Preventative and Occupational Medicine

[MO232]

Hello.

I am a current medical student interested in learning more about the fields of Preventative Medicine and Occupational Medicine.

Is there are current prev/occ med doc or resident that wouldn't mind answering some questions about their career and residency?

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[Sardonix]

Pretty sure Occupational Med is where dreams go to die. Now instead of being torn between pleasing the patient and insurance companies and your company you have to please the patient, insurance company, your boss, and the patient's company. I have never seen anyone happy to be in the occ med department.

 

[Osminog]

Pretty sure Occupational Med is where dreams go to die. Now instead of being torn between pleasing the patient and insurance companies and your company you have to please the patient, insurance company, your boss, and the patient's company. I have never seen anyone happy to be in the occ med department.

Occupational medicine has one of the lowest burnout rates and highest average job satisfaction ratings of any specialty.

 

[Solodyn]

Preventive Medicine/Occupational Medicine(PHPM) is a very diverse field. Most Occ Med Specialists do not actually staff the occupational medicine clinics; those are more likely to be GP/FP/locums. Physicians who are certified in OccMed or PHPM are mostly administrative in a wide variety of fields. Career paths are in the form of medical director for a large company, chart review for disability for insurance company, government officials, and many others. It is like an MPH on steroids with insta-cred. It is a way to be in medicine and not have to deal with the daily grind of patient care. The decisions made by PHPM and Occ Med may have great impacts on the rest of us clinicians in the form of reimbursement guidelines and clinical practice protocol. It is a whole new world of medicine for someone with an open mind.

 

[deleted1081396]

Preventive Medicine and Occupational Medicine is a very diverse field. Most Occ Med Specialists do not actually staff the occupational medicine clinics; those are more likely to be GP/FP/locums. Physicians who are certified in OccMed or PHPM are mostly administrative in a wide variety of fields. Career paths are in the form of medical director for a large company, chart review for disability for insurance company, government officials, and many others. It is like an MPH on steroids with insta-cred. It is a way to be in medicine and not have to deal with the daily grind of patient care. The decisions made by PHPM and Occ Med may have great impacts on the rest of us clinicians in the form of reimbursement guidelines and clinical practice protocol. It is a whole new world of medicine for someone with an open mind.

how do you even get into all that

 

[xffan624]

Hello.

I am a current medical student interested in learning more about the fields of Preventative Medicine and Occupational Medicine.

Is there are current prev/occ med doc or resident that wouldn't mind answering some questions about their career and residency?

Current PM resident finishing up this year. I'm happy as a clam as a resident, rotating at various state/federal public health agencies. Started my job search at the beginning of the year. I want to live in DC metro area, so mostly focusing on government jobs. What are your questions? I know a little about Occ Med as well.

 

[MedGrl@2022]

Current PM resident finishing up this year. I'm happy as a clam as a resident, rotating at various state/federal public health agencies. Started my job search at the beginning of the year. I want to live in DC metro area, so mostly focusing on government jobs. What are your questions? I know a little about Occ Med as well.

How did you get involved in PM? I am interested. I am an MS4 with an MPH degree who will be applying for this upcoming match cycle. Did you already complete a residency before doing PM or go straight into PM after medical school. I would like to learn more about the different routes into PM. I am mostly interested in learning about the most direct routes into PM.

Thank you

 

[xffan624]

How did you get involved in PM? I am interested. I am an MS4 with an MPH degree who will be applying for this upcoming match cycle. Did you already complete a residency before doing PM or go straight into PM after medical school. I would like to learn more about the different routes into PM. I am mostly interested in learning about the most direct routes into PM.

Thank you

I met a PM program director while I was in my pediatrics residency and decided to try for it after not liking the clinical medicine aspect of things and struggling a bit as well in my residency.

You only need one year of residency to qualify for PM residency but many people do finish another residency before going into it. Some of them realizing midway through that clinical medicine is not for them. With only intern year under your belt, your clinical options are relatively limited as the PM residency has pretty light clinical training. You can probably fortify a bit with your rotation choices but at that point you might as well just do an FM or IM residency.

The most direct route is pursuing a prelim year and applying for PM at the same time. I'm not quite sure exactly how that works as I didn't go through that process. I think most people apply during their full residency or intern year as those were all the applicants I interviewed for my PM program.

 

[Solodyn]

How did you get involved in PM? I am interested. I am an MS4 with an MPH degree who will be applying for this upcoming match cycle. Did you already complete a residency before doing PM or go straight into PM after medical school. I would like to learn more about the different routes into PM. I am mostly interested in learning about the most direct routes into PM.

Thank you

If I remember correctly, with an MPH, you shave one year off your PHPM training. One year of the PHPM residency is to obtain the MPH degree that you already have. So you will need one prelim/intership year and one year of residency and then you are an attending.

 

[Cherbourg]

If I remember correctly, with an MPH, you shave one year off your PHPM training. One year of the PHPM residency is to obtain the MPH degree that you already have. So you will need one prelim/intership year and one year of residency and then you are an attending.

From what I've seen, programs don't shave off a year. They usually still ask you to take a few classes as a non-degree student and then give you a lot more elective time.

 

[ilovePHandMD]

If you are interested in going into a Preventive Medicine Residency can you apply to programs as an MS4 or do you have to wait until your intern year? If you have to wait until your intern year to apply, do you only apply to transitional and pre-lim programs? Or can you apply to other residencies (aka Family Medicine, Pediatrics, IM) and then just apply to a Preventive Medicine Residency during the intern year of those programs? (Wouldn't that create a loss of a PGY2 for the residency program, if they had a resident leave after intern year?)

 

[hallowmann]

If you are interested in going into a Preventive Medicine Residency can you apply to programs as an MS4 or do you have to wait until your intern year? If you have to wait until your intern year to apply, do you only apply to transitional and pre-lim programs? Or can you apply to other residencies (aka Family Medicine, Pediatrics, IM) and then just apply to a Preventive Medicine Residency during the intern year of those programs? (Wouldn't that create a loss of a PGY2 for the residency program, if they had a resident leave after intern year?)

Most people who start a categorical residency are not planning to do preventative medicine or occupational medicine. They often decide during training that they don't like it, then switch. If you know from the beginning that's what you want, then I would do an intern year (pre-lim or TY).

As for applying, I believe most apply during intern year, but I would reach out to programs directly. Some/many don't participate in the match and I wouldn't be surprised if some took people a year ahead.

 

[MissRibeye]

Current PM resident finishing up this year. I'm happy as a clam as a resident, rotating at various state/federal public health agencies. Started my job search at the beginning of the year. I want to live in DC metro area, so mostly focusing on government jobs. What are your questions? I know a little about Occ Med as well.

If someone is really interested in the preventive side of medicine but doesn't always agree with the standard recommendations from the government (cough-food pyramid-cough, amongst many other things) would that person be really unhappy in this field? What does your day-to-day look like?

 

[ilovePHandMD]

If someone is really interested in the preventive side of medicine but doesn't always agree with the standard recommendations from the government (cough-food pyramid-cough, amongst many other things) would that person be really unhappy in this field? What does your day-to-day look like?

My understanding is that during your Preventive Medicine Residency years you would take courses at the local school of public health and then do practicum work in various public health agencies which (I think) can range depending on your institution's location/access. I am only a Medical Student. I am also looking for more mentorship and guidance as I am interested in applying to Preventive Medicine Residency programs. I appreciate anyone with experience or helpful information.

 

[ilovePHandMD]

I met a PM program director while I was in my pediatrics residency and decided to try for it after not liking the clinical medicine aspect of things and struggling a bit as well in my residency.

You only need one year of residency to qualify for PM residency but many people do finish another residency before going into it. Some of them realizing midway through that clinical medicine is not for them. With only intern year under your belt, your clinical options are relatively limited as the PM residency has pretty light clinical training. You can probably fortify a bit with your rotation choices but at that point you might as well just do an FM or IM residency.

The most direct route is pursuing a prelim year and applying for PM at the same time. I'm not quite sure exactly how that works as I didn't go through that process. I think most people apply during their full residency or intern year as those were all the applicants I interviewed for my PM program.

Did you end up completing your pediatrics residency before applying to and starting the Preventive Medicine Residency program? Additionally, how did you decide on which Preventive Medicine Residencies to apply to? I think that there are only 70 programs in the United States. Did you find that certain programs were stronger or had different characteristics than others? Did you have to reach out to a lot of programs to ask questions about their programs? I would love to hear if you have any advice/suggestions on applying to Preventive Medicine Residency programs.

Thank you in advance!

 

[xffan624]

Did you end up completing your pediatrics residency before applying to and starting the Preventive Medicine Residency program? Additionally, how did you decide on which Preventive Medicine Residencies to apply to? I think that there are only 70 programs in the United States. Did you find that certain programs were stronger or had different characteristics than others? Did you have to reach out to a lot of programs to ask questions about their programs? I would love to hear if you have any advice/suggestions on applying to Preventive Medicine Residency programs.

Thank you in advance!

I didn't finish peds. I only applied to one as it was at the same hospital program and it was late in the cycle decision. I was very lucky to get accepted. I can't really speak for other programs but obviously not every program is created equal but they all will result in board certification. Like most non-competitive residencies the main focus should be fit. How does a program fit your career goals and is the program somewhere you want to live? One thing to keep in mind is as it is not a traditional residency in some ways, then not every program will compensate their residents the same. Mine didn't have this problem but I heard of other programs where the residents were expected to moonlight to make up the gap in their salary. For the right program this might be worth it for you, but I would be aware of this before starting.

You start by visiting the ACPM site for more information on the residency programs and the standardized application process (similar to the match but a separate application from ERAS).

 

[xffan624]

If someone is really interested in the preventive side of medicine but doesn't always agree with the standard recommendations from the government (cough-food pyramid-cough, amongst many other things) would that person be really unhappy in this field? What does your day-to-day look like?

Just like most specialties there is room for variation, but you will be tested on your board exam on standard USPTF recommendations for screening, etc.. There are also a variety of jobs and of course, jobs that don't require you to be a government shill. If you're an anti-vaxxer then please go get your ND instead.

P.S. If you're going to criticize a specific government recommendation you might update yourself on what the actual recommendations are which no longer include the food pyramid (as of 10 years ago).

 

[MissRibeye]

Just like most specialties there is room for variation, but you will be tested on your board exam on standard USPTF recommendations for screening, etc.. There are also a variety of jobs and of course, jobs that don't require you to be a government shill. If you're an anti-vaxxer then please go get your ND instead.

P.S. If you're going to criticize a specific government recommendation you might update yourself on what the actual recommendations are which no longer include the food pyramid (as of 10 years ago).

Cool. I'm not an anti-vaxxer and I was using the food pyramid as an example.

 

[ilovePHandMD]

I didn't finish peds. I only applied to one as it was at the same hospital program and it was late in the cycle decision. I was very lucky to get accepted. I can't really speak for other programs but obviously not every program is created equal but they all will result in board certification. Like most non-competitive residencies the main focus should be fit. How does a program fit your career goals and is the program somewhere you want to live? One thing to keep in mind is as it is not a traditional residency in some ways, then not every program will compensate their residents the same. Mine didn't have this problem but I heard of other programs where the residents were expected to moonlight to make up the gap in their salary. For the right program this might be worth it for you, but I would be aware of this before starting.

You start by visiting the ACPM site for more information on the residency programs and the standardized application process (similar to the match but a separate application from ERAS).

How does medical licensure work if you only do 1 year of clinical residency then persue a preventive medical residency? Can you obtain a medical license with only 1 year of clinical residency if you then start a Preventive Medicine Residency program? I am under the impression that you need two years of clinical medical residency. However, I could be wrong. I am still a medical student.

 

[xffan624]

How does medical licensure work if you only do 1 year of clinical residency then persue a preventive medical residency? Can you obtain a medical license with only 1 year of clinical residency if you then start a Preventive Medicine Residency program? I am under the impression that you need two years of clinical medical residency. However, I could be wrong. I am still a medical student.

PM residency time counts toward licensure so it doesn't matter if you only have one year from another residency. I believe some states require one year and some require two years, but you should be able to obtain a license regardless of that as you will fulfill the years with the PM residency.

 

[ilovePHandMD]

PM residency time counts toward licensure so it doesn't matter if you only have one year from another residency. I believe some states require one year and some require two years, but you should be able to obtain a license regardless of that as you will fulfill the years with the PM residency.

Thank you so much for all of your help. May I ask how did you frame your personal statement for the Preventive Medicine program? I am trying to find examples. However, I have not found any. (Is the personal statement similar to applying for another medical residency? For example, starting off with an interesting story, or is it more about just explaining why you would like to go into a Preventive Medicine program?)

I think that am planning to apply to a combined Family Medicine/Preventive Medicine and some Transitional Year-->Preventive Medicine Programs (as well as Family Medicine programs). I really appreciate all your help. It has been challenging to find mentorship at my medical school for Preventive Medicine programs.

Also, do you know what you want to do post-residency? What are the hours like on your current rotations, is it like working a normal 40/hour work week?

 

[xffan624]

Thank you so much for all of your help. May I ask how did you frame your personal statement for the Preventive Medicine program? I am trying to find examples. However, I have not found any. (Is the personal statement similar to applying for another medical residency? For example, starting off with an interesting story, or is it more about just explaining why you would like to go into a Preventive Medicine program?)

I think that am planning to apply to a combined Family Medicine/Preventive Medicine and some Transitional Year-->Preventive Medicine Programs (as well as Family Medicine programs). I really appreciate all your help. It has been challenging to find mentorship at my medical school for Preventive Medicine programs.

Also, do you know what you want to do post-residency? What are the hours like on your current rotations, is it like working a normal 40/hour work week?

Your personal statement for PM should be like any personal statement for residency. Who are you and why do you want to do PM? Within that should be selling points for why they should match you to their program.

As far as the PM program in general, I can only speak for my own program, but the first year was mostly MPH classes with clinic weekly and short rotations during class breaks. While nothing is usually scheduled on the weekends, the MPH coursework is modified for the PM program so it can be a decent amount of work and require some time on the weekends especially near the end of the semesters. During the second year, you are mostly rotating at various agencies. As my time was during COVID most of these were remote, but that's not always the case. It's generally like a 9-5 job, but if they were remote, you had some flexibility with your time as long you completed assigned projects and attending whatever meetings you needed to.

I am finished with residency now, currently unemployed, but I have pending offer from a federal agency that is going through the federal hiring process (which is pretty slow).

 

[Nevergiveupok]

Aware of a MD who started their own private practice Preventative Medicine clinic. Very non-traditional vs a normal FM/IM office. By the sounds of it sounds more like a "quack" shop tbh (she hated medical school apparently and a majority of her classmates). Works like 30-35 hours a week and is super happy making according to her brother, 150-200K after overhead (lower than normal but working essentially part time and able to pick up her kids at school after their sports/activities).

 

[MissRibeye]

Aware of a MD who started their own private practice Preventative Medicine clinic. Very non-traditional vs a normal FM/IM office. By the sounds of it sounds more like a "quack" shop tbh (she hated medical school apparently and a majority of her classmates). Works like 30-35 hours a week and is super happy making according to her brother, 150-200K after overhead (lower than normal but working essentially part time and able to pick up her kids at school after their sports/activities).

What training did she do residency-wise?

 

[Nevergiveupok]

What training did she do residency-wise?

Occupational medicine residency with a MPH. I don't know her personally or know attendings who are aware of her (all I know is she did some out there residency with a MPH degree as per her brother). Runs a super niche practice.

 

[MissRibeye]

Occupational medicine residency with a MPH. I don't know her personally or know attendings who are aware of her (all I know is she did some out there residency with a MPH degree as per her brother). Runs a super niche practice.

Interesting. What about her practice sounds like quackery?

 

[Nevergiveupok]

Interesting. What about her practice sounds like quackery?

Hard to explain, it's been awhile since I spoke with her sibilng but she despised how little PCPs tried to ween their patients off medications who had morbidities that can be vastly improved with lifestyle choices. A lot of it sounded like she's an optimistic MPH holder who focuses on nutrition/positive affirmation than actual clinical medicine.

 

[ilovePHandMD]

Hard to explain, it's been awhile since I spoke with her sibilng but she despised how little PCPs tried to ween their patients off medications who had morbidities that can be vastly improved with lifestyle choices. A lot of it sounded like she's an optimistic MPH holder who focuses on nutrition/positive affirmation than actual clinical medicine.

I am not 100% sure but it sounds like she practices Lifestyle Medicine Home Sounds like an interesting field especially for patients who prefer not to take any medications.

 

[VeggieMed]

Hard to explain, it's been awhile since I spoke with her sibilng but she despised how little PCPs tried to ween their patients off medications who had morbidities that can be vastly improved with lifestyle choices. A lot of it sounded like she's an optimistic MPH holder who focuses on nutrition/positive affirmation than actual clinical medicine.

Sounds like how every primary care provider should be thinking. Far too many patients are comfortable with remaining on medications for the rest of their lives and many doctors are normalizing those thoughts.

 

[robotvascular]

I have a family member who did a Preventive Med residency. She now works in the Pharma industry and does well. Lots of jobs in the industry are at least partial WFH. Entry level pay starts in the 200-300s and goes up significantly once you factor in bonuses/benefits and moving up the corporate ladder. Very jealous!

 

[rickmoranis]

I have a family member who did a Preventive Med residency. She now works in the Pharma industry and does well. Lots of jobs in the industry are at least partial WFH. Entry level pay starts in the 200-300s and goes up significantly once you factor in bonuses/benefits and moving up the corporate ladder. Very jealous!

Do you know if she was able to go straight into pharma with her PM background, or did she have to get any additional certification to make her marketable for industry jobs?
Thanks for any insight!