Ross and St. George's University

[history _ice]

Hey everyone,

I wanted to know if anyone coud give me advise on what to do for next year. My chances of getting into an american medical school are very slim, becuse of my low MCAT score, however, I have an interview scheduled for Ross University, But i'm not sure if I want to go to a Foreign medical school. I have heard different opinions on the benefits and consequences of getting an MD from a Foreign school. Some say that as long as you get your MD from somewhere accredited it doesn't matter, however, i have also heard that it would hinder my chances of obtaining residency.

I want to know if there are people and the same situation. And whether I should take a few years off do research and/or obtain a masters then reapply or i should just got to either Ross or st.George's. I'm so confused


Thank you

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[TTSD]

*cough* We have a forum for these types of questions!

That being said.. yes, it will make obtaining competitive residencies harder, if not almost impossible. If you want such residencies like opthamology or dermatology, the board better be all close relatives of yours.

However, if you want IM, FP, and certain specialties or even gen. surgery.. those two schools, with AUC are perfectly viable and accredited in all 50 states.

 

[skypilot]

good answer. SGU is the top school but it is very expensive.

 

[lisa13579]

I've posted this before, but my significant other went to St. Matthew's and is now in a preliminary year of surgery. It WAS definitely harder for him to get a residency spot, he ended up having to "scramble" because he didn't match. If you don't know what the scramble is, it's a ridiculously crazy and stressful 48 hour period for people who didn't match. The list of unmatched programs comes out and you start calling and faxing your application like mad, hoping to secure a spot over the phone. I agree that it would be much easeier to get an internal med or family practice spot because these MANY positions go unmatched in these specialties. My s.o. got a general surgery spot, probably by luck, but since it's a prelim spot, he is going thru the match AGAIN this year, which needless to say is extremely stressful and expensive, while working 90 hours a week (YES, the 80 hour work week is not quite there yet). He has already gotten 3 rejections from programs for next year, even though he will have had ONE YEAR OF SURGERY behind him. I don't get it. Part of it is probably his board scores, they are not that great. So if you do really well on your boards, it can only help I'm sure. I can't really answer the question for you about what you should do, but if you do decide to go to a foreign school, just know that your road will be a little tougher, but in the end you will still be an MD. PM me if you have any more questions.

 

[meanderson]

lisa,

st mathews is different from SGU and Ross. Lots of SGU people get general aurg category prorgams. A good number of Ross students get gen cat surgery programs. After that, the pickings are pretty slim.

If you are going carrib, go to SGU or Ross. Both will put you ata huge disadvantage for getting a residency, and you shouldn't expect to get the one you want from either, but they do have better placements than the other carrib schools.

 

[lisa13579]

That is probably true, I just wanted to share the experience that I knew. But you are right, I have heard that Ross is the "Harvard of the Carribean".

 

[DocileMD]

Originally posted by meanderson
lisa,

st mathews is different from SGU and Ross. Lots of SGU people get general aurg category prorgams. A good number of Ross students get gen cat surgery programs. After that, the pickings are pretty slim.

If you are going carrib, go to SGU or Ross. Both will put you ata huge disadvantage for getting a residency, and you shouldn't expect to get the one you want from either, but they do have better placements than the other carrib schools.

I will second this statement; definitely go to SGU or Ross. I requested a brochure from SGU fron their website and they include a list of all of their residency placements and they actually got some pretty damn good spots with a large number of surgical spots.

I even have a friend that works at my school's teaching hospital here as a FP resident, he graduated from SGU, and he is just as happy as any other doctor I know or have talked to.

I am also looking into going the Carrib. route since I have made some mistakes during undergrad and, after all of my research into the subject, it seems that most everyone that has gone that path is perfectly happy with how they have ended up. Just go to valuemd.com and they have forums specifically for SGU and Ross as well as other Carrib. and foreign schools....see what the people there say and ask lots of questions, it will certainly help you to make your decision.

HTH...

 

[meanderson]

bottom line:

disadvantages of carribean(ross, SGU) md:
1) you most likely wont be be able to enter certain specialties(derm, ortho), will have a hard time enterting top 10 IM programs, and will have a harder time entering semi-competitve specialties(gas)

2) The living conditions won't be as good and you won't feel as "proud" saying you are a student at SGU than you would at your state school

3) Your loans after graduating will be much higher than if you went to a state school as state resident. They will likely be about the same if you go to a private school like tufts, temple, tulane, etc

4) Depending on the hospital, the rotations and rotation schedule will be a bit more disorganized


advantages
1) There is a myth that all SGU and Ross grads are doing FP in an undesirable area. This is simply not true. 30% of the class will end up doing fp, 35% IM with some of those later doing a fellowship, and the other 35% usually is made up of gas, rads, gsurg, and EM. A small number(3-5% total) might match into ortho, optho, rads, uro, etc

2) Assuming you are a US citizen and pass step 1, there is a 100% chance you will get a residency as an SGU or Ross grad. And there is close to a 100% chance that it won't be FP or IM at a really ghetto hospital. Most of the mediocre Ross and SGU students end up doing IM and FP residencies and mediocre in decent(not good-great) university hospitals. It's the pakistani, lebanese, and indian FMG's who need green cards who end up in the real ghetto hospitals.

3) You will become a US physician with all the rights and priv. of physicians who went to LCME schools.

does it have the potential to inpact your career in a negative way? Of course. But posters like Amit1 who compare carribean MD's(who have completed residencies in the US) to podiatrists and chiropractors are clearly not in touch with reality.

 

[link26]

shiet won't matter when you:

1. score high on usmle
2. kiss ass
3. earn $150,000+/year.

I've never asked my doctors where they graduated from. I think 99% of my future patients won't ask me either.
My impression is that you can get a better education at these two carib schools than the shiettiest US schools. If i had to choose between Meharry and Ross, I'd go with ross.
In the long run, it all comes down to your skills. not where you graduated from IMO.

 

[spinestudent]

link, picking ross over meharry would be dumb. If you can make a 240 step 1 at ross, you could do the same at meharry.

Carribean schools are a great optiopn for certain students, but under no circumstances should one choose ANY foreign school(carribean, ireland, OZ, etc) over ANY Allopathic american school.

 

[fernj1975]

link26 what are you smoking? I must be really good since you made a pretty dumb comment. For your information Meharry is not a ****ty school (although it might have it's faults) it should not be compared to Ross. I'm not here to flame Ross but in all seriousness, there are so many benefits in attending a U.S medical school that it would be inconceivable to select a Caribbean school over a U.S one (regardless of their reputation). Also attending an American medical school basically guarantees you a residency in American soil whereas going overseas will severely hamper your options and chances. I do think that anyone who is highly motivated and determined can succeed coming from a Caribbean school, but why make it harder for yourself in attending a foreign medical school ? (granted you had an option in attending a U.S school).

 

[greatdane]

my opinion? try for three years to get in US allopathic .....then re-evalutate. Continue to try or try for a US DO school...if no luck..then do Ross or SGU....and if you take link's advice about Ross or SGU over Meharry...well, you are just proving Darwins laws of natural selection apply to med school selection as well.....because you are selecting yourself right out of the game...good luck

 

[meanderson]

greatdane, I would disagree that all applicants should try three years to get into an american school before going carrib. Some should try 1 year only. Some 2. Some shouldn't go at all.

Suppose 1 guy spends three years reapplying and reapplying and ends up at jefferson. He does an IM residency at a mid level uni hospital(decided not to do a fellowship). His debt level will be slightly higer than the Ross student, who also did an IM residency. Guess what? They are both practicing IM, making the same money in a similar type practice, and one grad wasted three years of his life....

Now all of this changes if the Jefferson stuent in his third year dedcided he wanted to do optho or something. This wouldnt be an option for the ross grad. But let's be honest, it they are the type of student who took three years getting into jeff anyways, they probably arent the type of person who will be matchng urology.

 

[exmike]

Why wouldnt someone that took three years to get into jeff not match urology? Since when does someone's before medical school record have anything to do with residency. If anything the person that struggled to get in will work harder in med school and get his/her choice of residency.

Originally posted by meanderson
But let's be honest, it they are the type of student who took three years getting into jeff anyways, they probably arent the type of person who will be matchng urology.

 

[LUBDUBB]

Originally posted by meanderson

Guess what? They are both practicing IM, making the same money in a similar type practice, and one grad wasted three years of his life....

But let's be honest, it they are the type of student who took three years getting into jeff anyways, they probably arent the type of person who will be matchng urology.

Not to be mean, but dude, you need to take a logic class.

 

[AndyDufrane]

If your orginal intent was going to a US school, IMO, you're better off going to DO over Carriebean school, I am currently an MS1 at a U.S. med school, it took me 1 master's program, a year of AmeriCorp, and a 30 on the MCAT to get into a U.S. med school over a 2 year period, I think the magic number is 3 times, if you don't get in within 3 times to a U.S. school, consider DO over carribean, b/c with DO you are still a U.S. grad, and in some of my classes, we have DO doc teaching us, all in all, who the hell wants to a foreign country when you can stay right her ein the good ole U.S. of A.also, who ever said they would pick Ross of Meharry is gotta be smoking crach, why would you put yourself at such a disadvantage intentionally

 

[link26]

yes, there are many benefits for going to medical school in the US no doubt.

Based on what little knowledge I have about these schools, my reason for preferring ross/sgu over meharry is Meharry's horrible USMLE pass rates. I was assuming that Meharry teachers sucked, accounting for the 70% pass rate.

If I had no choice but to go to the lowest ranked med schools, I'd consider the one that provides the best education/training..... even if that means going to the Carribs, especially caribb schools that turn out 90+% pass rates and 95+% US residency acceptances.

I don't have much faith in a school that puts out a 70% pass rate. It puts into question their quality of education. And when you're vying for the crappiest residency spots, I think education quality plays an even more important role.

Again, I'm assuming Meharry is a crappy school and that sgu/ross have better teachers and facilities, and no doubt, a way higher USMLE pass rate. If I could get a hold of Meharry's match list, I could make a less-uninformed choice

 

[discusdan]

First of all what is wrong with Meharry? And second, I have a buddy who was accepted to a foreign school and was planning on attending but late in the process was accepted by a DO school in the states and chose to attend there instead. He is happy with his choice.

 

[discusdan]

sorry, didnt catch the above post. a 70 percent pass rate is pretty scary. Are there other schools with such low scores.

 

[fernj1975]

link26 You are seriously misguided in your information. I don?t know where you got this 70 percent passing rate but I can tell you from being here that you are dead on wrong. If you don?t believe go to the link below. There are some truly awful professors everywhere you go, and there are some very talented professors in most school also (not excluding Meharry). For you information we even get lectured from professors from Vanderbilit Medical school due to the ?Meharry-Vanderbilt alliance? again go to the link below to learn more. Since I?ve been here (2nd year student), our class has been at or above the national average in the NBME shelf exams that we take after our final exams (gross anatomy was the lone exception). If you are a serious student and is motivated there is no reason why you can?t succeed at Meharry. As far as our match list, we matched 3 people in Orthopaedic surgery last year along with a bunch in general surgery and one student at the Mayo clinic for ENT. A lot others matched at Vanderbilt (about 15 or so), so that is not too shabby. Before you make wild and unproven statements I would do my homework next time. Good luck.



http://www.meharry-vanderbilt.org/index.htm
http://www.mmc.edu/MMC/News/Main/hartford_courant_article.html

 

[link26]

thanks for that info.

but it was on this forum that I read about the ~70% pass rate of USMLE step one

I know about that article already, and it only talks about the 97% pass rate of step two. It neglects to mention the results for step one. ......

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

I think he was referring to Step I. I have heard similar numbers.


I don't think the Caribbean meds have 90%+ pass rate. I heard they were similar if not lower than the HBCUs. Their average GPA/MCAT are similar so it would make sense if their pass rates were similar.