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Regret dental school? Switching to med??

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Hello everyone!

I'm a Canadian student who just started dental school last month. All my life i've been changing my mind over med and dental & when i choose dentistry, it was my #1 and i was pretty sure. However, now that i started, i'm feeling less and less sure. Yes, i love what we are learning but i also find the mouth so.. small? Like i wish i could learn about all the other systems because the human body is freaking amazing. I love my more general class like anatomy and i find myself wishing i learn more about the diseases i read in my textbook for example (Moore's fault here...)

The thing i realized, also, is that med school leave you 4 years (well.. technically.. 3) to figure out what exactly you wanna do. In dental school, specialty are not that different and, if i would want to specialize in oral maxillo facial surgery (which is where my passion in dentistry is really since years) i would need a miracle here in Canada as they barely accept any students.

However, i know that, in the long term, dentistry will allow me a better lifestyle. But would that lifestyle be worth my regrets? What if i wake up at 45 and tell myself: "i should have become a XXXX". On the other hand, what if i get call in on Christmas Eve, still at 45 and think to myself: "i should have stay in dental school, that's not worth it.."

I mean, i know i can't be sure but ughhh. Now that i'm here, i feel that med school actually was maybe my #1 choice since forever but i just tried to convince myself that dentistry had it better so it was a smarter choice for my future family. I'm only 22 so yeah, the thought on being on call and working awful hours in residency doesn't scare me that much yet but that could change as i get older.

Anyway, this post is a mess but i need opinions or comments or even people telling me that i'm stupid and should shut up. Would starting med school after a year of dental school be reasonable? Is my feeling totally normal and will just go away? I feel so trapped with dentistry right now. :( (but at the same time, i probably only know the glamorous side of medecine. the specialty i would want now (ortho surg.) will probably change 10x time)

ps. yes i did shadow both professions. And in the province in live in, i don't need the MCAT so i could apply for next year.

tl;dr started dental school last month and now regretting my choice, thinking med school was maybe my 1 choice but at the same time, scared for future lifestyle and general ughhh about my situation.
 

bashwell

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Hello everyone!

I'm a Canadian student who just started dental school last month. All my life i've been changing my mind over med and dental & when i choose dentistry, it was my #1 and i was pretty sure. However, now that i started, i'm feeling less and less sure. Yes, i love what we are learning but i also find the mouth so.. small? Like i wish i could learn about all the other systems because the human body is freaking amazing. I love my more general class like anatomy and i find myself wishing i learn more about the diseases i read in my textbook for example (Moore's fault here...)

The thing i realized, also, is that med school leave you 4 years (well.. technically.. 3) to figure out what exactly you wanna do. In dental school, specialty are not that different and, if i would want to specialize in oral maxillo facial surgery (which is where my passion in dentistry is really since years) i would need a miracle here in Canada as they barely accept any students.

However, i know that, in the long term, dentistry will allow me a better lifestyle. But would that lifestyle be worth my regrets? What if i wake up at 45 and tell myself: "i should have become a XXXX". On the other hand, what if i get call in on Christmas Eve, still at 45 and think to myself: "i should have stay in dental school, that's not worth it.."

I mean, i know i can't be sure but ughhh. Now that i'm here, i feel that med school actually was maybe my #1 choice since forever but i just tried to convince myself that dentistry had it better so it was a smarter choice for my future family. I'm only 22 so yeah, the thought on being on call and working awful hours in residency doesn't scare me that much yet but that could change as i get older.

Anyway, this post is a mess but i need opinions or comments or even people telling me that i'm stupid and should shut up. Would starting med school after a year of dental school be reasonable? Is my feeling totally normal and will just go away? I feel so trapped with dentistry right now. :( (but at the same time, i probably only know the glamorous side of medecine. the specialty i would want now (ortho surg.) will probably change 10x time)

ps. yes i did shadow both professions. And in the province in live in, i don't need the MCAT so i could apply for next year.

tl;dr started dental school last month and now regretting my choice, thinking med school was maybe my 1 choice but at the same time, scared for future lifestyle and general ughhh about my situation.
As long as there aren't any rules in Canada against doing so, I'd say just apply to med school for next year, but of course stay in dental school. If you get in, then you can decide whether to stay in dental school or go to med school. If you don't get in, then at least you know you tried. It doesn't sound like you'll be satisfied until you know you at least tried.
 
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Psai

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When you're a dentist as your own boss and you see all the doctors slaving away you'll thank yourself for making the right decision
 
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bashwell

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I agree with what @Psai said for many if not most specialties in the US.

Although I don't know what the situation is like in Canada.
 

amichel

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I'm in medicine not dentistry, but I hear the job market for dentists up here is very saturated. But then so is ortho... So.
 

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Not all specialties get woken up at 3 am on christmas morning and have to haul ass to the hospital. Nor do all specialties have to work 80 hour weeks. If that was your hang up with medicine I'm not sure you got a broad enough view of the field.
 
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deleted721052

Not all specialties get woken up at 3 am on christmas morning and have to haul ass to the hospital. Nor do all specialties have to work 80 hour weeks. If that was your hang up with medicine I'm not sure you got a broad enough view of the field.

^ ohh i know that TBV! I was exposing the "worst" case scenario that could happens if i would choose, for exemple, a surgery specialty and, let's be real, many specialties have a crazy residency but the lifestyle can be quite good once you're an attending. I know family meds has a lifestyle close to dentistry and so does the ROAD specialities (hence why they are so popular...) You can always choose to work as many hours a week if you want with some specialties too like part-time and all.
 
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ConfusedChemist

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Step1: MCAT
Step2: ECs. Canadian dent schools don't care usually (unless you're at mcgill or something) but med schools care a lot. I'm guessing you've got a stellar GPA though
I actually know people who did this. They got into Western for med I belive. Totally mcat/gpa based, and they had no issues. Macmaster is also VR+GPA+closed file MMI, so they wouldn't care either
 

libraryismyhome

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Getting into medical schools is much harder than dental schools.

I applied to 20 dental schools and 20 medical schools simultaneously. I was waitlisted at Harvard and got into Columbia and Penn. Penn Dental gave me their Dean's Merit Scholarship, which is given to 14 students and is about $120k. While I was gunning like this in dental, I barely got into 1 mitier and 2 low tier allopathic medical schools in my home state.
 
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toothsleuth11

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If OP isn't smart enough to do well in dental classes so that he can become an oral surgeon, he will most likely get stuck doing family medicine hehe. I wonder if he is confident about whether or not being a family physician is as fulfilling as he thinks medicine is.
 
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NoDakDok

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Getting into medical schools is much harder than dental schools.

I applied to 20 dental schools and 20 medical schools simultaneously. I was waitlisted at Harvard and got into Columbia and Penn. Penn Dental gave me their Dean's Merit Scholarship, which is given to 14 students and is about $120k. While I was gunning like this in dental, I barely got into 1 mitier and 2 low tier allopathic medical schools in my home state.

Had similar situation between me and another student from undergrad. We were both similarly competitive for top-tier institutions, I was applying medical and (s)he was applying dental. I had significant ECs over them. While (s)he was interviewing at Harvard I was interviewing at best the low/mid-end of top tier medical programs. It's surprising, because I believe the numbers for dental school are actually technically more competitive, but I haven't looked in a while. It might be due to number applying/seats rather than other competitive features.

I ended up choosing my state school anyways, but that was interesting.

As for OP, like in the US, I would expect swapping from Dental to Med (or vice versa) would be exceptionally difficult, as it demonstrates that you're indecisive. Dentistry is an incredibly lucrative field, and I can't imagine it being something you would ultimately regret. There are far more serious things in life to regret, and plenty of people are perfectly fine with significantly less lucrative careers than dentistry or medicine and they seem to cope with it just fine even without working 32 hours a week Monday-Thursday and collecting several hundred thousand a year being their own boss.
 
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toothsleuth11

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Yeah OP. Teeth aren't that bad! Teeth or rectal exams? I choose Teeth hehehe
 
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toothsleuth11

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Me and ass? How so? I am disgusted at the blatant use of ad-hominen by Dred Pirate. He must be a forum troll. Unbelievable!
 

amichel

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If OP isn't smart enough to do well in dental classes so that he can become an oral surgeon, he will most likely get stuck doing family medicine hehe. I wonder if he is confident about whether or not being a family physician is as fulfilling as he thinks medicine is.


Nah, it's much much harder to get into dental specialities here. There are very few spots. You have to go to the states .

Also, the "med schools with think you're indecisive" thing doesn't really apply either.

OP, go post this on premed 101 if you haven't already. Most people on SDN won't be able to comment as the system in the states is very different!
 
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Screwtape

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Getting into medical schools is much harder than dental schools.

I applied to 20 dental schools and 20 medical schools simultaneously. I was waitlisted at Harvard and got into Columbia and Penn. Penn Dental gave me their Dean's Merit Scholarship, which is given to 14 students and is about $120k. While I was gunning like this in dental, I barely got into 1 mitier and 2 low tier allopathic medical schools in my home state.
Dental schools don't have nearly the same "tier system" as medical schools. My state school has similar/ higher admission standards than the ivy dental schools. The thing with dentistry is that most people will end up going straight into practice and the people who want to specialize can still do so if they go to a good state public (or any school really). The significance of one's academic pedigree within dentistry doesn't really exist (except maybe being a professor at an ivy?), unlike medicine. The biggest difference is cost. State vs ivy, we are literally talking about hundreds of thousands dollars in difference. The ivy dental schools (atleast Harvard and Columbia) are also known for producing lesser skilled clinicians due to their didactic focus rather than hands on. So this is why there are a few people in my class who got into Harvard and Penn etc. but still decided to attend their state school. I feel like that circumstance would be less prevalent with med schools (it obviously happens there too).

I'm not trying to argue entrance difficulties between med and dent. Just pointing that out for those less familiar with dental school entrance competitiveness. I do think allopathic medical school is tougher to get into than dental school. But with DO and carribean, I think it's easier to become a physician than a dentist. Just my opinion, not trying to stir the pot.
 
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libraryismyhome

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Dental schools don't have nearly the same "tier system" as medical schools. My state school has similar/ higher admission standards than the ivy dental schools. The thing with dentistry is that most people will end up going straight into practice and the people who want to specialize can still do so if they go to a good state public (or any school really). The significance of one's academic pedigree within dentistry doesn't really exist (except maybe being a professor at an ivy?), unlike medicine. The biggest difference is cost. State vs ivy, we are literally talking about hundreds of thousands dollars in difference. The ivy dental schools (atleast Harvard and Columbia) are also known for producing lesser skilled clinicians due to their didactic focus rather than hands on. So this is why there are a few people in my class who got into Harvard and Penn etc. but still decided to attend their state school. I feel like that circumstance would be less prevalent with med schools (it obviously happens there too).

I'm not trying to argue entrance difficulties between med and dent. Just pointing that out for those less familiar with dental school entrance competitiveness. I do think allopathic medical school is tougher to get into than dental school. But with DO and carribean, I think it's easier to become a physician than a dentist. Just my opinion, not trying to stir the pot.

Really? You have "several" classmates who got into Harvard and chose your state school? Harvard dental interviews 100 students and accept 45 and about 40 students enroll. So you have "several" classmates who declined their admission offers even after seeing Harvard dental match list? You are lying. Only 1 or 2 harvard dental students go to general dentistry and that's their personal choice.

Surely cheaper state dental schools (especially ones in Texas) are harder to get in than NYU, USC, and Case, most state schools have lower DAT and GPA average than Harvard, Columbia, and Penn. Furthermore, nearly everyone wants to specialize during D1 years just as MS1s want to go to one of ROADs.

Unofficial Tier system in Dentistry based on admission difficulty
1. Harvard: unanymously the most difficult, Average DAT 23+, GPA 3.85, as difficult as mid tier medical schools
2. Columbia and UCLA: Average DAT 23, GPA 3.7, as difficult as low tier medical schools
3. Penn and elite state dental schools like Washington, Connecticut, Stonybrook, and UNC: Average DAT 22, GPA 3.65, as difficult as top DO schools like PCOM
4. State schools: Average DAT 21, GPA 3.5, as difficult as midtier DO schools
5. Expensive Private schools like NYU, USC, Case, and Western: Average DAT 20, GPA 3.45, Carribean medical schools

Unofficial Tier system in Dentistry based on research (NIH, NIDCR funding)
1. Michigan (the only program that offers full-ride to DMD/DDS-Ph.D students) = about the same as low tier med schools' NIH, NIDCR funding
2. UCSF
3. UCLA, Harvard, Columbia, and Penn
4. NYU
5. Rest of dental schools with less than $10 million NIH, NIDCR funding

Midtier medical schools' Average NIH funding: $100 million
 
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jeffk805dent

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When you're a dentist as your own boss and you see all the doctors slaving away you'll thank yourself for making the right decision

While I like my job, operating a dental practice is not as easy as it sounds (part of it also depends on one's marketing skills and location). Plus you have to hope patients come in as its a "eat what you kill" type of job (ok not literally eat and kill the patients). There were days where one patient came in per day, it can be definitely tough at times.
 
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Screwtape

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Really? You have "several" classmates who got into Harvard and chose your state school? Harvard dental interviews 100 students and accept 45 and about 40 students enroll. So you have "several" classmates who declined their admission offers even after seeing Harvard dental match list? You are lying. Only 1 or 2 harvard dental students go to general dentistry and that's their personal choice.

Surely cheaper state dental schools (especially ones in Texas) are harder to get in than NYU, USC, and Case, most state schools have lower DAT and GPA average than Harvard, Columbia, and Penn. Furthermore, nearly everyone wants to specialize during D1 years just as MS1s want to go to one of ROADs.

Unofficial Tier system in Dentistry based on admission difficulty
1. Harvard: unanymously the most difficult, Average DAT 23+, GPA 3.85, as difficult as mid tier medical schools
2. Columbia and UCLA: Average DAT 23, GPA 3.7, as difficult as low tier medical schools
3. Penn and elite state dental schools like Washington, Connecticut, Stonybrook, and UNC: Average DAT 22, GPA 3.65, as difficult as top DO schools like PCOM
4. State schools: Average DAT 21, GPA 3.5, as difficult as midtier DO schools
5. Expensive Private schools like NYU, USC, Case, and Western: Average DAT 20, GPA 3.45, Carribean medical schools

Unofficial Tier system in Dentistry based on research (NIH, NIDCR funding)
1. Michigan (the only program that offers full-ride to DMD/DDS-Ph.D students) = about the same as low tier med schools' NIH, NIDCR funding
2. UCSF
3. UCLA, Harvard, Columbia, and Penn
4. NYU
5. Rest of dental schools with less than $10 million NIH, NIDCR funding

Midtier medical schools' Average NIH funding: $100 million

Oh boy I don't even know where to start... you directly quoted me saying "several" classmates got into Harvard... I did not even use the word several, I said "a few people in my class who got into Harvard and Penn etc." (please check my above statement, perhaps I should have said OR not AND). But yes, my previous statement is factual. Also I do not have the time to fact check everything you have stated, but the other glaring false statement in your above text is that Michigan offers the "only program that offers full ride to DMD/DDS-Ph.D students"-- I personally know a full ride DMD/Ph.D student at UIC College of Dentistry and I believe there are a few other schools that offer the same. Either way I am not sure why you are being so defensive, but you are simply spewing (at least) partially inaccurate information. Why the heck are you bringing up NIH funding? This may be important to medical schools, but I can tell you that virtually no dental students care about this metric...you are only furthering my point. It was never my intent to start an argument here...
 
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Shams al Deen

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Unofficial Tier system in Dentistry based on admission difficulty
1. Harvard: unanymously the most difficult, Average DAT 23+, GPA 3.85, as difficult as mid tier medical schools
2. Columbia and UCLA: Average DAT 23, GPA 3.7, as difficult as low tier medical schools
3. Penn and elite state dental schools like Washington, Connecticut, Stonybrook, and UNC: Average DAT 22, GPA 3.65, as difficult as top DO schools like PCOM
4. State schools: Average DAT 21, GPA 3.5, as difficult as midtier DO schools
5. Expensive Private schools like NYU, USC, Case, and Western: Average DAT 20, GPA 3.45, Carribean medical schools
Lol I don't know about that. I mean a 22 DAT is roughly equivalent to a 34-35 MCAT (percentile-wise; and the pool of test-takers isn't that different, let's be honest). If you get a 34-35MCAT/3.7 GPA, there's no way your going to PCOM, unless you legit had no ECs or suck at interviewing. And NYU/CWRU have avgs more like 20.5/3.55 I believe. That corresponds to an MCAT/GPA of something like 32/3.55. Not exactly Caribbean material. I mean, not even close cmon now.

In my opinion, if you include DO schools, then gaining admission to med school is similar in difficulty to getting into dental school. If you wanna include Carribs, then med school is way easier to get into. And many many many new docs in the US every year come from Carribs -despite what SDN may lead you to believe. (Still a dumb idea to go Carribs, but many do somehow make it out alive).
 
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libraryismyhome

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Oh boy I don't even know where to start... you directly quoted me saying "several" classmates got into Harvard... I did not even use the word several, I said "a few people in my class who got into Harvard and Penn etc." (please check my above statement, perhaps I should have said OR not AND). But yes, my previous statement is factual. Also I do not have the time to fact check everything you have stated, but the other glaring false statement in your above text is that Michigan offers the "only program that offers full ride to DMD/DDS-Ph.D students"-- I personally know a full ride DMD/Ph.D student at UIC College of Dentistry and I believe there are a few other schools that offer the same. Either way I am not sure why you are being so defensive, but you are simply spewing (at least) partially inaccurate information. Why the heck are you bringing up NIH funding? This may be important to medical schools, but I can tell you that virtually no dental students care about this metric...you are only furthering my point. It was never my intent to start an argument here...

Okay, I did not know about UIC cause I did not apply to any schools that had below 21 DAT average. But you writing "no dental students care about this metric," you are wrong about that. At least the places I interviewed (Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Pitt, Maryland, and etc) did care a lot about their funding and were very proud that they got more funding than other schools. When I went to Harvard for an interview, Dr. Anne Berg, the dean of Admission at Harvard Dental stressed the importance of research. So I see that there are two perspectives in Dentistry: (1) Those who are focused on oral medicine research and specialities and (2) Those who are focused on general dentistry and skills.

Schools that are focused on (2) are mostly non-Ivys and non-elite state schools and students who go to these places have lower GPA and DAT and ofcourse less number of publications and lower impact factors. During my interview at Penn, they did not even let me talk for more than 10 minutes and they spent the entire hour talking about Penn's match list and research. And then they offered me their Dean's Merit Scholarship on December 2nd, the first day dental schools notify their admission offers to applicants. Dean's Merit from Penn is given to 14 accepted students and among 14, only one student gets this scholarship in December while the rest gets them in March or April. And the winner of the first Dean's Merit Scholarship was me.


Lol I don't know about that. I mean a 22 DAT is roughly equivalent to a 34-35 MCAT (percentile-wise; and the pool of test-takers isn't that different, let's be honest). If you get a 34-35MCAT/3.7 GPA, there's no way your going to PCOM, unless you legit had no ECs or suck at interviewing. And NYU/CWRU have avgs more like 20.5/3.55 I believe. That corresponds to an MCAT/GPA of something like 32/3.55. Not exactly Caribbean material. I mean, not even close cmon now.

In my opinion, if you include DO schools, then gaining admission to med school is similar in difficulty to getting into dental school. If you wanna include Carribs, then med school is way easier to get into. And many many many new docs in the US every year come from Carribs -despite what SDN may lead you to believe. (Still a dumb idea to go Carribs, but many do somehow make it out alive).

It's good to share your opinion but I personally took DAT and scored 24 TS and 24 aaI had to take MCAT several times just to break 30. While I was gunning in dental schools, I was only accepted to 1 mid tier and 2 low tier allopathic medical schools in my state. I did not apply to DO schools cause their research is pathetic.
 
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W19

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@JP2740 I studied for the DAT before I decided to take the MCAT and go to med school. The exams are different... The DAT is kind of a straightforward exam. There is a reading comprehension (RC) section, but it's nowhere close to the type of RC in the MCAT...

I was getting 22 in my practice exam for the DAT and I was shocked when I got a 19 :( in my first MCAT practice exam... The MCAT is 60% + reading comprehension and I have struggled with that since I learned to read and speak English after high school.

If your friend got 23 in the DAT and English is his first language, he/she should not have had a difficult time to at least break a 28+ in the MCAT after studying for a couple of months... The content of both exams are similar (exempt for physics in the MCAT and PA/Math on the DAT), but the way the MCAT ask these questions can be tricky...

Boy! I was all over the map career-wise... I went from getting accepted to pharmacy school, then decided I want to dentistry, then medicine.
 
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fancymylotus

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Are we really arguing about which exam is more difficult? The MCAT is more difficult than the DAT except for the damn perceptual ability test.

I tried to do a sample version of that part recently and its way easier now, but back then, I was terrible at it.
 
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libraryismyhome

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Are we really arguing about which exam is more difficult? The MCAT is more difficult than the DAT except for the damn perceptual ability test.

I tried to do a sample version of that part recently and its way easier now, but back then, I was terrible at it.

nope. Not only with the fact that DAT is eaiser than MCAT, I don't like lot of dental students thinking that their schools are harder to get in than DO schools and trying to place themselves above DO students.

Results do not lie.
 
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fancymylotus

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nope. Not only with the fact that DAT is eaiser than MCAT, I don't like lot of dental students thinking that their schools are harder to get in than DO schools and trying to place themselves above DO students. This is vicious attempt to place themselves equal to allopathic medical students. DO students could not get into allopathic schools and therefore are below allopathic medical students. But they are certainly not below dental students.

Results do not lie.




.....if your argument is that us dentists are all too stupid to become physicians and that's why we went to dental school, I will have to disagree with you.

I wouldn't have gone to med school if a guaranteed acceptance wherever I wanted as well as whatever residency spot I wanted had been handed to me on a silver platter.
 

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I think DO and dental schools are on the same level in term of admission standards... Dental schools DAT range from 23-18 (From Harvard -----> Meharry/LECOM).... DO schools MCAT range from 30-24 (From TouroCA ----->LUCOM)... But I think it's a heck of a lot easier to get 18 on the DAT than getting 24 in the MCAT...
 
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W19

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nope. Not only with the fact that DAT is eaiser than MCAT, I don't like lot of dental students thinking that their schools are harder to get in than DO schools and trying to place themselves above DO students. This is vicious attempt to place themselves equal to allopathic medical students. DO students could not get into allopathic schools and therefore are below allopathic medical students. But they are certainly not below dental students.

Results do not lie.

Why does that bother you so much?
 
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libraryismyhome

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.....if your argument is that us dentists are all too stupid to become physicians and that's why we went to dental school, I will have to disagree with you.

I wouldn't have gone to med school if a guaranteed acceptance wherever I wanted as well as whatever residency spot I wanted had been handed to me on a silver platter.

Why does that bother you so much?

Nope I do not think that dentists are stupid. I only correct things that are wrong.
Based on my own experience of simultaneously taking MCAT and DAT and applying to medical schools and dental schools, what these dental students writing on SDN and saying that they are above DO students are clearly wrong.


Unofficial Tier system in Dentistry based on admission difficulty
1. Harvard: unanymously the most difficult, Average DAT 23+, GPA 3.85, as difficult as mid tier medical schools
2. Columbia and UCLA: Average DAT 23, GPA 3.7, as difficult as low tier medical schools
3. Penn and elite state dental schools like Washington, Connecticut, Stonybrook, and UNC: Average DAT 22, GPA 3.65, as difficult as top DO schools like PCOM
4. State schools: Average DAT 21, GPA 3.5, as difficult as midtier DO schools
5. Expensive Private schools like NYU, USC, Case, and Western: Average DAT 20, GPA 3.45, Carribean medical schools

Unofficial Tier system in Dentistry based on research (NIH, NIDCR funding)
1. Michigan (the only program that offers full-ride to DMD/DDS-Ph.D students) = about the same as low tier med schools' NIH, NIDCR funding
2. UCSF
3. UCLA, Harvard, Columbia, and Penn
4. NYU
5. Rest of dental schools with less than $10 million NIH, NIDCR funding

Midtier medical schools' Average NIH funding: $100 million
 
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Shams al Deen

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It's good to share your opinion but I personally took DAT and scored 24 TS and 23 AA. I had to take MCAT several times just to break 30. While I was gunning in dental schools, I was only accepted to 1 mid tier and 2 low tier allopathic medical schools in my state. I did not apply to DO schools cause their research is pathetic.

Here are my DAT scores

It's possible that you faired better on the DAT than MCAT due to something personal to you. For example, I know a lot of brainiacs that speak English as a second language. They kill every science exam in school (which mirrors DAT) but just can't fully master those killer bio/verbal MCAT passages. So, if English is your second language, then I'd propose that as a reason why your DAT was 99th percentile while MCAT was not close to that. Not that the DAT is inherently a much easier test. I personally thought DAT bio, ochem were harder than corresponding MCAT sections. (Not to mention that PAT which was killer).
 
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Shams al Deen

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nope. Not only with the fact that DAT is eaiser than MCAT, I don't like lot of dental students thinking that their schools are harder to get in than DO schools and trying to place themselves above DO students. This is vicious attempt to place themselves equal to allopathic medical students. DO students could not get into allopathic schools and therefore are below allopathic medical students. But they are certainly not below dental students.

Results do not lie.

Didn't know people thought that way lol with the strange hierarchy and all.

And for someone that values research so much, you're putting an awful lot of value on anecdotal experiences. I think looking at percentiles and realizing pre-dents and pre-meds are a similar pool of test-takers is more reasonable when comparing MCAT and DAT scores. Don't you?
 

jeffk805dent

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Are we really arguing about which exam is more difficult? The MCAT is more difficult than the DAT except for the damn perceptual ability test.

I tried to do a sample version of that part recently and its way easier now, but back then, I was terrible at it.

I dont get why this is a recurring theme either. Medical school has more specialties than dentistry and has more specialties for a better salary/job market, its obvious brighter minds are going to apply for medical school more so than applying to dental school given those factors mentioned above.
 

fancymylotus

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Nope I do not think that dentists are stupid. I only correct things that are wrong.
Based on my own experience of simultaneously taking MCAT and DAT and applying to medical schools and dental schools, what these dental students writing on SDN and saying that they are above DO students are clearly wrong.


Unofficial Tier system in Dentistry based on admission difficulty
1. Harvard: unanymously the most difficult, Average DAT 23+, GPA 3.85, as difficult as mid tier medical schools
2. Columbia and UCLA: Average DAT 23, GPA 3.7, as difficult as low tier medical schools
3. Penn and elite state dental schools like Washington, Connecticut, Stonybrook, and UNC: Average DAT 22, GPA 3.65, as difficult as top DO schools like PCOM
4. State schools: Average DAT 21, GPA 3.5, as difficult as midtier DO schools
5. Expensive Private schools like NYU, USC, Case, and Western: Average DAT 20, GPA 3.45, Carribean medical schools

Unofficial Tier system in Dentistry based on research (NIH, NIDCR funding)
1. Michigan (the only program that offers full-ride to DMD/DDS-Ph.D students) = about the same as low tier med schools' NIH, NIDCR funding
2. UCSF
3. UCLA, Harvard, Columbia, and Penn
4. NYU
5. Rest of dental schools with less than $10 million NIH, NIDCR funding

Midtier medical schools' Average NIH funding: $100 million


*Based on your own experience* is the key phrase here.
 

Screwtape

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nope. Not only with the fact that DAT is eaiser than MCAT, I don't like lot of dental students thinking that their schools are harder to get in than DO schools and trying to place themselves above DO students. This is vicious attempt to place themselves equal to allopathic medical students. DO students could not get into allopathic schools and therefore are below allopathic medical students. But they are certainly not below dental students.

I think you read into what I said a little too much. Vicious attempt? Really? Also why are admission difficulties so important to you? You do know that US MD schools are not the end all be all in this so called admission hierarchy right? You shouldn't base your personal value on how hard it is to get into your respective school. Also why are you using the words "above" and "below" when talking about other professional students? You sound like you have some crazy superiority complex. Does it bother you that DO students and car rib MDs will have the exact same job as you?
 

Psai

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I think you read into what I said a little too much. Vicious attempt? Really? Also why are admission difficulties so important to you? You do know that US MD schools are not the end all be all in this so called admission hierarchy right? You shouldn't base your personal value on how hard it is to get into your respective school. Also why are you using the words "above" and "below" when talking about other professional students? You sound like you have some crazy superiority complex. Does it bother you that DO students and car rib MDs will have the exact same job as you?

Let's be real, in the admission hierarchy medical school is at the top.
 
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fancymylotus

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I don't know why it's even a debate. The numbers tell us this. I have more friends who are dentists than doctors, and they say the same.


I agree with this statement, however, I don't think it means that all of us dentists think we're better than DO's or we all secretly wanted to become physicians and failed at it.
 

Screwtape

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I'm not trying to argue entrance difficulties between med and dent. Just pointing that out for those less familiar with dental school entrance competitiveness. I do think allopathic medical school is tougher to get into than dental school. But with DO and carribean, I think it's easier to become a physician than a dentist. Just my opinion, not trying to stir the pot.

From my original reply... sorry that i derailed this thread...
 

W19

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Let's be real, in the admission hierarchy medical school is at the top.

It's probably like that:

MD > DO ~ DDS/DMD > PA > DPM > OD > PharmD > PT/OT > AuD > DNP ;)
 

Shams al Deen

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It's probably like that:

MD > DO ~ DDS/DMD > PA > DPM > OD > PharmD > PT/OT > AuD > DNP ;)
Yeah I agree with this. Some pretty avg apps get tons of IIs at DO schools and won't get any at MD schools.
 

libraryismyhome

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This post just makes me feel sorry for you. Really, putting people "above" or "below" others because of what degree they want? Yikes...so by your logic, would me getting a 36 on my first MCAT attempt and a 26 on the DAT I took later make me better than you? Please :rolleyes: . If I had as many hang-ups as you seem to have, I could argue your inability to break 30 after multiple MCAT attempts is more demonstrative of a personal failure on your part than anything else.

Mind sharing your mcat scores and dat scores? Cause it doesnt make sense that someone who can score 36 on MCAT just scoring 26 on DAT. In exchange, i could post a picture of letter written by penn dental's dean offering me $120k deans merit scholarship in December. :lol:
 
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Godspeedyou

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Mind sharing your mcat scores and dat scores? Cause it doesnt make sense that someone who can score 36 on MCAT just scoring 26 on DAT. In exchange, i could post a picture of letter written by penn dental's dean offering me $120k deans merit scholarship in December. :lol:


You spend 90% of your time on SDN trolling pre-dents

LMAO @ you
lmao STRONG LIFE
 

libraryismyhome

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You spend 90% of your time on SDN trolling pre-dents

LMAO @ you
lmao STRONG LIFE

Dont get me wrong. I respect dentists and dental schools are hard to get in as well. Thats why they are the second hardest.
 
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Dave89

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It happened to be the case that every pre-dental student I knew in undergrad was set on dental school, and wasn't een considering medical school. And some of them could have done extremely well on the MCAT.

With this said, libraryismyhome seems to be one of the few people who has extensive experience with the application processes for both fields, so I'd say that (s)he has a uniquely knowledgeable perspective on the matter.

(Also - I think you upset the balance in the universe by turning down acceptances to Columbia and Penn.)
 
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