RPHS quitting due to vaccine mandate??

[quickpic007]

Anyone have strong Anti-Vax RPHS in their district? I know of a few who are threatening to leave/retire over this when it becomes required next year. I am thinking there may be more job openings soon.

The highest sign on I have seen advertised is 50K by both WG and CVS. I am thinking if enough of these boomers throw in the towel we might see 100k up front soon for experienced managers (myself included). Exciting!

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[PharmDBro2017]

Good riddance to em!

 

[sdh0202]

Yup I can see 100k sign-on bonus with the pay rate of $30 per hour

 

[Dred Pirate]

more people quit = more open jobs. Plus the one's quitting likely aren't the best rph is they don't understand science

 

[radio frequency]

I don’t think I’d miss any of the ones quitting over this.

 

[Sparda29]

I think there was a hospital in Houston that had a mandate early on and I brought it up to the day shift coworkers. Half agreed with the mandate and half disagreed. When our hospital mandated it, they all shut up and took the vaccines once they realized the religious and medical exemptions were not being accepted.

 

[RxPreceptor]

All in favor of getting rid of the Hippocrates. Political views/philosophy/opinions have no place at work

 

[Dred Pirate]

I think there was a hospital in Houston that had a mandate early on and I brought it up to the day shift coworkers. Half agreed with the mandate and half disagreed. When our hospital mandated it, they all shut up and took the vaccines once they realized the religious and medical exemptions were not being accepted.

I think as they evidence shows the benefit vs risk ratio weighs heavily to the benefit side, anyone with half a brain sees why we have a mandate.

 

[PharmtoCS]

More jobs for those who believe in science? Win-win.

 

[mentos]

Didn't all these antivaxers get their hep, rotavirus, polio, MMR, varicella etc vaccines before school? Why is this any different?

 

[owlegrad]

Didn't all these antivaxers get their hep, rotavirus, polio, MMR, varicella etc vaccines before school? Why is this any different?

I asked an antivax coworker about that. All they said was “that’s different”. I wasn’t able to pin them down about what is different except a general sense that we don’t know enough about the Covid vaccine yet.

I suspect what’s really different is they were kids when they got the others and there just wasn’t as strong an antiscience movement back then?

 

[gwarm01]

I asked an antivax coworker about that. All they said was “that’s different”. I wasn’t able to pin them down about what is different except a general sense that we don’t know enough about the Covid vaccine yet.

I suspect what’s really different is they were kids when they got the others and there just wasn’t as strong an antiscience movement back then?

It's also almost entirely along political lines too, which is just tragically stupid.

 

[footfairy]

It's also almost entirely along political lines too, which is just tragically stupid.

Not entirely. Theres strong resistance in the black community as well, which is generally opposite of Republican/Conservative.

 

[mentos]

Not entirely. Theres strong resistance in the black community as well, which is generally opposite of Republican/Conservative.

What I don't understand most is resistance from healthcare workers. Nurses quitting due to the vaccine mandate. How can you be in healthcare and be antivax? Blows my mind.

 

[owlegrad]

What I don't understand most is resistance from healthcare workers. Nurses quitting due to the vaccine mandate. How can you be in healthcare and be antivax? Blows my mind.

^^^^this

I truly don’t get it. How can you be in healthcare and be antivax? Vaccines are literally our best medicine.

 

[footfairy]

^^^^this

I truly don’t get it. How can you be in healthcare and be antivax? Vaccines are literally our best medicine.

Nurses dont really receive any education on how evidence based medication works. Theres usually no mandatory statistics classes, they dont go over clinical trials, they are constantly praised on a national level, and at the hospital level they wield a disproportionate amount of power. All together it lends itself to a large cohort of individuals that think they know a lot more about health and science than they actually do and no one is ever allowed to check them on their behaviors because hospital administration generally sides with nursing.

Source: I have multiple family members who are nurses and have had 2 nursing students as technicians.

 

[BenJammin]

Didn't all these antivaxers get their hep, rotavirus, polio, MMR, varicella etc vaccines before school? Why is this any different?

Flavor of the week. I wonder what will be on the menu in 2022....

 

[Sparda29]

Nurses dont really receive any education on how evidence based medication works. Theres usually no mandatory statistics classes, they dont go over clinical trials, they are constantly praised on a national level, and at the hospital level they wield a disproportionate amount of power. All together it lends itself to a large cohort of individuals that think they know a lot more about health and science than they actually do and no one is ever allowed to check them on their behaviors because hospital administration generally sides with nursing.

Source: I have multiple family members who are nurses and have had 2 nursing students as technicians.

It is absurd that the Director of Pharmacy's boss at my hospital is a ****ing RN.

 

[FutureInternist]

Didn't all these antivaxers get their hep, rotavirus, polio, MMR, varicella etc vaccines before school? Why is this any different?

Politics

 

[PharmDBro2017]

Has everyone here got their booster? If so did you switch vaccines? I've put it off but now thinking I need to get moderna (pfizer x 2 initially).

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Nurses dont really receive any education on how evidence based medication works. Theres usually no mandatory statistics classes, they dont go over clinical trials, they are constantly praised on a national level, and at the hospital level they wield a disproportionate amount of power. All together it lends itself to a large cohort of individuals that think they know a lot more about health and science than they actually do and no one is ever allowed to check them on their behaviors because hospital administration generally sides with nursing.

Source: I have multiple family members who are nurses and have had 2 nursing students as technicians.

Preach.

Nurses in inpatient pharmacy are the equivalent to the general public in retail. Every time I hear anyone say "I'm a nurse" I instinctively roll my eyes.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Has everyone here got their booster? If so did you switch vaccines? I've put it off but now thinking I need to get moderna (pfizer x 2 initially).

I'm team triple Pfizer.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Has everyone here got their booster? If so did you switch vaccines? I've put it off but now thinking I need to get moderna (pfizer x 2 initially).

I had Moderna for all 3. Assuming it was easy to get, I probably would have gone for a Moderna booster if I had Pfizer originally.

 

[grumpyRph]

how can you be in support of these mandates when the science is always changing? so many judgmental people here. just because you are anti-mandate doesn't mean you are anti-vax. it's sad to see the health care professional turn so politicized and judgmental based on people's personal choices. we weren't supposed to be like that, we take care of anyone. people make poor choices all their lives and end up needing us for the care and meds. are you guys the pharmacists who would lecture someone picking up metformin and a bag of chips? i doubt it. And why wouldn't they honor previous infection as natural immunity instead of getting this experimental jab from big pharma? wake up people.

 

[M0df]

If anything, mandates are 6-8 months too late. No opinion on current mandates. I guess I just don't care. It has mutated and it will again. If you want your shot, I will give you one. If you don't, just don't get paid sick time. You are right. Diabetes is just as much of a personal choice as this.

 

[mentos]

how can you be in support of these mandates when the science is always changing? so many judgmental people here. just because you are anti-mandate doesn't mean you are anti-vax. it's sad to see the health care professional turn so politicized and judgmental based on people's personal choices. we weren't supposed to be like that, we take care of anyone. people make poor choices all their lives and end up needing us for the care and meds. are you guys the pharmacists who would lecture someone picking up metformin and a bag of chips? i doubt it. And why wouldn't they honor previous infection as natural immunity instead of getting this experimental jab from big pharma? wake up people.

Can't tell if serious. But it's common knowledge that vaccination reduces hospitalizations and deaths. Or maybe it's not common knowledge.

 

[sadface]

I hate when I catch diabetes from other people. And when there’s so many diabetics taking up icu beds that my patients die in lower levels of care. And when people recommend I take experimental fda approved drugs like metformin.

 

[M0df]

I mean he is right. Booster feels like desperation. Efficacy is way down. A year ago we were talking about 90%+, now 20-30% benefit? There are people in hospitals getting special shipments of ivermectin from TX pharmacies and demanding hospital standard of care be thrown out the door too. As I said, as long as Kyrie stays home and doesnt walk around Flatbush infecting 100s of people, I don't care about his immunization status.

 

[radio frequency]

Has everyone here got their booster? If so did you switch vaccines? I've put it off but now thinking I need to get moderna (pfizer x 2 initially).

I switched teams. I don‘t know that it matters ultimately as Pfizer and Moderna are so similar, but it was sort of fun, like signing up for my own n=1 science experiment.

 

[grumpyRph]

Can't tell if serious. But it's common knowledge that vaccination reduces hospitalizations and deaths. Or maybe it's not common knowledge.

so do healthy lifestyles. wtf. let the vulnerable get the vaccine then. mandate it to a certain BMI. excuse me but 5 years old and up? mandate? for a cold virus. this is nuts.

 

[grumpyRph]

I hate when I catch diabetes from other people. And when there’s so many diabetics taking up icu beds that my patients die in lower levels of care. And when people recommend I take experimental fda approved drugs like metformin.

well diabetics are more prone to illness, and then more prone to more severe outcomes, so they could have a *worse* cold, just like an unvaccinated, and therefore spread it more easily, 'cause they'll have a stronger cough? or i'm sorry, last i read, omicron causes scratchy throat. so an unvaccinated and diabetic person will have a stronger scratchy throat, and therefore kill themselves and everyone around them. thanks for acting super cute tho.

the problem is, people are just throwing "anti vax" in one encompassing group, allowing NO ROOM for nuance or exceptions, and it's sick. god forbid someone be skeptical of big pharma or the most politicized virus of all f'ing time. and you all forget when all the democrat politicians were "skeptical" of the trump vaccine, and now they say, get it or lose your job and livelihood? how can you not take a step back and see how insane all this is. "Hi, i'm the ceo of pfizer, my product works, so here's a lifetime subscription, just trust me"

 

[BenJammin]

Vaccine mandate still alive and well at my company. Abbott keeps saying that they're illegal but he has no power to do anything. All talk no action.

 

[radio frequency]

so do healthy lifestyles. wtf. let the vulnerable get the vaccine then. mandate it to a certain BMI. excuse me but 5 years old and up? mandate? for a cold virus. this is nuts.

800,000+ Americans dead is a “cold virus”? You can’t be serious. Or well informed.

 

[sadface]

well diabetics are more prone to illness, and then more prone to more severe outcomes, so they could have a *worse* cold, just like an unvaccinated, and therefore spread it more easily, 'cause they'll have a stronger cough? or i'm sorry, last i read, omicron causes scratchy throat. so an unvaccinated and diabetic person will have a stronger scratchy throat, and therefore kill themselves and everyone around them. thanks for acting super cute tho.

the problem is, people are just throwing "anti vax" in one encompassing group, allowing NO ROOM for nuance or exceptions, and it's sick. god forbid someone be skeptical of big pharma or the most politicized virus of all f'ing time. and you all forget when all the democrat politicians were "skeptical" of the trump vaccine, and now they say, get it or lose your job and livelihood? how can you not take a step back and see how insane all this is. "Hi, i'm the ceo of pfizer, my product works, so here's a lifetime subscription, just trust me"

I don’t think you got my point at all.

Debating the mandate is one thing, but you sound like the one politicizing things instead of looking to the evidence to inform your viewpoint.

 

[mentos]

so do healthy lifestyles. wtf. let the vulnerable get the vaccine then. mandate it to a certain BMI. excuse me but 5 years old and up? mandate? for a cold virus. this is nuts.

You have to be trolling? How many deaths does the cold cause per year? How many people are intubated in the ICU due to a cold?

the problem is, people are just throwing "anti vax" in one encompassing group, allowing NO ROOM for nuance or exceptions, and it's sick. god forbid someone be skeptical of big pharma or the most politicized virus of all f'ing time. and you all forget when all the democrat politicians were "skeptical" of the trump vaccine, and now they say, get it or lose your job and livelihood? how can you not take a step back and see how insane all this is. "Hi, i'm the ceo of pfizer, my product works, so here's a lifetime subscription, just trust me"

No one mentioned politics except you.

 

[grumpyRph]

i'm not trolling at all. offering a counterpoint and another angle. i think it's fair for people to be skeptical of the vaccine. i've always wondered why this vaccine can't just be offered to the vulnerable like the pneumonia shot for example. how many times did the media beat into our brains that this disease causes bad outcomes for those with comorbidities and old age? and now we're told the vaccine doesn't stop the spread? so how does a mandate for every living human being even make sense? but sure. trust pfizer.

 

[owlegrad]

I am curious, for those who are anti-mandate - is there anything that could change your mind? Would any amount of evidence convince you that the vaccine should be required or is it the principal of the matter that you object to?

If you are anti-mandate, does that apply to other vaccines as well? We have had vaccine mandates for a long time and they have been very effective so why shouldn’t they be required?

I just don’t get it. Vaccines are cheap and effective. How many people have been spared from terrible fates just by getting vaccines as a child? It’s incredible.

 

[grumpyRph]

I am curious, for those who are anti-mandate - is there anything that could change your mind? Would any amount of evidence convince you that the vaccine should be required or is it the principal of the matter that you object to?

If you are anti-mandate, does that apply to other vaccines as well? We have had vaccine mandates for a long time and they have been very effective so why shouldn’t they be required?

I just don’t get it. Vaccines are cheap and effective. How many people have been spared from terrible fates just by getting vaccines as a child? It’s incredible.

um. the science is always changing? apparently. for these vaccines. they can't even decide yet how many shots are effective or effectiveness against variants. so why mandate it to participate in society? i guess if you don't live in certain cities like LA, NYC, SF, etc you don't understand how ridiculous it is for a starbucks barista to verify your vaccine status so you can sit down and drink your coffee.

once again: NO NUANCE! it's just: ALL! NOW!

"we have had vaccine mandates for a long time" tell me about all the vaccine mandates before that were so normal where i had to show my vax status to go to the gym or sit down and eat at a coffee shop.

 

[mentos]

um. the science is always changing? apparently. for these vaccines. they can't even decide yet how many shots are effective or effectiveness against variants. so why mandate it to participate in society? i guess if you don't live in certain cities like LA, NYC, SF, etc you don't understand how ridiculous it is for a starbucks barista to verify your vaccine status so you can sit down and drink your coffee.

once again: NO NUANCE! it's just: ALL! NOW!

"we have had vaccine mandates for a long time" tell me about all the vaccine mandates before that were so normal where i had to show my vax status to go to the gym or sit down and eat at a coffee shop.

It's changing because the virus is mutating. You should already know how highly contagious Covid is and how it spreads, we shouldn't have to explain it to you.

I was required to have a ton of vaccines before entering pharmacy school. I was behind and had to get 3-4 before school started. Most other students were in the same situation and no one complained.

 

[Sparda29]

um. the science is always changing? apparently. for these vaccines. they can't even decide yet how many shots are effective or effectiveness against variants. so why mandate it to participate in society? i guess if you don't live in certain cities like LA, NYC, SF, etc you don't understand how ridiculous it is for a starbucks barista to verify your vaccine status so you can sit down and drink your coffee.

once again: NO NUANCE! it's just: ALL! NOW!

"we have had vaccine mandates for a long time" tell me about all the vaccine mandates before that were so normal where i had to show my vax status to go to the gym or sit down and eat at a coffee shop.

Had to get a bunch of vaccines to go to pharmacy school. Jobs bugged me every year to get flu shot. Tb check every year.

Other diseases don't make you all of a sudden have trouble breathing.

 

[mentos]

I forgot flu vaccine and TB test are required at work too. No one complains about those.

 

[owlegrad]

"we have had vaccine mandates for a long time" tell me about all the vaccine mandates before that were so normal where i had to show my vax status to go to the gym or sit down and eat at a coffee shop.

So is your objection to a vaccine mandate that gyms and coffee shops shouldn’t be the enforcers? Or do you object to any institution, private or public, requiring any vaccine?

 

[grumpyRph]

just find the whole thing weird. flu shot requirements are weird too then. they take a guess every year anyway. i know i'm not speaking with evidence and stats, but you know this is basically what they do. sorry i have no graphs and charts. when they want to ignore previous infections and ignore the fact that most people will have mild illness anyway without a vaccine, i think there's plenty of room and reason why someone would remain skeptic about the vaccine and def the mandate.

 

[grumpyRph]

So is your objection to a vaccine mandate that gyms and coffee shops shouldn’t be the enforcers? Or do you object to any institution, private or public, requiring any vaccine?

no, not any vaccine!!! just this one in particular! i know you guys aren't trying to "politicize" this topic, but there's just no way you can take the politics out of this. if what we know about the virus and vaccine is "always changing" to such a "novel" virus, the mandates are such a heavy handed political move. i guess i'm thinking outside of hospitals. 'cause i get how you don't want to spread illness to the more vulnerable inside a medical facility, that's all well and dandy (yet the cdc keeps telling us it doesn't prevent the spread anymore, so there's that).

all you have to do is read a mainstream news article to learn that pfizer and moderna took a guess at the dose. pfizer only did the 3 week interval to rush to get the first approval, there wasn't anything scientific about it. and then moderna turned out to be more effective, if you just waited longer to make a decision. if people want to remain skeptic of "operation warp speed trump big pharma knows best" vaccine, i think that's fair! sorry! especially if you are young and healthy. i am more willing to accept the nuance, like how boosters were first available to those at certain ages and with comorbidities. fine. easy pill to swallow. and the mandates for health care facilities and nursing homes. ok. but these goofy mandates to go party in nyc, LA, and SF, c'mon. lol.

 

[mentos]

no, not any vaccine!!! just this one in particular! i know you guys aren't trying to "politicize" this topic, but there's just no way you can take the politics out of this. if what we know about the virus and vaccine is "always changing" to such a "novel" virus, the mandates are such a heavy handed political move. i guess i'm thinking outside of hospitals. 'cause i get how you don't want to spread illness to the more vulnerable inside a medical facility, that's all well and dandy (yet the cdc keeps telling us it doesn't prevent the spread anymore, so there's that).

all you have to do is read a mainstream news article to learn that pfizer and moderna took a guess at the dose. pfizer only did the 3 week interval to rush to get the first approval, there wasn't anything scientific about it. and then moderna turned out to be more effective, if you just waited longer to make a decision. if people want to remain skeptic of "operation warp speed trump big pharma knows best" vaccine, i think that's fair! sorry! especially if you are young and healthy. i am more willing to accept the nuance, like how boosters were first available to those at certain ages and with comorbidities. fine. easy pill to swallow. and the mandates for health care facilities and nursing homes. ok. but these goofy mandates to go party in nyc, LA, and SF, c'mon. lol.

I don't really follow politics or the news so I don't know what you're talking about in terms of politicizing this. What about Johnson & Johnson/Janssen? My workplace mostly dispenses that manufacturer.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

all you have to do is read a mainstream news article to learn that pfizer and moderna took a guess at the dose. pfizer only did the 3 week interval to rush to get the first approval, there wasn't anything scientific about it. and then moderna turned out to be more effective, if you just waited longer to make a decision. if people want to remain skeptic of "operation warp speed trump big pharma knows best" vaccine, i think that's fair! sorry

I understood this argument a year ago but at this point we've vaccinated well over 200 million people in the US alone. Regardless of how dosing and timing were decided, the vaccines are safe and effective. It isn't like you have to just trust data coming from Pfizer/Moderna either: look at population based numbers. Hospitalization and death rates are dramatically lower in areas where vaccine uptake was high.

2 of the 3 major ICUs in my county are over 100% capacity, the third is rapidly approaching. We don't have room to be hospitalizing people when they could have just taken a free vaccine

 

[PharmtoCS]

just find the whole thing weird. flu shot requirements are weird too then. they take a guess every year anyway. i know i'm not speaking with evidence and stats, but you know this is basically what they do. sorry i have no graphs and charts. when they want to ignore previous infections and ignore the fact that most people will have mild illness anyway without a vaccine, i think there's plenty of room and reason why someone would remain skeptic about the vaccine and def the mandate.

So you admit that your points are tied to zero scientific reasoning other than that shot requirements are "weird."

 

[mentos]

Notice how the majority of hospitalizations and deaths are from unvaccinated patients? Many ICU doctors and nurses feel no sympathy for them anymore. All they had to do was get vaccinated.

 

[storyhill]

Had to get a bunch of vaccines to go to pharmacy school. Jobs bugged me every year to get flu shot. Tb check every year.

Other diseases don't make you all of a sudden have trouble breathing.

pneumonia?

 

[storyhill]

I am one of the anti mandate pharmacists. I was ready to quit at my hospital after mandate started here, as I knew another hospital that didn't have a mandate. I had a lot of reasons for not wanting to get the vaccine. I was actually signed up to get it early with the first wave of availability and cancelled my appointment. The thing that made me cancel my appointment was I was told that we would still be required to wear masks at work because you can still spread the virus even if fully vaccinated. Well this was my only reason I did want to get it. So once that was off the table, I didn't have a reason to get it. Because I felt I was in such a low risk category ( healthy, no chronic conditions) I just don't feel a need to get it. I wear a mask all the time at work. My current hospital accepted my religious obejection. Another hospital a few hours away wanted me to work some prn shifts for them and they have a mandate. I told them that I am not vaccinated for Covid and they said they would accept my religious objection. I've been glad that my employer has at least respected this aspect of it but I don't like the mandate. The way that people treat non vaccinated people or talk about them is a big turn off to me and makes me want to be a part of the "looked down upon" and not want to not get it. I am not much of a conformist if I don't think it's important. I work among covid positive patients everyday. I do codes with covid patients. I help in intubations of covid patients. I am in covid units intermittently. I have never tested positive. Maybe I've got it and it was so mild I never noticed, not sure. Maybe this gives you a little insight into reasons why some have not gotten vaccinated.