Research on Sexism in Medical School

[glass_ceilings]

Hi MDs! I could really use your help with my research on sexist microaggressions in medical school.

As I'm sure you're all aware, sexism is prominent in the medical community, yet little research has been done at the level of medical students. I noticed subtle acts of sexism during my rotations, and I was curious to see if anyone else had the same experiences.

My survey is super quick, only takes 2-5 minutes to complete, and the results from this have tremendous potential to raise awareness, change policies, and make medical school less of a toxic environment.

If you have a second, I would really appreciate your participation. Here's the link: Medical Student Survey

It's open to any and all medical students! Reply if you have any questions!

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[Hzreio]

Hi MDs! I could really use your help with my research on sexist microaggressions in medical school.

As I'm sure you're all aware, sexism is prominent in the medical community, yet little research has been done at the level of medical students. I noticed subtle acts of sexism during my rotations, and I was curious to see if anyone else had the same experiences.

My survey is super quick, only takes 2-5 minutes to complete, and the results from this have tremendous potential to raise awareness, change policies, and make medical school less of a toxic environment.

If you have a second, I would really appreciate your participation. Here's the link: Medical Student Survey

It's open to any and all medical students! Reply if you have any questions!

Response bias.. Js

 

[Billiam95]

"Begin with the end in mind" doesn't apply to research.

 

[ChymeofPassion]

I'd add some questions that includes problems with males experiencing sexism (eg. treatment on OBY-GYN rotation) for completeness.

Also, as others have mentioned, response bias will really hinder something like an SDN polls voluntary completion (people in a voluntary poll are much more likely to respond if they have been a victim).

Best of luck with your research!

 

[Goro]

Strongly suggest that you send your survey to med school Deans (such as Dean of Research, or THE Dean), who hopefully will ask thier student body to take part. I know that my Dean has sent stuff like this out to our students

 

[gyngyn]

Strongly suggest that you send your survey to med school Deans (such as Dean of Research, or THE Dean), who hopefully will ask thier student body to take part. I know that my Dean has sent stuff like this out to our students

We rarely allow outside surveys.
The poor students suffer from so much survey fatigue already.

 

[DD214]

you should also do a survey about how Medicare pays female physicians less because of the oppressive white male patriarchal hegemony

Men all submit the same codes for the same patient encounters that women do but we use a "Bro" modifier to pay us an extra 50% more

 

[anesussy]

While I agree that some of the claims feminists make about sexism are pretty dubious, I think it's pretty disconcerting that everyone on here immediately jumped to bring down someone trying to shine a light on sexism.

Sexism is a real issue - I've had multiple friends tell me stories of residents/attendings hitting on them in a super persistent way that made them uncomfortable.

Yea, this isn't the best study design, but maybe we could suggest alternatives (ie, constructive criticism) instead of just criticism?

 

[SurfingDoctor]

We rarely allow outside surveys.
The poor students suffer from so much survey fatigue already.

As it should be. Survey research is not really research at all because by nature, it is not objective or unbiased.

 

[deleted1100659]

I agree that the issue does exist

Also agree that this survey is of poor design, and not likely to have verified/valid responses so the results wont be super impactful.

Why not make into an internal study, see if you can get it approved by your medical school, and have people optionally fill it out and look at the data and sort it out by each medical school classes? Could include males as well to see if they have witnessed particular things.

random people off the internet seems less effective

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Hi MDs! I could really use your help with my research on sexist microaggressions in medical school.

As I'm sure you're all aware, sexism is prominent in the medical community, yet little research has been done at the level of medical students. I noticed subtle acts of sexism during my rotations, and I was curious to see if anyone else had the same experiences.

My survey is super quick, only takes 2-5 minutes to complete, and the results from this have tremendous potential to raise awareness, change policies, and make medical school less of a toxic environment.

If you have a second, I would really appreciate your participation. Here's the link: Medical Student Survey

It's open to any and all medical students! Reply if you have any questions!

Can you document your IRB approval? We have a general policy that you should provide this information to affirm the legitimacy of the research.

EDITED: Oh, there is an IRB. Thanks!

 

[DD214]

I actually clicked through your survey, and it basically reads like it was taken verbatim from a wife-beater movie on the Lifetime Channel

Maybe you could just report on this which I'm sure you believe happens on a daily basis (11:00 mark)

 

[DarkBluMage]

I actually clicked through your survey, and it basically reads like it was taken verbatim from a wife-beater movie on the Lifetime Channel

Maybe you could just report on this which I'm sure you believe happens on a daily basis (11:00 mark)

More bashing rather than constructive criticism… Gota love the rose colored glasses from people that don’t have to deal with sexism. Embarrassing

 

[DD214]

More bashing rather than constructive criticism… Gota love the rose colored glasses from people that don’t have to deal with sexism. Embarrassing

The bashing is well deserved

Expect more of it as more people are completely burnt out on the attempted vilification by the SJW

 

[SurfingDoctor]

The bashing is well deserved

Expect more of it as more and more are completely done with the attempted vilification by the SJW

Oof. Really working on that probationary status huh?

 

[doomer_md]

“A male automatically assumed a position of leadership.”

“A female medical student was mistaken for a nurse.”

Come on.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Oof. Really working on that probationary status huh?

Was just thinking that 😂🥴

 

[DD214]

Oof. Really working on that probationary status huh?

Yes, probationary status on a free anonymous website should be taken extremely seriously

 

[DarkBluMage]

The bashing is well deserved

Expect more of it as more people are completely burnt out on the attempted vilification by the SJW

Lol sure buddy

 

[Redpancreas]

Hi MDs! I could really use your help with my research on sexist microaggressions in medical school.

As I'm sure you're all aware, sexism is prominent in the medical community, yet little research has been done at the level of medical students. I noticed subtle acts of sexism during my rotations, and I was curious to see if anyone else had the same experiences.

My survey is super quick, only takes 2-5 minutes to complete, and the results from this have tremendous potential to raise awareness, change policies, and make medical school less of a toxic environment.

If you have a second, I would really appreciate your participation. Here's the link: Medical Student Survey

It's open to any and all medical students! Reply if you have any questions!

Survey is poorly written. That's all I'll say.

 

[Proudfather94]

I do agree that sexism does exist but I think it happens out of and beyond medical school. Alot of schools are trying to combat sexism by making their classes have more female than male students. This shows that they are at least trying to fix the issue.

The issue seems to stem more from hospitals and residency programs. People using positions of authority to try to impress or use coercion to get someone to have relations with them or programs worried that women want to have babies and want a break from residency.

 

[DarkBluMage]

I do agree that sexism does exist but I think it happens out of and beyond medical school. Alot of schools are trying to combat sexism by making their classes have more female than male students. This shows that they are at least trying to fix the issue.

The issue seems to stem more from hospitals and residency programs. People using positions of authority to try to impress or use coercion to get someone to have relations with them or programs worried that women want to have babies and want a break from residency.

It happens within medical school as well. I personally know of women that were victimized by professors threatening harsher “grading” or risks of failing them if sexual favors weren’t given during medical school. Sexism doesn’t just happen in the work force, it happens in school as well. Most things like this are kept in house or swept under the rug to preserve the integrity of the schools and victims often don’t want to come forward out of shame or fear that the career they worked so hard towards will be lost. Simply admitting more female students doesn’t fix predatory behavior from people in positions of authority.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

It happens within medical school as well. I personally know of women that were victimized by professors threatening harsher “grading” or risks of failing them if sexual favors weren’t given during medical school

I think this happened alot in the past but not as much anymore due to recent precedents. Look at the recent case at an Ivy League undergrad for a similar thing. 15million dollar settlement. All 3 professors will never work again, justifiably. Most professors know that if they try anything like this, a similar outcome will occur

 

[Proudfather94]

It happens within medical school as well. I personally know of women that were victimized by professors threatening harsher “grading” or risks of failing them if sexual favors weren’t given during medical school. Sexism doesn’t just happen in the work force, it happens in school as well. Most things like this are kept in house or swept under the rug to preserve the integrity of the schools and victims often don’t want to come forward out of shame or fear that the career they worked so hard towards will be lost. Simply admitting more female students doesn’t fix predatory behavior from people in positions of authority.

Those professors deserve to be in jail and on the offenders list. If I was in that situation I would try to get a recording of them saying that and then report it. If nothing got done of it I would go public.

 

[DarkBluMage]

I think this happened alot in the past but not as much anymore due to recent precedents. Look at the recent case at an Ivy League undergrad for a similar thing. 15million dollar settlement. All 3 professors will never work again, justifiably. Most professors know that if they try anything like this, a similar outcome will occur

I hope so

 

[DarkBluMage]

Those professors deserve to be in jail and on the offenders list. If I was in that situation I would try to get a recording of them saying that and then report it. If nothing got done of it I would go public.

I agree. If I was in that position I’d do the same. I’d be scared about being punished/kicked out for speaking out but some things just need to be dealt with, especially when it comes to preventing future victims.

 

[Proudfather94]

I agree. If I was in that position I’d do the same. I’d be scared about being punished/kicked out for speaking out but some things just need to be dealt with, especially when it comes to preventing future victims.

Doing this may be legal in states like Cali. I looked up the law and it says you can record without consent if it is used as evidence of a crime. I would think a prof doing this would fit the definition of extortion right? I would maybe talk to a lawyer in one of these states first.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

Does anyone honestly believe you can perform unbiased and meaningful research on social issues in the current academic environment? There are too many null hypotheses that if not disproven would result in total pandemonium (and a massive headache for the authors). The results are known before the study begins, because any other results are deemed unacceptable.

Research is really most accurate when no particular result produces a winner or loser and when the results don't interact with our core moral or cultural values. For instance, consider these results.

1) Protein secretion level from a cell line is X pg/ml in a plate-based assay. There is no "good" or "bad" result, and there are no consequences from the outcome.

2) A particular therapeutic can knock down that expression level. Still probably pretty accurate, but now there is a "good" outcome for the author, since evidence of a therapeutic effect makes the study more interesting.

3) The therapeutic has a beneficial effect in people. This is likely accurate because we have strict rules for study design, though there are a lot of biases and "winners" and "losers." Likely this will have very little interaction with our cultural values.

4) The therapeutic is only beneficial for white people. Now people are getting nervous. This may result in health disparities in the field. There are many reasons why people may fight this data. Researchers who find this outcome may be reluctant to publish it, or they may return to the raw data and find a less controversial outcome to avoid embroiling themselves in controversy.

5) The therapeutic is not beneficial for black people due to some cultural difference. This sort of result is so inflammatory that it may not even be published. If it is published, it will be accompanied by further data that brings that cultural difference back into context with our current moral framework for disparities in health, or some alternative explanation will be presented.

By the time we are asking questions like, "To what extent do women experience sexism in medical school?" we are so far beyond the obscure and so deep into the territory of winners, losers, and core values that it's nearly impossible to trust any result.

Any attempt I've made at performing research on social issues has been intellectually unfulfilling. The goal of these fields seems to be to strengthen the conclusions of previous studies, not to seek out unbiased and absolute truth. This creates a positive feedback loop where the only people who succeed in the field (and produce more research) are those who produce results that continue to produce the right evidence.

The weakness of survey research aside, this is such a classic encapsulation of the problems with this field of research. OP's survey is filled with leading questions, and she openly admits her biases, expected results, and desired results when introducing the survey to the participants. Somehow all of this was stamped and approved by a research mentor to reach this stage. This is not research. It's activism. I'm a big supporter and participant in activism. I just wish we'd stop calling it research.

 

[GoSpursGo]

So, a couple of quick points:

1) Regardless of what you think about the topic, it was actually IRB-approved so it has actually been reviewed and found to be of some scientific validity. If you don't like the research, you're under no obligation to respond.
2) That said... as a matter of constructive criticism, and having published some respondent-based survey in the literature, I have to agree with some of the criticism that is being raised. I'm a little surprised your IRB approved this with such leading prompts and questions. I think if you try to publish this later, you're going to run into some very difficult to address reviewer feedback surrounding this problem, and I say this not to just pile on but to highlight that you're getting some mean but valid criticism that you should consider going forward. It actually completely undercuts your premise that your survey has potential to change policies, because you invite the kind of response that you received here. This is really important to consider when you are designing a study in this space.

 

[Lawpy]

So, a couple of quick points:

1) Regardless of what you think about the topic, it was actually IRB-approved so it has actually been reviewed and found to be of some scientific validity. If you don't like the research, you're under no obligation to respond.
2) That said... as a matter of constructive criticism, and having published some respondent-based survey in the literature, I have to agree with some of the criticism that is being raised. I'm a little surprised your IRB approved this with such leading prompts and questions. I think if you try to publish this later, you're going to run into some very difficult to address reviewer feedback surrounding this problem, and I say this not to just pile on but to highlight that you're getting some mean but valid criticism that you should consider going forward. It actually completely undercuts your premise that your survey has potential to change policies, because you invite the kind of response that you received here. This is really important to consider when you are designing a study in this space.

I’m just confused why the IRB approved this study despite the glaring problems

 

[doomer_md]

I’m just confused why the IRB approved this study despite the glaring problems

Why would anyone be surprised given the current state of academia?

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

So, a couple of quick points:

1) Regardless of what you think about the topic, it was actually IRB-approved so it has actually been reviewed and found to be of some scientific validity. If you don't like the research, you're under no obligation to respond.
2) That said... as a matter of constructive criticism, and having published some respondent-based survey in the literature, I have to agree with some of the criticism that is being raised. I'm a little surprised your IRB approved this with such leading prompts and questions. I think if you try to publish this later, you're going to run into some very difficult to address reviewer feedback surrounding this problem, and I say this not to just pile on but to highlight that you're getting some mean but valid criticism that you should consider going forward. It actually completely undercuts your premise that your survey has potential to change policies, because you invite the kind of response that you received here. This is really important to consider when you are designing a study in this space.

I think it's exactly the expected result. IRBs I've dealt with are extremely strict on patient data, tissues, and direct interaction. Their job isn't really to judge the validity of the methods, though it can be a consideration if there are unnecessary risks. For something like an anonymous survey, it's unlikely they'll cause a fuss over biased questions. It's really the job of the researchers, mentors, and reviewers to ensure the methods are correct.

As for reviewers, there is always a journal willing to publish, eventually, especially if the results confirm the reviewer's biases. The students and attendings get a new line on their CV, and the journal gets a publishing fee.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I think it's exactly the expected result. IRBs I've dealt with are extremely strict on patient data, tissues, and direct interaction. Their job isn't really to judge the validity of the methods, though it can be a consideration if there are unnecessary risks. For something like an anonymous survey, it's unlikely they'll cause a fuss over biased questions. It's really the job of the researchers, mentors, and reviewers to ensure the methods are correct.

As for reviewers, there is always a journal willing to publish, eventually, especially if the results confirm the reviewer's biases. The students and attendings get a new line on their CV, and the journal gets a publishing fee.

I suppose it could’ve been considered IRB exempt since you’re not even surveying patients. But usually the IRB will do at least some superficial Scientific review.

And I have no doubt it can get published SOMEWHERE. But if the intent is actually to get this in a meaningful journal where it could lead to “change” like the OP suggests then you need to start with something more rigorous

 

[SurfingDoctor]

IRB protect participants from harm. They don’t however protect academics from bad hypotheses or poor hypothesis testing. That’s not their point.

An IRB would likely approve a study giving a butterfly sticker to a cancer patient if the patient consented. That doesn’t mean they think that butterfly stickers do anything of value.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Genuine question…how do you actually verify that these responses are coming from med students? Seems like anybody with the link can fill it out. Is it like the honor principle?

 

[SurfingDoctor]

As for reviewers, there is always a journal willing to publish, eventually, especially if the results confirm the reviewer's biases. The students and attendings get a new line on their CV, and the journal gets a publishing fee.

This is very true. Every article has a home… for the right fee.

"Get Me Off Your Fucking Mailing List" is an actual science paper accepted by a journal

It's literally just those seven words, over and over again.

www.vox.com

 

[GoSpursGo]

Genuine question…how do you actually verify that these responses are coming from med students? Seems like anybody with the link can fill it out. Is it like the honor principle?

Yeah this was a concern I had as well.

 

[Dr G Oogle]

So, a couple of quick points:

1) Regardless of what you think about the topic, it was actually IRB-approved so it has actually been reviewed and found to be of some scientific validity. If you don't like the research, you're under no obligation to respond.
2) That said... as a matter of constructive criticism, and having published some respondent-based survey in the literature, I have to agree with some of the criticism that is being raised. I'm a little surprised your IRB approved this with such leading prompts and questions. I think if you try to publish this later, you're going to run into some very difficult to address reviewer feedback surrounding this problem, and I say this not to just pile on but to highlight that you're getting some mean but valid criticism that you should consider going forward. It actually completely undercuts your premise that your survey has potential to change policies, because you invite the kind of response that you received here. This is really important to consider when you are designing a study in this space.

IRB approval is not related to scientific validity only that subjects of the study are not at risk of injury.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

While I agree that some of the claims feminists make about sexism are pretty dubious, I think it's pretty disconcerting that everyone on here immediately jumped to bring down someone trying to shine a light on sexism.

Sexism is a real issue - I've had multiple friends tell me stories of residents/attendings hitting on them in a super persistent way that made them uncomfortable.

Yea, this isn't the best study design, but maybe we could suggest alternatives (ie, constructive criticism) instead of just criticism?

Isn't that sexual harassment? That's different than sexism.

 

[GoSpursGo]

IRB approval is not related to scientific validity only that subjects of the study are not at risk of injury.

At least where I have trained, there was a component of scientific review. Did not want even “minimal risk studies” if there was no scientific validity. Maybe not the case everywhere

 

[Dr G Oogle]

At least where I have trained, there was a component of scientific review. Did not want even “minimal risk studies” if there was no scientific validity. Maybe not the case everywhere

That’s generally an overextension of the IRBs authority, I think they will reject a study with no obvious validity because it does constitute an inconvenience to the subject, but beyond that it is not for them to determine scientific validity. My IRB sometimes does this and they need to be reminded of their actual role

 

[deleted1100659]

Genuine question…how do you actually verify that these responses are coming from med students? Seems like anybody with the link can fill it out. Is it like the honor principle?

lol that was my issue with it too. Without even getting into the questions that are very broad/not very specific/answers can be interpreted in many ways, I could fill this survey out 326 times with very interesting responses....

 

[Redpancreas]

Am I the only one who finds it strange that OP went through all this trouble to get an IRB for this and has their own name attached to this and is not coming back to address the questions here? Posting with their real name takes some guts and to me demonstrates that they're somewhat genuine. A quick google search reveals OP also has a prominent social media presence on YouTube, Tik Tok, etc. so they don't shy away from expressing their thoughts publicly. I would like to hear OP explain their rationale for the way the survey is done *instead of pandering to their followers on social media* (although they don't owe us that).

 

[DD214]

Too many microaggressions on this thread which culminated in a dreaded milliaggression from which the OP will never recover

 

[ujsc]

Genuine question…how do you actually verify that these responses are coming from med students? Seems like anybody with the link can fill it out. Is it like the honor principle?

This is a good point and an argument against use of a survey such as this type being allowed in sdn.

 

[Goro]

Too many microaggressions on this thread which culminated in a dreaded milliaggression from which the OP will never recover

I think that they're more in the realm of nano- or picoaggressions.

 

[Dr G Oogle]

It’s possible that the survey is a ruse and that the real study is analyzing the responses to the “study” kinda like this study Gendered Language on the Economics Job Market Rumors Forum - American Economic Association

It’s very meta

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

It’s possible that the survey is a ruse and that the real study is analyzing the responses to the “study” kinda like this study Gendered Language on the Economics Job Market Rumors Forum - American Economic Association

It’s very meta

How do these studies get around informed consent?

I think I remember a prof saying the Milgram experiment would never be conducted today due to the trickery

 

[Dr G Oogle]

How do these studies get around informed consent?

I think I remember a prof saying the Milgram experiment would never be conducted today due to the trickery

I think since it’s an anonymous forum there is no risk to the participant, so could even get an IRB exemption

 

[deleted1100659]

Am I the only one who finds it strange that OP went through all this trouble to get an IRB for this and has their own name attached to this and is not coming back to address the questions here? Posting with their real name takes some guts and to me demonstrates that they're somewhat genuine. A quick google search reveals OP also has a prominent social media presence on YouTube, Tik Tok, etc. so they don't shy away from expressing their thoughts publicly. I would like to hear OP explain their rationale for the way the survey is done *instead of pandering to their followers on social media* (although they don't owe us that).

i do not have accounts on social media, but once I figure out how to make a tiktok, and subsequently figure out how to search OP, i may look it up out of curiosity.