RANT HERE thread

[battie]

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I’ve had at least 3 convos on Reddit since Monday with students saying they’d rather go into more debt than go to Michigan state.

Laughs in my anxious state who has decided to finally start aggressively paying down my loans

People just struggle being patient and waiting to see what happens.

People just struggle without immediate satisfaction

Responding to myself (lol) but I guess the only way to ensure this wouldn't happen to you would be to take out private loans first, then move to federal loans for your last 1-2 years or so

I wondering if this would be allowed. 🤔 That's a great thought tbh

As much as I hate the BBB changes, it is going to force people to face the reality and find a solution earlier in the process.

Like. I look at it as the tough love approach. Poorly done. But I think inevitable.

My old man dog had a little mass (2.37mm) removed right before I had the baby because it was giving me an icky feeling. It came back as an aggressive amelanotic cutaneous melanoma. So now I get to take him to medical oncology for staging +/- the melanoma GD3 vaccine with a newborn baby. Financially this is going to be rough. But I rescued this dog when I was 18, he is otherwise healthy besides some well controlled OA, and he is very special to me so I think it’s worth it.

I'd do it too 🧡

 

[SkiOtter]

The person on the APVMA Facebook asking how much you got paid for working during clinical rotations sent me

 

[overcastkidjuno]

Man, I could not imagine how destroyed I'd be if I made it 2-3 years through vet school only to then realize that I couldn't get a private loan to finish it out. And with how much personal/family circumstances could change in a short 1-2 years, and private loans needing a cosigner (at least mine did)....

I overheard the other day that there are some American students currently at AVC who now may not be able to finish the program due to the changes in US loan administrations. I feel so bad because the majority of our American students come from the northeastern states without their own vet school and I was told because of that, coming international to AVC was still the cheapest possible option. 🙁

My tuition is 8k a semester CAD (~6k USD) due to being subsidised by my provincial government (international students pay approximately 42k a semester CAD / 30k USD). However, this is also the reason I was only allowed to apply to one school (not permitted to apply to any of the other 4 Canadian vet schools, as their seats are also subsidised for their provincial residents). Some provinces also have mandatory service requirements upon graduation, usually only 2-3 years though. I know we have quite different governance systems and it's easy for me to speculate when I have no real understanding of how this would work, but I often wonder about the viability of this being implemented in the US even on like an individual state-scale, because it would change the quality of life of US vet students and veterinarians so significantly.

 

[pp9]

The person on the APVMA Facebook asking how much you got paid for working during clinical rotations sent me

Oh yeah maybe this is what I saw?! It was something like that, someone had to inform the OP that you still paid tuition for clinics lol.

Again, why are people putting such minimal amounts of time/effort into this? Like you really didn't know that you paid tuition for your clinical year?

 

[_rae_]

I know we have quite different governance systems and it's easy for me to speculate when I have no real understanding of how this would work, but I often wonder about the viability of this being implemented in the US even on like an individual state-scale, because it would change the quality of life of US vet students and veterinarians so significantly

I think, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, that Texas Tech ONLY accepts Texas or New Mexico residents, but it's the only school to do so. Texas A&M also has seats for residents but takes out of staters.

I think the issue is the sheer volume of students we have. In 2019, the AVMA reported that the US had ~13,300 students studying veterinary medicine at the time. As of 2020, the US had almost ten times the population of Canada. I think strictly as a numbers game, it'd be a difficult thing to achieve.

 

[overcastkidjuno]

the AVMA reported that the US had ~13,300 students studying veterinary medicine at the time. As of 2020, the US had almost ten times the population of Canada. I think strictly as a numbers game, it'd be a difficult thing to achieve.

True, very good point about the numbers making it hard. I checked online and it says there are 1800 current Canadian veterinary students. I just did a quick calculation and for the US to subsidise all those students yearly to the same degree as we are it would cost the country a total of approximately 452 million dollars. 😭

 

[battie]

but I often wonder about the viability of this being implemented in the US even on like an individual state-scale, because it would change the quality of life of US vet students and veterinarians so significantly.

There is the cultural aspect to of the government being able to tell you what you can and can't do. That, in general, is the core reason a lot of things aren't subsidized in the same way. Much, if not a majority, of the population (regardless of political affiliation) doesn't feel like the government can tell you where you go to school and what you can learn. Many countries that subsidize things like education put their thumb on the scale to control costs. That would never fly here.

I just did a quick calculation and for the US to subsidise all those students yearly to the same degree as we are it would cost the country a total of approximately 452 million dollars. 😭

That's probably a gross under estimate. I'm getting in the realm of 4 billion dollars for 13,300 students for their full education over 4 years, assuming half are in state (200k) vs out of state (400k), when you factor in cost of living and interest. So around 1 billion a year.

And then if you subsidize veterinary education, you bet your subsidizing a lot of other degrees too. Then we're talking about a lot of money for the education of the populace.

 

[_rae_]

And then if you subsidize veterinary education, you bet your subsidizing a lot of other degrees too.

I tooK oUT loANs FOr My colLEGe and PaiD theM BacK No PROblEm You'RE jUSt LAzY

 

[pp9]

I tooK oUT loANs FOr My colLEGe and PaiD theM BacK No PROblEm You'RE jUSt LAzY

And it's always coming from someone that graduated in 1970 with $8.50 in debt. or someone who just took a few classes or has an associate's at best lol

 

[battie]

I tooK oUT loANs FOr My colLEGe and PaiD theM BacK No PROblEm You'RE jUSt LAzY

My big thing is 1) how to pay for them and 2) who gets to decide which students get to do which degree.

Thankfully I've never personally met someone with that mentality. But I also feel that if this is a responsibility a government our size and scope is going to take on, ROI of those degrees will be heavily considered.

A cousin of mine went to a ritzy art college in New York City. Her bachelor's cost the same as my doctorate. There chances 100% of her class get a positive ROI from a pure financial sense is slim. She currently makes 30/hr in a framing store while entering galary shows.

I'm not saying that the intrinsic worth of things like art and lit aren't worthwhile for the human condition. My avatar is an oil painting I did myself of a childhood dog. But, if this large of a government is going to follow through on education, there will not be 200k+ art schools. Or if there are, it will be a select group of students chosen as the best of the best because they are the most likely to get that extrinsic ROI for their art.

Not sure if the US is ready or even capable of that

 

[ESD_2029]

it would cost the country a total of approximately 452 million dollars. 😭

They'd rather use that money to play idiot Battleship with real lives at stake than invest in education, healthcare, or anything to better the country.

 

[_rae_]

idiot Battleship

This almost made me laugh out loud in the middle of class

My big thing is 1) how to pay for them and 2) who gets to decide which students get to do which degree.

Thankfully I've never personally met someone with that mentality. But I also feel that if this is a responsibility a government our size and scope is going to take on, ROI of those degrees will be heavily considered.

A cousin of mine went to a ritzy art college in New York City. Her bachelor's cost the same as my doctorate. There chances 100% of her class get a positive ROI from a pure financial sense is slim. She currently makes 30/hr in a framing store while entering galary shows.

I'm not saying that the intrinsic worth of things like art and lit aren't worthwhile for the human condition. My avatar is an oil painting I did myself of a childhood dog. But, if this large of a government is going to follow through on education, there will not be 200k+ art schools. Or if there are, it will be a select group of students chosen as the best of the best because they are the most likely to get that extrinsic ROI for their art.

Not sure if the US is ready or even capable of that

I was mostly just being a *******. But idk, I keep hearing the argument that they "don't want to fund dumb degrees like gender studies" whereas I felt my women's and gender studies classes taught me the most about argumentative writing and critical reading. I also know that you know (and tend to agree with) my feelings about the cost of education and why it is where it is.

 

[_rae_]

I CAN SAY ASS BUT I CAN'T SAY ******* RUDE

 

[battie]

This almost made me laugh out loud in the middle of class

I was mostly just being a *******. But idk, I keep hearing the argument that they "don't want to fund dumb degrees like gender studies" whereas I felt my women's and gender studies classes taught me the most about argumentative writing and critical reading. I also know that you know (and tend to agree with) my feelings about the cost of education and why it is where it is.

What did you call yourself?!

That's why I think it would be hard to deliver at a large scale. Unfortunately, it's easy to prove benefit on an individual basis, but difficult at large scale. Especially more nuanced things like critical reading and writing at an advanced level. My client communication skills (overwhelmingly my best doc quality) is from working retail and doing clubs. I didn't get my people skills from classes. I also used to argue on Facebook a lot 😅🤣

It's a hard puzzle. To be fair, what needs to happen to fix the checkbook for our country will/should not include subsidized higher education. But that's a whole other problem

 

[kitzsuna]

I think, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, that Texas Tech ONLY accepts Texas or New Mexico residents, but it's the only school to do so. Texas A&M also has seats for residents but takes out of staters.

I think the issue is the sheer volume of students we have. In 2019, the AVMA reported that the US had ~13,300 students studying veterinary medicine at the time. As of 2020, the US had almost ten times the population of Canada. I think strictly as a numbers game, it'd be a difficult thing to achieve.

Yeah texas has a dumb law where at minimum seats have to be 90% Texas residents. They can choose to do more than that from what I understand which kinda makes OOS SOL :/

 

[kitzsuna]

My da

And it's always coming from someone that graduated in 1970 with $8.50 in debt. or someone who just took a few classes or has an associate's at best lol

my Dad (who was born in 1950) was telling me how he paid for his tuition while working…it was like $2000 a year 😭

Genuinely if he wasn’t very financially savvy and set us all up for success Iikely wouldnt be able to do vet school. Having parents that financially support you (even partially) is a HUGE privilege and I wish more people acknowledged it

 

[_rae_]

What did you call yourself?!

A SYNONYM FOR A STUPID BUTT

 

[kitzsuna]

This almost made me laugh out loud in the middle of class

I was mostly just being a *******. But idk, I keep hearing the argument that they "don't want to fund dumb degrees like gender studies" whereas I felt my women's and gender studies classes taught me the most about argumentative writing and critical reading. I also know that you know (and tend to agree with) my feelings about the cost of education and why it is where it is.

Thats why they are defunding them…gotta have idiots that are unable to do anything or think for themselves.

 

[supershorty]

A SYNONYM FOR A STUPID BUTT

And yet, we have an asshat emoji.

 

[_rae_]

And yet, we have an asshat emoji.

I feel I am being discriminated for my curse word choices why is asshat allowed?????

 

[battie]

Yeah texas has a dumb law where at minimum seats have to be 90% Texas residents. They can choose to do more than that from what I understand which kinda makes OOS SOL :/

I don't know if Texas's law is the problem. Back in 2016, TAMU had the lowest veterinary school debt of its graduates squarely because of this law. The only new school I support is TT because they only provide seats for in state cost. If more states did this and had programs to support vet students (either their own school or contract seats or removing medical schools from private and/or for profit institutions), we may not be in this position right now

 

[_rae_]

My hot take is New England needs more than just Tufts. There are SO many people seeking specialty care and driving hours to Boston, Yonkers, Cornell, etc. The market could support it I think. And we have a decent bit of dairies/production facilities.

 

[vampyrica]

My hot take is New England needs more than just Tufts. There are SO many people seeking specialty care and driving hours to Boston, Yonkers, Cornell, etc. The market could support it I think. And we have a decent bit of dairies/production facilities.

Yale school of veterinary medicine. That'll be $80,000 a year please!
(in all seriousness, i agree that NE is the only region lacking an additional school)

 

[vampyrica]

honestly, maybe vermont? idk what the ag industry looks like up there tho.

 

[supershorty]

honestly, maybe vermont? idk what the ag industry looks like up there tho.

They at least have enough dairy for Vermont cheddar mac n cheese to be a thing.

A good thing.
Mmmm cheddar.

 

[vampyrica]

They at least have enough dairy for Vermont cheddar mac n cheese to be a thing.

A good thing.
Mmmm cheddar.

University of Vermont School of Veterinary Medicine
50% VE residents, 25% contract seats with RI & ME, and 25% OOS
Class size for inaugural class: 70
End goal: 100

Boom. Imma open my own school somewhere

 

[vampyrica]

with an interest in large animal and production medicine. mmm cows

 

[oweue]

IS barley means anything when your IS is Tufts, basically no discount and not many reserved in state seats

 

[_rae_]

They at least have enough dairy for Vermont cheddar mac n cheese to be a thing.

A good thing.
Mmmm cheddar.

My classmate’s dad did something for Cabot. So. Much. Free. Cheese.

University of Vermont School of Veterinary Medicine
50% VE residents, 25% contract seats with RI & ME, and 25% OOS
Class size for inaugural class: 70
End goal: 100

Boom. Imma open my own school somewhere

I’m okay with this!

 

[_rae_]

Also Vermont is a lot of small and big-small farms and not a lot of corporate so they def need the support!

 

[_rae_]

I’m okay with this!

Mostly because it’s effs over NH and CT, the objectively worse NE states

 

[pp9]

Also Vermont is a lot of small and big-small farms and not a lot of corporate so they def need the support!

Most importantly, Vermont has an amazing 'fall colors' season.

 

[vampyrica]

okay so if every single person on this website donates $5, i will open a school in vermont. raise your hand if you wanna be the dean. raise your hand if you wanna be in charge of the cirriculum. raise your hand if you want your name on a fancy plaque on the walkway into the building.

 

[CeeGee14]

raise your hand if you want your name on a fancy plaque on the walkway into the building.

I'll take you up on this one. Screw being the dean or building the curriculum. I want to do nothing and still get recognition

 

[ali9280]

Feeling so frustrated with a certain organization and their rep at our school who are actively trying to shut down the large animal terminal surgery elective at our school. It is circling social media now too *sigh*

 

[vampyrica]

Feeling so frustrated with a certain organization and their rep at our school who are actively trying to shut down the large animal terminal surgery elective at our school. It is circling social media now too *sigh*

.......words.....i have words.

 

[vampyrica]

I'll take you up on this one. Screw being the dean or building the curriculum. I want to do nothing and still get recognition

$5 and the plaque is yours

 

[pp9]

Feeling so frustrated with a certain organization and their rep at our school who are actively trying to shut down the large animal terminal surgery elective at our school. It is circling social media now too *sigh*

I JUST saw this. Was tempted to comment about how I wish I could have had the opportunity to do terminal surgeries while I was in vet school, but I'm so out of steam when it comes to shouting into the social media void.

Edit: Also extra layer of disappointment because the person that is behind the post that I saw (basically calling for people to contact the school) is a vet.

raise your hand if you wanna be in charge of the curriculum.

I'll do it, but I might need to split the workload. @battie you in?

 

[vampyrica]

Edit: Also extra layer of disappointment because the person that is behind the post that I saw (basically calling for people to contact the school) is a vet.

i think...im gonna dm you

 

[pp9]

i think...im gonna dm you

 

[mkg323]

Yale school of veterinary medicine. That'll be $80,000 a year please!
(in all seriousness, i agree that NE is the only region lacking an additional school)

You kid about Yale but I’m pretty sure Harvard and Columbia both had vet schools, and I’m sure there were more in New England way back in the day (and it’s unfortunate no one wants to correct this). I think what caused a lot of northeastern vet schools to close in the early 1900s was that the universities ended up being in developing cities and it was no longer feasible to have the large animal aspect in the city. It’s around that time that Penn moved its large animal stuff out to the Bolton estate and then built “New” Bolton Center, the modern hospital in 1952, which helped it survive Philadelphia’s growth and be one of the few vet schools with a campus and (small animal) hospital in the heart of a major metropolitan city. So I guess TBD on a school that would have the location, infrastructure and actually want to eat the cost of setting up a new school in New England.

 

[mkg323]

University of Vermont School of Veterinary Medicine
50% VE residents, 25% contract seats with RI & ME, and 25% OOS
Class size for inaugural class: 70
End goal: 100

Boom. Imma open my own school somewhere

Oop ok we’re making our own? I’m in!

 

[vampyrica]

now i wonder if someone is gonna google "vet school in vermont" and this thread will pop-up

 

[battie]

My hot take is New England needs more than just Tufts. There are SO many people seeking specialty care and driving hours to Boston, Yonkers, Cornell, etc. The market could support it I think. And we have a decent bit of dairies/production facilities.

It has the population to support both clients and students. I'm down.

Yale school of veterinary medicine. That'll be $80,000 a year please!
(in all seriousness, i agree that NE is the only region lacking an additional school)

I think one more out west. Not saying that the empty plains we have needs a vet school in each state lacking one. But New Mexico is a good example of a place needing the care

okay so if every single person on this website donates $5, i will open a school in vermont. raise your hand if you wanna be the dean. raise your hand if you wanna be in charge of the cirriculum. raise your hand if you want your name on a fancy plaque on the walkway into the building.

I'm in. I'll take whatever position.

 

[supershorty]

okay so if every single person on this website donates $5, i will open a school in vermont. raise your hand if you wanna be the dean. raise your hand if you wanna be in charge of the cirriculum. raise your hand if you want your name on a fancy plaque on the walkway into the building.

Can I be the chancellor of cheese

 

[vampyrica]

Can I be the chancellor of cheese

consider it done!

 

[JaynaAli]

Dibs on vice chancellor of cheese

That sounds like even less work, so that’s better than being the big cheese

 

[_rae_]

The thing about opening a vet school in Vermont is you all have to be okay with the fact that Vermonters call soft serve “creemees”

 

[vampyrica]

this is so silly hehe, but hey if anyone from vermont wants to propose a school at UV, feel free to propose that model 😉 our RI friends need options!

 

[vampyrica]

Dibs on vice chancellor of cheese

That sounds like even less work, so that’s better than being the big cheese

chancellor and vice chancellor of cheese positions have been now been filled. annual salary of $1,300,000 USD.