Ross vs. D.O.

[McGillGrad]

Please click on the following link, to see just how vigorously MacGillgrad is pro IMG in all instances.God, he is a defensive, rationalising SOB...right NOVA? While there you may also read my objective posts regarding the IMG vs. DO debate.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=274799

LOL... funny how assumptions can be premature sometimes

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[novacek88]

"oh, well, yes there are but there are so few, and who pays attention to them anyway?" ( paraphrasing admittedly).

I love you ignored the fact there are far more of these threads posted in the caribbean forum as opposed to the osteopathic forums. Do you think that's a coincidence? You took me literally as opposed to applying some common sense and gathering the overall point I was making. Of course, there are DO vs. IMG threads there but no to the same degree they are presented here.

Also friend, why on earth would you assume to represent all those who might express interest in obtaining info. on the DO degree? Do you know them all? Last time I checked, the US is a land comprised of immigrants, many of whom are well travelled, and many of whom might very well be interested in settling/practicing elsewhere someday.

But that's not the populace we were targeting. The people who are truly struggling with this question are U.S. citizens who grew up and attended college here. They are concerned with matching in the best residency possible. Foreign students have an idea they want to go back to their respective countries and practice medicine thus the DO is not even an option for them.


Also I have had the pleasure of teaching 2nd year US MD students how to actually perform H & Ps at a clinical site in chicago. I am still in liason with one of the students helping them to prepare for their USMLE ( their choice bud ). Finally, as I have mentioned before, I have already prematched at an academic program in the chicago area ( not even sure if I will take it ), thanks to a very strong work ethic, better than average US med student step I score, and strong clinical skills.

Well that's lovely but I'm a second year IM resident who matched in a very competitive fellowship (top 2). I'm currently teaching third year IMG's who are rotating at my program. I teach losers like you.

Although you did get me on the intubation. I was under the impression that that particular skill fell under the job description of lets say an anesthesiologist.

Wrong and maybe if you were not some poser medical student, you would understand that internal medicine residents particularly in the ICU intubate patients regularly. Pediatricians also do this. Intubation is not limited to anesthesiologists. Ouch, how does it feel to be exposed for a complete poser. Any 4th year resident knows other fields aside from gas intubates patients.

Though now that you mention it we did have a DO student last week do the intubation on an ASA IV patient with angioedema. This cat was so cool he did not even use Sux. I dare you, venture over to the anesthesiology forum and tell those guys how its a basic skill of a MED. STUDENT and watch as your virtaul ass gets handed to you. While over there tell Jet, Mil and Noyac I send my regards.

Yeah, and while you are at it, tell them that only gas students intubate and watch them laugh their ass off at you like I'm doing now. Several areas of medicine deal with intubating patients like I mentioned above.

Your posts are very telling of you insecurities, and what is even more shocking, your inadequacies. Are you really a third year student? And if so I fail to believe that you are representative of the general DO student population.

Your posts are telling that you are a typical IMG that isn't well trained if they feel intubating patients isn't something a third year student should be proficient in. Furthermore, several medical schools offer intubating labs in which they practice the skill set on manequins prior to starting clinicals. What's wrong, they didn't teach this to you poor IMG's, oh gee what a shocker!

To your next post.

 

[novacek88]

I am now going to school you for the second time in one night

Schooling...you mean like how you basically revealed your ignorance to the entire forum by suggesting only anesthesiologists are proficient in intubating patients and that third year students don't learn this skill. LOL...Nice

The DO degree is recognised internationally, JUST NOT AS UNIVERSALLY AS THE MD DEGREE.

Whoah, you got mere there, I didn't use the word UNIVERSALLY! Nevermind the fact that other DO's also accept that our degree is not recognized in many countries. Nevermind the fact that DO students themselves will often tell people that our degree is not recognized internationally. Yes a few countries such as Britain have made efforts to recognize our degree. Yes, I know this but generally speaking we are not recgonized internationally. I think it's hilarious how you feel like you are schooling me by arguing semantics. If I were you, I would be more concerned with learning the "rare" skill set of intubation.

Seriously though, you are in DO school right, not just one of those pathetic premed internet geeks claiming to be a current MD/DO student?

And are you really a 4th year student who "pre-matched"? I find that hard to believe. Any 4th year who has rotated in Peds, Medicine and Surgery would know that third year students are taught how to intubate patients. Frankly, I think you are full of $h!t. Have you even started medical school?

As for the rest of your weak diatribe I could toss you around all night like a cat does a ball of yarn.

You just got exposed for your lack of knowledge regarding patient intubation and you are tossing me around? Okay

Why recently in the anesthesiology forum, a DO student was lamenting the fact that they had failed step I twice, and was seeking advice about how to proceed in obtaining an anesthesia residency.

Do we really need to bring up all the IMGs who have failed Step I and their stories on SDN? Do you really want to go there? I could just as easily do a search and find several more IMG's with a similar account. Trust me, don't go there. There are more than enough IMG sob stories on these boards. Furtheremore, there are U.S. M.D. students who fail Step I also. I suppose we should generalize all U.S. M.D.'s too based on their students who failed Step I.

No disrespect to that student...but please ...refrain from the holier-than-thou attitude with respect to Board scores/ Passing rates and the like.

How is it being holier-than-thou for simply stating a fact? We have higher board scores. I'm sorry you can't handle the truth.

Oh, you did make a good point about NYskindoc. Your bantering skills are unparalled. Yep, if a dermatologist has an opinion...we should interpret it as THE TRUTH.

Well, let's see, he did match into arguably the most competitive field in medicine. So I'm certain he knows a thing or two regarding medicine. But nah, let's ignore him and trust the advice of a Caribbean student such as yourself.

If you are indeed a 4th year then your training must have been severely substandard for you to escape your third year without intubating several patients particularly in an ICU or PICU setting. However, feel free to correct my grammar and argue semantics. That's the only thing you can do to me because you just revealed your ignorance to millions reading this. There is no way a 4th year medical student got through third year without intubating patients unless they were at a really weak program. And if you did attend a weak program, it just reinforces what I have been saying about IMG's. But I will let you have the last word. I'm sure you will discover some spelling and grammar mistakes . I'm done with this thread. I'm convinced you are a poser.

 

[novacek88]

I'll add my 2 cents. I agree that DO's have more doors open to them than Caribbean MD's. For example, I'm currently doing an orthopaedic surgery rotation at the Cleveland Clinic, one of the best hospital systems in the US. The two residents who I have been working with are both...DO's. Don't believe that argument that an MD is an MD. It matters a lot where you get that MD.

We had a guy in my class match there for derm. The Cleveland Clinic is very DO friendly and one of the top programs in the country

 

[bulletproof]

You must be living in the Matrix because anyone living in the real world would not be bragging to the forum that an FMG can match anywhere. Obviously you can't make the distinction between the terms probability and. possibility. Please, you can give 150% but that's not going to mean jack when your IMG status will get you banned from several programs. Yeah, maybe 4 Ross grads out of 400 grads will match in radiology somewhere so for all intents and purposes, you practically have no shot. Listen, if you are dumb enough to choose Ross over a DO school then be prepared to live with the consequences aka primary care. And we have heard it all before. Yeah, you will be different. You will crush the boards, as if it's so easy. Yes, give some more brilliant advice. Tell everyone to gamble by going to Ross so that you can be the one guy out of 400 students that got orthopedic surgery.

writes the second year IM resident ( no offense to the many non- obnoxious IM and other primary care docs.)

You just continue to keep making an ass of yourself. Far be it from me to stop you. I usually have to pay for this kind of entertainment. Also thanks for clearing up the intubation thing. I never stated it was exclusively an anesthesiology procedure. I do however find it implausible that you claim to have third year med students running about your hospita completely adept at this 'basic skill'. I remember not too long ago reading a thread on here with US med students griping about how they had not learned to place central lines, do phlebotomy and other things and were afraid about starting residency sans these skills. But, I am sure they were all very comfortable intubating, right? Mr. hotshot IM resident? Did I mention Ross' has a large, large amount of IM residents. You know, you could have gone there and would not have to spend so much time on here justifying your DO decision. Its o.k. though. DOs make good doctors too.

As for your other drivle, I will catch up with you later. There is a seminar today on how to gain access to IM residencies for all the FMGs. Would not want to miss that!
P.S. Did I mention the program I prematched at is IM. Only, that is just for my internship. See, I actually plan on going into a moderately competitive field. Ouch!

 

[bulletproof]

Here is one link you might find useful pertaining to the massive amounts of intubation seen amongst 3rd year students. Please note that only one poster claims to have intubated, and low and behold....she was on an anethesia rotation.I particularly liked the post by the student who claimed she had not even got near a patient yet. Oh, and please read more diligently. I am just finishing third year. You keep referring to me as a 4th year student. I have not done an ICU, anesthesia, or ER/trauma rotation as of yet, and thus have not done any intubating. Neither had the UIC students I did my IM rotation with. Way to call me out on being a poser....

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/printthread.php?t=268392&page=1&pp=25

 

[novacek88]

Here is one link you might find useful pertaining to the massive amounts of intubation seen amongst 3rd year students. Please note that only one poster claims to have intubated, and low and behold....she was on an anethesia rotation.I particularly liked the post by the student who claimed she had not even got near a patient yet. Oh, and please read more diligently. I am just finishing third year. You keep referring to me as a 4th year student. I have not done an ICU, anesthesia, or ER/trauma rotation as of yet, and thus have not done any intubating. Neither had the UIC students I did my IM rotation with. Way to call me out on being a poser....

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/printthread.php?t=268392&page=1&pp=25

I'm a second year that just earned a spot in a very competitive fellowship, one that almost never takes IMG's such yourself. Furthermore, the quality and competitiveness of IM programs vary considerably. And I don't need to read that link since I personally teach students this skill and so does every other IM resident at a decent program. And I know you are lying because programs that are likely to pre-match are those that have trouble filling such as weak IM and FP sites. Where did you supposedly pre-match? I know you didn’t pre-match at UIC because that is a competitive program and they wouldn’t pre-match an IMG for one of their medicine spots. Furthermore, you just finished your 3rd year. How did you supposedly pre-match so early? Most students pre-match during interviews which occur duing 4th year. If you are going to lie, I suggest you research the topic first. Did the PD just love your warm and loving personality despite the fact that you were learning skills for the first time? LOL, Audition rotations occur at the start of your 4th year which is usually when students pre-match. This is why I assumed you were a 4th year but now that you tell you are finishing 3rd year, I'm even more convinced you are lying. PD’s don’t usually offer these positions to students in the middle of their 3rd year. I suppose it's possible if the program goes unfilled every single year and the PD is desperate enough to grant this position to a third year student. Yes, please tell us where you "pre-matched" you whiz kid you. This should be good for a laugh. Did you just show up to the rotation and the PD said: "Hey kid, do you want a spot?"

What is even more amusing is I personally know some GI fellows at UIC who were medicine residents there. You are talking about the University of Illinois at Chicago correct? LOL, you are so busted pal. I know for a fact the medical students at UIC spend time in the ICU as a part of their IM months. So there is no way in hell you were at UIC and didn't learn to intubate patients. There is no way a third year student who spent weeks doing IM, Surgery and Peds didn’t intubate at least one patient. Either you are lying or your resident or attending decided to ignore you for a month(s) which is hard to believe.

 

[Remiller]

You guys have too much time on your hands. Please remember the purpose of this forum.

 

[bulletproof]

I'm a second year that just earned a spot in a very competitive fellowship, one that almost never takes IMG's such yourself. Furthermore, the quality and competitiveness of IM programs vary considerably. And I don't need to read that link since I personally teach students this skill and so does every other IM resident at a decent program. And I know you are lying because programs that are likely to pre-match are those that have trouble filling such as weak IM and FP sites. Where did you supposedly pre-match? I know you didn’t pre-match at UIC because that is a competitive program and they wouldn’t pre-match an IMG for one of their medicine spots. Furthermore, you just finished your 3rd year. How did you supposedly pre-match so early? Most students pre-match during interviews which occur duing 4th year. If you are going to lie, I suggest you research the topic first. Did the PD just love your warm and loving personality despite the fact that you were learning skills for the first time? LOL, Audition rotations occur at the start of your 4th year which is usually when students pre-match. This is why I assumed you were a 4th year but now that you tell you are finishing 3rd year, I'm even more convinced you are lying. PD’s don’t usually offer these positions to students in the middle of their 3rd year. I suppose it's possible if the program goes unfilled every single year and the PD is desperate enough to grant this position to a third year student. Yes, please tell us where you "pre-matched" you whiz kid you. This should be good for a laugh. Did you just show up to the rotation and the PD said: "Hey kid, do you want a spot?"

What is even more amusing is I personally know some GI fellows at UIC who were medicine residents there. You are talking about the University of Illinois at Chicago correct? LOL, you are so busted pal. I know for a fact the medical students at UIC spend time in the ICU as a part of their IM months. So there is no way in hell you were at UIC and didn't learn to intubate patients. There is no way a third year student who spent weeks doing IM, Surgery and Peds didn’t intubate at least one patient. Either you are lying or your resident or attending decided to ignore you for a month(s) which is hard to believe.

I am not going to divulge to you where I prematched only in the interest of anonymity. Suffice it to say that I have indeed secured a one year IM internship at a hospital where I completed three months of IM rotation. I have no reason to lie. I was asked to return by the department director. That was months ago. Since then, I have been working in the one of the Residency directors IM offices weekly ( seperate from my current rotation). I have already signed a contract. I was asked to return ( as I was informed) based on my strong interpersonal skills, work ethic and knowledge base. I have even been out to dinner with the program director and their spouse on two seperate occasions.The PD is not now, nor never has been desperate. Last year these very coveted spots were all filled by US MD grads entering very competitive fields. The PD is an interesting individual who tends to focus on the individual person applicant rather than the school, but given your clear bigotry, I don't expect you to even understand that concept.I agree that it may not be USUAL to be offered a postion as a third year, but that does not mean it did not happen. I am unsure as to why you find this so difficult to believe. Again, I really have no reason to lie about this. In fact, prior to even beginning to argue with you on this thread, I had posted this info in other threads on a different topic. Do you truly believe I have this fake internet person that i have been keeping up for years?. If so, you must live in a very paranoid world.
Also, I maintain that I did rotate with UIC students, and also have friends that go to school there. On the portion of my IM clerkship where I was in contact with UIC students ( not ICU ), neither they nor I had any oppurtunity to perform intubations. I had the option of doing an ICU month, but chose telemetry instead, as I had another institution lined up for an ICU month. I am scheduled to start that rotation in July ( 4th year). So, no...you are not busting anyone. But hey...if it helps you sleep at night.
Also, just because students at your instituion do intubations as 3rd years does not mean it is the norm by any standard. If you had used the link you might come to that realisation. But then, you chose not to read the link. Interesting the way that works. For the record, we were taught how to intubate during our fifth semester ( beginning of 3rd year ). However, as I have stated given that I opted to do my ICU month outside of my IM rotation I did not have an opportunity to hone those skills.
Finally....there are tons of IMG cardiologists and GI docs.....tons.I am guessing you are going into one of these two right? Good job! Once you come out you will be no better than anyone else, unless of course you choose to go into academia. If so, more power to you..that leaves more patients for all the rest of the private practice docs making the big bucks. If you are in private practice..who cares whether you went to Harvard IM, or podunk community hospital IM. What, can you bill medicare more for your 7 minute office visit? Or charge more for a stress test? Enlighten us.
Anyway....I'm done with you. You went the DO route and ended up in IM.Gotta love all that rounding huh? You are a dime a dozen friend, and you can't even travel with your degree. Any one who applies themselves and goes the carib route can do both. Who is the loser now?

 

[medhacker]

I hate to add fire to this mess of a thread, but just to clarify a couple of things:

DOs can do medical mission work anywhere in the world and a large number of countries accept DOs for full practice (more coming up in the near future)

Nonetheless, please stop all this DO vs IMG nonsense.

 

[novacek88]

I am not going to divulge to you where I prematched only in the interest of anonymity. Suffice it to say that I have indeed secured a one year IM internship at a hospital where I completed three months of IM rotation. I have no reason to lie. I was asked to return by the department director. That was months ago. Since then, I have been working in the one of the Residency directors IM offices weekly ( seperate from my current rotation). I have already signed a contract. I was asked to return ( as I was informed) based on my strong interpersonal skills, work ethic and knowledge base. I have even been out to dinner with the program director and their spouse on two seperate occasions.The PD is not now, nor never has been desperate. Last year these very coveted spots were all filled by US MD grads entering very competitive fields. The PD is an interesting individual who tends to focus on the individual person applicant rather than the school, but given your clear bigotry, I don't expect you to even understand that concept.I agree that it may not be USUAL to be offered a postion as a third year, but that does not mean it did not happen. I am unsure as to why you find this so difficult to believe. Again, I really have no reason to lie about this. In fact, prior to even beginning to argue with you on this thread, I had posted this info in other threads on a different topic. Do you truly believe I have this fake internet person that i have been keeping up for years?. If so, you must live in a very paranoid world.
Also, I maintain that I did rotate with UIC students, and also have friends that go to school there. On the portion of my IM clerkship where I was in contact with UIC students ( not ICU ), neither they nor I had any oppurtunity to perform intubations. I had the option of doing an ICU month, but chose telemetry instead, as I had another institution lined up for an ICU month. I am scheduled to start that rotation in July ( 4th year). So, no...you are not busting anyone. But hey...if it helps you sleep at night.
Also, just because students at your instituion do intubations as 3rd years does not mean it is the norm by any standard. If you had used the link you might come to that realisation. But then, you chose not to read the link. Interesting the way that works. For the record, we were taught how to intubate during our fifth semester ( beginning of 3rd year ). However, as I have stated given that I opted to do my ICU month outside of my IM rotation I did not have an opportunity to hone those skills.
Finally....there are tons of IMG cardiologists and GI docs.....tons.I am guessing you are going into one of these two right? Good job! Once you come out you will be no better than anyone else, unless of course you choose to go into academia. If so, more power to you..that leaves more patients for all the rest of the private practice docs making the big bucks. If you are in private practice..who cares whether you went to Harvard IM, or podunk community hospital IM. What, can you bill medicare more for your 7 minute office visit? Or charge more for a stress test? Enlighten us.
Anyway....I'm done with you. You went the DO route and ended up in IM.Gotta love all that rounding huh? You are a dime a dozen friend, and you can't even travel with your degree. Any one who applies themselves and goes the carib route can do both. Who is the loser now?

You might think you can fool a group of pre-meds and MS I and II's with your story, but anyone with experience can see that you are lying. The only reason you don't want to provide the name of your program is that it's likely I or someone else could verify your story and embarass you. There is no way someone did 3 months of internal medicine at UIC and didn't see the ICU nor perform a one intubation. I know that program well so it's not even a question that you are lying. Furthermore, a competitive IM program that filled with only U.S. M.D.'s the year before will not offer a pre-match position to an IMG, why would they have to...oh that's right, because you have a great personality. Furthermore, your account about having dinner with your Program Directors was absolutely Hollywood at it's finest. This PD chose to have dinner with you on two separate occassions because he likes your interpersonal skills? Let's just ignore the fact that most PD's don't interact with 3rd year students since they are so busy with all of their other responsibilities. Your attendings and residents are the ones who evaluate you and provide feedback to the program director. PD's are aware of 4th years because they are usually in the process of interviewing or doing an audition rotation. Your story just doesn't hold up. Are you that insecure that you must fabricate an entire story just to contradict me? Do you really feel the need to "school" me that you must lie? You are a very sad individual indeed.

Regarding your "tons" of IMG's that match in GI and Cards. Go post that in the IM forum. Let's allow them to laugh at you too. Make sure to use the same language you used here such as the term "tons" There are some very good IMG's that match into these programs but these are extraordinary candidates with a lot of research to back their application. To suggest that "tons" of IMGs are in GI and Cardiology is extremely misleading. You continue to prove that you are misinformed.

I also read your link. It would have been nice if you had done so as well. SophieJane, a DO, admitted to performing these. A lot of the respondents were MS I's and II who were asking questions regarding the process. There were hardly any MS III's complaining about lacking the opportunity to intubate. The dialogue consisted of people debating the need to do these procedures. The thread had very little if anything to do with students complaining about the lack of opportunity to perform procedures.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

I am not going to divulge to you where I prematched only in the interest of anonymity. Suffice it to say that I have indeed secured a one year IM internship at a hospital where I completed three months of IM rotation. I have no reason to lie. I was asked to return by the department director. That was months ago. Since then, I have been working in the one of the Residency directors IM offices weekly ( seperate from my current rotation). I have already signed a contract. I was asked to return ( as I was informed) based on my strong interpersonal skills, work ethic and knowledge base. I have even been out to dinner with the program director and their spouse on two seperate occasions.The PD is not now, nor never has been desperate. Last year these very coveted spots were all filled by US MD grads entering very competitive fields. The PD is an interesting individual who tends to focus on the individual person applicant rather than the school, but given your clear bigotry, I don't expect you to even understand that concept.I agree that it may not be USUAL to be offered a postion as a third year, but that does not mean it did not happen. I am unsure as to why you find this so difficult to believe. Again, I really have no reason to lie about this. In fact, prior to even beginning to argue with you on this thread, I had posted this info in other threads on a different topic. Do you truly believe I have this fake internet person that i have been keeping up for years?. If so, you must live in a very paranoid world.
Also, I maintain that I did rotate with UIC students, and also have friends that go to school there. On the portion of my IM clerkship where I was in contact with UIC students ( not ICU ), neither they nor I had any oppurtunity to perform intubations. I had the option of doing an ICU month, but chose telemetry instead, as I had another institution lined up for an ICU month. I am scheduled to start that rotation in July ( 4th year). So, no...you are not busting anyone. But hey...if it helps you sleep at night.
Also, just because students at your instituion do intubations as 3rd years does not mean it is the norm by any standard. If you had used the link you might come to that realisation. But then, you chose not to read the link. Interesting the way that works. For the record, we were taught how to intubate during our fifth semester ( beginning of 3rd year ). However, as I have stated given that I opted to do my ICU month outside of my IM rotation I did not have an opportunity to hone those skills.
Finally....there are tons of IMG cardiologists and GI docs.....tons.I am guessing you are going into one of these two right? Good job! Once you come out you will be no better than anyone else, unless of course you choose to go into academia. If so, more power to you..that leaves more patients for all the rest of the private practice docs making the big bucks. If you are in private practice..who cares whether you went to Harvard IM, or podunk community hospital IM. What, can you bill medicare more for your 7 minute office visit? Or charge more for a stress test? Enlighten us.
Anyway....I'm done with you. You went the DO route and ended up in IM.Gotta love all that rounding huh? You are a dime a dozen friend, and you can't even travel with your degree. Any one who applies themselves and goes the carib route can do both. Who is the loser now?

Nice!

 

[bulletproof]

You might think you can fool a group of pre-meds and MS I and II's with your story, but anyone with experience can see that you are lying. The only reason you don't want to provide the name of your program is that it's likely I or someone else could verify your story and embarass you. There is no way someone did 3 months of internal medicine at UIC and didn't see the ICU nor perform an intubation. I know that program well and what are you saying is complete lie. Furthermore, a competitive IM program that filled with only U.S. M.D.'s will not offer a pre-match position to an IMG. Furthermore, your account about having dinner with your Program Directors was absolutely Hollywood at it's finest. So this PD just chose to have dinner with you on two separate occassions because he likes your interpersonal skills? Let's just ignore the fact that most PD's don't interact with 3rd year students since they are so busy with all of their other responsibilities. Your attendings and residents are the ones who evaluate you and provide feedback to the program director. PD's are aware of 4th years because they are usually in the process of interviewing or doing an audition rotation. Your story has so many holes. Are you that insecure that you must fabricate an entire story just to contradict me? Do you really feel the need to "school" me that you must lie?

Regarding your "tons" of IMG's that match in GI and Cards. Go post that in the IM forum. There are some very good IMG's that match into these programs but these are extraordinary candidates with a lot of research to back their application. To suggest that "tons" are in GI and Cardiology is extremely misleading. You continue to prove that you are misinformed.

I also read your link. It would have been nice if you had done so as well. SophieJane, a DO, admitted to performing these. A lot of the respondents were MS I's and II who were asking questions regarding the process. There were hardly any MS III's complaining about lacking the opportunity to intubate. The dialogue consisted of people debating on the need to do these procedures.

Dude, last post...so answer it however you see fit. My story is 100% accurate. I refuse to give up my anonymity. Why should I? You already know that I am a 3rd year Ross student. If I give the program I might as well post my name. I refuse to do that on an anonymous forum, and for what..to prove to you that what I am saying is true. Truly, believe what you want. As for dinner with the PD.....I have been out to dinner with quite a few attendings , at drug rep. dinners etc. Is this really that unusual.Also this PD has patients on the floors and oftentimes med students look after their patients. This is how I initially met the PD. So, no...you're the ***** who can't fill in the parts I am not detailing. Anyway I refuse to give you any more details.
As for your point about Fellowships, given that so many IMGs go into fields such as IM, are you so naive as to think that there are not a large percentage of them in competitive fellowships.I work with several IMG cardiology attendings on a daily basis...to the point where I don't give it much consideration, and would not even be concerned about getting a fellowship as an IM resident.Doing research as an IMG is not that difficult by the way. I know plenty that are doing it currently. Why do you try and make it seem so difficult? To validate your own path perhaps? Way to answer the portion about the advantages of being in a 'competitve' IM residency btw.
So go ahead, and say I'm a loser as you have, that I'm a poser, that I am lying. If you need to believe that to validate the FACT, that you are in a speciality any board passing IMG could crawl into. Dress it up and call it what you want...but that my friend is the truth. Face it.

 

[novacek88]

Dude, last post...so answer it however you see fit. My story is 100% accurate. I refuse to give up my anonymity. Why should I? You already know that I am a 3rd year Ross student. If I give the program I might as well post my name.

You story is 100% FOS. You didn't have any hesitation telling everyone you did 3 months of IM at UIC. You were supposedly offered a one year internship in IM somewhere? Hmmmm, I wonder where that was, could it be.....UIC? I find it amusing that you tell everyone you did 3 months at UIC but suddenly you can't divulge where you pre-matched. Okay

As for dinner with the PD.....I have been out to dinner with quite a few attendings , at drug rep. dinners etc. Is this really that unusual.Also this PD has patients on the floors and oftentimes med students look after their patients. This is how I initially met the PD. So, no...you're the ***** who can't fill in the parts I am not detailing. Anyway I refuse to give you any more details.

Um..yeah, let's just say, it's unusual for an MS III to have dinner with the program director on 2 separate occasions.

As for your point about Fellowships, given that so many IMGs go into fields such as IM, are you so naive as to think that there are not a large percentage of them in competitive fellowships.I work with several IMG cardiology attendings on a daily basis...to the point where I don't give it much consideration, and would not even be concerned about getting a fellowship as an IM resident.

Competitive fellowships can include multiple fields. You specifically pointed out that tons of IMG's match in cardiology and GI. Yes, I know a lot of older IMG's from countries like India that are cardiologists in this country. Cards and GI were not as competitive 15 years ago. You couldn't pay someone to take a GI spot back then. However, it's very competitive today. And if you actually knew anything about the application process, you would realize that you are coming accross as a complete jacka$$. IMG's have a difficult time matching in GI and Cards. We are not talking about endocrinology or CC/Pulm.

Doing research as an IMG is not that difficult by the way. I know plenty that are doing it currently. Why do you try and make it seem so difficult? To validate your own path perhaps? Way to answer the portion about the advantages of being in a 'competitve' IM residency btw.
So go ahead, and say I'm a loser as you have, that I'm a poser, that I am lying. If you need to believe that to validate the FACT, that you are in a speciality any board passing IMG could crawl into. Dress it up and call it what you want...but that my friend is the truth. Face it.

To get papers published is not an easy task. Again, I challenge you to post these thoughts in the IM forum. You can hide here behind Shah Patel and your IMG puppets who will high five anything you say but in reality you haven't said anything at all. You have just embarrassed yourself and destroyed any credibility you might have had on these forums. If I know you are lying, you can be assured others can figure you are lying as well.

 

[bulletproof]

You story is 100% FOS. You didn't have any hesitation telling everyone you did 3 months of IM at UIC. You were supposedly offered a one year internship in IM somewhere? Hmmmm, I wonder where that was, could it be.....UIC? I find it amusing that you tell everyone you did 3 months at UIC but suddenly you can't divulge where you pre-matched. Okay



Um..yeah, let's just say, it's unusual for an MS III to have dinner with the program director on 2 separate occasions.



Competitive fellowships can include multiple fields. You specifically pointed out that tons of IMG's match in cardiology and GI. Yes, I know a lot of older IMG's from countries like India that are cardiologists in this country. Cards and GI were not as competitive 15 years ago. You couldn't pay someone to take a GI spot back then. However, it's very competitive today. And if you actually knew anything about the application process, you would realize that you are coming accross as a complete jacka$$. IMG's have a difficult time matching in GI and Cards. We are not talking about endocrinology or CC/Pulm.




To get papers published is not an easy task. Again, I challenge you to post these thoughts in the IM forum. You can hide here behind Shah Patel and your IMG puppets who will high five anything you say but in reality you haven't said anything at all. You have just embarrassed yourself and destroyed any credibility you might have had on these forums. If I know you are lying, you can be assured others can figure you are lying as well.

You are the only one accusing me of lying. Go ahead. No skin off my back. And as for referring to puppets.....Didn't you accuse Macgillgrad of backing IMGs at every turn only for me to provide a link ( which you have not even ackowledged conveniently)in which he advocates an individual choosing wvsom over sgu. I guess he is a puppet too? You, my friend are the only one FOS, and have completely lost what little credit you ever had. You are an IM resident trying to put yourself above the crowd. In truth... you are a simple IM resident..no more..no less. Let me guess Step I let you down? Its ok. There is no shame in primary care. You should be happy with your lot. I'm sure Mommy and daddy are real proud of you.....k'son?Now run along and play with the other kids.
P.S. Good luck trying to figure out where I pre matched. Bye bye.

 

[McGillGrad]

You are the only one accusing me of lying. Go ahead. No skin off my back. And as for referring to puppets.....Didn't you accuse Macgillgrad of backing IMGs at every turn only for me to provide a link ( which you have not even ackowledged conveniently)in which he advocates an individual choosing wvsom over sgu. I guess he is a puppet too? You, my friend are the only one FOS, and have completely lost what little credit you ever had. You are an IM resident trying to put yourself above the crowd. In truth... you are a simple IM resident..no more..no less. Let me guess Step I let you down? Its ok. There is no shame in primary care. You should be happy with your lot. I'm sure Mommy and daddy are real proud of you.....k'son?Now run along and play with the other kids.
P.S. Good luck trying to figure out where I pre matched. Bye bye.

OUCH!!

 

[novacek88]

You are the only one accusing me of lying. Go ahead. No skin off my back. And as for referring to puppets.....Didn't you accuse Macgillgrad of backing IMGs at every turn only for me to provide a link ( which you have not even ackowledged conveniently)in which he advocates an individual choosing wvsom over sgu. I guess he is a puppet too? You, my friend are the only one FOS, and have completely lost what little credit you ever had. You are an IM resident trying to put yourself above the crowd. In truth... you are a simple IM resident..no more..no less. Let me guess Step I let you down? Its ok. There is no shame in primary care. You should be happy with your lot. I'm sure Mommy and daddy are real proud of you.....k'son?Now run along and play with the other kids.
P.S. Good luck trying to figure out where I pre matched. Bye bye.

You're an IMG who is trying to pre-match for a pre-lim spot at a program that has trouble filling. Not only are you an IMG, you are a Ross grad. Couldn't you get into SGU? Did they even take the MCAT when you applied? You're the typical IMG who thinks he is special because he is going into anesthesiology. Yeah, we get it. You don't want primary care so you went for the next easiest thing. But like all IMG's you will do anesthesiology at some community program in the ghetto. LOL, Do you really think I couldn't have done gas? FYI, I scored well enough on Step I to have made the interview cutoffs for ANY field of medicine let alone IM >230. My program is a top 20 program and I needed my score to get into my program. People don't match in GI unless they come from a reputable program so your buddies in IM will not come close to sniffing GI; it's much easier matching in gas at some weak community program. Yes, there are many community IM program that IMG's such as yourself end up at. However, the top programs like mine rarely if ever have an IMG. Everyone knows Gas is the IMG version of Surgery since it's rare that you get anything better....oh I'm sorry, there must have been 4 guys out of your class of 400 that got Rads. I'm just amazed at all that you have any attitude whatsoever considering your situation. And that's assuming you match in gas somewhere and don't do FP in the Bronx.

 

[bulletproof]

You're an IMG who is trying to pre-match for a pre-lim spot at a program that has trouble filling. Not only are you an IMG, you are a Ross grad. Couldn't you get into SGU? Did they even take the MCAT when you applied? You're the typical IMG who thinks he is special because he is going into anesthesiology. Yeah, we get it. You don't want primary care so you went for the next easiest thing. But like all IMG's you will do anesthesiology at some community program in the ghetto. LOL, Do you really think I couldn't have done gas? FYI, I scored well enough on Step I to have made the interview cutoffs for ANY field of medicine let alone IM >230. My program is a top 20 program and I needed my score to get into my program. People don't match in GI unless they come from a reputable program so your buddies in IM will not come close to sniffing GI; it's much easier matching in gas at some weak community program. Yes, there are many community IM program that IMG's such as yourself end up at. However, the top programs like mine rarely if ever have an IMG. Everyone knows Gas is the IMG version of Surgery since it's rare that you get anything better....oh I'm sorry, there must have been 4 guys out of your class of 400 that got Rads. I'm just amazed at all that you have any attitude whatsoever considering your situation. And that's assuming you match in gas somewhere and don't do FP in the Bronx.

Why do you insist on getting your internet panties in a bunch?
So you are that guy we have all grown to love that spouts " I could have done what you're doing yada yada". Give it up. The above post reeks of your insecurity. And lets be honest, you probably never had a shot at gas, or anything that would require greater than a 215 step I now did you? Again thats O.k. The world needs individuals such as yourself to admit the CHF exacerbations, and the DKAs, and the dehydrated LOL in NAD. Along with the folks in surgery, you guys are the workhorses of the hospital. I applaude you.
I love your point about Rads...only you see, you, a DO, the proponent of this argument, are not in a Rads residency, or a Rad onc. residency, or an Ortho. residency, or an Anesthesiology residency. You my friend are an IM resident. If I were standing in your shoes I would not be so haughty as to be looking down on an FP residency in the Bronx. You're practically one step above it.
Yes, yes....you are so right about anesthesia being an IMGs surgery ( lament). I just gave up on the idea of surgery given my inferior degree choice. It had nothing to do with the malignant attitudes of many surgeons I've worked with, their ( much like you ) bitter disposition, and resentment at the much happier anesthesia folks, my disdain for less cerebral fields, my love for acute medicine, the awesome compensation and lifestyle, the cool procedures, the abilty to teach future DO students how to intubate , the oppurtuntity to pursue Pain or CCM as fellowships, Never having to round again, getting to wear scrubs to work everyday, and on..and on. Please help oh wise one.....do you know of any community surgery programs that might have pity on me??
Oh yes, as for SGU, I did not even apply there once I looked at Ross. I had an MCAT, and used it as part of my admissions criteria. I could not justify the extra cash for the education at SGU over Ross, and furthermore they spend 2 years in the carib. versus 16 months at Ross. Also I was very happy with Ross 4,500+ alumni, Board pass rates etc. So you see Bud, once again you are coming up with no love. Keep reaching for that rainbow. until the next time...

 

[mysophobe]

Dude, last post...

 

[bulletproof]

I know, I know. I really should not be feeding the trolls. Self-restraint bullet..self-restraint.

 

[mysophobe]

Arguing makes everyone involved look like idiots. I'm sure you're a smart individual, so I hate to see you get a bad rep by arguing on here over something as pointless as whether or not you pre-matched into a prelim spot.

 

[rahulazcom]

I think both of you need to be more responsible with your comments. There is nothing wrong with internal medicine or anesthesiology. I realize both of you are probably just trying to agitate the other person so you are saying things you don't mean. However, some people might interpret what you say to be the truth. For example, it's not true that only people who score low on Step I go into internal medicine. Many people enter IM with the sole purpose of subspecializing so these people have no intention of practicing primary care. A very good friend and classmate has been doing cardiology research since he was in undergrad and plans on going into IM with the purpose of going into interventional cardiology.

Likewise, I know many amazing students who prefer to do anesthesiology. They are not entering anesthesiology because they couldn't match in surgery or radiology. I also have a very good friend that is sufferring from an autoimmune disease and has chronic pain. She wants to do anesthesiology and then a pain fellowship. Both of you are representing more than yourselves. You are representing your schools, and DO's and IMG's. Both of you seem like intelligent people who allowed this argument to get out of control. Just a reminder but be cool to your future colleagues. We are all going to need each other.

 

[mysophobe]

Several of my friends have or are going into IM or anesthesiology with good board scores and generally great profiles that could have gotten them into surgery or something more competitive. They just didn't want to do something else. Not everyone who goes into IM is forced into it, likewise for anesthesia.

 

[rockjock]

I think both of you need to be more responsible with your comments. There is nothing wrong with internal medicine or anesthesiology. I realize both of you are probably just trying to agitate the other person so you are saying things you don't mean. However, some people might interpret what you say to be the truth. For example, it's not true that only people who score low on Step I go into internal medicine. Many people enter IM with the sole purpose of subspecializing so these people have no intention of practicing primary care. A very good friend and classmate has been doing cardiology research since he was in undergrad and plans on going into IM with the purpose of going into interventional cardiology.
Likewise, I know many amazing students who prefer to do anesthesiology. They are not entering anesthesiology because they couldn't match in surgery or radiology. I also have a very good friend that is sufferring from an autoimmune disease and has chronic pain. She wants to do anesthesiology and then a pain fellowship. Both of you are representing more than yourselves. You are representing your schools, and DO's and IMG's. Both of you seem like intelligent people who allowed this argument to get out of control. Just a reminder but be cool to your future colleagues. We are all going to need each other.

Thanks so much for saying what I have been thinking throughout this forum. As physicians, priority number one is to serve patients. We can do this more effectivly through cooperation and interpersonal trust. Break the walls guys. Do, IMG, domestic MD, most everyone is here to do good. Accept one another, and questions like DO or IMG will not be applicable. Stop undermining one another and get back to your books. Regardless of where we learn, we are all striving towards the same goal. It is hard enough to do by itself. Lets not add anything else.

 

[texmex2]

I am deciding between attending Touro-Mare Island and Ross. I know that once you start practicing medicine, no one asks where you went to med school, only what kind of doctor you are. At Ross I will get an MD but at Touro I will get a DO. Both schools cost virtually the same (in fact, Ross ends up being $74 cheaper a month). I read somewhere that the average Step 1 first-time passing rate for a D.O. student in 70%, whereas for a foreign medical student it is 67% (this makes it virtually the same). I guess my main concern is the chances of landing a good residency (I want to do anesthesiology--I dont care which hospital). I also realize that D.O.'s and foreign medical students have to do better on USMLE's than U.S. MD students for the same spot in residency. I was wondering if anyone else could help me decide whether to go to Touro or Ross, and if there are any other factors that I need to take into consideration.

I was in a similar situation. Except my choice was Ross vs. a state osteopathic school. Chose Ross. To each his own. Good luck!

 

[daelroy]

You should go to a DO school. You wil be better trained for the USMLE coming out of a DO school than Ross. You have will better teachers. Courses will be better designed. Notes will be presented better. Unlike Ross, your DO school won't try to weed you out so your exams will be fair. A lot of the useless minutae will be eliminated and board relevant material will be presented. Plus, the environment at Ross will be competitive and less supportive because you will have three times the number of students there.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

You should go to a DO school. You wil be better trained for the USMLE coming out of a DO school than Ross. You have will better teachers. Courses will be better designed. Notes will be presented better. Unlike Ross, your DO school won't try to weed you out so your exams will be fair. A lot of the useless minutae will be eliminated and board relevant material will be presented. Plus, the environment at Ross will be competitive and less supportive because you will have three times the number of students there.

How do you know so much about Ross? Do you go there?

 

[daelroy]

How do you know so much about Ross? Do you go there?

So I suppose all the Ross stereotypes are true then. Thanks for confirming that.

 

[phisigman03]

well don't list any stereotypical saying just list facts. So either you went to Ross then transfered to DO or everything you just listed were just based on assumptions?

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

So I suppose all the Ross stereotypes are true then. Thanks for confirming that.

I did not say the stereotypes were true or false. All I am saying is that it does not seem that you have had the Ross experience "first hand," but a mere collections of thoughts and comments listed on various forums.

For the people who read these posts:

If you want to know more about Ross...I recommend contacting the school diretly or speak to current students or alumni of the school.

 

[daelroy]

I did not say the stereotypes were true or false. All I am saying is that it does not seem that you have had the Ross experience "first hand," but a mere collections of thoughts and comments listed on various forums.

For the people who read these posts:

If you want to know more about Ross...I recommend contacting the school diretly or speak to current students or alumni of the school.

Why don't you tell us which stereotypes are true or false since you attend Ross? I find it strange that Ross students like yourself shy away from being upfront about the school. Seriously, why are Ross students so cryptic about the school? What do you have to hide? If I'm wrong then please tell me where I'm wrong. Why don't you guys ever defend your school? I won't argue with you. Tell people the truth about Ross if all of us are just providing negative and false stereotypes.

 

[neutropenic]

Ross is like a secret society, like a fraternity sort of. Rossites couldn't tell you all their secrets now.

Alleged secret Ross rituals involve branding, carrying heavy objects on the NY subway, streaking in Dominica, and a special dance.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Why don't you tell us which stereotypes are true or false since you attend Ross? I find it strange that Ross students like yourself shy away from being upfront about the school. Seriously, why are Ross students so cryptic about the school? What do you have to hide? If I'm wrong then please tell me where I'm wrong. Why don't you guys ever defend your school? I won't argue with you. Tell people the truth about Ross if all of us are just providing negative and false stereotypes.

The truth is.....I dont have time...I am very busy with my rotations/studying and as you probably know from my posts...I dont write much.

People who are interested in knowing about Ross can contact the school directly or can speak to alumni. They will find out that there is no secret society and most of the information about the school is public knowledge.

 

[neutropenic]

The truth is.....I dont have time...I am very busy with my rotations/studying and as you probably know from my posts...I dont write much.

People who are interested in knowing about Ross can contact the school directly or can speak to alumni. They will find out that there is no secret society and most of the information about the school is public knowledge.

You're MS4. You should be done or near done by now. What are you studying for?

 

[cpep]

You should go to a DO school. You wil be better trained for the USMLE coming out of a DO school than Ross. You have will better teachers. Courses will be better designed. Notes will be presented better. Unlike Ross, your DO school won't try to weed you out so your exams will be fair. A lot of the useless minutae will be eliminated and board relevant material will be presented. Plus, the environment at Ross will be competitive and less supportive because you will have three times the number of students there.

You should be very cautions when someone makes an augument as one-sided as this author. The claims are often of the emotional nature and utterly false.

At Ross I have had some excellent professors, some mediocre, and some not so great ones. There is no school on earth with all great teachers like daelroy claims. O yeah, we are well trained for the Boards, clinical training, etc.. too.

After 4 years of hard work, you'll be an MD. You may or maynot get the residency of your choice but at least your patients won't think you're a Bone Doctor (Doctor of OSTEOPATHIC) or place you in the same category with NP, PAs, Podiatrists for the REST of your LIFE. I have personally witnessed several cases when patients REFUSED to receive medical care from DO residents and these residents had to go ask MD residents (some Carribbean grads) for help! This is why so many DO, PAs, Podiatrists, social workers, NPs walk around with their badges always turn inside out so nobody can read their badges. good luck!

Ross graduate 2006
PGY-1 7/1/06

 

[scpod]

O yeah, we are well trained for the Boards...

I guess that's why in 2005 59% (DO= 72%) of IMGs passed Step One of the USMLE, 71% (DO= 85%) passed Step Two CK, 83% (DO= 87%) passed Step Two CS, and 68% (DO= 95%) passed Step Three. Sounds like a lot of good preparation

 

[bulletproof]

I guess that's why in 2005 59% (DO= 72%) of IMGs passed Step One of the USMLE, 71% (DO= 85%) passed Step Two CK, 83% (DO= 87%) passed Step Two CS, and 68% (DO= 95%) passed Step Three. Sounds like a lot of good preparation

That figure includes all IMGs, including those from countries where english is not the first language or even the language of instruction. So if, as you claim to be, you are truly objective you would not take that figure as representative of Ross grads....99.999% of whom are proficient in the english language. Also the last figures available from Ross for first time pass rates are much much higher. I am busy..but I am sure if you do a search you should be able to pull them up..if not here then on valuemd.

 

[neutropenic]

Also remember that DOs do not have to sit for the USMLE unless they wish to and those who wish to tend to be gunning for more competitive allo matches whereas all allopathic students who wish to be licensed whether their school be on the island of Manhattan or the island of Dominica must take the USMLE.

Why would a DO even take USMLE Step 3 pray tell?

 

[cpep]

Also remember that DOs do not have to sit for the USMLE unless they wish to and those who wish to tend to be gunning for more competitive allo matches whereas all allopathic students who wish to be licensed whether their school be on the island of Manhattan or the island of Dominica must take the USMLE.

Why would a DO even take USMLE Step 3 pray tell?

Yes, it's true DOs don't have to take the USMLE but only the comlex. However, repeated NRMP match statistics clearly have shown that the majority of medical students; whether they're AMGs, USIMGs, FMGs, or DOs all prefer the more competitive fields and avoid IM or FP. Thereby, many DOs students not only take the Comlex(2 days and more straightforward questions) but also the USMLEs. Now, unless you want to do IM or FP, choosing the DO rout=spending/studying/taking 2 sets of exams instead of one. Of course, there are DO only residencies but these are few and far in between so alot of DO students choose to take both the USMLE and Comlex to better their match chances.

Whoever compared the pass rate b/w IMGs vs. DOs need a refresher course in statistics. There are fewer DOs then IMGs in the US. Even if 90% of DOs take the USMLE annually, their smaller number vs. IMGs make the data somewhat insignificant as a smaller sample size(DOs) can be easily skewed/manipulated as oppose to the much larger total # of IMGs.

 

[neutropenic]

...of IMGs passed ...83% (DO= 87%) passed Step Two CS,...

Why would a DO take USMLE step 2 cs???!!

http://www.usmle.org/scores/2005perf.htm

Actually only 31 took it in this listing. (What a waste of $975!)

386 took ck for the 1st time whereas there were 1265 1st time takers of USMLE step 1.

This article

http://www.aacom.org/calendar/aacomonline/edition.asp?Month=12&Year=2002

says osteo enrollment is about 11,000. Dividing by 4 gives about 2750 suggesting that only ~46% of DO students take USMLE step 1, most likely the more driven half (selection bias most likely artificially inflating DO performance). And ~14% took ck. Very few took USMLE step 3, 54 first time takers in 2004-2005.

If I recall corretcly SGU's avg step 1 is tad lower than the US national average (and one year a tad higher?), though I do not know about other Carib schools.

 

[scpod]

Whoever compared the pass rate b/w IMGs vs. DOs need a refresher course in statistics. There are fewer DOs then IMGs in the US. Even if 90% of DOs take the USMLE annually, their smaller number vs. IMGs make the data somewhat insignificant as a smaller sample size(DOs) can be easily skewed/manipulated as oppose to the much larger total # of IMGs.

Actually, you might want to take that refresher course yourself. The numbers in each group don't make a difference. The DO sample size is large enough to provide valid data, in the step one scores anyway. For example, the average MCAT score in SC is 25.6, while the average in CA is 28.8, a statistically significant difference. The fact that 488 people in SC take it compared to 4,288 in CA really makes no difference at all.

What DOES actually skew the figures somewhat is that not all DOs take the USMLE, but all FMGs do. You cannot assume what would happen if ALL DOs took the USMLE. You also cannot assume that the only DOs taking it are the ones who want competitive residencies. I know many DOs who have taken it just to see what happens, with no additional study. Yes, it's foolish to throw away that kind of money, especially because the two tests have a slightly different focus, but it happens. Some DOs take it simply for ego. Most allopathic residencies will take COMLEX scores, but the DOs can't compare themselves with their fellow residents unless they take the same tests.

I never claimed to be objective at all. My only aim is to alleviate some of the opinion that is taken for fact. The only facts are the scores. I can't take some hearsay figure from ValueMD and make a decision based on that. I would never expect a doctor to make medical decisions based on such flimsy evidence. I must also look carefully at the scores that some schools tend to report because they all want to present themselves in the best light. If the scores they report are based on a survey of graduating students (don't laugh because it happens very often) then I can't consider the information as valid. Maybe it's just all the time I spent in the Chemistry lab has made me skeptical, but I have to look very closely at sources before I tend to accept them as true.

 

[bulletproof]

I never claimed to be objective at all. My only aim is to alleviate some of the opinion that is taken for fact. The only facts are the scores. I can't take some hearsay figure from ValueMD and make a decision based on that. I would never expect a doctor to make medical decisions based on such flimsy evidence. I must also look carefully at the scores that some schools tend to report because they all want to present themselves in the best light. If the scores they report are based on a survey of graduating students (don't laugh because it happens very often) then I can't consider the information as valid. Maybe it's just all the time I spent in the Chemistry lab has made me skeptical, but I have to look very closely at sources before I tend to accept them as true.

Absolutely. I appreciate skepticism as much as the next wary customer. The following is the best I could find doing a very cursory search:
http://www.rossu.edu/med/academics/faqsaboutaca_061.cfm. Read the FAQ about USMLE step I pass rates from 2001 through 2003. Admittedly, they do not indicate first time pass rates. Also , you may ( as you are entitled to be) be skeptical about the source. I can only offer you anecdotal evidence in the form of my personal knowledge of my beginning class ( jan' 04). As of now, I know of two people out of a group of 34 in my class that have failed. There are about 20 others in the class whose scores I do not know, but I am rotating with them ( meaning they had to have passed..Ross stipulates passing USMLE step I prior to clinicals). Now I am sure there are quite a few more who have failed....but I can assure you that the figure is nowhere near 50%. I would urge prospective candidates to get the exact figures of first time pass rates off of the adcoms of the schools they apply to. I know for sure I would not be attending Ross or any other school with first time pass rates of 52%. When I started I was given the 92% figure quoted in the link above and also something like a 78% first time pass rate. Anyway, as a soon to be fourth year these are not issues forefront in my mind.
As I have stated many times before...when looking at schools gather all the info. you can, consider the source, ask the hard questions, and shop around as an informed consumer. Whether you ultimately decide Carib. or D.O. if you are informed as to your choice you can't go wrong.

 

[JohnnyOU]

I am deciding between attending Touro-Mare Island and Ross. I know that once you start practicing medicine, no one asks where you went to med school, only what kind of doctor you are. At Ross I will get an MD but at Touro I will get a DO. Both schools cost virtually the same (in fact, Ross ends up being $74 cheaper a month). I read somewhere that the average Step 1 first-time passing rate for a D.O. student in 70%, whereas for a foreign medical student it is 67% (this makes it virtually the same). I guess my main concern is the chances of landing a good residency (I want to do anesthesiology--I dont care which hospital). I also realize that D.O.'s and foreign medical students have to do better on USMLE's than U.S. MD students for the same spot in residency. I was wondering if anyone else could help me decide whether to go to Touro or Ross, and if there are any other factors that I need to take into consideration.

Go with the DO.

 

[skypilot]

Go with the DO.

If I was going into Anesthesia I would definitely choose DO. First DOs have no problem matching into Anesthesia. It is much easier than coming from Ross. Second no Anesthesia patient is ever going to ask their Anesthesiologist about Osteopathic medicine.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Second no Anesthesia patient is ever going to ask their Anesthesiologist about Osteopathic medicine.

That's obvious...when they are under (GA).

 

[mysophobe]

I was under the impression that FMGs flock to anesthesia because it isn't terribly difficult to match.

 

[Shinken]

I think anesthesiology is a boring specialty...it puts me to sleep (HA! HA! get it? Puts me to *sleep*!)

 

[Sirius Black]

If I was going into Anesthesia I would definitely choose DO. First DOs have no problem matching into Anesthesia. It is much easier than coming from Ross. Second no Anesthesia patient is ever going to ask their Anesthesiologist about Osteopathic medicine.

What about Pain Management Anesthesiology? OMT can play a major role in the treatment of chronic pain.

 

[MossPoh]

It'd be nice if everyone could just be mutual friends in medicine. You don't have to like each other but by the end both DO and MD from Ross will be doctors (if they pass everything). The person graduating from Ross is not the failing student just like anyone that bombs out of osteopathic for whatever reason is not the same one that graduated. It is really tiring to see this bickering all the time. Decide what by what you like best and don't regret it. Don't knock anyone else for their decision....Not everyone that is a high achiever in college and gets into a bigtime school will be a great doctor, just like not everyone that goes into a carib school will be a miserable doctor. Sports are just as much proof of that as anything else....hell look at qbs in the nfl draft. Tom Brady seems to be doing alright for himself and he wasn't exactly a stellar high draft pick. Stupid comparison I know but this whole argument is kind of stupid in my opinion. In the end my opinion is just that an opinion like everyone elses...but hopefully others feel somewhat the same way.

 

[mysophobe]

Agreed.