RPHS quitting due to vaccine mandate??

[M0df]

The mask requirement mainly stayed in place for healthcare facilities and one could argue because herd immunity was never achieved and vaccinated rate stagnated. If not wearing masks was a big selling point of getting vaccinated, then you would benefit from that everywhere else.

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[storyhill]

I stated that my main reason for agreeing to be vaccinated was because I didn't want to pass it on to others. Being told that we still had to wear masks at work because we could still spread to others, even after getting vaccinated, invalidated my reason. Initially that's what made me cancel my covid vaccine appointment.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

I am one of the anti mandate pharmacists. I was ready to quit at my hospital after mandate started here, as I knew another hospital that didn't have a mandate. I had a lot of reasons for not wanting to get the vaccine. I was actually signed up to get it early with the first wave of availability and cancelled my appointment. The thing that made me cancel my appointment was I was told that we would still be required to wear masks at work because you can still spread the virus even if fully vaccinated. Well this was my only reason I did want to get it. So once that was off the table, I didn't have a reason to get it. Because I felt I was in such a low risk category ( healthy, no chronic conditions) I just don't feel a need to get it. I wear a mask all the time at work. My current hospital accepted my religious obejection. Another hospital a few hours away wanted me to work some prn shifts for them and they have a mandate. I told them that I am not vaccinated for Covid and they said they would accept my religious objection. I've been glad that my employer has at least respected this aspect of it but I don't like the mandate. The way that people treat non vaccinated people or talk about them is a big turn off to me and makes me want to be a part of the "looked down upon" and not want to not get it. I am not much of a conformist if I don't think it's important. I work among covid positive patients everyday. I do codes with covid patients. I help in intubations of covid patients. I am in covid units intermittently. I have never tested positive. Maybe I've got it and it was so mild I never noticed, not sure. Maybe this gives you a little insight into reasons why some have not gotten vaccinated.

Serious question: Can you expand on how getting a vaccine to not wear a mask doesn't go against your religious beliefs, but getting a vaccine and still having to wear a mask does?

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Maybe this gives you a little insight into reasons why some have not gotten vaccinated.

"Lots of reasons" followed by essentially no reason. The only thing I got from your post was that you consider yourself low risk for developing severe covid. Which is probably true but you're at even lower risk for having severe reactions from the vaccine.

Also you were willing to get the vaccine until you found out that you'd still have to mask then suddenly had a religious objection? That makes me glad that my state doesn't allow for healthcare workers to claim religious exemptions.

The vaccine is safe and effective, the only real reason you cited for not getting it is that you're a non conformist.

 

[M0df]

Just curious. Do you wear a mask in public places outside of work?

 

[storyhill]

I thought I clarified this in my follow up post but let me try again. Because I was told we could still pass it on to others even after getting the vaccine is initially why I didn't get vaccinated. My reason to initially get vaccinated was to protect others not so I didn't have to wear a mask.

 

[storyhill]

I stated that my main reason for agreeing to be vaccinated was because I didn't want to pass it on to others, not so I don't have to wear a mask.

 

[storyhill]

Serious question: Can you expand on how getting a vaccine to not wear a mask doesn't go against your religious beliefs, but getting a vaccine and still having to wear a mask does?

Again not needing to wear a mask was not part of my motivation.

 

[M0df]

Hate to say it but the unvaccinated rate in demographics group you are describing is kind of high, so I don't get non conformist stuff.

The other part is it sounds like you were looking for a perfect vaccine while now we are fighting for 30% benefit with boosters. 90-95% prevention and thus transmission reduction didn't cut it.

 

[storyhill]

The vaccine is safe and effective, the only real reason you cited for not getting it is that you're a non conformist.

I would agree with you on this, but a large eason I am a non conformist is my religious views

 

[Dred Pirate]

I am one of the anti mandate pharmacists. I was ready to quit at my hospital after mandate started here, as I knew another hospital that didn't have a mandate. I had a lot of reasons for not wanting to get the vaccine. I was actually signed up to get it early with the first wave of availability and cancelled my appointment. The thing that made me cancel my appointment was I was told that we would still be required to wear masks at work because you can still spread the virus even if fully vaccinated. Well this was my only reason I did want to get it. So once that was off the table, I didn't have a reason to get it. Because I felt I was in such a low risk category ( healthy, no chronic conditions) I just don't feel a need to get it. I wear a mask all the time at work. My current hospital accepted my religious obejection. Another hospital a few hours away wanted me to work some prn shifts for them and they have a mandate. I told them that I am not vaccinated for Covid and they said they would accept my religious objection. I've been glad that my employer has at least respected this aspect of it but I don't like the mandate. The way that people treat non vaccinated people or talk about them is a big turn off to me and makes me want to be a part of the "looked down upon" and not want to not get it. I am not much of a conformist if I don't think it's important. I work among covid positive patients everyday. I do codes with covid patients. I help in intubations of covid patients. I am in covid units intermittently. I have never tested positive. Maybe I've got it and it was so mild I never noticed, not sure. Maybe this gives you a little insight into reasons why some have not gotten vaccinated.

I am all for making life as difficult as possible for those that are unvaccinated.
What religion are you that you claim a religious objection?

 

[Dred Pirate]

Notice how the majority of hospitalizations and deaths are from unvaccinated patients? Many ICU doctors and nurses feel no sympathy for them anymore. All they had to do was get vaccinated.

this is so true - nobody will admit it publicly, but it is painfully true that people are so burnt out dealing with unvaccinated patients, that it is impossible to not have an unconscious bias.

 

[storyhill]

Hate to say it but the unvaccinated rate in demographics group you are describing is kind of high, so I don't get non conformist stuff.

I would say non conforming to the immediate context at work and against the heavy institutional push and media and government. Of course I am conforming in some aspects.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Again not needing to wear a mask was not part of my motivation.

What am I missing about wanting to understand your religious objection to getting the Vaccine that only came after discovering the vaccine doesn't reduce the risk of asymptomatic transmission and the combination of vaccination and masking currently best protects vulnerable populations in hospitals?

The thing that made me cancel my appointment was I was told that we would still be required to wear masks at work because you can still spread the virus even if fully vaccinated. Well this was my only reason I did want to get it. So once that was off the table, I didn't have a reason to get it. Because I felt I was in such a low risk category ( healthy, no chronic conditions) I just don't feel a need to get it. I wear a mask all the time at work. My current hospital accepted my religious obejection.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

I would agree with you on this, but a large eason I am a non conformist is my religious views

Paging @WVUPharm2007 for commentary...

 

[Dred Pirate]

What am I missing about wanting to understand your religious objection to getting the Vaccine that only came after discovering the vaccine doesn't reduce the risk of asymptomatic transmission and the combination of vaccination and masking currently best protects vulnerable populations in hospitals?

exactly - this is why I asked what religion- I am curious as top what religion allows you to get a vaccine only if it allows you to not wear a mask?

 

[storyhill]

I am all for making life as difficult as possible for those that are unvaccinated.
What religion are you that you claim a religious objection?

Hah. In my case this not effective. Bring it on mandate boy.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Hah. In my case this not effective. Bring it on mandate boy.

what is your religion?

 

[storyhill]

exactly - this is why I asked what religion- I am curious as top what religion allows you to get a vaccine only if it allows you to not wear a mask?

I don't think you are curious about that. It is not a genuine inquiry.

 

[storyhill]

what is your religion?

The correct one.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I would agree with you on this, but a large eason I am a non conformist is my religious views

Ah the old conforming to religious views because you are a non conformist.

I find it odd that you had no religious objection at first but now you do.

Still don't see the "lots of reasons" mentioned in your original post. To recap: you think you can still spread the virus even after vaccination (true, but likely to a lower extent than the unvaccinated), you have a religious objection (though didn't until you found out that you'd still have to wear a mask), and that you're a nonconformist (largely due to your religion?).

Consider me confused.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

The correct one.

Ah. I also worship Ra. May the sun shine upon you, disciple.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I don't think you are curious about that. It is not a genuine inquiry.

I am because I hear a lot of people claim "religious exemption" but their religion has no objection to vaccinations. I am curious why you are afraid to state it? I am Lutheran, I have no issue stating what religion I am - by you refusing to, it speaks volumes.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Ah. I also worship Ra. Man the sun shine upon you, disciple.

we all know odin in the one and only true god.

 

[storyhill]

Ah. I also worship Ra. Man the sun shine upon you, disciple.

I salute you!

 

[Rockinacoustic]

... Maybe this gives you a little insight into reasons why some have not gotten vaccinated.

This was the most underrated part of your post, @storyhill

 

[storyhill]

I am because I hear a lot of people claim "religious exemption" but their religion has no objection to vaccinations. I am curious why you are afraid to state it? I am Lutheran, I have no issue stating what religion I am - by you refusing to, it speaks volumes.

I said I have a religious objection not that my religion has an objection. Many in my religion have different convictions.

 

[owlegrad]

So you were signed up to get it, changed your mind, and now you have a religious objection?

That's a pretty convenient religion.

 

[storyhill]

This was the most underrated part of your post, @storyhill

I did not mean to expand on my many reasons but just my initial reasoning.

 

[storyhill]

Yes

So you were signed up to get it, changed your mind, and now you have a religious objection?

That's a pretty convenient religion.

It is a great religion. Thank you.

 

[owlegrad]

Ah I see my comment is quite late to the party. My bad, I didn't realize how many posts there were already.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Yes

It is a great religion. Thank you.

And the award for the lamest response goes to. Seriously man. Be a man and answer the question. I want to have a legit conversation on what religious aspect allows you to get a vaccine if you don’t have to wear a mask, but forbids it if you do. You sure are likely using religion as a scapegoat

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

@storyhill Can we get back to your "lots of reasons"?

So far I have: non conformist, and... Well that's it.

You posted here supposedly to offer insight but you don't really seem to want to answer legitimate questions about your motivations.

 

[storyhill]

@storyhill Can we get back to your "lots of reasons"?

So far I have: non conformist, and... Well that's it.

You posted here supposedly to offer insight but you don't really seem to want to answer legitimate questions about your motivations.

I am all for legitimate conversation. I get mostly belittling comments. I will say that initially I had competing religious convictions. 1. love your neighbor and 2. Honor your wife. I guess number 1 win out initially then after getting more information. Number 2 won out.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I am all for legitimate conversation. I get mostly belittling comments. I will say that initially I had competing religious convictions. 1. love your neighbor and 2. Honor your wife. I guess number 1 win out initially then after getting more information. Number 2 won out.

1. What does honor your wife have to do with a vaccine? 2. You refuse to say what religion. You want to discuss. But only answer in obtuse language.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I am all for legitimate conversation. I get mostly belittling comments. I will say that initially I had competing religious convictions. 1. love your neighbor and 2. Honor your wife. I guess number 1 win out initially then after getting more information. Number 2 won out.

Every answer you provide confuses me more than the last. For what it's worth, I read most of the comments as actually wanting to have a conversation but you do seem to be avoiding most questions about your stance.

How does 2 support not being vaccinated?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Y'all are letting a low effort troll get you with some half assed trollery.

 

[storyhill]

My wife was very concerned about me getting the vaccine, to the point of tears. I didn't agree with her fears about vaccine safety. I have convinced her to have our kids have most childhood vaccinations but I don't push it on her. She was very relieved when I told her I wouldn't get it.

 

[storyhill]

Some of my short answers have to do with me doing this while I am driving and some to do with antagonistic questions.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Y'all are letting a low effort troll get you with some half assed trollery.

Hey the forum has been pretty slow recently

 

[Dred Pirate]

My wife was very concerned about me getting the vaccine, to the point of tears. I didn't agree with her fears about vaccine safety. I have convinced her to have our kids have most childhood vaccinations but I don't push it on her. She was very relieved when I told her I wouldn't get it.

that is not a religious exemption - that is a personal decision.
I don't claim to know every religion, but I am probably more well versed than a majority of the country, but very few religions actually forbid vaccinations.
1. Christian Scientists - but then again, they wouldn't be a health care practitioner.
2. Dutch reform - although I don't know what scripture they use to make their claim.

You say your answers are short because you are driving, I have asked you twice - what is your religion? That requires a one word answer. You fail to answer because I suspect you are using it as an excuse. You would be better educating your wife on why her concerns are unfounded.

 

[storyhill]

that is not a religious exemption - that is a personal decision.
I don't claim to know every religion, but I am probably more well versed than a majority of the country, but very few religions actually forbid vaccinations.
1. Christian Scientists - but then again, they wouldn't be a health care practitioner.
2. Dutch reform - although I don't know what scripture they use to make their claim.

You say your answers are short because you are driving, I have asked you twice - what is your religion? That requires a one word answer. You fail to answer because I suspect you are using it as an excuse. You would be better educating your wife on why her concerns are unfounded.

I think religion is a personal decision. He who has ears let him hear.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I think religion is a personal decision. He who has ears let him hear.

I am done talking to you since you fail to answer a simple question - go back to worshiping at the throne of whatever quack job you do with your bat **** crazy wife. If I was still in management, I would have enjoyed firing people like this.

And back to the OP - And for those that got fired for failing to get the vaccine - good riddance, you are at least helping with the over saturation of pharmacists.

 

[storyhill]

I am done talking to you since you fail to answer a simple question - go back to worshiping at the throne of whatever quack job you do with your bat **** crazy wife. If I was still in management, I would have enjoyed firing people like this.

And back to the OP - And for those that got fired for failing to get the vaccine - good riddance, you are at least helping with the over saturation of pharmacists.

No ill will to you. Go in peace. My wife is thee best.

 

[Bubba98]

I am done talking to you since you fail to answer a simple question - go back to worshiping at the throne of whatever quack job you do with your bat **** crazy wife. If I was still in management, I would have enjoyed firing people like this.

And back to the OP - And for those that got fired for failing to get the vaccine - good riddance, you are at least helping with the over saturation of pharmacists.

So you like firing people based on their religion?

Mask/COVID injection mandates, lockdowns are all idiotic and do not work. The COVID injections were only about reducing severe disease. The idea that it would stop infection and transmission was a sell that I can't believe healthcare professionals fell for. Pfizer thanks you for that. It saved them billions in false claim lawsuits. Another false claim was unvaccinated were filling up hospitals. When this BS stat came out in the summer it failed to mention that people who had been admitted weeks or even months ago for something unrelated to COVID were testing positive. Israel had already proven that triple jabbed patients were still being hospitalized.

No direction was given to hospitals on how to deal with positive patients. They made it up as they went along. No drug regimen was offered to patients to keep them out of hospitals while we waited for vaccines. It might have even been suppressed. When the injections came out young healthy people jumped at the chance to post on Facebook how they were jabbed and saving lives meanwhile the elderly in other parts of the country were having trouble finding it in stock. We had healthcare professionals openly stating that we shouldn't care for the "anti-vaxers". They all should lose their licenses.

People were arrested for surfing, told which way to walk down the grocery aisle, lost their business or job, lost a year of proper education, had their brain swabbed for a test that is not diagnostic for anything. And now we have Omicron. The end where we all should finally be on the same page but instead we are acting like vindictive little *** and pressuring other people's kids.

There will be blowback. Did you aspirate on all the injections you gave or oversaw? That is shaping up to be liability scapegoat. Convince a hesitant parent who's child had a side effect? Refuse to prescribe medication to a sick patient who later was hospitalized or died? Fire an employee who refused who then lawyers up and convinces a jury that this whole thing was indeed experimental? It still is not fully FDA approved. All of this for a disease that those under 50 with no co-morbidities had at most a 0.26% chance of severe disease which we knew by the summer of 2020.

 

[Dred Pirate]

So you like firing people based on their religion?

Mask/COVID injection mandates, lockdowns are all idiotic and do not work. The COVID injections were only about reducing severe disease. The idea that it would stop infection and transmission was a sell that I can't believe healthcare professionals fell for. Pfizer thanks you for that. It saved them billions in false claim lawsuits. Another false claim was unvaccinated were filling up hospitals. When this BS stat came out in the summer it failed to mention that people who had been admitted weeks or even months ago for something unrelated to COVID were testing positive. Israel had already proven that triple jabbed patients were still being hospitalized.

No direction was given to hospitals on how to deal with positive patients. They made it up as they went along. No drug regimen was offered to patients to keep them out of hospitals while we waited for vaccines. It might have even been suppressed. When the injections came out young healthy people jumped at the chance to post on Facebook how they were jabbed and saving lives meanwhile the elderly in other parts of the country were having trouble finding it in stock. We had healthcare professionals openly stating that we shouldn't care for the "anti-vaxers". They all should lose their licenses.

People were arrested for surfing, told which way to walk down the grocery aisle, lost their business or job, lost a year of proper education, had their brain swabbed for a test that is not diagnostic for anything. And now we have Omicron. The end where we all should finally be on the same page but instead we are acting like vindictive little *** and pressuring other people's kids.

There will be blowback. Did you aspirate on all the injections you gave or oversaw? That is shaping up to be liability scapegoat. Convince a hesitant parent who's child had a side effect? Refuse to prescribe medication to a sick patient who later was hospitalized or died? Fire an employee who refused who then lawyers up and convinces a jury that this whole thing was indeed experimental? It still is not fully FDA approved. All of this for a disease that those under 50 with no co-morbidities had at most a 0.26% chance of severe disease which we knew by the summer of 2020.

I will answer the questions related to me.
1. I don't give injections so aspiration has nothing to do with me.
2. I would never fire people based on their religion. I would fire people that make up BS excuses as to why they have a religious exemption when they don't. If you are a card carrying christian scientist who believes you will go to hell if you get a vaccine, you can still be employed - but you are going to have to go through extra hoops.
3. I care for ani-vaxxers all the time - it is a slippery slope to not care for someone based on lifestyle choices. It pisses me off and puts myself at risk, but I would never lock the door and not let them in. I fully support healthcare for all.
4. Pfizer vaccine is fully FDA approved for adults - which unless your hospital employs children - is what we are talking about.
5. Quote a post of mine where I even mentioned lockdowns?
6. Your brain was never swabbed - slight exaggeration? You do realize when you do so, people will take the rest of your post as an exaggeration as well? And how is the nasopharyngeal swab not diagnositic for anything?
7. Treatments are offered for pt's who are positive to keep out of the hospital - there have been literally 100's of studies - the thing is, most of the medications haven't shown a benefit - or a very small one.
8. Yes - vaccinated pt's are still being hospitalized, but at lower rates and less severity. At my hospital (in an county with 73% fully vaccinated and >95% received one dose). Currently 88% of ICU COVID patients are unvacccinated, and 82% of all hospitalized covid patients are unvaccinated. - please explain that?

 

[Bubba98]

I will answer the questions related to me.
1. I don't give injections so aspiration has nothing to do with me.
2. I would never fire people based on their religion. I would fire people that make up BS excuses as to why they have a religious exemption when they don't. If you are a card carrying christian scientist who believes you will go to hell if you get a vaccine, you can still be employed - but you are going to have to go through extra hoops.
3. I care for ani-vaxxers all the time - it is a slippery slope to not care for someone based on lifestyle choices. It pisses me off and puts myself at risk, but I would never lock the door and not let them in. I fully support healthcare for all.
4. Pfizer vaccine is fully FDA approved for adults - which unless your hospital employs children - is what we are talking about.
5. Quote a post of mine where I even mentioned lockdowns?
6. Your brain was never swabbed - slight exaggeration? You do realize when you do so, people will take the rest of your post as an exaggeration as well? And how is the nasopharyngeal swab not diagnositic for anything?
7. Treatments are offered for pt's who are positive to keep out of the hospital - there have been literally 100's of studies - the thing is, most of the medications haven't shown a benefit - or a very small one.
8. Yes - vaccinated pt's are still being hospitalized, but at lower rates and less severity. At my hospital (in an county with 73% fully vaccinated and >95% received one dose). Currently 88% of ICU COVID patients are unvacccinated, and 82% of all hospitalized covid patients are unvaccinated. - please explain that?

I quoted you because I found your last response disturbing and a representation of what this debate has devolved into. As to "your" hospital what and when were they admitted? Is it possible a decision was made not to immunize since they are immunocompromised?

 

[mustang sally]

800,000+ Americans dead is a “cold virus”? You can’t be serious. Or well informed.

Right? Can't tell you how many unvaccinated males in their 40s-60s I have seen pass away (amongst others of course, it just seems like they get hit hardest). Sad.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I quoted you because I found your last response disturbing and a representation of what this debate has devolved into. As to "your" hospital what and when were they admitted? Is it possible a decision was made not to immunize since they are immunocompromised?

by quoting me, you were accusing me of many things, I made a rebuttal list that you have largely ignored.
You sort of gave a mea culpa that answers #1 and #5.

Not sure why "your" is in paranthesis when talking about my place of employment? You think I am faking a hospital I work at or something?
I will address your points in bullet points once again.
#1. These are live numbers from patients currently hospitalized, do I know exact dates? Of course not, but I could look them up. Not sure what point you are trying to make.
#2. A decision made to not immunize because of being immunocompromised? I guess that is possible, but every patient I have taken care of that was Covid+ and immunocompromised was vaccinated because they realized the risks - ironically the vast majority of the vaccinated patients in the ICU are immunocompramised. There are very few patients that medically cannot get a Covid vaccine - so that argument also simply does not make sense. A friend of mine has CLL. After two doses of pfizer he had exactly 0 antibodies. After a full dose of Moderna he has 8 (which is incredibly small). These are they patients that are most at risk because of those around them that do not get vaccinated.
#3. How was my respond distrubing? Because I feel people should get fired for not following company policy? People generally fire themselves by the decisions they make - this guy was making up a BS "religious exemption" when one simply doesn't exist - he is being selfish in his decision making. Was I annoyed because I fell into his trolling - yes, he claims relgious exemption, but is afraid to state his religion because he realizes it is a unfounded claim

 

[Dred Pirate]

Right? Can't tell you how many unvaccinated males in their 40s-60s I have seen pass away (amongst others of course, it just seems like they get hit hardest). Sad.

Unfortunately there are some people who just don't understand science, I expect that from some non-health care educated person who watches too much cable news- but it shouldn't come someone who is actually educated in the field. You are right with the Delta surge and how it effected that age group - I just wonder if that is, for lack of better terminology, the initial wave already wipped out the others that were most susceptible?