Roseman or Midwestern AZ

[jetbot33]

I'm starting to narrow down my list for schools I have interviewed at that I would prefer to go to when (and if) I get accepted. I am from southern California by the way.

I love both these schools. Let me tell you why:

MW AZ Pros:

• Great clinical program
• An ENORMOUS amount micromotor hand skills training. You do crowns, implants, extractions again and again until you are a master. Simply more than any other dental school.
• You get to do procedures that would typically get sent off to a specialist and that too, you do it all on the same day rather than wait weeks for another appointment and lose your patient.
• Huge focus on the latest and greatest of dental technology that is constantly being taught as soon as the technology exists
• Clean and new facility
• Awesome atmosphere
• Good curriculum
• D1 summer off to study for boards
• Seems like a many specialize. Number they gave me was something like 14 specialized and all of them made it.
• 5.5 hours from home

Cons:

• Arizona
• Price is high about $83,000 after tuition and fees.

Roseman Pros:

• AMAZING curriculum with block schedule that promotes the most efficient learning by focusing heavily on one course at a time and only moving on once you master it to a 90% mastery. This way, unlike other schools where you study for 15 classes at once, what you learn will be very high quality and you will definitely retain the knowledge better. Active learning such as group activities is also emphasized instead of classic lecturing.
• The curriculum seems to lower stress for many
• New technologies available as well as a very new and clean facility.
• Amazing student body and faculty that are just so personable and wonderful to be around. Definitely liked it more than MW even though MW was just lovely as well.
• The city is a nice area that I like

Cons:

• People on SDN (especially during2014) like to complain about it a lot mainly because of its newness and price.
• Price is about $83,000 after fees and tuition.
• 10 hours from home

Now I want to make a couple things clear. Price is clearly not an issue as they are so similarly priced. I don't mind spending even an extra $50k if I'm happier at that school and it's as simple as that so please refrain from debating about the price tag Also prestige is not an issue because I care about the education I receive and the level of care I will be able to provide after I graduate, not the name. Yes, I am thinking of specializing in ortho but that does not mean I would choose a school simply based on its name or price tag. Like many have said, no one knows who taught Micahel Jordan how to play basketball.

Can anyone offer their input? I know a great deal about MW AZ as I have already interviewed there but I am really looking for more info on Roseman. Is the patient pool decent? Will I get great clinical training? Is specializing difficult at Roseman? Any input on which to pick? Any students from either school?

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[DMDDDSHopeful]

Based upon reading that, to me, it sounds like you've already decided on MWU-AZ.

 

[Incis0r]

If I were fortunate enough to have an acceptance to MWU-AZ, there are very few schools....as in two that could potentially tear me away from my MWU-AZ acceptance letter.

Actually, now that winter is approaching, I look on with envy as my MWU-AZ friends enjoy the 70s while I'm buried in wind chills. So correction: there are zero schools that could tear me away from MWU-AZ xD

 

[Viva Terlingua]

"Cons: Arizona"

Made me lol

 

[fogorvostan]

If I were fortunate enough to have an acceptance to MWU-AZ, there are very few schools....as in two that could potentially tear me away from my MWU-AZ acceptance letter.

Actually, now that winter is approaching, I look on with envy as my MWU-AZ friends enjoy the 70s while I'm buried in wind chills. So correction: there are zero schools that could tear me away from MWU-AZ xD

Highs are still mid 90s all week here

 

[Cello]

Roseman Pros:

• AMAZING curriculum with block schedule that promotes the most efficient learning by focusing heavily on one course at a time and only moving on once you master it to a 90% mastery. This way, unlike other schools where you study for 15 classes at once, what you learn will be very high quality and you will definitely retain the knowledge better. Active learning such as group activities is also emphasized instead of classic lecturing.
• The curriculum seems to lower stress for many

It is the same here at MWU-AZ. We take all of our basic sciences in blocks and take 3 basic science courses per quarter. We have one exam every week, and our course load outside of the intense basic science curriculum is pretty relaxed.

• Amazing student body and faculty that are just so personable and wonderful to be around. Definitely liked it more than MW even though MW was just lovely as well.
• The city is a nice area that I like

The student body at Roseman is great from what I experienced, but it is at MWU-AZ too. We create study aids and share them with each other, we are happy to help struggling classmates succeed, and we do whatever we can to help each other achieve more. We are a tight-knit group, at only 6 weeks I know almost all 140 students in the class. One thing I found questionable at Roseman was just how much time the students spent away from school (one said he had a full-time job which I find to be both amazing and highly concerning if true!)

As far as the cities go, I lived in SLC for 10 years and am from Utah. So far I am happier in Arizona, especially because we don't have the brutal winters to look forward to. After so many decades of cold and snowy winters I am looking forward to mild temperatures and time spent outdoors when I would normally be scraping my windshield or shoveling snow! Like Utah, there is a huge amount of stuff you can do here in your down time.

Can anyone offer their input? I know a great deal about MW AZ as I have already interviewed there but I am really looking for more info on Roseman. Is the patient pool decent? Will I get great clinical training? Is specializing difficult at Roseman? Any input on which to pick? Any students from either school?

From my experience with Roseman (limited to dating a D4 and interviewing there) they seem to have a more relaxed curriculum than MWU. Everyone I know speaks highly of Roseman, but they don't to spend as much time in the clinic or in class as we do. The D1s/D2s who spoke to us on our interview date were very candid about the fact that they have a ton of free time. They take lots of trips to go climbing, hiking, biking, and several of them said that they have part-time jobs on the side (maybe they were all joking?). I don't know of anyone who has the time to work here at MWU.

If you want the best training possible, I think it comes down to how much time you spend honing your craft. It is really cool to be able to explore Utah and have a lot of fun with really laid back classmates, but I had the impression that would mean I would receive less clinical exposure and training than at a school like MWU.

Just my .02

I also interviewed at the University of Utah and I have to say, for two schools which are geographically so close together, they could not have been more different!

 

[Incis0r]

Highs are still mid 90s all week here

You think you're hilarious, don't you?
I will tell you one thing fogorvostan- I would go outside and walk my jealousy off RIGHT NOW if I didn't risk frostbite.

 

[fogorvostan]

You think you're hilarious, don't you?
I will tell you one thing fogorvostan- I would go outside and walk my jealousy off RIGHT NOW if I didn't risk frostbite.

I do. I think I'm the best
Kidding of course. The (almost) end of midterms week has me in a good mood! I'll even share some of my warm weather with you <3

 

[jetbot33]

Based upon reading that, to me, it sounds like you've already decided on MWU-AZ.

Believe it or not, I am still somehow biased toward Roseman. I know Midwestern is better clinically but.... I really, really just feel more at home at Roseman. Not sure why, but even though both schools are so friendly and inviting, I just have an affinity for Roseman for some reason. Sure this is minor in the grand scheme of things because I would eventually feel at home at either school, but I still just have this emotional bias. Beyond that, my girlfriend also lives near the school. I try really hard to keep my love life out of my career choices (and that is why I didn't include that point in my original post), but I can't pretend like that's not another draw for me.

"Cons: Arizona"
Yup that is ultimately what it comes down to. As a native Californian with family in Arizona, I used to go up there quite often and I never ever liked the heat or even the setting. I mean Arizona was basically the original reason why I decided I preferred to be cold lol! Sure it's a bit minor because I'll be inside with the A/C on all day but it's the only real negative I can think of.
Made me lol

It is the same here at MWU-AZ. We take all of our basic sciences in blocks and take 3 basic science courses per quarter. We have one exam every week, and our course load outside of the intense basic science curriculum is pretty relaxed.



The student body at Roseman is great from what I experienced, but it is at MWU-AZ too. We create study aids and share them with each other, we are happy to help struggling classmates succeed, and we do whatever we can to help each other achieve more. We are a tight-knit group, at only 6 weeks I know almost all 140 students in the class. One thing I found questionable at Roseman was just how much time the students spent away from school (one said he had a full-time job which I find to be both amazing and highly concerning if true!)

As far as the cities go, I lived in SLC for 10 years and am from Utah. So far I am happier in Arizona, especially because we don't have the brutal winters to look forward to. After so many decades of cold and snowy winters I am looking forward to mild temperatures and time spent outdoors when I would normally be scraping my windshield or shoveling snow! Like Utah, there is a huge amount of stuff you can do here in your down time.



From my experience with Roseman (limited to dating a D4 and interviewing there) they seem to have a more relaxed curriculum than MWU. Everyone I know speaks highly of Roseman, but they don't to spend as much time in the clinic or in class as we do. The D1s/D2s who spoke to us on our interview date were very candid about the fact that they have a ton of free time. They take lots of trips to go climbing, hiking, biking, and several of them said that they have part-time jobs on the side (maybe they were all joking?). I don't know of anyone who has the time to work here at MWU.

If you want the best training possible, I think it comes down to how much time you spend honing your craft. It is really cool to be able to explore Utah and have a lot of fun with really laid back classmates, but I had the impression that would mean I would receive less clinical exposure and training than at a school like MWU.

Just my .02

I also interviewed at the University of Utah and I have to say, for two schools which are geographically so close together, they could not have been more different!

Hey, thank you for your 2 cents. I love that you spent so much time detailing all of that for me. Thank you. Since you seem to know a good amount of Roseman, could you tell me more about their clinical? How decent is their clinical experience? Do you think the students there come out practice ready or do they need a residency to hone their skills? I heard on this forum that SLC is so saturated with dentists and 2 dental schools that the patient pool is limited and small. Is this the case? Will I get simple and limited cases that I have to fight for? Since you dated a D4 I'm assuming you have some knowledge

I guess what it comes down to is I would love to go to Roseman because I feel drawn to it emotionally. I just have a feeling like I am more at home there, like I would be more happy there? I think? Irrational right? But I want to make sure my clinical experience at Roseman is solid because in the end what matters the most is can I graduate dental school with fantastic hand skills that allow me to get out there and start working and hopefully end up working as a dentist in my home in San Diego.

 

[BYU4you]

If you want to work a job and go to school, go to Roseman. Id pick midwestern. If you are LDS, both are really big LDS spots especially for single people.


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[FanOfCostco]

Can anyone offer their input? I know a great deal about MW AZ as I have already interviewed there but I am really looking for more info on Roseman. Is the patient pool decent? Will I get great clinical training? Is specializing difficult at Roseman? Any input on which to pick? Any students from either school?

I graduated from roseman last year and I'm in residency right now in the east coast. Comparing my clinical experience to my co-residents, I had A LOT more. We don't have any specialties at the school to steal our cases so we pretty much do everything. My class didn't have many issues with getting into residencies. We had at least 1 person going to each speciality (except patho, but seriously..who wants to do patho?) I've heard that the current D4s have gotten a few guys that got accepted into perio already. If you have any questions feel free to message me.

PS. I am also from so cal. #sgv

 

[cacazor]

#sgv

Got any plans moving back home?
SGV seems saturated to say the least lol

 

[FanOfCostco]

Got any plans moving back home?
SGV seems saturated to say the least lol

They need a new term to describe SGV haha.
I have no idea where I'm going yet. I'll figure it out around Feb?

 

[Tooth Fairy 1]

I'm a lil bias cuz I'm a D2 at Roseman--Roseman all the way! I'm pretty familiar with the curriculum at Midwestern cuz my friends go there--as a D1 there he told me he hasn't worked with composite yet (they use wax). He also got into clinic a bit later than myself. At Roseman, we start sim lab Day 1 and use composite on day 1, do crown preps, work with articulator, complete cad/cam training, and go in clinic (yes clinic) end of D1 yr. I'm super happy here. I think you should just go with ur gut feeling though! Midwestern is more traditional lecture, large classrooms, independent study etc roseman is the opposite and some people have a preference on that too.

 

[fogorvostan]

I'm a lil bias cuz I'm a D2 at Roseman--Roseman all the way! I'm pretty familiar with the curriculum at Midwestern cuz my friends go there--they haven't even touched composite yet (they use wax cuz its cheaper) or had much experience with a drill! They also get in clinic later. At Roseman, we start sim lab Day 1 and use composite on day 1, do crown preps, work with articulator, complete cad/cam training, and go in clinic (yes clinic) end of D1 yr. I'm super happy here and just bias. I think you should just go with ur gut feeling though! Midwestern is more traditional lecture, large classrooms, independent study etc roseman is the opposite and some people have a preference on that too.

Are you sure they go to MWU AZ because that's definitely not true? We started with composite in the first month and the same with hand pieces. We have been doing endo accesses (again, since the first month) and class 1 preps. I'm not sure what you mean about getting in the clinic later as well. We go into the clinic during winter quarter as a D1 and we also start CAD/CAM in the spring. @Cello is a classmate of mine and can attest to this as well.

 

[Cello]

I'm a lil bias cuz I'm a D2 at Roseman--Roseman all the way! I'm pretty familiar with the curriculum at Midwestern cuz my friends go there--they haven't even touched composite yet (they use wax cuz its cheaper) or had much experience with a drill! They also get in clinic later. At Roseman, we start sim lab Day 1 and use composite on day 1, do crown preps, work with articulator, complete cad/cam training, and go in clinic (yes clinic) end of D1 yr. I'm super happy here and just bias. I think you should just go with ur gut feeling though! Midwestern is more traditional lecture, large classrooms, independent study etc roseman is the opposite and some people have a preference on that too.

I'm with @fogorvostan in that I don't know whom you would be talking to that hasn't touched composite by D2 year! We were in the SIM on day 1 as well, that was when we started our #8 wax up. We did our first endo access either week 2 or week 3, I don't remember now. Our first composite veneer was somewhere around our 3rd or 4th week I think. We have done dental dam placement, multiple endo accesses, caries assessment with fluoride veneer, stone impressions, class I preps on several teeth, and a wax up of #8, #29, #11, and #24 (I may have forgotten one). I rotated through the clinic a couple of weeks ago and assisted a D3 for about 5 hours. I was told that we are welcome to assist in the clinic at any time by my D3, though that is very suite dependent as I understand it. We only just wrapped up our first quarter (a little over 2 months). The D2s are in the SIM clinic a ton more than we are. They have practicals every other week, and they are drilling constantly on days inbetween.

I know that several classmates used the CAD/CAM on their wax ups just for the experience, but I haven't bothered. That is my own choice though, the equipment is available if you want to make use of it.

As far as the lecture stuff goes, I am curious now about how it works at Roseman. Do you guys not have a lecture hall? Most of our class does not attend the basic science courses, opting instead to just watch the lectures from home. I wouldn't say that we study independently though. I know that at Roseman you guys are all about your collaborative spreadsheets but we also collaborate. We create and share Quizlets, share and co-edit Google documents, and many of us study with groups. You can study independently if you want to, but our class is pretty cohesive and shares everything.

 

[Tooth Fairy 1]

@Cello I'm glad u did wax-ups on so many different teeth (wow #8, 29, 11, anddd 24) and assisted a upperclassman for 5 whole hours that's really impressive and I care a lot. Yes, like I said Midwestern starts their students off with wax as D1s and we use Composite only for all class preps and restorations. And we do go in clinic earlier. Our D1s can always assist (which is a given) but they are scheduled as part of the curriculum in clinic toward the end of their D1 year--meaning they go through rotations in clinic. CAD/CAM is also not a choice its part of our curriculum for our crown preps as D1s. They're just trying to push every class a bit more than the last because our school is transitioning to a 3 year program. Things have been really changing around here, I really wouldn't believe anyone's input unless they are actually a student at the school. So, despite what you said, though it is overall a more stress-free environment compared to other schools, I guarantee you I don't know 1 person who could hold a "full time job" from the D1/D2s. I'm personally super busy all the time but then again I'm very involved in a lot of leadership aspects at our school.

Not sure what your comment "collaborative spreadsheet" was even referring to. But to cease your curiously like I said we don't have a traditional lecture hall with hundreds of students. Our classrooms are hexagon shaped with 82 students, attendance is overall mandatory and for the most part pretty interactive. That may not be for everyone, its just a preference on how you learn best. I also have to add that the best part of our school is the faculty--they truly are amazing. I have conversations with Deans, my instructors and cpt leaders regularly as though we're friends, which coming from a huge University is new to me. And has def. opened some doors for me as well.

Anyway, to other people reading this I want to say I've gone to dental conferences and spoken to students from different schools all across the nation and I feel like everyone is getting a good education as a whole. Some like or dislike their dental school more that others. But regardless of where you go, America is the golden standard of dentistry and you will get a great education at almost any school you choose. Listen to that gut feeling you get at your interview. And don't stress about it too much 4 years flies by!

 

[Cello]

@Cello I'm glad u did wax-ups on so many different teeth (wow #8, 29, 11, anddd 24) and assisted a upperclassman for 5 whole hours that's really impressive and I care a lot.

Really classy response.

Yes, like I said Midwestern starts their students off with wax as D1s and we use Composite only for all class preps and restorations.

You incorrectly stated that students at our school haven't worked with composite and have hardly used handpieces by the time that you have done both (D2 year). You also incorrectly stated that we use wax because it is 'cheaper' as if composite is really that expensive... We do work with amalgam in the beginning, because our school believes that it is more difficult to master the hand skills required for amalgam than for composite, and so their philosophy is to over prepare us by training us for preps using retention and resistance form beyond just outline and convenience forms. All of our class I preps thus far have been for amalgam fillings.

The reason we wax is because our school, like many others, feels that there is no better way to learn dental anatomy than to have to craft it out of wax. Want to know how to capture the anatomy of a cusp of carabelli? Wax is a great way to learn. Also, I know that wax is still sometimes used in the clinic for treatment planning, the D3 I worked with said that he was happy he took it seriously as a D1. This is a philosophical difference, not an economic one. Why on earth would they pay so much extra for nicer teeth on our endo accesses if they were trying to cut corners and be cheap?

I really don't want this to turn into a pissing contest between our school and yours, because both are excellent clinical programs. I was simply responding to inaccurate information you gave about our program.

And we do go in clinic earlier. Our D1s can always assist (which is a given) but they are scheduled as part of the curriculum in clinic toward the end of their D1 year--meaning they go through rotations in clinic.

Our class started rotations our 6th week. How much earlier do you really need to start?

CAD/CAM is also not a choice its part of our curriculum for our crown preps as D1s.

I doubt you are great with a handpiece by your 2nd month unless you have golden hands, but who knows. Which do you think takes more practice though, hand skills or learning CAD/CAM?

In my opinion, CAD/CAM can wait, hence why I have spent my time practicing my hand skills instead. Besides, we have plenty of time and opportunity to play with the flashy toys later.

 

[fogorvostan]

Really classy response.



You incorrectly stated that students at our school haven't worked with composite and have hardly used handpieces by the time that you have done both (D2 year). You also incorrectly stated that we use wax because it is 'cheaper' as if composite is really that expensive... We do work with amalgam in the beginning, because our school believes that it is more difficult to master the hand skills required for amalgam than for composite, and so their philosophy is to over prepare us by training us for preps using retention and resistance form beyond just outline and convenience forms. All of our class I preps thus far have been for amalgam fillings.

The reason we wax is because our school, like many others, feels that there is no better way to learn dental anatomy than to have to craft it out of wax. Want to know how to capture the anatomy of a cusp of carabelli? Wax is a great way to learn. Also, I know that wax is still sometimes used in the clinic for treatment planning, the D3 I worked with said that he was happy he took it seriously as a D1. This is a philosophical difference, not an economic one. Why on earth would they pay so much extra for nicer teeth on our endo accesses if they were trying to cut corners and be cheap?

I really don't want this to turn into a pissing contest between our school and yours, because both are excellent clinical programs. I was simply responding to inaccurate information you gave about our program.



Our class started rotations our 6th week. How much earlier do you really need to start?



I doubt you are great with a handpiece by your 2nd month unless you have golden hands, but who knows. Which do you think takes more practice though, hand skills or learning CAD/CAM?

In my opinion, CAD/CAM can wait, hence why I have spent my time practicing my hand skills instead. Besides, we have plenty of time and opportunity to play with the flashy toys later.

Also, CAD/CAM is required as a D1. You can learn it early or you can wait until spring when its scheduled.

I agree with @Cello here. Both schools are great. It's extremely unprofessional though to go around on the internet and state incorrect statements about another program

 

[Tooth Fairy 1]

@fogorvostan @Cello I actually decided I'm going to stop responding to this post, its really out of character for me to join in on your pissing contest. I initially came to give the pre-dent advice on my school, because I read things you had wrote, that I, as an attending student wouldn't agree with. I really do have better things to do with my life.

 

[Incis0r]

I gotta say, @fogorvostan and @Cello , I love the camaraderie & MWU-AZ pride the two of you are consistently displaying. It shows me that you are extremely satisfied with the quality of the program, and that is awesome.

 

[Cello]

@Cello I actually said my friend at Midwestern is a D1 (class of 2019) I actually never stated he was a D2. We were talking every other wk he was using wax, hadn't done a crown prep or used the drill until much later than me. And I continued to state that composite for our school was used on day 1. Not sure y u have to be butt hurt about the truth and write a page long pissing contest when I wasn't even talking to you. Getting down CAD/CAM isn't a substitution for anything--we get crown preps down and we get CAD/CAM down--its nice the faculty make time to train us for that as well early on. You should go continue to go to "wax-ups for teeth #8, 29, 11, anddd 24 and assist a upperclassman for 5 whole hours" lol so mature of you. And composite is actually very expensive in comparison to wax. @fogorvostan he also was in sim clinic but started actual clinic rotations with patients later than our prospective time. I wasn't spewing out any falsehoods. They were facts to what I knew them to be. I said both programs were great previously.

I am a D1 (class of 2020) so I don't know how it is possible that your friend is a D1 and class of 2019. Reading back at your post I don't see anywhere that you indicated your friend's class. You made a comparison to yourself as a D2 which leads the reader to assume that you are comparing yourself to another D2 as that is the only logical comparison. Which begs the question, why are you comparing your experience as a D2 to the experience of a D1 at another program? As for the rest of your post, I think it's a shame that you again resort to patronization and personal attacks but that is clearly your prerogative.

 

[fogorvostan]

I gotta say, @fogorvostan and @Cello , I love the camaraderie & MWU-AZ pride the two of you are consistently displaying. It shows me that you are extremely satisfied with the quality of the program, and that is awesome.

I actually just spent part of my day today with some predental students from a local school helping them with a waxing tutorial and intro to composite. It was a lot of fun telling them what we have to offer at our school. Our preclinical dean also told us today that we have a D3 who has already placed 35 (yes, 35 and yes, actually placed) implants since he started in the clinic in May. Absolutely blew my mind!

 

[bb2014]

 

[yaya97]

Bump! Any updated thoughts on this?

I've already put a deposit for MWU-AZ but just got Roseman interview and wondering if I should attend.

Roseman seems more laid back in terms of time. Not sure how clinical experience compares as MWU is excellent in that regard.

Also I'm concerned that as a young single guy, MWU seems very not diverse in that it is tons of older causaiab students, the majority of whom are married. Roseman seems more diverse from what I can tell

You’ll meet lots of single people if you go to the mountainside gym down the street from MWU lol don’t know how old you are but there’s always old town you can go party there and meet people or go to trashy mill and meet lots of ASU people.