Salary poll to help prospects and current pod students

[Treaty of Dorsi]

I have seen many threads about salary and the overall consensus is ask podiatrists near you or check MGMA. This forum has been great and has helped me in making my decision to pursue podiatry. However, given the pandemic, it will be difficult to 'ask a podiatrist near you' and so I figured a poll might help prospective students get an idea of the salary range while also making it convenient for all of you busy practicing podiatrists to be able to share. I am sure all of us youngins will greatly appreciate it.

The hope is to have ONLY Practicing Podiatrists answer this poll with their BASE salary.

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[JewOnThis]

A lot of podiatry associates are percentage based. And most of them make 75k-120k a year in private practice .

 

[air bud]

Yeah it just doesn't work this way, sorry.

Hospital based may have a salary of 225k with maybe 30k bonus realistically available via RVUs whereas a PP may have 100k base but 100k bonus realistic based on bonuses. It's apples and oranges. That's why all these surveys and questions are dumb. There is no universal number. It's not like the NBA where everyone plays basketball and player A gets X salary and player B gets Y salary.

 

[air bud]

If you want to make a 2 polls one for RVU based (Hospital/MSG) and one for collections (PP) that's another thing.

 

[air bud]

Another often discounted is the tax benefits of ownership. When we tell you to go into PP on your own, it's not just so that you get 100 percent of collections instead of 33%. It's so you can get X deduction and Y deduction. That is where the money is. It's being able to put 55k into your 401k as an owner instead of 19k as an employee. It's being able to write of health insurance premiums as a business expense. It's paying yourself a salary then the rest as a distribution to avoid social security taxes (reasonable salary....) It's being able to write off mileage etc. Being a W2 sucks for taxes. Making 300k as a PP owner>>>>>>>>>W2 300k salary.


tldr read white coat investor.

 

[Treaty of Dorsi]

Thank you for the clarification Airbud!

 

[dtrack22]

Not to mention base salary is not total compensation. I’ve never heard of an associate contract that guarantees you more than $120k in your first year. Which wouldn’t be awful all by itself, assuming production incentives were obtainable and equitable.

Unfortunately, most associate jobs working for another podiatrist don’t net you significantly more $ than your base. Meaning, bonus structures are often times impossible to hit, or inequitable. You might only ever be able to realistically bonus $50k. $100k base salary would be fine if you could realistically still make $200-250k in gross pay. Few practices and fewer contracts are set up for you to do that when you work for another podiatrist.

 

[G0dFather]

It's being able to put 55k into your 401k as an owner instead of 19k as an employee. It's being able to write of health insurance premiums as a business expense.

So i went through this .. some misconceptions id like to clarify here...

The first one is correct only if you and your wife work the office then you can setup a solo 401k and contribute six figures yearly ... if you have another employee after that then youd have to go 401k safe harbor, so youd be in the same boat with the 19k max etcc... unless you ratchet up the 4% contribution to whatever X% you want but then you risk your other employees electing for that same percentage like you would and then youd have to contribute to them the same way you would to yourself. ( Now you can set up a defined pension plan to still contribute six figures but youd have to take into account the age of your employees etc.., but still that the beauty of business, very easily possible to never have to pay business tax and easily maximize every dollar.)

the second one... you can write off the ins premium but it drops from your business and counts on your end like income ( kind of sort of like the scorp thing you mentioned) ... so its not a full on deduction... but yes! I agree with everything else and there is way more than he didnt mention that you could LEGALY pull off...PP podiatry is truly the holy grail, you can severely minimize your biggest expense in this country ,,, TAXES!..... now if you live like a resident while your bringing in some serious cash you will easily be "FIREd " in less than a decade and not have to worry about all this BS ins stuff etc..

 

[619]

Regardless of the result of the survey, It is an open secret that most (or all) of the associate jobs at a podiatry practice pay a base of between $85k - $110K (with little or no benefits) depending on location and between 20% to 30% bonus structure after 3x base. The hospital and multi speciality jobs pay more than twice that. Most of the posters that took the survey in this forum work with hospital and multi speciality group.
Therefore, the result of the survey is not representative of the whole podiatry profession.

 

[Phnxrider]

Regardless of the result of the survey, It is an open secret that most (or all) of the associate jobs at a podiatry practice pay a base of between $85k - $110K (with little or no benefits) depending on location and between 20% to 30% bonus structure after 3x base. The hospital and multi speciality jobs pay more than twice that. Most of the posters that took the survey in this forum work with hospital and multi speciality group.
Therefore, the result of the survey is not representative of the whole podiatry profession.

How difficult is it as a new grad to get a hospital or multispecialty group job?

 

[619]

How difficult is it as a new grad to get a hospital or multispecialty group job?

I would not use the word "difficult" as nothing in life is difficult, once you have the right preparation and mental attitude. However, I would say it is competitive, many few openings and too many applicants and most of the jobs in a hospital or multi-specialty groups are not even posted online, you get it through cold calling, personal connection, referral or word of mouth. This is regardless of the residency program or training you had. It is all about YOU as a person.

Most (>90%) new graduates will start out in private podiatry practice as an associate starting with a base salary of $85 - $110 with 20% - 30% bonus after 3x collection. with little or no benefits. Most won't hit the bonus threshold in the first year as you start out slow with 5-8 patients a day.

That's the cold truth in 2020. And NO! this is not because of Covid-19 pandemic. This is how it has been for the past 10 years or more.

However, expect income will go up going into 2nd and 3rd year in practice once you begin to hit the bonus.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Most (>90%) new graduates will start out in private podiatry practice as an associate starting with a base salary of $85 - $110 with 20% - 30% bonus after 3x collection. with little or no benefits.

Can you back that up?

 

[Pronation]

How difficult is it as a new grad to get a hospital or multispecialty group job?

It's very competitive. My estimate is that approximately 50 people apply for every publicly posted hospital/MSG job. My best guess is that you'll have a success rate of 5% cold calling hospitals or MSG groups.

After you finish your highly regarded surgical fellowship doing total ankle replacements, you can expect to make $100k as an associate/sucker working for another private practice podiatrist clipping crusty toenails.

 

[DYK343]

After you finish your highly regarded surgical fellowship doing total ankle replacements, you can expect to make $100k as an associate/sucker working for another private practice podiatrist clipping crusty toenails.

My friends that graduated fellowship, which is quite a few, is not sitting around all day clipping crusty toenails.

 

[heybrother]

Correct - they are not clipping them. They are debriding them.

I kid. I kid.

I think hospital jobs receive more applications than that. I once interviewed for a private practice job that didn't list anything about salary (the guy told me I'd need to fill my own schedule in the beginning by doing house calls) and didn't really list location. The guy told me he'd receive basically 100 applications in the span of like a week. I did a clerkship at a semi-well known place and I recall their PD saying that he was told by some local hospital admins that every podiatry job had 100+ applications and that the hospital felt that gave them a lot of information about the profession.

 

[619]

Can you back that up?

Can I back it up with a level 1 double blind study? No

 

[Shiyuan]

Can you back that up?

I agree that offers like that are the norm. Quite sad. PAs, NPs and nurse anesthetists go thru less schooling, acrue less debt... and usually make more than new pods (private practice).

 

[air bud]

I know a job with a large multi-specialty group in a desirable City that had 75 applicants in about 3 or 4 days and then they just shut off applicants cuz they were so overwhelmed and figured they could get somebody within those 75. It was then narrowed down to 15 people that they had phone calls with by the in house recruiter. That was the narrow down to seven that the actual podiatrist talked to. It was then narrow down to three people that interviewed at the location before hiring one person.

 

[air bud]

The first thing you need to do is be lucky. You need to find out about the right job at the right time. After that then you just have to have a good personality and that's 90% of getting that desirable job. People are going to assume you know what you're doing and are well-trained. So personality and luck, mostly luck

my current Hospital job that pays me a nice guaranteed salary, a hundred thousand student loan payback as well as a signing bonus that was equal to MDS ( a high one too) was purely because of luck. I sat down next to somebody had an acfas meeting he gave me a hot tip on a possible job. I skipped afternoon lectures, went straight home and cold called the CEO. It didn't work out but he got promoted and he liked me and got me a job at another hospital. Right place right time good personality ( believe it or not ...). There was never any questions about my training other than what do I feel comfortable doing. Job was never open to anybody else was never posted.

With that, make your own luck.

 

[619]

I know a job with a large multi-specialty group in a desirable City that had 75 applicants in about 3 or 4 days and then they just shut off applicants cuz they were so overwhelmed and figured they could get somebody within those 75. It was then narrowed down to 15 people that they had phone calls with by the in house recruiter. That was the narrow down to seven that the actual podiatrist talked to. It was then narrow down to three people that interviewed at the location before hiring one person.

That's sad and not surprising in general for Podiatry. That is why I said >90% of graduates will start out in private practice with a base salary of $85K - $110K with 20% - 30% bonus after 3x collection, with little or no benefits. A PA/NP makes the same or even better with benefits (401K, health insurance etc).

 

[deleted1061086]

I think some posted multispecialty or hospital jobs may receive hundreds of applicants depending on the location. It seems like most of those hiring orthopedic foot and ankle surgeons have caught onto the cold calling strategy, they tend to list “podiatrists are not eligible for this position.” I’ve noticed that becoming commonplace in those postings within the last 2-3 years. The interesting twist is these hospital positions will become more popular in the coming years as a well-trained pod can be incredibly profitable for the organization in the right setting. However, that will happen over time and the demand for these positions will not equal the thirst for them by graduating residents.

Also, more private practices are being absorbed by these groups. Hospitals seem to be going the route of absorbing existing practices, and their patients, rather than hiring a new person to build a practice.

Also you may see more non-surgical positions with these types of groups. Non-surgical positions can capture the demand for palliative podiatry and also serve as referral sources for the orthopedic surgeon or surgical podiatrist who got there first. If you want to be non-op, I think you have a far better chance of finding these types of positions. Good pay, very low stress, and happy patients. There are positives to this type of practice for some people, and it’s easier to get in the door.

 

[air bud]

I think some posted multispecialty or hospital jobs may receive hundreds of applicants depending on the location. It seems like most of those hiring orthopedic foot and ankle surgeons have caught onto the cold calling strategy, they tend to list “podiatrists are not eligible for this position.” I’ve noticed that becoming commonplace in those postings within the last 2-3 years. The interesting twist is these hospital positions will become more popular in the coming years as a well-trained pod can be incredibly profitable for the organization in the right setting. However, that will happen over time and the demand for these positions will not equal the thirst for them by graduating residents.

Also, more private practices are being absorbed by these groups. Hospitals seem to be going the route of absorbing existing practices, and their patients, rather than hiring a new person to build a practice.

Also you may see more non-surgical positions with these types of groups. Non-surgical positions can capture the demand for palliative podiatry and also serve as referral sources for the orthopedic surgeon or surgical podiatrist who got there first. If you want to be non-op, I think you have a far better chance of finding these types of positions. Good pay, very low stress, and happy patients. There are positives to this type of practice for some people, and it’s easier to get in the door.

On the last note. I have a friend who was in a crappy Midwest associate job. 300k in debt. Maybe making 180 killing himself and being unhappy as an associate. Cold called a Hospital in the mountain west that had existing pod. They were open to hiring non surgical pod. Two existing guys. Job not posted. 270 base and some loans paid back. He said screw it let's see what happens. When he started, he convinced one of the guys to let him have all his inpatient stuff so was still doing amps. Now a year later, he will make about 350 or so his first year. And one of the guys just left. So now he is going to start doing elective stuff again. You never know with these non op jobs. Never say never.


The funny part is if they hire another person the other guy said he wants restrictions on them again...

 

[air bud]

Can you back that up?

This is Podiatry bro we don't need evidence to back us up. Why start now?

 

[DexterMorganSK]

This is Podiatry bro we don't need evidence to back us up. Why start now?

gotta start somewhere, otherwise we'll just be left with opinions and generalizations

 

[air bud]

gotta start somewhere, otherwise we'll just be left with opinions and generalizations

Lol. Wait until you are an attending and you forget either intentionally or unintentionally what you learned in residency.

 

[josebiwasabi]

I had a friend who did a fellowship, wanted to practice back home in FL. Interviewed with a PP and the owner told him 75k base salary with the worst bonus structure that I have ever heard. He actually had a maximum bonus at 50k, so the most he would ever take home is 125k. Needless to say he ran away from that practice as quickly as possible.

Ultimately he got a hospital job, although in a different state.

 

[G0dFather]

The first thing you need to do is be lucky. You need to find out about the right job at the right time.

It hard to tell someone after all that debt and almost a decade of work that this is what they have to look forward to. The national organizations really need to step up.

 

[air bud]

It hard to tell someone after all that debt and almost a decade of work that this is what they have to look forward to. The national organizations really need to step up.

Yup

 

[619]

Overall, not to discourage any incoming Podiatrist about the low pay. Podiatrist is still a great career field. The key to wealth is opening your own private practice. Dentists still do that. Opening your own PP even pays better than working for a hospital or multi-specialty group in the long run.

Work as an associate for another podiatrist for 2-3 years after graduation making crappy pay however the real pay is the knowledge you gain from seeing how to run a practice in real time then lunch out on your own.

 

[shadesofgrey]

I think it's close to a breaking point where we should discourage students from becoming podiatrist. My alma mater just sent an email asking me to contribute to their scholarship fund because by their own estimate the 4 year cost was 315k, without interest or undergraduate loans included. I had a few students shadow me this summer and the cost was one of the biggest things I talked about. If you have a lot of undergraduate loans already you need to think long and hard before pulling the trigger on pod school.

 

[G0dFather]

Overall, not to discourage any incoming Podiatrist about the low pay. Podiatrist is still a great career field. The key to wealth is opening your own private practice. Dentists still do that. Opening your own PP even pays better than working for a hospital or multi-specialty group in the long run.

Work as an associate for another podiatrist for 2-3 years after graduation making crappy pay however the real pay is the knowledge you gain from seeing how to run a practice in real time then lunch out on your own.

Yes i agree with all of this .... however you really dont need to burn 2-3 years unless you need the finances .. in 3-6 months if you pay attention and have a willing teacher/boss you will learn all this is to know about pod and be ready to go out on your own

 

[shadesofgrey]

Can you back that up?

There are salary surveys available. Quite a bit of variance between the surveys, but in general the numbers are south of where they should be for docs with 3 years of residency.

What I think would be enlightening is to briefly search for pod jobs. You will find an abundance of home care jobs and a fair amount of associate pod jobs. What you won't find are very many hospital or MS jobs. Go look at the largest hospital systems or physician recruitment websites. Probably won't find more than 3 jobs. If you do find the motherlode of hospital jobs send me the link so I can leave my ****ty associate job.

 

[619]

Yes i agree with all of this .... however you really don't need to burn 2-3 years unless you need the finances .. in 3-6 months if you pay attention and have a willing teacher/boss you will learn all this is to know about pod and be ready to go out on your own

I agree with you. You can learn it all within 6 months and be ready to be on your own but you won't find a willing teacher/boss to guide you through it (except if you do a practice management fellowship). I know this tread is against podiatry fellowship but in my opinion, the only advantage of a fellowship (for someone wanting to go solo) is you won't have a non-compete if you want to open shop next door or in the same city.

Nobody is going to hire an associate to train him/her to be his/her own boss. The goal is to keep you as an associate for as long as possible

Furthermore, as a new associate, it takes about 3-6 months to get all your private insurance credentialing done and another 6 months for your schedule to build up. So a year is gone.

 

[Pronation]

If you do find the motherlode of hospital jobs send me the link so I can leave my ****ty associate job.

haha. This line right here is the only thing pre pods need to read when the slimy pod schools are trying to get them to enroll.

 

[underwood]

Not so encouraging for us current residents. If PP is inevitable, what can we do to help ourselves attain decent associate positions? They all can’t be terrible!?

 

[PatchAdamsFan]

Not so encouraging for us current residents. If PP is inevitable, what can we do to help ourselves attain decent associate positions? They all can’t be terrible!?

Private practice isn't inevitable, but as others have stated it is still where the majority of graduates (and fellowship grads) go. Yes, the ~80-120k base salaries are accurate for the most part, but there are many variables that go into each position. As an anecdote, the owner of my practice is a few years out of residency themselves, we'll be doing TARs together, I have a full patient schedule one month out, perfect location (for me), and partnership if I decide to stay. These were a few things that were important for me personally, and yes I realize that not many practices will check off all your boxes. If you choose the PP route, you need to prioritize what is important for you whether it be location, caseload, business potential, partnership, etc. There are great positions out there - for PP positions contacting resident/school alumni and medical reps worked best for me. If you don't get what you want, stick around for the year and open up shop next year.

 

[dtrack22]

Furthermore, as a new associate, it takes about 3-6 months to get all your private insurance credentialing done and another 6 months for your schedule to build up. So a year is gone.

I’d rather make $100k and do less work than a practice management fellowship for $60k.

The only thing you have to pay attention to, as you mentioned, is the non compete. But if you’re set on opening up your own clinic in whatever city you want to live in, then I’d find the highest paying associate job I could and treat it like a fellowship. Learn everything you can, get paid $100-120k, all the while work on your own business in your free time. And make sure it’s not in the same town you want to end up in so you don’t have to worry about a non compete.

 

[air bud]

I can't believe I am saying this given my thinking 2 years ago...but if you are going to / not able to work for a MSG/ Ortho/Hospital, them your goal HAS to be own thing. Now sometimes it may not make sense to reinvent the wheel and some type of partnership may be necessary, but you have to have the mindset of ownership. The sooner the better. Take the lumps and kicks in the teeth and get it over with. All while keeping actual debt low or you don't need a device that advertises on PM news.

 

[619]

And make sure it’s not in the same town you want to end up in so you don’t have to worry about a non compete.

That right there is the key. The non-compete clause is what catches a lot of fresh grads. The dream of " I want to return home" to get an associate job after residency.

It is also not surprising that a lot of fellowships in a podiatry practice group always hire the fellow into the same practice right after fellowship. They don't want you to return and open shop next door.

 

[619]

I can't believe I am saying this given my thinking 2 years ago...but if you are going to / not able to work for a MSG/ Ortho/Hospital, them your goal HAS to be own thing. Now sometimes it may not make sense to reinvent the wheel and some type of partnership may be necessary, but you have to have the mindset of ownership. The sooner the better. Take the lumps and kicks in the teeth and get it over with. All while keeping actual debt low or you don't need a device that advertises on PM news.

You are right. With all the doom and gloom about the end of private practice with changes in health insurance. I wonder why every year, all the private practices are still hiring new grads year after year. This is because there is still a lot of money to be made in private practice even if you open a new practice.

Furthermore, Not to go into politics, but with the next election, whoever wins, the health care system won't change that much. It will still be about the same. The last major change in healthcare was obamacare which they say would kill private practice. Some died but most thrived. That is life.

There is even good news with Medicare consolidating 99202-99204 into a single code starting January 2021. Podiatry as a profession comes out ahead compared to other specialties that charge a lot of 99204, those will be the losers.

 

[heybrother]

The consolidation got canned. They are changing the RVU values for visits.
The coding of visits in the future will supposedly just take into account medical decision making and not be influenced by the level of documentation of HPI and PE. Time can still be used but the time periods to hit a higher level visit are increasing.

I haven't looked in awhile, but these were what I dug out of the documents previously. These could be proposals

• 99202: 0.93 (2019: same)
• 99203: 1.6 (2019: 1.42)
• 99204: 2.6 (2019: 2.43)
• 99205: 3.5 (2019: 3.17)
• 99211: 0.18 (2019: same)
• 99212: 0.7 (2019: 0.48)
• 99213: 1.3 (2019: 0.97)
• 99214: 1.92 (2019: 1.5)
• 99215: 2.8 (2019: 2.11).

 

[air bud]

The consolidation got canned. They are changing the RVU values for visits.
The coding of visits in the future will supposedly just take into account medical decision making and not be influenced by the level of documentation of HPI and PE. Time can still be used but the time periods to hit a higher level visit are increasing.

I haven't looked in awhile, but these were what I dug out of the documents previously. These could be proposals

• 99202: 0.93 (2019: same)
• 99203: 1.6 (2019: 1.42)
• 99204: 2.6 (2019: 2.43)
• 99205: 3.5 (2019: 3.17)
• 99211: 0.18 (2019: same)
• 99212: 0.7 (2019: 0.48)
• 99213: 1.3 (2019: 0.97)
• 99214: 1.92 (2019: 1.5)
• 99215: 2.8 (2019: 2.11).

Getting rid of PE is awesome. And the time thing won't be all bad news as you now are able to include time reviewing past notes, other docs charts etc. No PE makes telehealth much easier. Honestly if I have an outreach clinic 2 hours away, I can make a diagnosis of plantar fasciitis without touching someone. At least not hurting them. Teach a nurse at the facility where patients comes into ( rural health clinic, they will love you since they get to charge a facility fee) where to poke. Tell patient to stretch, get some powersteps not go barefoot etc. I will be there in 2 weeks and if not better do steroid injection. Boom you just did a level 3 NP and now when you go to that outreach clinic in 2 weeks you only have to spend 15 mins with patient instead of 30.

And to go back to last point. Honestly Hospital work isn't all it's cracked up to be....some of the lures of PP are really appealing.

 

[619]

some of the lures of PP are really appealing

Which part is appealing? opening up and owning a PP or working as an associate

 

[air bud]

Which part is appealing? opening up and owning a PP or working as an associate

Owning. Being your own boss. Master of your own destiny...

Getting screwed by the system instead of another podiatrist

 

[JewOnThis]

Overall, not to discourage any incoming Podiatrist about the low pay. Podiatrist is still a great career field. The key to wealth is opening your own private practice. Dentists still do that. Opening your own PP even pays better than working for a hospital or multi-specialty group in the long run.

Work as an associate for another podiatrist for 2-3 years after graduation making crappy pay however the real pay is the knowledge you gain from seeing how to run a practice in real time then lunch out on your own.

I strongly disagree with ‘the key to wealth is opening your own private practice” . if someone would have said that 15-20 years ago, I think most would agree. Also, you can’t compare podiatry to dentistry. it’s not apple to apple In terms of reimbursement rates etc.

I have worked in private practice for many years and my most of coworkers ran PP for 15 or so years. i can tell you all of us make much more now in MSG than in PP. the only real pro I see in PP is having your own hours assuming you are your own boss. That’s really it.

 

[619]

I strongly disagree with ‘the key to wealth is opening your own private practice” . if someone would have said that 15-20 years ago, I think most would agree. Also, you can’t compare podiatry to dentistry. it’s not apple to apple In terms of reimbursement rates etc.

I have worked in private practice for many years and my most of coworkers ran PP for 15 or so years. i can tell you all of us make much more now in MSG than in PP. the only real pro I see in PP is having your own hours assuming you are your own boss. That’s really it.

There are many benefits in owning your own business than being a W2 employee. Making $250k take home pay as a PP owner is far beneficial than making $250K or even $300K as a W2 employee.

As we know, it is not how much you make but how much you keep. You can keep more of your income (through tax shelters) if you own your PP compared to if you are a W2 employee with an MSG or hospital group.

So I will stand by a my statement that in the long run, over a 30 or 40 years career, "the key to wealth is opening your own private practice” i.e owning your own business.

Disclaimer: This only works if you run a successful and profitable podiatry practice (business).

 

[JewOnThis]

There are many benefits in owning your own business than being a W2 employee. Making $250k take home pay as a PP owner is far beneficial than making $250K or even $300K as a W2 employee.

As we know, it is not how much you make but how much you keep. You can keep more of your income (through tax shelters) if you own your PP compared to if you are a W2 employee with an MSG or hospital group.

So I will stand by a my statement that in the long run, over a 30 or 40 years career, "the key to wealth is opening your own private practice” i.e owning your own business.

Disclaimer: This only works if you run a successful and profitable podiatry practice (business).

I get what you are saying. “Ideally“ it sounds great. “Ideally“ every pod should be making 200k+.

Fact check #1, I know of more than 15 PP owners that either joined an ortho group, hospital, or MSG over the past year or so. Some of these people are Residency directors or people who lecture annually.

Fact check #2, if owning PP is key the to wealth, why are there so many interests in joining hospital, MSG, and orthopedic groups?

I don’t want to say too much to give away my identity, but realistically a lot of newer pods end up owning PP because they have been denied or rejected By hospitals, msgs, and orthopedic groups

 

[619]

I get what you are saying. “Ideally“ it sounds great. “Ideally“ every pod should be making 200k+.

Fact check #1, I know of more than 15 PP owners that either joined an ortho group, hospital, or MSG over the past year or so. Some of these people are Residency directors or people who lecture annually.

Fact check #2, if owning PP is key the to wealth, why are there so many interests in joining hospital, MSG, and orthopedic groups?

I don’t want to say too much to give away my identity, but realistically a lot of newer pods end up owning PP because they have been denied or rejected By hospitals, msgs, and orthopedic groups

The owners that either joined an ortho group, hospital, or MSG over the past year or so, made a business decision based on their situation and the city they were in. There is nothing with that. But it does not mean that across the country, working for an ortho group, hospital, or MSG is the best option. Most times, owning your own business is way better due to the tax advantages, picking your hours, being your own boss, not worried about getting fired, potential for growth etc.

I would rephrase my key to wealth by saying there are many different working ways to build wealth (except being an associate forever). Owning a PP is still a very viable option

 

[G0dFather]

It's very competitive. My estimate is that approximately 50 people apply for every publicly posted hospital/MSG job. My best guess is that you'll have a success rate of 5% cold calling hospitals or MSG groups.

After you finish your highly regarded surgical fellowship doing total ankle replacements, you can expect to make $100k as an associate/sucker working for another private practice podiatrist clipping crusty toenails.

for the first part it seems that the 5% your referring to are all apparently on SDN!!

for the second part .... its THE TRUTH!!

With all the doom and gloom

There is no doom and gloom ! ... ill contest to anyone that tries to state otherwise ..... its all BS, just cranky pods that complain about anything .. you dont have to go far just look at or look back to your pod school class, how many whiners or complainers were there ? do you think that stops after pod school ends ? Whatever gets thrown in your way one can adapt to it .

 

[G0dFather]

I have worked in private practice for many years and my most of coworkers ran PP for 15 or so years. i can tell you all of us make much more now in MSG than in PP. the only real pro I see in PP is having your own hours assuming you are your own boss. That’s really it.

ONLY !!??? ... come on now ... there is way more .. the only real pro to working where you are is true PTO .... but that is easily solved in PP when you have a reliable associate working with you ... other than that i dont see any other pro compared to PP .... ill take a 350-500K+ on a corp vs a 350-500k+ on a W2 any day of the week

Fact check #2, if owning PP is key the to wealth, why are there so many interests in joining hospital, MSG, and orthopedic groups?

I don’t want to say too much to give away my identity, but realistically a lot of newer pods end up owning PP because they have been denied or rejected By hospitals, msgs, and orthopedic groups

Maybe they dont want to have to deal with stress from someone with a BA/MA telling you what to do, quotas, politics, the fear of not getting hired for a younger gunner willing to do your job for less .... or how about a situation like this pandemic ? .. in PP you have way more control and less BS to deal with