Rotations SUCK.

[WedgeDawg]

How do you go about efficiently doing your lit review and presentation creations?

I used a combination of uptodate, wikijournal, and pubmed to figure out what the best papers/trials to look at were and then condensed them into a one page word document that I gave my presentation off of (only had a copy for myself, I was never a fan of handouts). Uptodate is a great first resource because it has the most recent and widely used recommendations, most of which are based off of trial data. It also does a really good job of citing the trials that the recommendations are based off of, so you can figure out which ones you need to focus on and immediate go to those rather than wading through older or worse trials. Once you've figured out the trials that you need to use, you pull up the paper from pubmed and open the wikijournal article on the trial and find out 1) what the trial was addressing 2) how they did that 3) what the results were 4) what the subgroup analyses and complications etc meant and 5) what the implications were. Important things for new treatments were things like number needed to treat, disease free survival, stuff like that depending on what you were looking at. In my experience, people wanted a succinct summation of the topic rather than a dissertation, but you'd still have to know those details (or, if you're me, have them on your 1 page cheat sheet) because you might be asked about them. Cherry on top is if you can apply what you learned from the presentation to one of the patients on your service to fully close the loop. In the beginning, it took me a couple of hours to put together a 10 minute presentation because I wanted to be thorough, but the more I did, the more efficient I got at figuring out which information was most important and how to effectively synthesize it and be comprehensive without being extraneous. By the end, it was taking me maybe 20-30 mins to put the same thing together, even if I had to look at multiple trials. It's definitely a practice makes perfect kind of thing.

This is definitely not the only way to do it, this is just how I personally went about doing it. I'm sure there are better ways out there or ways that work more effectively for people with a different learning/presentation style than me.

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[libertyyne]

I used a combination of uptodate, wikijournal, and pubmed to figure out what the best papers/trials to look at were and then condensed them into a one page word document that I gave my presentation off of (only had a copy for myself, I was never a fan of handouts). Uptodate is a great first resource because it has the most recent and widely used recommendations, most of which are based off of trial data. It also does a really good job of citing the trials that the recommendations are based off of, so you can figure out which ones you need to focus on and immediate go to those rather than wading through older or worse trials. Once you've figured out the trials that you need to use, you pull up the paper from pubmed and open the wikijournal article on the trial and find out 1) what the trial was addressing 2) how they did that 3) what the results were 4) what the subgroup analyses and complications etc meant and 5) what the implications were. Important things for new treatments were things like number needed to treat, disease free survival, stuff like that depending on what you were looking at. In my experience, people wanted a succinct summation of the topic rather than a dissertation, but you'd still have to know those details (or, if you're me, have them on your 1 page cheat sheet) because you might be asked about them. Cherry on top is if you can apply what you learned from the presentation to one of the patients on your service to fully close the loop. In the beginning, it took me a couple of hours to put together a 10 minute presentation because I wanted to be thorough, but the more I did, the more efficient I got at figuring out which information was most important and how to effectively synthesize it and be comprehensive without being extraneous. By the end, it was taking me maybe 20-30 mins to put the same thing together, even if I had to look at multiple trials. It's definitely a practice makes perfect kind of thing.

This is definitely not the only way to do it, this is just how I personally went about doing it. I'm sure there are better ways out there or ways that work more effectively for people with a different learning/presentation style than me.

the reverse engineering of wikipedia, uptodate and cohchrane is the only way i got any lit search work done through college and medical school. Glad to see it will still work on the wards.

 

[WedgeDawg]

the reverse engineering of wikipedia, uptodate and cohchrane is the only way i got any lit search work done through college and medical school. Glad to see it will still work on the wards.

All about efficiency dude

 

[Neopolymath]

I used a combination of uptodate, wikijournal, and pubmed to figure out what the best papers/trials to look at were and then condensed them into a one page word document that I gave my presentation off of (only had a copy for myself, I was never a fan of handouts). Uptodate is a great first resource because it has the most recent and widely used recommendations, most of which are based off of trial data. It also does a really good job of citing the trials that the recommendations are based off of, so you can figure out which ones you need to focus on and immediate go to those rather than wading through older or worse trials. Once you've figured out the trials that you need to use, you pull up the paper from pubmed and open the wikijournal article on the trial and find out 1) what the trial was addressing 2) how they did that 3) what the results were 4) what the subgroup analyses and complications etc meant and 5) what the implications were. Important things for new treatments were things like number needed to treat, disease free survival, stuff like that depending on what you were looking at. In my experience, people wanted a succinct summation of the topic rather than a dissertation, but you'd still have to know those details (or, if you're me, have them on your 1 page cheat sheet) because you might be asked about them. Cherry on top is if you can apply what you learned from the presentation to one of the patients on your service to fully close the loop. In the beginning, it took me a couple of hours to put together a 10 minute presentation because I wanted to be thorough, but the more I did, the more efficient I got at figuring out which information was most important and how to effectively synthesize it and be comprehensive without being extraneous. By the end, it was taking me maybe 20-30 mins to put the same thing together, even if I had to look at multiple trials. It's definitely a practice makes perfect kind of thing.

This is definitely not the only way to do it, this is just how I personally went about doing it. I'm sure there are better ways out there or ways that work more effectively for people with a different learning/presentation style than me.

Thank you for the detailed reply. That is how I did things in undergrad. I'm happy to hear that this will work here too.

 

[Perrotfish]

Med students work less than attendings? I'm pretty sure that didnt come out quite the way you wanted. Attendings put in many non clinical hours that students dont see.

How many hours do you think attendings and medical students work?

The most recent survey of Peds had private practice working 45 hours per week and academics working 55. I was usually well over 60 hours per week as a medical student and well over 80 (including non clinical work) as a resident

 

[Angus Avagadro]

How many hours do you think attendings and medical students work?

The most recent survey of Peds had private practice working 45 hours per week and academics working 55. I was usually well over 60 hours per week as a medical student and well over 80 (including non clinical work) as a resident

That came out wrong. I wanted to say, Attendings work less tha med students? as the Poster suggested. My bad. Thanks for pointing that out

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Just want to drop my thoughts here. 6 rotations are done. 5/6 are great. 1/6 is really straight up garbage and malicious. Score some digits with some young hot female pharmaceutical sale reps and go out on a few dates. Receive an invitation for some together time with some female PA on one of my rotations. Straight up just pimping and chilling. Performance on COMATs is improving to an above average level. Besides the self inflicted pain and stress on myself for now trying to match to some moderately competitive programs, third year is 50x better than my first two years of preclinicals.

 

[hallowmann]

A lot of folks don’t know that “intern” is based off the latin root word for “note hoe”

Ahh, I remember why I missed being here.

Just so y’all know, not every clinical site is toxic... My crew always treats medical students/interns/residents very well. Never had a reason to be negative toward a student before.

Granted I’m speaking from the ICU, and students have less of an opportunity to really muck anything up compared to in surgery.

I’ve even seen a few DO students rotate through (is it normal to travel 200+ miles for an away?).

So far as an MS1 everyone at clinical sites has treated me VERY nicely.

People treated me much worse at larger East coast sites. It really depends on the culture of the place. You'll find some of the worst and some of the best people working in hospitals.

I urge every DO student to do their 4th year away rotations at a university program or where MD students usually rotate.

I learned more there in 1 week than I did 1 month at my core site. The teaching and expectations are very different.

This really varies. There's no way to know and clearly by reading some of the experiences on SDN the big problem with DO rotations is the range.

Best bet is to find out where people had good experiences and why. Then try to go there. That's what I did for selectives/electives and it worked out.

 

[Desired Member]

Or how about being sent into a room with NO IDEA what the patient is here for. What's the chief complaint? What's their vitals? WTF am I doing? Like this is bull****. Now the patient looks at me like I'm some clueless idiot and they are already pissed they had to wait 15 minutes for somebody to see them at all.
...
I could get more from reading and doing questions rather than being in clinic.
...

Basically my exact thoughts right here

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Primary care outpatient clinics are tough especially with your patients being spoiled children who expect you to coddle them for 15-20 minutes and then expect you fix address all of their CCs.

Subspecialty clinics are more manageable bc you are only expect to address their CC from their referral. Otherwise, you kick them back to their PCP and tell them to whine to the PCP for another referral for so and so condition. Also, 5 mins time with these people are also great.

 

[ciestar]

Today is my last day of peds. Finally get to manage patients on my own... only took four weeks.

Basically, if you’re stuck shadowing it totally sucks and just drains you everyday.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I urge every DO student to do their 4th year away rotations at a university program or where MD students usually rotate.

I learned more there in 1 week than I did 1 month at my core site. The teaching and expectations are very different.

What expectations did you have? I've seen variable stuff at academic centers.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Just want to drop my thoughts here. 6 rotations are done. 5/6 are great. 1/6 is really straight up garbage and malicious. Score some digits with some young hot female pharmaceutical sale reps and go out on a few dates. Receive an invitation for some together time with some female PA on one of my rotations. Straight up just pimping and chilling. Performance on COMATs is improving to an above average level. Besides the self inflicted pain and stress on myself for now trying to match to some moderately competitive programs, third year is 50x better than my first two years of preclinicals.

male model perks

 

[Major]

Just want to drop my thoughts here. 6 rotations are done. 5/6 are great. 1/6 is really straight up garbage and malicious. Score some digits with some young hot female pharmaceutical sale reps and go out on a few dates. Receive an invitation for some together time with some female PA on one of my rotations. Straight up just pimping and chilling. Performance on COMATs is improving to an above average level. Besides the self inflicted pain and stress on myself for now trying to match to some moderately competitive programs, third year is 50x better than my first two years of preclinicals.

We’re gonna need a longer and more detailed write up on these smoke show female reps and PAs...

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

We’re gonna need a longer and more detailed write up on these smoke show female reps and PAs...

Med students make good audiences for the reps to give their little rant to while the staff eats the free food. It's actually very rare for the reps to be open to attendings making a move on them (despite them taking off their wedding rings), let alone med students.

 

[sylvanthus]

Hah this thread brings back some memories. I had some realllly ****ty rotations as a medical student. Surgery being one of them as I had an RN as my preceptor. Yup, a nurse. I didn't learn jack on that rotation but at least the hours were good. I guess my core site was bad enough that they just shut it down after I graduated. Good times.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Hah this thread brings back some memories. I had some realllly ****ty rotations as a medical student. Surgery being one of them as I had an RN as my preceptor. Yup, a nurse. I didn't learn jack on that rotation but at least the hours were good. I guess my core site was bad enough that they just shut it down after I graduated. Good times.

Damn you're the mythical RN preceptor guy.

 

[sylvanthus]

Haha ya, long story short, they shut the core site down that I was at. Shocker there!

 

[QueenJames]

Med students make good audiences for the reps to give their little rant to while the staff eats the free food. It's actually very rare for the reps to be open to attendings making a move on them (despite them taking off their wedding rings), let alone med students.

Facts.

My IM preceptor made me go listen to this drug rep's rants on some drugs I had no goddamn idea about. Never learned or heard of them. He snagged coffee and a bagel and said "I'll see ya later!".

It was the most awkward convo because the rep knew I was stuck there and the poor lady went on with her sales pitch.

I had to fake the most "Hmmms.." and "Ahhh... interesting!" and I felt icky.

dingus.

 

[Giovanotto]

Facts.

My IM preceptor made me go listen to this drug rep's rants on some drugs I had no goddamn idea about. Never learned or heard of them. He snagged coffee and a bagel and said "I'll see ya later!".

It was the most awkward convo because the rep knew I was stuck there and the poor lady went on with her sales pitch.

I had to fake the most "Hmmms.." and "Ahhh... interesting!" and I felt icky.

dingus.

At least you put in the effort. I'm at that point in year 3 where I just give people the most deadpan face you've ever seen. I'm so tired of constantly meeting new people. 4-week rotations at different sites blows.

 

[Sardonix]

At least you put in the effort. I'm at that point in year 3 where I just give people the most deadpan face you've ever seen. I'm so tired of constantly meeting new people. 4-week rotations at different sites blows.

Hell I am at a yearlong rotation site and meeting everyone each new dept is hard enough.

By week 3 you've mastered the general flow in the place then ZIP start over.

 

[Blanky]

Some of these complaints are either just fun venting or hilarious and immature... The RN preceptor is insane though lol

 

[QueenJames]

Some of these complaints are either just fun venting or hilarious and immature... The RN preceptor is insane though lol

Wait til you start rotations bro.

I thought the same when I used to read these years ago.

No cap.

 

[Blanky]

Wait til you start rotations bro.

I thought the same when I used to read these years ago.

No cap.

We get NSU residents in my ED all day lol. I agree its stupid often but I just think some people are disillusioned. I have also been through the Fire department and that grunt, initiation. I am on your side trust me, and if you wanna just vent a little I also get those feels...

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Some of these complaints are either just fun venting or hilarious and immature... The RN preceptor is insane though lol

Come back when you've done a few rotations.

 

[Blanky]

Come back when you've done a few rotations.

Lol come back when you have some real experience.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Lol come back when you have some real experience.

You just got into med school and are still in undergrad. Go spend 150k until 3rd year then see what kind of education you like.

 

[Blanky]

You just got into med school and are still in undergrad. Go spend 150k until 3rd year then see what kind of education you like.

The entire premise of your argument is based solely on attacking me and the limits of my achievements. That is just weak and immature.
I already stated that I am on all of your sides but some of the complaints are hilarious. One third-year complained that he had to change a sheet on a bed. That's funny bro, what they don't have residents changing sheets on Grey Anatomy or whatever show these kids are watching? You are a student and it's not beneath you to learn and do everything. Again for the fourth time... I will be venting about it when I'm in 3rd year but believe me, I know its not all golden toilets and rose petals.
One guy complained about "constantly meeting new people" lol

 

[Sardonix]

Let's not start a Working Premed vs. Weathered 3rdyr pissing contest and just boil down the arguments and move on:

Premed: Out of context, you guys sound whiny and sort of funny, but I get that it's a long road and you're probably tired of dealing with BS. I'm sure I will be too when I get there, but chin up buttercups.

3rdyrs: Even if you have experience working in medicine, we're tired of jumping through hoops and will be particularly sensitive to anyone saying we sound silly. Be respectful and we'll tell you the things to watch out for when you're in our place 3 years from now.

 

[Redpancreas]

Y'all are right.

I'm just being a babyback biatch and it ain't cool.

I love medicine and my experience in school isn't bad.

I know how to play the game with people and fake the smiles and laughs, but I let it get to me this time around. I just hate the fact that I'm paying $50,000+ this year and that's all it is buying me.

I went to the gym today and did some cardio, hit some weights, and got my hair cut. It was all about self-care today.

Since my preceptor gave me the day off today, I'ma go watch netflix and cuddle in my blanket eatin' some of the finest poke bowls my area has to offer.

Appreciate y'all.

That won't help. You need to get help ASAP. More sleep, meditation, self-initiated mindfulness, exercise, etc. will only put a band-aid on the problem. A lot of what you say here is can be seen as funny at first glance, but you're literally starting to sound insane. Have you contacted your school's professional services yet?

 

[Redpancreas]

That won't help. You need to get help ASAP. More sleep, meditation, self-initiated mindfulness, exercise, etc. will only put a band-aid on the problem. A lot of what you say here is can be seen as funny at first glance, but you're literally starting to sound insane. Have you contacted your school's professional services yet?

Have ya done it?

 

[QueenJames]

Have ya done it?

Nope. LOL

I'm feeling much better as I am finally on a rotation where I get ample studying time, cool residents to learn from, and am motivated to actually study and am seeing patients outside of a stupid private practice.

Still not happy with my DO school but that's that.

Happy New Year to you my guy. I seriously do appreciate the concern. You a real one.

 

[Redpancreas]

I know I have to be careful with this because I've gotten in trouble with being rude to FailedatLife, etc. for similar reasons, but I really think you're being a bit obnoxious by posting all this on SDN and then posting that you feel great and feel like the gym helped you or that now that you're on a different rotation all the problems are fixed. You're always welcome to post your stuff on SDN and I'm glad you get some support here... I'm also not here to police anything. The part where you say ...Nope LOL...but oh btw, you're a real one...seems to me like a passive aggressive response and if that's how you respond to feedback in person, I'm not surprised you're having issues on rotations. Have you even tried counseling? I have on a voluntary basis. It's completely free and it's basically what some of the nice posters on here do for you, but a million times more personalized to you and in an even more confidential environment. Professionals work to have you question things you inherently tell yourself and it makes you a much more resilient and positive person regardless of whether you're coping well in medical school or not. Like you have sometimes remarked that people's posts make you feel so much better in separate threads. Like I'm glad SDN is a safe place for you and I hope you continue posts because sometimes it's good to show weakness to demonstrate that even the best of us break down sometimes...I've also seen you say nice things and make positive contributions to the forum quite a lot too.

If you want me to expand on how I think this case is harmful, I personally feel your posts here drastically exaggerate the emotional difficulty of medical school. SDN is typically a place people come to try to get the "real scoop" on what medical school is like because like you or I, they're tired of hearing the B.S. that appeals to the lowest common denominator that you sometimes hear as a rumor in undergrad. If I were a pre-med or someone enrolling in medical school soon and I read this thread, I would go in possibly believing this, thinking the system is inherently flawed and not give it a chance. I'd turn inwards for strength and ignore the help that's available around me and I feel like some of your posts read as an anthem promoting that mentality (think back to the Drake lyrics stuck in your head pre-Step 1). To those reading this, I feel like this thread is a case study in how not to interpret medical school unless you want to make life more difficult than it needs to be. It's OK to voice your frustration and have strangers online that relate to you, but when you start gang up and talk down to pre-meds telling them that your cynical view of medical school is the reality and they wouldn't know because they didn't experience it, that's where I think your posts may at times be doing more harm than good.

At this point, you're an M3. You have some major clout here (whether you're proud of that or care less). You should keep that in mind before making posts like "rotations suck". What you're essentially doing is capitalizing on the simultaneous frustration of others and using that as a cheap form of validation that it's not you, it's them. Instead, if you wanted to try to be exclusively positive with a growth mindset, you could phrase it as XYZ is my experience...what can I be doing better...but then you'll get unhelpful answers because no one knows you or the situation...which is why sometimes therapy is a good idea...

 

[QueenJames]

I know I have to be careful with this because I've gotten in trouble with being rude to FailedatLife, etc. for similar reasons, but I really think you're being a bit obnoxious by posting all this on SDN and then posting that you feel great and feel like the gym helped you or that now that you're on a different rotation all the problems are fixed. You're always welcome to post your stuff on SDN and I'm glad you get some support here... I'm also not here to police anything. The part where you say ...Nope LOL...but oh btw, you're a real one...seems to me like a passive aggressive response and if that's how you respond to feedback in person, I'm not surprised you're having issues on rotations. Have you even tried counseling? I have on a voluntary basis. It's completely free and it's basically what some of the nice posters on here do for you, but a million times more personalized to you and in an even more confidential environment. Professionals work to have you question things you inherently tell yourself and it makes you a much more resilient and positive person regardless of whether you're coping well in medical school or not. Like you have sometimes remarked that people's posts make you feel so much better in separate threads. Like I'm glad SDN is a safe place for you and I hope you continue posts because sometimes it's good to show weakness to demonstrate that even the best of us break down sometimes...I've also seen you say nice things and make positive contributions to the forum quite a lot too.

If you want me to expand on how I think this case is harmful, I personally feel your posts here drastically exaggerate the emotional difficulty of medical school. SDN is typically a place people come to try to get the "real scoop" on what medical school is like because like you or I, they're tired of hearing the B.S. that appeals to the lowest common denominator that you sometimes hear as a rumor in undergrad. If I were a pre-med or someone enrolling in medical school soon and I read this thread, I would go in possibly believing this, thinking the system is inherently flawed and not give it a chance. I'd turn inwards for strength and ignore the help that's available around me and I feel like some of your posts read as an anthem promoting that mentality (think back to the Drake lyrics stuck in your head pre-Step 1). To those reading this, I feel like this thread is a case study in how not to interpret medical school unless you want to make life more difficult than it needs to be. It's OK to voice your frustration and have strangers online that relate to you, but when you start gang up and talk down to pre-meds telling them that your cynical view of medical school is the reality and they wouldn't know because they didn't experience it, that's where I think your posts may at times be doing more harm than good.

I totally respect and understand your view. But in all honesty, I wasn't being passive aggressive. I say what I mean and mean what I say.

I apologize if you felt any type of way but seriously bro... I'm good. It really isn't that serious. lol

I am not exaggerating anything as this is MY experience.

I'm sure you had a great experience in medical school that was way different than mine, and you know what? That is awesome and I am happy for you.

Seriously.

But bro/sis... life is all about perspective. IDK your life experiences or what you have been through so I have no right to judge you. Just like you have no right to judge me or how I perceive MY experience in medical school.

The fact that you are basically telling me that I NEED counseling and some sort of professional help because I'm exaggerating is HILARIOUS.

It really isn't that serious dude.

If I told you the things I have seen and been through in my personal life BEFORE medical school, you wouldn't believe it. I personally don't care if you do or don't either. I don't take the internet or this forum serious at all.

The point I'm trying to make is that THERE IS A TON OF BULL on this site. When somebody comes in and tells it like it is, we have a swarm of butthurt med students and residents that make you believe that "NO... YOU ARE WRONG. IT'S LIKE THIS!".

I wasn't a sheltered pre-med like a majority of kiddos on this site. Who knows? Maybe YOU were one of those so maybe my realistic view and opinion kind of rubs you the wrong way. Idk and idc to know either.

But I'm not judging you. Do your thing homie.

I am literally sharing MY experience. MY opinion.

If you want to share yours, you are MORE than welcome to start your own thread. I'd love to read it.

Do I love medical school? YES. I do.

Does it suck at times? Yes.

But will I sugar coat it or sugar coat MY experience...? No.

Unfortunately, it has been sort of tainted by all of the bull that you only witness after the high of being accepted wears off and you realize that some schools just are a business at the end of the day.

AND... some.. okay.. A LOT of med students are just fake, easily butthurt, TYPE A, competitive, egotistical and insecure liars.

But it is what it is.

Your job is to learn on your own and go with the flow.

I'm trying my best every day and Idc if you believe me or not.

BTW, I respond to EVERY DM and inbox message I get on here and help these pre-meds out everyday and you can ask any one of them what I have said and the genuine advice I give.

I believe in free will but I will always share MY experience.

I don't bull**** anything and that's not how I or my folks program.

So idk what to say?

Thank you? sorry? I'm confused.

But here's a New Years hug for you.

*Queen extends virtual hug*

Peace and happiness brochacho.

 

[Redpancreas]

I totally respect and understand your view. But in all honesty, I wasn't being passive aggressive. I say what I mean and mean what I say.

I apologize if you felt any type of way but seriously bro... I'm good. It really isn't that serious. lol

I am not exaggerating anything as this is MY experience.

I'm sure you had a great experience in medical school that was way different than mine, and you know what? That is awesome and I am happy for you.

Seriously.

But bro/sis... life is all about perspective. IDK your life experiences or what you have been through so I have no right to judge you. Just like you have no right to judge me or how I perceive MY experience in medical school.

The fact that you are basically telling me that I NEED counseling and some sort of professional help because I'm exaggerating is HILARIOUS.

It really isn't that serious dude.

If I told you the things I have seen and been through in my personal life BEFORE medical school, you wouldn't believe it. I personally don't care if you do or don't either. I don't take the internet or this forum serious at all.

The point I'm trying to make is that THERE IS A TON OF BULL on this site. When somebody comes in and tells it like it is, we have a swarm of butthurt med students and residents that make you believe that "NO... YOU ARE WRONG. IT'S LIKE THIS!".

I wasn't a sheltered pre-med like a majority of kiddos on this site. Who knows? Maybe YOU were one of those so maybe my realistic view and opinion kind of rubs you the wrong way. Idk and idc to know either.

But I'm not judging you. Do your thing homie.

I am literally sharing MY experience. MY opinion.

If you want to share yours, you are MORE than welcome to start your own thread. I'd love to read it.

Do I love medical school? YES. I do.

Does it suck at times? Yes.

But will I sugar coat it or sugar coat MY experience...? No.

Unfortunately, it has been sort of tainted by all of the bull that you only witness after the high of being accepted wears off and you realize that some schools just are a business at the end of the day.

Your job is to learn on your own and go with the flow.

I'm trying my best every day and Idc if you believe me or not.

BTW, I respond to EVERY DM and inbox message I get on here and help these pre-meds out everyday and you can ask any one of them what I have said and the genuine advice I give.

I believe in free will but I will always share MY experience.

I don't bull**** anything and that's not how I or my folks program.

So idk what to say?

Thank you? sorry? I'm confused.

But here's a New Years hug for you.

*Queen extends virtual hug*

Peace and happiness brochacho.

Counseling is not just for people who have issues. It’s beneficial for everyone. You’re basically indirectly soliciting counseling by posting these insane stories on SDN and continually wasting people’s time with your warped views. What I’m saying is you’ll get better results by talking to someone in person who will you get to know who and will take time to understand you in ways you can’t over the internet.

I’m sure you help with PMs and do legitimate good, but that doesn’t mean all the things you’re doing (i.e. this thread) are productive. I don’t think you’re “keeping it real”. I think you’re scaring people and brewing excessive distrust in an institution. Some of what you say I can relate too, we’ve all been there, but you have had a repeated pattern of constantly creating this “us vs. them” mentality and whenever confronted, you maintain that you’re keeping it real (as if to say everyone else is fake).

If you want to know my story, I developed anxiety in medical school. I went to my counselor after I almost failed an exam and he recommended a program within the institution that was FREE and confidential. I went three times and learnt how I personally tend to falsely perceive things. I am not an amazing or perfect person, but am probably a better person because of those sessions. I learnt more about myself in those two weeks than I did in the whole prior semester. I have a very hard time believing all of what you say is due to the system and not partly due to your own lack of perception and insight. That’s why I am saying what I am. Not because I am doubting your value to the SDN community or because I take malicious pleasure in putting nice people down. I have just genuinely found your posts annoying and find your attitude to my feedback dismissive. As for being a sheltered pre-med, I won’t deny that, but it doesn’t matter where you come from, but where you end up and I think that I’m no longer that person.

On a semi-unrelated note, speaking from experience, don’t get complicit with the advice you give out on this site and fool yourself into thinking every bit is helping. I’m sure a large amount does and you touch many in a positive way. There are some people on this site though who spam message people for advice and don’t even take time to comprehend what you’re saying. There’s also some weird people out there. I used to do a lot of one-on-one customized help via DMs, but then I learnt I was literally helping someone who was sexually harassing girls with revenge porn. It’s always good to help, but I feel a more productive use of my time now is to give my two cents as threads and let people critique them openly then just rant away on DMs when I don’t even know if the person is listening.

Hugs to you too man.

 

[Iz_FtB]

Counseling is not just for people who have issues. It’s beneficial for everyone. You’re basically indirectly soliciting counseling by posting these insane stories on SDN and continually wasting people’s time with your warped views. What I’m saying is you’ll get better results by talking to someone in person who will you get to know who and will take time to understand you in ways you can’t over the internet.

I’m sure you help with PMs and do legitimate good, but that doesn’t mean all the things you’re doing (i.e. this thread) are productive. I don’t think you’re “keeping it real”. I think you’re scaring people and brewing excessive distrust in an institution. Some of what you say I can relate too, we’ve all been there, but you have had a repeated pattern of constantly creating this “us vs. them” mentality and whenever confronted, you maintain that you’re keeping it real (as if to say everyone else is fake).

If you want to know my story, I developed anxiety in medical school. I went to my counselor after I almost failed an exam and he recommended a program within the institution that was FREE and confidential. I went three times and learnt how I personally tend to falsely perceive things. I am not an amazing or perfect person, but am probably a better person because of those sessions. I learnt more about myself in those two weeks than I did in the whole prior semester. I have a very hard time believing all of what you say is due to the system and not partly due to your own lack of perception and insight. That’s why I am saying what I am. Not because I am doubting your value to the SDN community or because I take malicious pleasure in putting nice people down. I have just genuinely found your posts annoying and find your attitude to my feedback dismissive. As for being a sheltered pre-med, I won’t deny that, but it doesn’t matter where you come from, but where you end up and I think that I’m no longer that person.

On a semi-unrelated note, speaking from experience, don’t get complicit with the advice you give out on this site and fool yourself into thinking every bit is helping. I’m sure a large amount does and you touch many in a positive way. There are some people on this site though who spam message people for advice and don’t even take time to comprehend what you’re saying. There’s also some weird people out there. I used to do a lot of one-on-one customized help via DMs, but then I learnt I was literally helping someone who was sexually harassing girls with revenge porn. It’s always good to help, but I feel a more productive use of my time now is to give my two cents as threads and let people critique them openly then just rant away on DMs when I don’t even know if the person is listening.

Hugs to you too man.

Bro, relax.

 

[Redpancreas]

Bro, relax.

I am. Today's my day off..

 

[Gurby]

Counseling is not just for people who have issues. It’s beneficial for everyone.

Want to echo this. I have met some really high-functioning, squared-away, socially intelligent people that have confided in me that they see a shrink regularly.

 

[SLC]

How many hours do you think attendings and medical students work?

The most recent survey of Peds had private practice working 45 hours per week and academics working 55. I was usually well over 60 hours per week as a medical student and well over 80 (including non clinical work) as a resident

I’ll admit I’m usually only working 32hrs per week right now as an attending, but when I take hospitalist call those hours can ballon quickly. I put in 40hrs this past weekend alone (over the course of 2.5 days), which is by far the busiest I’ve been.

I’d say my average is 32-50 hrs total per week though. 32 when I’m just in the office, 50 (average) when I’m the weekend hospitalist.

 

[Sardonix]

I’ll admit I’m usually only working 32hrs per week right now as an attending, but when I take hospitalist call those hours can ballon quickly. I put in 40hrs this past weekend alone (over the course of 2.5 days), which is by far the busiest I’ve been.

I’d say my average is 32-50 hrs total per week though. 32 when I’m just in the office, 50 (average) when I’m the weekend hospitalist.

*Salivating intensifies

 

[Candidate2017]

Want to echo this. I have met some really high-functioning, squared-away, socially intelligent people that have confided in me that they see a shrink regularly.

Everyone could possibly benefit from counseling. Psychotherapy on the other hand is for very high functioning people. It's a shame most med students and doctors don't seek access to PhD psychotherapists or psychiatrists well-trained in psychotherapy. Or maybe it speaks to the functional level and/or social intelligence of people in the profession?

 

[tunicaexterna]

I'm so tired of constantly meeting new people. 4-week rotations at different sites blows.

I feel this in the depths of my soul



Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[shaosoldier]

What's up gang.

Anybody else just really not feeling their third year/fourth year rotations?

IDK if it's mainly cause of my program, or being at a DO school, but I HATE feeling this way. I definitely try and I definitely hold my composure and just go with the flow. My evals and COMATs have been in the Pass/High Pass range thus far (Sorry... Not the Honors like 90% of the folks on this site ) and I try to go into each rotation with a positive mindset and do my job....

BUT jesus... I feel like it's just one all suckfest of glorified shadowing, bitchy obese nurses being sarcastic, being talked down to, and learning to just take **** from everybody and anybody.

I'm genuinely just ****ing hating this **** thus far.

You want me to set up the room for the next patient? Sure. I'd be glad to.

But if I ask where this lubricant gel is or where this set of gloves or whatever is at and if you could show me so that I don't have to ask next tine... and you sigh and make me feel like a burden... then wtf?

Lol Eff off and get that **** yourself. I'm not paying to set up a stupid ass room for your lazy ass because you don't want to. I'm doing it because I genuinely want to get the patient in faster and get them out... just like you. Like WTF? This isn't even my job.

If we have downtime and I whip out my phone to do questions or bring my books to read up on a certain topic, my preceptor wants me to start doing his/her charting for him. THAT"S NOT MY GODDAMN JOB. WTF! I'M HERE TO LEARN. I"M HERE TO PERFECT MY PHYSICAL EXAM SKILLS, MY DIFFERENTIALS, AND MY GODDAMN PRESENTATION.... NOT TO BE YOUR LITTLE COMPUTER SLAVE clicking away on your stupid EMR to check boxes and look up ICD 10 codes for you!

Or how about being sent into a room with NO IDEA what the patient is here for. What's the chief complaint? What's their vitals? WTF am I doing? Like this is bull****. Now the patient looks at me like I'm some clueless idiot and they are already pissed they had to wait 15 minutes for somebody to see them at all.

I REALLY THINK rotations should be HALF-DAYS. That's MORE than enough time for me to decide if I like your specialty. The first 2 c sections are all I need to know that I hate OB. The first appendectomy and stupid early morning rounds and bitchy attending is all I need to see that let's me know I hate surgery. The first bitchy parent and their annoying ass child who won't sit still for me to do a physical exam while they are kicking and screaming is all I need to see to let me know I hate peds.

Idk.

Maybe I'm burnt out.

I needed to vent.

Some major advice to you pre-meds or first and second years that may be reading this - MAKE SURE YOUR SCHOOL HAS LEGIT PLACES FOR YOU TO ROTATE. Dedicated studying time is nice and all... but your real chances to learn occur in the real life and right now my knowledge (the very little I have) isn't being applied in the right context.

I could get more from reading and doing questions rather than being in clinic.

good luck to y'all though.

Scutwork is a part of the game, your attendings had to do it too during their time. Overall the hazing culture is dying down and isn't as intense as it was since the new wave of attendings of the 00' era but it still exist. Best advice is, as long as no one is causing physical harm and you're not feeling a sense of hopelessness, take it on the chin. If you are starting to feel sense of despair and self-loathing, I would take a little break, ain't no shame in it, talk to your school. Push yourself, but don't go beyond the point of self damage.

Best of luck man, stay in there.

 

[863168]

@Syncrohnize I don't think that it's constructive to have a limited perspective when it comes to perceiving a collective experience e.g. attending medical school or clinical performance. That being said, I think it's positive to have someone who identifies themselves as an outsider to give their own account of what it feels like to survive throughout medical school as an outsider. I would like to think that the reason why medicine promotes diversity is to encourage various perspectives, especially perspectives that challenge whatever may be accepted as being status quo due to ad hoc reasoning.

I think that certain people may not like the stream of consciousness style of typing that he chooses, but I don't think that it necessitates encouraging him to see a therapist. Even though I am aware you coupled this with his insider/outsider mentality, I think that he has been successful so far because of this attitude and there has been no indication of it being a delusion as he has clarified that his view on life isn't representative of life itself. I do agree with you that therapy can be a positive experience for everyone and anyone, but it needs to largely come from a place of self-recognition and acceptance in order for it to be effective. It is also not a flaw to decide that therapy is not an effective option as it is the individual who will pay for their own sessions as well as opportunity cost/human capital in which there are many practical limitations that prevent cbt/dbt from being valid options for consideration.

 

[Redpancreas]

@Syncrohnize I don't think that it's constructive to have a limited perspective when it comes to perceiving a collective experience e.g. attending medical school or clinical performance. That being said, I think it's positive to have someone who identifies themselves as an outsider to give their own account of what it feels like to survive throughout medical school as an outsider. I would like to think that the reason why medicine promotes diversity is to encourage various perspectives, especially perspectives that challenge the notion of the status quo.

I think that certain people may not like the stream of consciousness style of typing that he chooses, but I don't think that it necessitates encouraging him to see a therapist. Even though I am aware you coupled this with his insider/outsider mentality, I think that he has been successful so far because of this attitude and there has been no indication of it being a delusion as he has clarified that his view on life isn't representative of life itself. I do agree with you that therapy can be a positive experience for everyone and anyone, but it needs to largely come from a place of self-recognition and acceptance in order for it to be effective. It is also not a flaw to decide that therapy is not an effective option as it is the individual who will pay for their own sessions as well as opportunity cost/human capital in which there are many practical limitations that prevent cbt/dbt from being valid options for consideration.

If I were to sum it up in a few sentences, I think OP is making medical school out to be worse than it is. I also don’t see the connection of between “being an outsider” and having these bad experiences.

That said, it’s not my place to lecture OP into doing something. I’ve said my bit so others can se eit and now I’ve encountered resistance so maybe I’m wrong. I’ll just ignore his future posts because they just have an air of negativity that drags me down.

 

[ciestar]

Well, @QueenJames, after getting my IM grade I’m back with you. The subjectivity of this year is absolutely annoying (i know all students deal with this..). I hardly received feedback and even when I did, I got the classical “you’re doing great!” but also, “read more”.

So great my eval was lackluster. So im kind of pissed and now discouraged.

Thankfully for OBGYN they do the evals a bit differently and literally have written for the weaknesses section to NOT say “read more”

But, it can get better. Im on GYN/ONC this week and they’re letting me do a lot in the OR despite the fact that I haven’t had surgery yet.

 

[QueenJames]

Well, @QueenJames, after getting my IM grade I’m back with you. The subjectivity of this year is absolutely annoying (i know all students deal with this..). I hardly received feedback and even when I did, I got the classical “you’re doing great!” but also, “read more”.

So great my eval was lackluster. So im kind of pissed and now discouraged.

Thankfully for OBGYN they do the evals a bit differently and literally have written for the weaknesses section to NOT say “read more”

But, it can get better. Im on GYN/ONC this week and they’re letting me do a lot in the OR despite the fact that I haven’t had surgery yet.

I AM BACK.

Sorry broski. Was on probation for a bit.

Got some pissy med students butt hurt cause of a comment on a different thread.

What else is new? Amirite???

But yes. That's medicine man.

I've been getting many high passes on letters and evals but just using common sense.

You'd be surprised how many med students are just DUMB socially.

I'm currently on a rotation with students who are great bookworms... but they are just not socially aware of their role and what their purpose is on a team.

They don't stfu when the attending is rounding, they show up late to rounds, they are on their phones during sign out, they are walking in front of the attending and residents like snails glued to their phones during rounds and holding him back... and it's EASY to stick out by NOT doing this dumb ****.

While I'm in the room writing down wtf the plan for the pt is, these *******es are by the door telling jokes and don't realize how immature they look.

Don't be discouraged though bro.

Keep trying your best and bust your ass for boards.

You're gonna be a great doc.

Don't lose that passion.

<3

 

[Sardonix]

Also throwing my hat in to say I just had a rotation where I aced the shelf and thought I got along great with the physician.

Straight pass. No comments. Like, none at all. Didn't even know that was allowed.

 

[ciestar]

Also throwing my hat in to say I just had a rotation where I aced the shelf and thought I got along great with the physician.

Straight pass. No comments. Like, none at all. Didn't even know that was allowed.

That hurts.

 

[ciestar]

I AM BACK.

Sorry broski. Was on probation for a bit.

Got some pissy med students butt hurt cause of a comment on a different thread.

What else is new? Amirite???

But yes. That's medicine man.

I've been getting many high passes on letters and evals but just using common sense.

You'd be surprised how many med students are just DUMB socially.

I'm currently on a rotation with students who are great bookworms... but they are just not socially aware of their role and what their purpose is on a team.

They don't stfu when the attending is rounding, they show up late to rounds, they are on their phones during sign out, they are walking in front of the attending and residents like snails glued to their phones during rounds and holding him back... and it's EASY to stick out by NOT doing this dumb ****.

While I'm in the room writing down wtf the plan for the pt is, these *******es are by the door telling jokes and don't realize how immature they look.

Don't be discouraged though bro.

Keep trying your best and bust your ass for boards.

You're gonna be a great doc.

Don't lose that passion.

<3

More fun: I honored my peds shelf, but how do you think my evals went when I spent half my rotation shadowing? I give up.

But I totally agree about dumb students. It stuns me how inappropriate some people can be. Classmates that curse in front of residents/attendings, being on their phone whenever, seeing a classmate on Tinder while running the list, falling asleep during rounds/lecture... amazing stuff