release if you want to use those pics on a website or another public avenue. BTW photography was one of my hobbies too: my first SLR was a manual Pentax Spotmatic; in the 1990s I had a fully-equipped darkroom in my basement where I'd process my own color film and print my color pictures. Would you like to buy a professional-grade Beseler 67 Dichroic enlarger for cheap?

Investing: stick with index funds from Vanguard or Fidelity and start as soon as you can. Depending on the year, my investments can result in capital gains and dividends that almost equal my PT salary (I started investing in 1984, when I got my first "real" job). If you have at least a 20-year horizon, the stock market is a fairly safe bet.

And remember that money isn't everything in life. As the old saying goes, "there are no luggage racks on hearses."

 

[1123grrf!]

As a PT, my starting salary was about 82K for 40 h/week. Student loan 100K. Minimum loan payment is below $600/month.

What State do you work in?

 

[ya1]

What State do you work in?

CA

 

[anondpt]

There are many DPTs who graduated with 120-200 plus in debt....

Right now some are making 65 in OP otho - PTAs in the same setting are making 50 with no debt.... and some DPTs are making 100k plus in home care, travel, prn etc... but you will ultimately be capped unless you have other streams of income or own your own clinic/business. As a practicing DPT - I will say that the degree is inflated and you will feel limited if your true passion is medicine- just search here to see the amount of DPTs/PTs that eventually went MD/DO or even PA. Tuition is not worth the DPT unless you keep it with what you posted and factor in cost of living etc.. which a lot of people forget to do(so the school they thought costs them 100k ends up being 200k) - and then you travel as medicare is making a lot of changes that may bring home health salaries down.

Do you see yourself being a DPT 10 years from now is what you need to answer for yourself? I have been practicing 2 years and making 100k a year in home care - will probably switch to travel next year as I apply to medical schools - but I do not see myself doing this long term and regret not going the medicine route- hence above. Also you will have more loan forgiveness options in the other fields.

 

[EastSide]

There are many DPTs who graduated with 120-200 plus in debt....

Right now some are making 65 in OP otho - PTAs in the same setting are making 50 with no debt.... and some DPTs are making 100k plus in home care, travel, prn etc... but you will ultimately be capped unless you have other streams of income or own your own clinic/business. As a practicing DPT - I will say that the degree is inflated and you will feel limited if your true passion is medicine- just search here to see the amount of DPTs/PTs that eventually went MD/DO or even PA. Tuition is not worth the DPT unless you keep it with what you posted and factor in cost of living etc.. which a lot of people forget to do(so the school they thought costs them 100k ends up being 200k) - and then you travel as medicare is making a lot of changes that may bring home health salaries down.

Do you see yourself being a DPT 10 years from now is what you need to answer for yourself? I have been practicing 2 years and making 100k a year in home care - will probably switch to travel next year as I apply to medical schools - but I do not see myself doing this long term and regret not going the medicine route- hence above. Also you will have more loan forgiveness options in the other fields.

Wow...
I have asked myself similar questions. The return is obviously quicker than med school, but comes at a cost = low pay & small ceiling.

Nonetheless, thanks for your honesty. Takes a lot of humility to admit things that you regret,
but it's very nice to hear that you are convinced and that you'll committing to the medical route.
Best of luck to you my friend.

 

[davidDPT3]

" Low pay, and small ceiling," is 100% correct.

I graduated in 2015 with 150k of debt, living in NYC first year in Outpatient Ortho I made 63k, second year was promoted to and assistant clinical director and made 70k (what a joke). Was working in a mill for experience. Got out of that after 2 years, loved outpatient ortho, and lucked out and scored a hybrid sort of position where I work outpatient ortho (only therapist in the clinic) 3 days per week, with 2 days of medicare part b in the home. Salary 5 years out is now 93k. Fast approaching my ceiling though, and I tried the mobile business stuff, not really my personality. I teach as a guest lecturer once per semester at a PTA program on hand/upper extremity. I love what I do, and picked it for more balanced lifestyle. But...being 32, thinking about supporting a family soon, and hind sight being 20-20, I need to work multiple gigs (bye bye balance and hobbies) to bring in more revenue. Considering taking multiple per diem gigs (usually pays a min of 60 per hour in NYC) to increase my salary, going onto my wife's insurance. I love my career most days, I do feel strongly limited by our scope of practice- because I thoroughly enjoy preventative care. Can't say I would have done things differently, but I am strongly considering the NP route. NP over PA for autonomy, and once you get your BSN, which can be done in one year vs two, you can do online programs to get to the NP/FNP cert.