RANT HERE thread

[that redhead]

Hopefully a chat with the boss will clear things up for you. Would she be receptive to you mentioning how you feel like you're not trusted and that you feel you're being babied despite being an experienced vet?

My gut says that she would be surprised I felt that way. I think that would unfortunately be followed by defensiveness. The conversation needs to be had but I’m negative-capable of standing up for myself and always have been. Ugh!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DVMDream]

My gut says that she would be surprised I felt that way. I think that would unfortunately be followed by defensiveness. The conversation needs to be had but I’m negative-capable of standing up for myself and always have been. Ugh!

Yeah, I am horrible about it too. Honestly only staying in vet med to get my loans paid off then I might abandon ship really fast. I've gotten to the point I have just settled for the least evil I can find, putting my head down, getting my job done each day, making the money I need. I try to not rock the boat too much, though I have SO much I want to say.

Maybe I will explode one day and tell everyone to feck off. Who knows.

Maybe baby steps first start with recovering from stupid effing covid. (Can't covid die in a fire aleady?). Then start with talking about the day off you need. Then give it time to let things settle and get back to some sense of "normalcy" (at least covid normalcy) and then if she is still treating you like that, try approaching it then, but like slowly, with small examples. Maybe start with one thing that makes you think she doesn't trust you or makes you feel like she is hovering "babying" you and say "hey I noticed you tend to do this, is there something I am doing that concerns you? Do I need to change something?" Start from a baby step position and then slowly work into discussing the bigger issue. That is, if you want to address it, if you can live with it, then sometimes it is just not worth rocking the boat.

 

[KCgophervet]

So I got COVID again and had to trade my on-call weekend with my boss, giving her three in a row. Before that, I had asked if I could have off the weekends of the 22/23 (my birthday is that Monday) and the 29/30 (working at my SAGP job). I texted my boss today that I was planning to take the on-call for 22/23 in addition to this coming weekend but said I still can't do the 29/30. She texted me back to let her know if I will be back Wednesday from COVID and that she has me on the next three in a row.

I acknowledge it sucks that she had to do three in a row. However, it's not my fault I got COVID and was told I couldn't do the on-call for the weekend (which wouldn't necessarily require me to go in). I feel like I'm being punished and that my clearly-stated-continued-unavailability for the third weekend was just ignored, which is straight rude. I have such a tough time with her in general - she is very mercurial and while I have learned a ton from her, her unpredictability is really hard for me to manage. It's clear to me that she doesn't trust my judgement and she treats me more like a baby vet than someone who has been doing medicine and surgery for almost 7 years now. I'm not the only one she treats like this, but I'm the only other vet and it's tough to feel like we're both doctors but that she's somehow better than me.

I'm not going to text her back about the weekend; it'll be better to have the conversation in person I hope. I'll offer to do three in a row after that weekend, not a problem (despite it being my kids' birthday) but I'm just frustrated.

Is it just the two of you splitting on call? Is it possible to hire a contract relief vet to just help with on call things? If you have any lab animal residencies in your region I'm sure a resident would love to pick up some extra cash if its an option. I'm sorry btw, that sucks.

 

[taylorsavesthebees]

Looks like I'm about to finish out my second round of applications without a single interview invite, once again I know for a fact that I truly shine in interviews, but it seems that no one wants to give me a chance, much less even take a look at my app-- and I've never felt so discouraged in my life.

 

[battie]

Looks like I'm about to finish out my second round of applications without a single interview invite, once again I know for a fact that I truly shine in interviews, but it seems that no one wants to give me a chance, much less even take a look at my app-- and I've never felt so discouraged in my life.

I'm sorry. It really does suck to spend the time and money not just in applications, but un classes and ECs not to get the love.

Have you thought about posting in the WAMC sub forum?

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

Looks like I'm about to finish out my second round of applications without a single interview invite, once again I know for a fact that I truly shine in interviews, but it seems that no one wants to give me a chance, much less even take a look at my app-- and I've never felt so discouraged in my life.

It took me three tries to get into vet school. Every year I worked on weak areas of my application and eventually got in. As battie said there is another place where you can post your app and have essentially a file review done by the community.

 

[SkiOtter]

I would also definitely do as many file reviews as you can with whichever schools you applied to that will do them.

 

[honeypot999]

I’m really tired of vet schools giving little to no communication about applications. It really turns me off to them and when they do send emails it’s telling us not to worry that there is still time.

 

[SkiOtter]

I’m really tired of vet schools giving little to no communication about applications. It really turns me off to them and when they do send emails it’s telling us not to worry that there is still time.

To be fair, most schools get upwards of 2000 applications per cycle. At Illinois, it’s faculty initially reading through your app. During times when they’re not teaching us that day. They aren’t trying to make the process slow. They’re just busy.

 

[WildZoo]

Exactly. Most vet schools don't have dedicated adcoms who can focus the entirety of their time and energy on applications. The same administrators handling communication with applicants are also running the school. The faculty are teaching, doing research, on clinics, etc. Trust me, they aren't intentionally being withholding. There is a ton of work that goes into processing applications and it takes a lot of time. Most aren't going to reach out to you during every step of the process, but if you want an update most schools have a contact person who you can reach out to for that.

 

[KCgophervet]

Had a sore throat progressing to productive cough and some other mild signs since Tuesday. Had a PCR test done Wednesday then but at home antigen tests kept coming up negative so I kept going in to work. I knew deep down I shouldn't have but we are so insanely short I felt like I couldn't or I would let people down. I tried to stay away from people as much as possible while I was in and always wear a mask.

Yesterday afternoon my results came back. Positive. I've been infecting people at work for 3 days or more. What's worse though is my kids, both too young to be vaccinated and the infant has a heart condition (repaired VSD but some concerning things on echo that means he's still closely monitored).

Well today the infant has a fever. And rapid breathing. So triage nurse line said go to the ER so I had to send him with my husband and I'm low key panicking because I just have memories of a visit becoming a hospitalization but now I wouldn't even be able to go see him because I'm positive and symptomatic. So I'm just trying to breathe and letting the toddler's new birthday tablet do the childcare for me and feel like just an awful person.

I hate this pandemic.

 

[WildZoo]

My thoughts are with you @KCgophervet, I hope your little one does well and is able to come home quickly. I cannot even imagine the stress and worry you're feeling right now. Sending hugs <3

 

[SkiOtter]

Sending all the love and good vibes, KC💜

 

[battie]

Much love KC!! Let us know what you need. If there's anything we can send we'll figure it out. <3

 

[supershorty]

@KCgophervet if y'all need any groceries dropped off or stuff like that, LMK! ❤️

 

[awesomenessity]

Board exam is in mid-March, so I decided to take a practice exam. Got a whopping 62% At least there's still time to cram more stuff into my brain LOL

 

[KCgophervet]

Update: he's home with presumed COVID, though the rapid test they did was negative. Echo looked ok and fever finally came down a little with a high dose of ibuprofen. Now just to manage symptoms and hope he doesn't get any worse or have long term side effects. Thanks all. I think if it had been my first I wouldn't have been so scared about this but I still get extra nervous with this one since his surprise hospital stay and open heart surgery at just 6 weeks old. I appreciate all your thoughts and everything.

 

[JaynaAli]

Board exam is in mid-March, so I decided to take a practice exam. Got a whopping 62% At least there's still time to cram more stuff into my brain LOL

Passing is a 64 so you’re golden lol.

 

[JaynaAli]

Sorry you’re dealing with all that KC but glad the doctors think babyKC is doing okay. You’re a good mom. ❤️

 

[kaydubs]

Thinking of you and your family and sending good vibes, KC!

 

[Neigh'sAnatomy]

Looks like I'm about to finish out my second round of applications without a single interview invite, once again I know for a fact that I truly shine in interviews, but it seems that no one wants to give me a chance, much less even take a look at my app-- and I've never felt so discouraged in my life.

I'm so sorry Taylor ;(... I understand the stress you are feeling. This is my second application cycle also. If there is anything I have learned through this process it's that both poor and EXCELLENT applicants get rejected. Just because someone gets a rejection letter it doesn't mean that they didn't have what it takes. If anything I think applicants are better because of it! They know what it's like to experience tough rejection, and instead of quitting they take a step back and say, "HECK NO, I DESERVE THIS AND I'M GOING TO FIGHT FOR IT"! It's gut wrenching how the application process can feel so impersonal. We pour our entire hearts and souls into vet med; sit on the floor of hospitals with patients way past closing; get kicked, bit, and peed on; study until our brains melt out of our ears; beg the down horse to fight; work in the middle of a freezing paddock in the pouring rain; sit with the frightened dog. We do all of this and more because we love it, and we wouldn't change what we do for the world. We care for the patients as if they were our own.... and all of this just for people we've never met to send us a 250 character email saying, "Thanks but no thanks"?! The board can look at an applicant on paper, but they don't get to see the blood, sweat, and tears that go in behind the scenes. But I promise promise promise you that the people who do see all that are your family, friends, coworkers, the clients, and their animals; and that I would argue is what matters most. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't do something because I would be willing to bet that if acceptance letters were sent on passion and dedication alone ... you would get one from every school in the world. Hang in there (Dr.) Taylor, we've got this!

 

[Minnerbelle]

Goddam inflation! Heating cost $700 last month for our house, and groceries have been $300/week… I mean we do buy mostly fresh produce and protein and that ****’s expensive… but this is essentially for just two adults and a toddler!

 

[MixedAnimals77]

Goddam inflation! Heating cost $700 last month for our house, and groceries have been $300/week… I mean we do buy mostly fresh produce and protein and that ****’s expensive… but this is essentially for just two adults and a toddler!

Literally our grocery bill has doubled but my husband still makes the same amount. Its insane...

 

[Jess Monster]

I’m comfortable with my pay working for a corporate practice right now but, damn, dealing with some of these clients is getting exhausting. Most of the problem clients are the walk-ins that we’ve never seen before and who never have enough money, even when we waive the exam fee.

The most recent one filed a complaint with corporate today that’s highly amusing where it sounds like she called and asked if we could send someone to her house on their lunch break today to treat her pet. Of course we don’t do that, so it was yet another thing for her to be upset about. I’m really glad that I put in thorough notes about my interaction with this person. I‘m not at all surprised by the complaint. She made it clear that anything different than what she wanted was not going to be satisfactory… and you can imagine her attitude when I informed her that her pet was crawling with fleas.

 

[battie]

I’m really glad that I put in thorough notes about my interaction with this person.

The most important thing I learned from working for the government: you can never over report but it is always possible to under report. Good for you on protecting yourself from crazy.

 

[honeypot999]

Today hasn't even started and I've already overthought everything. I've been accepted to SGU and Ross, and I'm waiting to see if I'll even be extended an interview invite at LMU. I can't help but be unable to shake the feeling that I was/will never [be] smart enough or good enough to go to school in the US as more time passes. I absolutely love SGU's program but the idea of being so far away from my family scares me. I just am struggling to cope right now with my impending graduation and having to do things all over again

 

[deleted989551]

Today hasn't even started and I've already overthought everything. I've been accepted to SGU and Ross, and I'm waiting to see if I'll even be extended an interview invite at LMU. I can't help but be unable to shake the feeling that I was/will never [be] smart enough or good enough to go to school in the US as more time passes. I absolutely love SGU's program but the idea of being so far away from my family scares me. I just am struggling to cope right now with my impending graduation and having to do things all over again

I empathize with you so much!! This is my first app cycle and it has been so much harder/emotional/exhausting than I could have imagined. I'm praying for you right now that you hear good news from lmu soon 🙏 I'm stalking the forum because my very good friend is also waiting for them. I think the general consensus is that they are just very behind and will send out more soon. If not, I'm friends with one of the teachers at sgu and she loves it there.

 

[MixedAnimals77]

The lie of all call holdings "an agent will be with you shortly"...

 

[katiemcat]

I’m comfortable with my pay working for a corporate practice right now but, damn, dealing with some of these clients is getting exhausting. Most of the problem clients are the walk-ins that we’ve never seen before and who never have enough money, even when we waive the exam fee.

The most recent one filed a complaint with corporate today that’s highly amusing where it sounds like she called and asked if we could send someone to her house on their lunch break today to treat her pet. Of course we don’t do that, so it was yet another thing for her to be upset about. I’m really glad that I put in thorough notes about my interaction with this person. I‘m not at all surprised by the complaint. She made it clear that anything different than what she wanted was not going to be satisfactory… and you can imagine her attitude when I informed her that her pet was crawling with fleas.

This reminds me of when I used to work for banfield…. They would just let clients lay into us and reward them for their bad behavior to pacify them…. It’s so disheartening

 

[that redhead]

The lie of all call holdings "an agent will be with you shortly"...

According to a quirky girl I work with “time is just an illusion anyway”…

 

[WildZoo]

According to a quirky girl I work with “time is just an illusion anyway”…

It's a construct!!!

 

[battie]

According to a quirky girl I work with “time is just an illusion anyway”…

It's a construct!!!

This is what I tell myself when clients complain about my wait time while I run ER 🤣

 

[finnickthedog]

The past couple months with my now fiance have probably been the happiest I've ever been in my life. And I'm really sad that in a couple weeks I have to go back to video calls and text messages. Trying not to let the knowledge he's leaving soon dampen the rest of our trip but it's hard.

 

[abbielovescats]

Got another vet school rejection today and then got ghosted by a guy I was gonna go out with today. Haven’t hung out with a guy in like a year so I was excited so double whammy today 🙃

 

[deleted989551]

Got another vet school rejection today and then got ghosted by a guy I was gonna go out with today. Haven’t hung out with a guy in like a year so I was excited so double whammy today 🙃

Based on my own and others I have read about, I have come to the conclusion that there is no rhyme or reason to rejections. They seem to be almost random. Please don't stress over trying to determine why you were not chosen. I do not know you, but I am still entirely confident that you were an excellent choice.

(In case this helps you, I have a PhD, MS, and 2 BS degrees, a postdoc, 4 article publications, 3 software publications, and a wide range of vet experience. However, Cornell and UF rejected me so far, and I am bracing myself for more. I have stopped trying to reason why I was rejected.)

Also, clearly that guy was an idiot. If you are intelligent, compassionate, kindhearted, and dedicated enough to want to be a veterinarian, then clearly he is missing out. This might be a blessing in disguise you know

Don't lose hope. My very good vet friend told me that I will love whichever school I attend because I will be learning how to do what I love to do and I will be surrounded by soul mates

 

[abbielovescats]

Based on my own and others I have read about, I have come to the conclusion that there is no rhyme or reason to rejections. They seem to be almost random. Please don't stress over trying to determine why you were not chosen. I do not know you, but I am still entirely confident that you were an excellent choice.

(In case this helps you, I have a PhD, MS, and 2 BS degrees, a postdoc, 4 article publications, 3 software publications, and a wide range of vet experience. However, Cornell and UF rejected me so far, and I am bracing myself for more. I have stopped trying to reason why I was rejected.)

Also, clearly that guy was an idiot. If you are intelligent, compassionate, kindhearted, and dedicated enough to want to be a veterinarian, then clearly he is missing out. This might be a blessing in disguise you know

Don't lose hope. My very good vet friend told me that I will love whichever school I attend because I will be learning how to do what I love to do and I will be surrounded by soul mates

Thank you, I appreciate it. I wish you luck as well!☺️

 

[that redhead]

@finnickthedog I remember that LDR life from when I was in vet school. It is tough. Hang in there. I hope you have an end in sight.

 

[finnickthedog]

@finnickthedog I remember that LDR life from when I was in vet school. It is tough. Hang in there. I hope you have an end in sight.

Sort of have an end in sight. At least a rough estimate. But it all depends on the the government at this point. We are hanging in there but it's tough indeed.

 

[kyuiruwu]

This reminds me of when I used to work for banfield…. They would just let clients lay into us and reward them for their bad behavior to pacify them…. It’s so disheartening

Just one of the reasons I quit Banfield.....no one ever did anything when clients pretty much verbally abused us or worse. So much better now at a small private clinic where we don't take any of that ****

 

[SkiOtter]

Just one of the reasons I quit Banfield.....no one ever did anything when clients pretty much verbally abused us or worse. So much better now at a small private clinic where we don't take any of that ****

One of the questions I asked when looking for a DVM job is whether they are willing to fire clients or not and if they’ve ever had to. I asked the second part because they can say “oh yeah totally” but actually following through and doing it is a different story.

 

[katiemcat]

One of the questions I asked when looking for a DVM job is whether they are willing to fire clients or not and if they’ve ever had to. I asked the second part because they can say “oh yeah totally” but actually following through and doing it is a different story.

They would let people actually curse us out and threaten us and then give them what they want (free meds/services, to be seen immediately, etc.) I got sick of it really fast. Never mind the understaffing and blatant disregard for ethics.

 

[SkiOtter]

They would let people actually curse us out and threaten us and then give them what they want (free meds/services, to be seen immediately, etc.) I got sick of it really fast. Never mind the understaffing and blatant disregard for ethics.

That’s exactly the kind of place I did not want to end up. I’m glad you no longer work there and hope you’re at a better clinic.

 

[Lisagk]

Dear veterinary SDN community,

UW-Madison SVM has implemented a new policy that in light of their hospital short staffing issues, that they are going to force fourth year students into making up for this labor shortage through more unpaid work. This policy would essentially extend the work day to up to 16 hours and the work week to up to 70 hours. Again, this is all uncompensated labor. Fourth year students are already working 7 days a week.
Please sign this petition in solidarity to preserve the veterinary student work-life balance and well-being to repeal this expoitative policy. These are our future doctors! We need to be part of the change for a better vet culture and future. The petition is being presented to administration today but will still be collecting signatures of support. The petition has already gathered nearly 500 signatures!

To read more extent about the petition and to add your signature of support, please follow this link here: 8pm Treatment Petition

Thank you!

 

[DVMDream]

Dear veterinary SDN community,

UW-Madison SVM has implemented a new policy that in light of their hospital short staffing issues, that they are going to force fourth year students into making up for this labor shortage through more unpaid work. This policy would essentially extend the work day to up to 16 hours and the work week to up to 70 hours. Again, this is all uncompensated labor. Fourth year students are already working 7 days a week.
Please sign this petition in solidarity to preserve the veterinary student work-life balance and well-being to repeal this expoitative policy. These are our future doctors! We need to be part of the change for a better vet culture and future. The petition is being presented to administration today but will still be collecting signatures of support. The petition has already gathered nearly 500 signatures!

To read more extent about the petition and to add your signature of support, please follow this link here: 8pm Treatment Petition

Thank you!

I'd need more information to sign a petition. We were required to do AM and PM treatments for our inpatient cases while I was in school, I feel like that was true of most vet schools. I'd go home if I had time, then go back in to do treatments, rarely took longer than 20ish minutes then straight back home. So need more information on what exactly the change is, what impact it has, etc, etc.

 

[JaynaAli]

Yeah, I hope things work out for y’all and wish you the best, but I went to a school where you had to do your 8 am and 8 pm treatments yourself and it was fine. I’m not saying that just because I had to do that y’all should too, but rather to show that while it’s not ideal it wasn’t a huge issue. Most days we had plenty of time to run home and eat and let dogs out and come back between 5 pm rounds and 8 pm treatments. Sometimes we’d just stay at school prepping for the next day or studying for NAVLE or whatever during that break, but the opportunity was there to go home and come back. It was just accepted. I guess my thoughts are that while it would be great if the school could hire more people so y’all wouldn’t have to do these treatments, the field is in crisis right now staffing and caseload wise. Without being there, I’m sure the school is like everywhere else and tried to hire and has been unsuccessful…I doubt they’d make this choice without considering all options. But if there’s no staff to care for patients what is the alternative? Accept less appointments and/or close the ER because the staff are too busy and have less cases to go around and learn from? Someone has to step up. It’s unfortunate to be in this situation and I totally get why y’all are frustrated to have more duties added on (I mean we all know how fourth year calls feel like unpaid labor I totally understand), it’s not that surprising to me and I don’t see a lot of other options honestly. I’d be interested to hear if y’all have a proposal for an alternate solution? Anyway, just my thoughts. Best of luck with your petition.

 

[Lisagk]

Hi! These are valid feedback. In response, I've asked a current fourth year on their opinions to the feedback who sent me responses from other students and alumni who elaborated on it more. I'm currently a second year so I don't know exactly what the fourth year schedule is like, but after hearing what they have to go through, as is, and the toll it takes on them, I don't think that adding on these responsibilities for "learning experiences" is good for mental or emotional well-being. We just had a town hall meeting about this at the school and there are student hourlies who are current vet students who work down there for 8PM treatments and also brought up a great point that the school has students who want to work there and help who aren't 4th years but they are not being hired. One vet student brought up how they are constantly having to stay late in the hospital and aren't let out at 5PM when they said they would be -- some having to stay until 11PM to come back at 5AM the next morning. Attached are screenshot responses to those who also brought up similar feedback. I hope this helps! If after all this, you still don't support the petition, that is fine and you are of course entitled to your opinions. Not forcing anyone to sign anything. Just if you did support the students fighting back against this policy, would love your support

 

[SkiOtter]

Me crying at up to a 70 hour work week when our rule is up to 160 hours every 2 weeks 🥲

 

[SkiOtter]

We also recently extended our ER shifts from 7-4 and 3-12a to add a third shift ~11p-7:15a🥲🥲🥲🥲
Supposedly “for the benefit of our learning” except there often are 0 patients coming in overnight. And we all know it’s because overnight there is 1 rotating intern and 0 techs at the moment. Often times if there IS something that comes in, ICU gives up a tech and/or the overnight ECC resident comes over and plays tech if it isn’t a 1 person job.

 

[WildZoo]

I signed if only because it seems like students did not get a chance to voice their concerns or contribute to the decision making before it was sprung on them, and I think they should get that chance. If nothing else, from reading the email and the petition it looks like a lot of the structure around this is pretty vague and should be clarified.

To me it doesn't matter if there are other schools that have similar policies, or have in the past. Certainly I had rotations where I was in the hospital 14 hours a day every weekday and sometimes has weekend shifts too or was called in overnight and still had to do a full shift the next day. I lived. That doesn't mean it was the right way to do things. People talk about that being the reality when you're working as a vet too, but it doesn't have to be, and you have some amount of choice there, so it's different. It seems this school didn't have things structured that way, and the system they had worked, and people were getting paid to do this work. It didn't seem, in their envisioning of their curriculum, necessary for 4th year students to perform those duties as part of their education. Replacing what was a paid position with free student labor doesn't sit right with me to be perfectly honest. I am absolutely positive there are students who would be willing to do those treatments for compensation - and it seems like those already exist, so why aren't they being utilized?

And yes, as many hospitals have, they may need to consider restricting caseload if they can't handle it without overtaxing students and staff. That's the reality of the field right now.

 

[IvyMoose]

I’m out of my league here (pre-vet student), but as someone having been put in positions that asked more of workers and having been asked to do so within a month and providing no extra compensation, I do think UW should provide some sort of compensation for those doing late treatment. I can’t imagine anyone thinking that the solution to labor shortage is using students, who pay to attend the university, to cover shifts that they were not expected to do before. Further, from what it sounds like, it seems that only some, not all, students on rotation will do late treatments, which doesn’t seem right either. Just my two cents.

P.S. in my case, we had a petitions signed from employees and ex-employees to compensate us for management’s increased demands, and it worked. Don’t give up hope if you truly feel it is unfair.