Recently accepted, advice requested on things I can start doing now to match into ortho in 4 years

[paamp]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hello wise ones, I was just accepted into my top choice state school and I want to do everything I can starting now to put me in the best position to match into an ortho residency in 3/4 years. I know this question has probably been asked on this forum before by the other gung ho D0's but I figured I'd ask one more time since every application cycle has slight nuances (e.g. integrated boards now coming into play for the new batch of applicants).

I also know people say that everyone faces a reality check once school actually starts and specialization aspirations go by the way side or that you won't know what you actually like til you practice it but I am 99% I want to be an ortho and I think we can all agree early preparation is an optimal strategy to help maximize my chances (has certainly proven to be the case for me personally in other ventures). I've been working in a non-healthcare STEM field for the last few years that requires self-study outside of work so I think I have the work ethic/mindset to be successful in dental school, along with a natural aptitude for standardized tests (>99th percentile for both SAT back in high school and DAT recently) and a pretty personable demeanor (in the opinion of my coworkers at least!). I will also be graduating with no debt, so I think overall I have some cards stacked in my favor to specialize.

From what I've gathered, PD's look for (not sure of the order of priority): leadership, research, test scores, class rank/gpa, interest/experience, volunteering. I was thinking of prepping for and taking the GRE before school starts since I wont have this kind of free time again and because scores are good for 5 years. Is that a bad idea? I'm also pretty close with a professor with whom I can work on some research (in radiology) and I also joined ASDA with hopes of becoming the legislative liaison at my school once it starts since it aligns with my interests. I am also planning on doing some official ortho shadowing, including shadowing in an ortho lab. I definitely don't want to be overambitious and stretch myself too thin so I'd like to know if balancing these goals will be unrealistic. In relation to ASDA, is it worthwhile to attend the upcoming national meeting?

Any other advice is most welcome, thanks!

 

[Streax1]

1. Grades
2. Don't fail dental school
3. Get good grades

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile

 

[Combine33]

Dude, relax. Go on vacation before dental school. Go on vacations WHILE you're in dental school. Enjoy your time and your life. I'm speaking from experience, enjoy it and dont take it so seriously that your classmates disregard you as a gunner.

 

[paamp]

Dude, relax. Go on vacation before dental school. Go on vacations WHILE you're in dental school. Enjoy your time and your life. I'm speaking from experience, enjoy it and dont take it so seriously that your classmates disregard you as a gunner.

Lol I'm def not as high strung as my post may have made it seem (might be an overpreparer), just curious, what did your CV for perio applications look like? How did you space out your experiences?

 

[bent_on_ortho]

I think you and I have a similar story, and it worked out for me. I planned to do ortho before starting school (I had a lot of experience working in the field after college) and tailored my experience to maximize my chances. As other posters recommended, I also enjoyed my life and took vacations. It's definitely possible to do both if you plan well and manage your time. I could see merit in taking your GRE before school so you have more time to focus on it; however, I didn't find it difficult to study during my D3 year as it was very heavily focused on clinical experience and not coursework, so I had plenty of time outside of school. The only risk in taking it now is that it may be irrelevant by the time you apply to residency as the ADAT is becoming increasingly popular. If money isn't an issue, I don't see a problem in taking that risk. As far as your extracurriculars, they seem great - but don't do them because you want to do ortho, do them because you'll enjoy them and you think you are a good leader/will learn from them. I had plenty of extracurriculars, and I wasn't asked about any of them in my interviews besides research. However, I think research experience is a formality, so try to do something you will enjoy rather than something you think might be impressive. Check to see if your program has summer research opportunities so that it doesn't take up your study time. As Streax1 said, your main focus should be on your grades. That's what will get you interviews. After that, it's all about personality - if they can see you fitting into their program and being a team player with their residents/staff/faculty, then you will match. If you can make the grades, it's not as tough as everyone makes it out to be. I personally wasn't super involved my D1 year, as I focused on having perfect grades, and I became more involved once I realized I could manage it. Good luck!

 

[paamp]

I think you and I have a similar story, and it worked out for me. I planned to do ortho before starting school (I had a lot of experience working in the field after college) and tailored my experience to maximize my chances. As other posters recommended, I also enjoyed my life and took vacations. It's definitely possible to do both if you plan well and manage your time. I could see merit in taking your GRE before school so you have more time to focus on it; however, I didn't find it difficult to study during my D3 year as it was very heavily focused on clinical experience and not coursework, so I had plenty of time outside of school. The only risk in taking it now is that it may be irrelevant by the time you apply to residency as the ADAT is becoming increasingly popular. If money isn't an issue, I don't see a problem in taking that risk. As far as your extracurriculars, they seem great - but don't do them because you want to do ortho, do them because you'll enjoy them and you think you are a good leader/will learn from them. I had plenty of extracurriculars, and I wasn't asked about any of them in my interviews besides research. However, I think research experience is a formality, so try to do something you will enjoy rather than something you think might be impressive. Check to see if your program has summer research opportunities so that it doesn't take up your study time. As Streax1 said, your main focus should be on your grades. That's what will get you interviews. After that, it's all about personality - if they can see you fitting into their program and being a team player with their residents/staff/faculty, then you will match. If you can make the grades, it's not as tough as everyone makes it out to be. I personally wasn't super involved my D1 year, as I focused on having perfect grades, and I became more involved once I realized I could manage it. Good luck!

Exactly the sort of advice I was hoping for, thanks! Another reason I was thinking of doing the GRE now is because some of the schools I interviewed at indicated stretching out the didactic material into the clinical years in preparation for the integrated boards.

 

[pookatooth]

Spend your first semester figuring out how to get all As in school. Its not impossible but also not everyone does it. After you get a handle on grades I would suggest hopping on a research project with an ortho resident (if your school has a program). This can help you familiarize with the ortho department to grab those juicy LORs when the time comes. Do other EC's to make friends and enjoy your time.

You also may learn you don't like ortho, which is fine. Keep an open mind.

 

[paamp]

Spend your first semester figuring out how to get all As in school. Its not impossible but also not everyone does it. After you get a handle on grades I would suggest hopping on a research project with an ortho resident (if your school has a program). This can help you familiarize with the ortho department to grab those juicy LORs when the time comes. Do other EC's to make friends and enjoy your time.

You also may learn you don't like ortho, which is fine. Keep an open mind.

Do you think most people falter due to time management, under developed study skills or is it the practical classes that make it hard to attain all A's?

 

[charlestweed]

Start doing research with the radiology professor now. And try to publish it. The sooner you finish the research project, the more time you will have to do other important things in school such as studying for the ADAT, GRE, getting all the clinical requirements for graduation done on time, spending time to prepare for ortho applications and to travel for ortho interviews etc. Good paying ortho programs like UCLA, Rochester prefer candidates who have strong research background. Even a non-research ortho program like mine prefers applicants with research background. I am glad that I did research in dental school. When I started my ortho residency, I just modified the research project that I did in dental school a little bit and I got my MS degree with very little time and effort. It’s cool to have the extra letters "MS" behind my DDS🙂.

You shouldn’t care about what your classmates think about you. Work hard on day one. Do things that most of your classmates don't want to do. Study hard. Do research. Volunteer. Get good letter of recommendations. I’ve seen a lot of D3, D4 students and practicing dentists, who wanted to specialize but it was too late for them because they didn’t have high enough class rank and they didn’t have any research project.

If you want to accomplish as many things as possible, you have to work hard.... unless you are naturally smart like one of my former roommates, who is now a practicing OS. If you want to get into a good ortho program that pays you, you need to have as many achievements as possible. If there are 2 applicants, who have similar class ranks and GRE scores but only one of them did research in dental school, who do you think would have a higher chance of getting in? Instead of wasting the borrowed money on vacations, spend it on the ortho applications and on the flight tickets for ortho interviews.

 

[anonymousdent]

A lot of good advice here. Pookatooth concisely summarized a nice strategy. Build a strong base for class rank with academic classes in case you struggle in clinic or simulation clinic with the hand skills and if you turn out to have golden hands then you'll have zero problems getting in as that will be a cherry on top with your 99th percentile test taking ability. 4th year will be irrelevant as you'll be interviewing by then. Try to be cordial with your classmates and if they don't like you because you want to specialize that Is their problem.

Id say most people falter with time management as you are expected to learn the technical abilities (hand skills, lab work) while taking moderately difficult science classes. Pookatooth gave you the best advice on here IMO. get your name into the ortho departments head early. class rank is the most important aspect. after that it's who you know. then back to class rank. I'd probably go ahead and take the GRE... you seem to like taking tests and are good at it. sounds like a weight off your shoulders.

graduating with zero debt is amazing. good for you.

 

[e00z]

I just want to take a second and comment on the mental aspect of the process. Dental school is a marathon. It’s common to come in guns blazing but a lot of students lose motivation after the 1st year. Keep on pushing and don’t lose hope. You don’t need to be a perfect candidate to get into ortho.

 

[2TH MVR]

When I started my ortho residency, I just modified the research project that I did in dental school a little bit and I got my MS degree with very little time and effort. It’s cool to have the extra letters "MS" behind my DDS🙂.

Was your residency 3 years? My program was a 2 year program (certificate) with an optional 3rd year (MS). Now it is a 3 year MS residency. Even though my ortho residency had a paid stipend .... I decided to only go the 2 years. I could not stand the thought of another year of residency for two more letters (MS). I was pretty burned out and eager to make some money. So no MS for me and no regrets.

Interestingly ...I still had to present a publishable thesis in order to graduate. Everything necessary for the MS degree. One of my 4 classmates had some issues with his research thesis (problem with not enough statistical data for his thesis) and did not graduate with us. He graduated 6 months later.

 

[charlestweed]

Was your residency 3 years? My program was a 2 year program (certificate) with an optional 3rd year (MS). Now it is a 3 year MS residency. Even though my ortho residency had a paid stipend .... I decided to only go the 2 years. I could not stand the thought of another year of residency for two more letters (MS). I was pretty burned out and eager to make some money. So no MS for me and no regrets.

Interestingly ...I still had to present a publishable thesis in order to graduate. Everything necessary for the MS degree. One of my 4 classmates had some issues with his research thesis (problem with not enough statistical data for his thesis) and did not graduate with us. He graduated 6 months later.

Mine was also a 2 year program that offered a MS degree and cheap out of state tuition. I agree with you that 2 years of training should be enough.

 

[paamp]

Start doing research with the radiology professor now. And try to publish it. The sooner you finish the research project, the more time you will have to do other important things in school such as studying for the ADAT, GRE, getting all the clinical requirements for graduation done on time, spending time to prepare for ortho applications and to travel for ortho interviews etc. Good paying ortho programs like UCLA, Rochester prefer candidates who have strong research background. Even a non-research ortho program like mine prefers applicants with research background. I am glad that I did research in dental school. When I started my ortho residency, I just modified the research project that I did in dental school a little bit and I got my MS degree with very little time and effort. It’s cool to have the extra letters "MS" behind my DDS🙂.

You shouldn’t care about what your classmates think about you. Work hard on day one. Do things that most of your classmates don't want to do. Study hard. Do research. Volunteer. Get good letter of recommendations. I’ve seen a lot of D3, D4 students and practicing dentists, who wanted to specialize but it was too late for them because they didn’t have high enough class rank and they didn’t have any research project.

If you want to accomplish as many things as possible, you have to work hard.... unless you are naturally smart like one of my former roommates, who is now a practicing OS. If you want to get into a good ortho program that pays you, you need to have as many achievements as possible. If there are 2 applicants, who have similar class ranks and GRE scores but only one of them did research in dental school, who do you think would have a higher chance of getting in? Instead of wasting the borrowed money on vacations, spend it on the ortho applications and on the flight tickets for ortho interviews.

What do you think of the strategy some of the others laid out of only starting research once I've been in school for at least a semester? I would personally lean towards this approach as it would also let me pick a project I actually had an interest in (one of the weird people who actually WANTS to do research, preferably in genetics, but not sure if there are genetics related ortho topics?). Also the faculty member I'm close with is at NYU and not my state school so not sure I'll be able to continue doing research once school starts, I was hoping more to leverage their knowledge/contacts to find a good project to work on at my school.

Also I totally agree with the work hard from day one sentiment, but to reassure those people who say to have fun before school starts (and since I'm an overachiever 😛) I actually have 2 pretty fun vacations planned in the upcoming months LOL.

Thanks everybody, this has all been better advice than I was expecting! lol

 

[charlestweed]

What do you think of the strategy some of the others laid out of only starting research once I've been in school for at least a semester? I would personally lean towards this approach as it would also let me pick a project I actually had an interest in (one of the weird people who actually WANTS to do research, preferably in genetics, but not sure if there are genetics related ortho topics?). Also the faculty member I'm close with is at NYU and not my state school so not sure I'll be able to continue doing research once school starts, I was hoping more to leverage their knowledge/contacts to find a good project to work on at my school.

Also I totally agree with the work hard from day one sentiment, but to reassure those people who say to have fun before school starts (and since I'm an overachiever 😛) I actually have 2 pretty fun vacations planned in the upcoming months LOL.

Thanks everybody, this has all been better advice than I was expecting! lol

I thought the radiology professor, whom you know, is at your dental school. Then you have to wait to do research once start dental school. You should work with the professor at your dental school. I know a few people who got accepted to ortho becuase of their research experience and not because of their grades. My unranked classmate beat the #1 guy in our class for an ortho spot at our school's ortho program. He got in because he did a very unique research and he published it. The #1 guy didn't get in anywhere because he thought that it was a sure thing that he would get accepted to our school's ortho program....so he only applied to 5 programs. But our school's ortho director ended up choosing the unranked classmate with the unique research project.

If you want to become an orthodotntist so badly then you have to do whatever it takes to get you there. The more acheivements you have, the higher the chance of getting in. Work hard now because you can't really go back in time to erase the bad grades.

 

[mmc12]

Make sure you have 300K saved up in your bank account in case you need to apply to Georgia School of Orthodontics

 

[bent_on_ortho]

Do you think most people falter due to time management, under developed study skills or is it the practical classes that make it hard to attain all A's?

I totally agree with e00z about motivation - the most common reason I saw people falter with grades was motivation. It is tough to put 100% of your energy into your 4th exam and 3rd practical of the week when it shakes out that way. I had 9 other classmates with a 4.0 after our first year, and only 2 of us ended dental school that way (we both did ortho). A lot of people who planned to specialize changed their minds/settled/found out it wasn't for them. BUT it's doable. A lot of us are examples of it. I personally did not feel like knowing people in the field would have benefited me as I wanted to do residency at a different school than my dental school, but that could help if it's what you want. I matched at my top choice, where I literally knew no one. As for research, if you enjoy it, do what you enjoy. I was asked about my experience at every interview, but it was never a huge focus. Like others have said, there is no perfect candidate, but there are "guidelines" to get you in, and I think you know what to do, your plan is good. Everyone has given great advice, so relax and enjoy the ride. It'll all be worth it!

 

[charlestweed]

I hated research. I was forced to do it because it was the requirement for graduation at my dental school. Everyone in my class had to do research for 3 years (or 12 quarters). At first, I thought it was a stupid requirement,. But when I applied for ortho, I realized that this research requirement at our school was actually a good thing. 8 people in my class (out of 72 students) matched to ortho. The #1 guy, whom I mentioned on my previous post, and I did a year of GPR and both of us got in the following year. I got accepted to ortho the first time applied but I decided to do a year of GPR....if you want to know why, you can PM me.

None of my co-residents loved doing research. Research was actually optional at my ortho program. All of us did research not because we loved it but because we all wanted the extra “MS” letters behind our DDS degrees. It’s good that my program was not very big on research; therefore, getting a MS degree at my program was very easy. If you go to big research oriented ortho program like UCLA, UNC, Harvard, you would have to work a lot harder to get the MS.

 

[sssppp]

I hated research. I was forced to do it because it was the requirement for graduation at my dental school. Everyone in my class had to do research for 3 years (or 12 quarters). At first, I thought it was a stupid requirement,. But when I applied for ortho, I realized that this research requirement at our school was actually a good thing. 8 people in my class (out of 72 students) matched to ortho. The #1 guy, whom I mentioned on my previous post, and I did a year of GPR and both of us got in the following year. I got accepted to ortho the first time applied but I decided to do a year of GPR....if you want to know why, you can PM me.

None of my co-residents loved doing research. Research was actually optional at my ortho program. All of us did research not because we loved it but because we all wanted the extra “MS” letters behind our DDS degrees. It’s good that my program was not very big on research; therefore, getting a MS degree at my program was very easy. If you go to big research oriented ortho program like UCLA, UNC, Harvard, you would have to work a lot harder to get the MS.

Not to be rude, but curious what the benefit of having an MS would be? If you already have a Doctorate why bother get a masters especially if you guys didn’t actually want to do the research but just did it to get the degree

 

[charlestweed]

Not to be rude, but curious what the benefit of having an MS would be? If you already have a Doctorate why bother get a masters especially if you guys didn’t actually want to do the research but just did it to get the degree

None. The MS degree is just as useless as the ABO ortho board certification. And yet, there are some practicing orthodontists out there who want to take the exam to earn that ABO title. I guess the only benefit of having the MS and ABO title is you can apply for a chairman or director job at an ortho program. But who would want to go into teaching and make way less?

I had zero intention to earn that MS degree when I started my ortho residency. But when I saw the upperclassmen defended their thesis and how easy it was for them to earn their MS, I changed my mind. Why not? it didn't take any extra year to earn that degree. I started my research project much later than my co-residents and yet I was the first one in my class to defend the thesis.....thanks to the previous research project I did in dental school.

When the GPs see the extra letter MS letters next to my DDS, they know right away that I am an orthodontist.....they don't have to wonder if I am real ortho or I am a GP, who does ortho. Some GPs, who saw my ads that I placed on the same magazine that they also placed theirs, called my office and asked for the referral slips. Some of the asian patients, who brought their kids in for ortho tx, actually pay attention to this "MS" thing.