Receiving mediocre/subpar evaluations in rotations you don't care about

[rifle4802]

I'm a pre-med who'll be in medical school by Fall 2016 and I wanted to get a better understanding of the way evaluations work for 3rd year clerkships and residency.

Here's the lowdown on me - I'm looking for minimal patient contact (Pathology or Radiology would be ideal) and an easy ass lifestyle (Family Medicine and Psychiatry would qualify as well). I plan on working part time and making 90-120K per year. Obviously FM and Psychiatry have patient contact, but I'm ok with that if Pathology and Radiology don't work out.

Since I'm already dead set on only 3-4 potential specialties (2 of which are very easy to match into) does it matter what I do in the rotations for specialties I don't care about? As an example, if I don't give a rat's arse about surgery or obstetrics/gynecology and if I make a bad impression/step on several toes in a surgery or obstetrics/gynecology rotation, would this have any effect on my chances of matching into a totally unrelated specialty (pathology, FM, radiology, psychiatry)? Basically, how much influence do people in one specialty have on your chances of matching into a totally separate specialty is my question.

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[Awesome Sauceome]

wow

 

[stlrams22]

I'm a pre-med who'll be in medical school by Fall 2016 and I wanted to get a better understanding of the way evaluations work for 3rd year clerkships and residency.

Here's the lowdown on me - I'm looking for minimal patient contact (Pathology or Radiology would be ideal) and an easy ass lifestyle (Family Medicine and Psychiatry would qualify as well). I plan on working part time and making 90-120K per year. Obviously FM and Psychiatry have patient contact, but I'm ok with that if Pathology and Radiology don't work out.

Since I'm already dead set on only 3-4 potential specialties (2 of which are very easy to match into) does it matter what I do in the rotations for specialties I don't care about? As an example, if I don't give a rat's arse about surgery or obstetrics/gynecology and if I make a bad impression/step on several toes in a surgery or obstetrics/gynecology rotation, would this have any effect on my chances of matching into a totally unrelated specialty (pathology, FM, radiology, psychiatry)? Basically, how much influence do people in one specialty have on your chances of matching into a totally separate specialty is my question.

Are you serious? If you can't figure this one out by yourself than you will struggle with mcat questions that require critical thinking.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

I am not even worried about him figuring out the answer to his question. I am worried about the question. Like a phoenix Streampaw is born again....

 

[cmz]

I'm a pre-med who'll be in medical school by Fall 2016 and I wanted to get a better understanding of the way evaluations work for 3rd year clerkships and residency.

Here's the lowdown on me - I'm looking for minimal patient contact (Pathology or Radiology would be ideal) and an easy ass lifestyle (Family Medicine and Psychiatry would qualify as well). I plan on working part time and making 90-120K per year. Obviously FM and Psychiatry have patient contact, but I'm ok with that if Pathology and Radiology don't work out.

Since I'm already dead set on only 3-4 potential specialties (2 of which are very easy to match into) does it matter what I do in the rotations for specialties I don't care about? As an example, if I don't give a rat's arse about surgery or obstetrics/gynecology and if I make a bad impression/step on several toes in a surgery or obstetrics/gynecology rotation, would this have any effect on my chances of matching into a totally unrelated specialty (pathology, FM, radiology, psychiatry)? Basically, how much influence do people in one specialty have on your chances of matching into a totally separate specialty is my question.

I hope you end up in pathology. After 4 years of medical school and 4 in residency, I would recommend you maybe do 2-3 fellowships. Please also try to also max out your student loans, too (even if you don't need them).

 

[Arkangeloid]

While the OP is probably a troll, I'm in medical school and this is also a question I was wondering about. I don't care about Surgery and have no aspirations to ever go into a surgical specialty, so is it ok if I get a marginal score in that rotation?

 

[Daodejing]

this is exemplifying type A personality to the fullest. A for Annoying and "Arse"-like.

 

[cmz]

While the OP is probably a troll, I'm in medical school and this is also a question I was wondering about. I don't care about Surgery and have no aspirations to ever go into a surgical specialty, so is it ok if I get a marginal score in that rotation?

As long as you don't care to end up in a competative specialty. However, I would strongly recommend that you perform to the best of your ability. If you don't perform well... you'll know that you at least gave it your best shot. After all, not everyone honors the rotation.

I guess what I'm wondering is... you're not looking for an excuse to slack off, right?

 

[Arkangeloid]

As long as you don't care to end up in a competative specialty. However, I would strongly recommend that you perform to the best of your ability. If you don't perform well... you'll know that you at least gave it your best shot. After all, not everyone honors the rotation.

I guess what I'm wondering is... you're not looking for an excuse to slack off, right?

I'll give it my all. I just want to know what the consequences of failure are.

 

[rifle4802]

Are you serious? If you can't figure this one out by yourself than you will struggle with mcat questions that require critical thinking.

What does this have anything to do with MCAT critical thinking questions? I have no clue how much influence an attending surgeon I'd need to shadow during 3rd year would have on my chances of matching into any non-surgery residency. I assume none at all, but I figured medical students who've already completed 3rd year would be more qualified to answer.

 

[rifle4802]

While the OP is probably a troll, I'm in medical school and this is also a question I was wondering about. I don't care about Surgery and have no aspirations to ever go into a surgical specialty, so is it ok if I get a marginal score in that rotation?

Not at all trolling, but this is exactly my situation. There is not a specialty I care less about being competitive for than surgery or any of its subspecialties. I simply want nothing to do with it and am thus wondering if it matters how I do in a surgery rotation.

 

[Nasrudin]

I'll give it my all. I just want to know what the consequences of failure are.

The consequences of failing a rotation are horrible. As is someone saying you suck on your MSPE.

Coasting strategically and passing a rotation is fine. But you have to responsible to your team and be likable to your team leaders at all times. It amazes me when a colleague fails to grasp this and blows off the supervising physicians.

Doing this even more than once can make you less likely to match. Which is catastrophic.

As for the OP.......just focus on passing anatomy for now.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

.

As for the OP.......just focus on passing anatomy for now.

Check that OP again...he won't be in Anatomy for quite a while. You're not even talking to a "Medical Student (Accepted)".

 

[WillburCobb]

Looks like rifle got bored with the pre-allo forum. I'm predicting a thread about cheating in med school will be soon to follow.

 

[boogaloo]

As an example, if I don't give a rat's arse about surgery or obstetrics/gynecology and if I make a bad impression/step on several toes in a surgery or obstetrics/gynecology rotation, would this have any effect on my chances of matching into a totally unrelated specialty (pathology, FM, radiology, psychiatry)? Basically, how much influence do people in one specialty have on your chances of matching into a totally separate specialty is my question.

They can fail you, and they can write mean comments that are read by program directors. I have a classmate who is the worst medical student I've ever worked with. Perpetually late, literally stinks, doesn't dress in clinic attire half of the time, doesn't know anything, disappears at random times, etc. They've made it this far in the year, so apparently it's not enough to warrant getting kicked out (yet). I don't know about the evals. I can't imagine them being very good, but the classmate is still walking around somewhere and is most likely going to be a doctor. In my experience, the people who are looking to barely scrape by are the worst people to work with, so there's that. I hope you do well on Step, buddy.

 

[Nasrudin]

They can fail you, and they can write mean comments that are read by program directors. I have a classmate who is the worst medical student I've ever worked with. Perpetually late, literally stinks, doesn't dress in clinic attire half of the time, doesn't know anything, disappears at random times, etc. They've made it this far in the year, so apparently it's not enough to warrant getting kicked out (yet). I don't know about the evals. I can't imagine them being very good, but the classmate is still walking around somewhere and is most likely going to be a doctor. In my experience, the people who are looking to barely scrape by are the worst people to work with, so there's that. I hope you do well on Step, buddy.

Watch to see where that dude matches. You can't walk around like that and expect good things in the match. If you're disgusted by that then you're likely in good shape.

 

[Nasrudin]

Check that OP again...he won't be in Anatomy for quite a while. You're not even talking to a "Medical Student (Accepted)".

Wow....you're right. Check out the nuts on this guy.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

I'm a pre-med who'll be in medical school by Fall 2016

 

[rifle4802]

They can fail you, and they can write mean comments that are read by program directors. I have a classmate who is the worst medical student I've ever worked with. Perpetually late, literally stinks, doesn't dress in clinic attire half of the time, doesn't know anything, disappears at random times, etc. They've made it this far in the year, so apparently it's not enough to warrant getting kicked out (yet). I don't know about the evals. I can't imagine them being very good, but the classmate is still walking around somewhere and is most likely going to be a doctor. In my experience, the people who are looking to barely scrape by are the worst people to work with, so there's that. I hope you do well on Step, buddy.

I don't care if they fail me on surgery or ob/gyn as long as it doesn't weaken my chances at other specialties. Can anyone actually answer my question?

Also, how big of a difference should there be in your performance to receive a subpar evaluation instead of failing?

Can a 240+ Step 1 with crap evaluations in surgery and ob/gyn still match into radiology, pathology, etc?

 

[penguinism]

Why in the world are you worried about rotations when you're still (at least) 4 years away from that?

I know people that failed (and remediated) or low-passed surgery and still matched into their chosen fields. You just shouldn't approach the rotation with the goal to do the bare minimum.

Good luck getting into medical school with that attitude.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I don't care if they fail me on surgery or ob/gyn as long as it doesn't weaken my chances at other specialties. Can anyone actually answer my question?

Also, how big of a difference should there be in your performance to receive a subpar evaluation instead of failing?

Can a 240+ Step 1 with crap evaluations in surgery and ob/gyn still match into radiology, pathology, etc?

That is the answer to your question. A failure on ANY clinical rotation will be a major red flag and will hurt your residency chances.

 

[rifle4802]

I know people that failed (and remediated) or low-passed surgery and still matched into their chosen fields.

Thank you. That is all I wanted to know and needed to hear. That's what I thought myself, but I just wanted to make sure.

Would be pretty dumb if your performance in a rotation you have no interest in affected your shot at specialties you actually care about.

 

[rifle4802]

That is the answer to your question. A failure on ANY clinical rotation will be a major red flag and will hurt your residency chances.

Failure maybe, but what about below average evaluation? Like if I felt like leaving early some days and using sick days if I didn't feel like coming in on occasion, that's not fair grounds for a failure, right? Sounds more like a below average evaluation.

 

[Nasrudin]

Thank you. That is all I wanted to know and needed to hear. That's what I thought myself, but I just wanted to make sure.

Would be pretty dumb if your performance in a rotation you have no interest in affected your shot at specialties you actually care about.

You're talking all kinds of stupid. Failing a rotation means you repeat it. Failing again means you're out on your @ss.
You don't like surgery....have a another 2 months at it while under the gun to pass the shelf again.

Failing in medical school is bad news. Planning your strategy on how to fail as a premed means you're not a real person and have wasted a few moments of my life describing the extent of your stupidity.

 

[rifle4802]

You're talking all kinds of stupid. Failing a rotation means you repeat it. Failing again means you're out on your @ss.
You don't like surgery....have a another 2 months at it while under the gun to pass the shelf again.

Failing in medical school is bad news. Planning your strategy on how to fail as a premed means you're not a real person and have wasted a few moments of my life describing the extent of your stupidity.

Not failing. I'm talking about low-passing, evaluations with modest praise, etc. Either completely mediocre or even below average evaluations. I can put in sub-maximal effort in a surgery rotation and still get an acceptable evaluation like this. Then I can go balls out for the rotations that actually matter to me (IM, FM, psychiatry) and still be competitive for specialties I actually want to match into.

 

[Nasrudin]

Not failing. I'm talking about low-passing, evaluations with modest praise, etc. Either completely mediocre or even below average evaluations. I can put in sub-maximal effort in a surgery rotation and still get an acceptable evaluation like this. Then I can go balls out for the rotations that actually matter to me (IM, FM, psychiatry) and still be competitive for specialties I actually want to match into.

Look here fella. Have a talk with a few people in the year ahead of you when you're done with step 1. Until then...you're a nonfactor.

 

[DermViser]

I'm a pre-med who'll be in medical school by Fall 2016 and I wanted to get a better understanding of the way evaluations work for 3rd year clerkships and residency.

Here's the lowdown on me - I'm looking for minimal patient contact (Pathology or Radiology would be ideal) and an easy ass lifestyle (Family Medicine and Psychiatry would qualify as well). I plan on working part time and making 90-120K per year. Obviously FM and Psychiatry have patient contact, but I'm ok with that if Pathology and Radiology don't work out.

Since I'm already dead set on only 3-4 potential specialties (2 of which are very easy to match into) does it matter what I do in the rotations for specialties I don't care about? As an example, if I don't give a rat's arse about surgery or obstetrics/gynecology and if I make a bad impression/step on several toes in a surgery or obstetrics/gynecology rotation, would this have any effect on my chances of matching into a totally unrelated specialty (pathology, FM, radiology, psychiatry)? Basically, how much influence do people in one specialty have on your chances of matching into a totally separate specialty is my question.

So after trolling the Pre-Allopathic Forum (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-are-your-thoughts-on-cheating-on-an-exam.1063376/) you're now set on trolling the Allopathic forums?

 

[DermViser]

Are you serious? If you can't figure this one out by yourself than you will struggle with mcat questions that require critical thinking.

He thinks his GPA and his ACT score (no joke) are predictors of his success. He hasn't even taken the MCAT yet.

 

[DermViser]

What does this have anything to do with MCAT critical thinking questions? I have no clue how much influence an attending surgeon I'd need to shadow during 3rd year would have on my chances of matching into any non-surgery residency. I assume none at all, but I figured medical students who've already completed 3rd year would be more qualified to answer.

If you think that during MS-3, what you are doing is "shadowing", then you will never have to worry about the possibility of ever getting Honors.

 

[DrCharlemagne]

Will this be the one? The thread that leads to the banhammer?

OP, the bare minimum is hauling ass. Remember the thread you started on touching disgusting patients during your volunteer experience? That's the bare minimum.

 

[WillburCobb]

So after trolling the Pre-Allopathic Forum (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-are-your-thoughts-on-cheating-on-an-exam.1063376/) you're now set on trolling the Allopathic forums?

He's had several similar threads in pre-allo over the past several weeks. His whole trolling premiss is about just doing the least amount of work possible or things that are "questionably" ethical to sneak by. A few people bite and then a flame war ensues. Half assed trolling imho.

 

[Nasrudin]

He's had several similar threads in pre-allo over the past several weeks. His whole trolling premiss is about just doing the least amount of work possible or things that are "questionably" ethical to sneak by. A few people bite and then a flame war ensues. Half assed trolling imho.

How do we get rid of them...just report the posts?

 

[DermViser]

He's had several similar threads in pre-allo over the past several weeks. His whole trolling premiss is about just doing the least amount of work possible or things that are "questionably" ethical to sneak by. A few people bite and then a flame war ensues. Half assed trolling imho.

What's funny is he thinks that in medical school he can pull one over on everyone else. He actually thinks he can get into a good specialty (I'm assuming lifestyle is his goal), by getting crap evaluations and grades on his clinical rotations, and just by acing the first 2 years, and USMLE Step 1. He thinks he knows more than people who have been doing this for years, and know EVERY trick in the book that medical students pull.

 

[DermViser]

I'll give it my all. I just want to know what the consequences of failure are.

And that will help you how?

 

[DrCharlemagne]

What's funny is he thinks that in medical school he can pull one over on everyone else. He actually thinks he can get into a good specialty (I'm assuming lifestyle is his goal), by getting crap evaluations and grades on his clinical rotations, and just by acing the first 2 years, and USMLE Step 1. He thinks he knows more than people who have been doing this for years, and know EVERY trick in the book that medical students pull.

If by lifestyle you mean day-long gaming binges, then yes.

 

[rifle4802]

So after trolling the Pre-Allopathic Forum (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-are-your-thoughts-on-cheating-on-an-exam.1063376/) you're now set on trolling the Allopathic forums?

Some of you guys need to simmer down. Asking a question out of genuine curiosity is not trolling.

I don't respect surgery because the hours are a joke in my opinion, both in rotations and during residency. That's why I have absolutely zero interest in pursuing it as my specialty when the time comes. So I was curious to know if it would matter at all whether I put in the same effort in surgery (something I don't care about) as I do in IM, FM, and psychiatry (specialties I do care about).

 

[WillburCobb]

How do we get rid of them...just report the posts?

Yup

 

[WillburCobb]

Some of you guys need to simmer down. Asking a question out of genuine curiosity is not trolling.

But intentionally starting half-assed flame wars is. Like I've said before, if you're going to do it, do it right.

 

[DermViser]

Some of you guys need to simmer down. Asking a question out of genuine curiosity is not trolling.

I don't respect surgery because the hours are a joke in my opinion, both in rotations and during residency. That's why I have absolutely zero interest in pursuing it as my specialty when the time comes. So I was curious to know if it would matter at all whether I put in the same effort in surgery (something I don't care about) as I do in IM, FM, and psychiatry (specialties I do care about).

Let's see your other trolling threads shall we?

Easy to find part time job after residency?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/easy-to-find-part-time-job-after-residency.1058984/

Is patient exposure necessary during clinical volunteering?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...cessary-during-clinical-volunteering.1061182/

What are your thoughts on cheating on an exam?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-are-your-thoughts-on-cheating-on-an-exam.1063376/

By the way, the specialties you "care about" aren't the good lifestyle specialties you think they are.

 

[DermViser]

What does this have anything to do with MCAT critical thinking questions? I have no clue how much influence an attending surgeon I'd need to shadow during 3rd year would have on my chances of matching into any non-surgery residency. I assume none at all, but I figured medical students who've already completed 3rd year would be more qualified to answer.

You seem to have no clue in general.

 

[rifle4802]

But intentionally starting half-assed flame wars is. Like I've said before, if you're going to do it, do it right.

Yeah, go ahead and report me for asking questions about my future career that I want to know the answers to. Last I checked, that was never against forum rules.

I'd appreciate it if people who can substantively contribute to my topic post here from now on.

 

[DermViser]

He's had several similar threads in pre-allo over the past several weeks. His whole trolling premiss is about just doing the least amount of work possible or things that are "questionably" ethical to sneak by. A few people bite and then a flame war ensues. Half assed trolling imho.

He seems to think he's the first medical school genius to try to think this way and game his way to a competitive (i.e. good lifestyle) specialty.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

It's the latest incarnation of stream paw. Not coincidentally the trolling posts have popped up at the same time as the first blog update in a month.

 

[rifle4802]

Let's see your other trolling threads shall we?

Easy to find part time job after residency?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/easy-to-find-part-time-job-after-residency.1058984/

Is patient exposure necessary during clinical volunteering?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...cessary-during-clinical-volunteering.1061182/

What are your thoughts on cheating on an exam?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-are-your-thoughts-on-cheating-on-an-exam.1063376/

By the way, the specialties you "care about" aren't the good lifestyle specialties you think they are.

Inquiring about the possibility of part-time work after residency is not trolling. Neither is asking about what I need to do during volunteering to get into medical school. Neither was that other thread.

And the specialties I care about can of course be lifestyle specialties if I want them to be. That is not relevant to this thread, however. Kindly stop derailing my thread.

 

[WillburCobb]

Not to feed into rifle, but in case anyone is truly wondering about this issue here's some anecdotal evidence from US MD schools. I knew one person who was dismissed because after failing her 3rd year surg rotation she failed her remediation by 1%, no joke. Up to that point she did fine in med school. Another pulled a rifle during an away OB rotation AFTER having matched to his top OB choice. It was the cherry on top of some other professional issues and he was dismissed just before graduation, lost his residency, was dismissed from the military (mil match), received loan penalties for being dismissed from the military who covered his tuition plus stipends which he now has to pay back with interest, and he's currently working at Target. Take away lesson - don't fu(k-up.

 

[DermViser]

If you are ALREADY inquiring about part-time work before even setting foot in medical school, you will NOT make it.

And your thread about clinical volunteering started out as this:

So I just recently started volunteering at a hospital emergency room. I've only been there 2 days so far (8 hours total) but I have to say that I was quite alarmed at how repulsive some of these patients are.

Quite often we'll have patients who are obnoxiously loud and aggressive, hideously overweight and unkempt, and annoyingly obtuse at times (one lady flat out refused to give a urine sample even though the doctor said it was necessary to proceed to the next step of the diagnosis). One time a nurse asked me for assistance in lifting a morbidly obese, sweating patient from his wheelchair and onto the bed. It took every ounce of restraint in me to avoid bursting out laughing and asking her if she was joking, but I did manage to instead politely excuse myself by saying I was needed elsewhere. Had I known that we were expected to perform such lowly and degrading tasks ahead of time, I honestly never would have signed up for any of this volunteering crap.

So far I've tried to spend minimal time near patients. Not all of them are this bad, but a lot are, and I'm just not at all comfortable around them. Most of the time I'm just folding towels, making beds, cleaning tables and other useless maid work. I'd rather it stay this way to be honest, but I'm not really learning anything valuable.

So I guess this is my question - is it ok/expected for pre-meds to be sort of "hands-off" during clinical volunteering? Since this is an ER and there are doctors, nurses, technicians and patients, I can still categorize this as "clinical volunteering" on my applications, right?

You are absolutely wrong. When it comes to "choosing your lifestyle", there are specialties which by nature do not lend themselves as much to lifestyle. FM and Psych are not lifestyle specialties and definitely not during their residency. This isn't Derm. You will have to carry a pager. More and more doctors private practices are consolidating and having to work for hospitals and become a hospital employee, which you will take orders from them, as to how much you'll work. And guess what, they won't be hiring "part-time" doctors.

 

[DermViser]

Not to feed into rifle, but in case anyone is truly wondering about this issue here's some anecdotal evidence from US MD schools. I knew one person who was dismissed because after failing her 3rd year surg rotation she failed her remediation by 1%, no joke. Up to that point she did fine in med school. Another pulled a rifle during an away OB rotation AFTER having matched to his top OB choice. It was the cherry on top of some other professional issues and he was dismissed just before graduation, lost his residency, was dismissed from the military (mil match), received loan penalties for being dismissed from the military who covered his tuition plus stipends which he now has to pay back with interest, and he's currently working at Target. Take away lesson - don't fu(k-up.

Why did he bring a rifle to an away OB rotation?

 

[rocketbooster]

I don't think you're allowed to fail anything and still pass med school. That being said, you basically get High Pass for just coasting through your rotations. You probably won't get anywhere close to only Pass. You basically have to intentionally piss off ppl to get a Sat. To Honor, you basically have to suck up and/or kill the shelf exams.

FM, psych and pathology are not competitive. You can definitely coast all the way through med school and match to any of them. Radiology is pretty competitive but still not crazy. This year they had 81 spots of ~1100 go unfilled until the SOAP. It's been like that the past several years. Although for you, you will be applying to residency in like 2019 and everything will probably be a lot more competitive with ACGME and DO residencies combining and the increasing expansion of allopathic schools and class size.

 

[WillburCobb]

Why did he bring a rifle to an away OB rotation?

I was referring to OP's username. But srsly were you never tempted? I know I'm a few years out but I'm definitely not anticipating it.

 

[DermViser]

I was referring to OP's username. But srsly were you never tempted? I know I'm a few years out but I'm definitely not anticipating it.

Oh, "pulled a rifle". Got it.