BLADEMDA

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So, is it legal for an AA to perform a nerve block if the Anesthesiologist is directly present during the entire procedure?

What about the performance of Neuraxial blocks? I assume the "legality" varies from State to State but I'm curious about your particular gig for those of you covering AAs.
 
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The ASA has been a strong advocate for the AA profession since its inception. Not only does the ASA participate in the training, education, accreditation, and certification of AAs, but it also is one of the biggest proponents of the expansion of AAs in the workforce. In the March 2003 ASA NEWSLETTER, David C. Mackey, MD, clinical associate professor of anesthesiology, University of Florida College of Medicine, Gainesville, said, “The national emergence of the AA is long overdue. It is time to work with well-trained physician extenders who want to work with us and who are committed to the anesthesia care team concept.”17

Who is behind the surgical drape? Understanding the role of anesthesiologist assistants | The Bulletin
 
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btbam

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So, is it legal for an AA to perform a nerve block if the Anesthesiologist is directly present during the entire procedure?

What about the performance of Neuraxial blocks? I assume the "legality" varies from State to State but I'm curious about your particular gig for those of you covering AAs.
At my hospital in Atlanta, AAs (I am one) don't do regional/neuraxial, but I have friends at other hospitals that do and as far as I know it is under our scope of practice. I did some neuraxial in school on clinical rotations, but no regional.
 
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untitled (4).png Not sure he actually said that, but it fits....
 

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So, is it legal for an AA to perform a nerve block if the Anesthesiologist is directly present during the entire procedure?

What about the performance of Neuraxial blocks? I assume the "legality" varies from State to State but I'm curious about your particular gig for those of you covering AAs.
AAs don't come across as trying to take over the profession like CRNAs, but that could be due to the fact I haven't spent much time with them.
 

AdmiralChz

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So, is it legal for an AA to perform a nerve block if the Anesthesiologist is directly present during the entire procedure?

What about the performance of Neuraxial blocks? I assume the "legality" varies from State to State but I'm curious about your particular gig for those of you covering AAs.
At my residency shop AAs were able to do neuraxial with anesthesiologists present, but many simply asked the attending to do it since they hadn't done it since school. I know of an academic center in Wisconsin that allows their AAs to cover the labor floor at night as well.

I have yet to see any AAs doing any substantial regional, but I admit I only have limited anecdotal experience.
 

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AAs don't come across as trying to take over the profession like CRNAs, but that could be due to the fact I haven't spent much time with them.
At my shop they do. There is no difference in the small group of militant CRNAS and AA's (we ha r
At my residency shop AAs were able to do neuraxial with anesthesiologists present, but many simply asked the attending to do it since they hadn't done it since school. I know of an academic center in Wisconsin that allows their AAs to cover the labor floor at night as well.

I have yet to see any AAs doing any substantial regional, but I admit I only have limited anecdotal experience.
At my shop, academic, free standing Childrens Hospital (Top X BTW , whatever the hell that means) they can do whatever the attendings delegate: regional, neuraxial, central lines, aline's.
everything is game. There are a few who are very aggressive and expect to do everything. It has made for a very uncomfortable working atmosphere, especially where the attendings who want to do the procedures have to justify it to the anesthetists. Let that sink in for a moment. This is the result of unclear expectations and a gradual but strong push by the anesthetists to expand "scope of practice".
 
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Well at least right now AAs are saying they they should work under the supervision of an Anesthesiologist while CRNAs essentially say that we should not exist. So if I have to choose, I'll go with the AAs.
 
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AAs don't come across as trying to take over the profession like CRNAs, but that could be due to the fact I haven't spent much time with them.
As I pointed out multiple times, the AAAA can be foound at www.anesthetist.org. Guess what an(a)esthetist means outside of the US?

They may look benign, but they are as dangerous as the CRNAs, just not legally there yet. I think @ghastly75's post speaks volumes.
 
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Well at least right now AAs are saying they they should work under the supervision of an Anesthesiologist while CRNAs essentially say that we should not exist. So if I have to choose, I'll go with the AAs.
It's just a matter of time (as I pointed out in your quote). The proverbial viper in the bosom.
 
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Well at least right now AAs are saying they they should work under the supervision of an Anesthesiologist while CRNAs essentially say that we should not exist. So if I have to choose, I'll go with the AAs.
Look at what the PAs are doing already. I don't want to work with any midlevels in any significant capacity. The only reason why we have so many of them is because of the oppressive documentation and regulatory requirements made by people who don't understand what we do. But it seems that doctors are increasingly getting pushed out of the clinical environment and into clerical roles while the midlevels are aggressively taking larger roles in patient care while actively apeing us in appearance, titles, whatever else they can think of.
 
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As I pointed out multiple times, the AAAA can be foound at www.anesthetist.org. Guess what an(a)esthetist means outside of the US?

They may look benign, but they are as dangerous as the CRNAs, just not legally there yet. I think @ghastly75's post speaks volumes.
Worked with both extensively in the same hospitals for 3 years, predominantly AA's. Totally different mindsets between the two, and as a result I strongly favor working with AA's like @btbam for that reason.

Do you regularly work with AA's?

To aid others, I have pulled a quote from the website you yourself linked:

AAAA said:
Anesthesiologist Assistants are highly skilled professionals who, under an anesthesiologist's direction, may:

  • Elicit a pre-anesthesia health history and perform a physical examination
  • Establish patient monitoring devices and intravenous access
  • Assist in the application and interpretation of advanced monitoring techniques such as pulmonary artery catheterization or echocardiography
  • Assist in the induction, maintenance and emergence of a patient's anesthetic
  • Secure the patient's airway through mask, endotracheal tube or laryngeal mask airway
  • Interpret and record the patient's physiological and pharmacological status
  • Provide continuity of care into and during the post-operative period
Based on an individual's qualifications and demonstrated skills, an anesthesiologist may delegate additional functions to a CAA such as performing and maintaining regional anesthesia, clinical teaching or responding to life-threatening situations with the cardiopulmonary resuscitation team.

Certified Anesthesiologist Assistants stress the team approach to patient care as defined by the American Society of Anesthesiologists. The members of the Anesthesia Care Team bring unique skills to the group and work synergistically to provide the best possible anesthesia care for the patient.
I think that addresses some of the questions re: regional as above.
 
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IM2GI

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I didn't even know this was a thing. How many tiers of anesthesia providers do we really need?
 

FFP

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Worked with both extensively in the same hospitals for 3 years, predominantly AA's. Totally different mindsets between the two, and as a result I strongly favor working with AA's like @btbam for that reason.

Do you regularly work with AA's?

To aid others, I have pulled a quote from the website you yourself linked:



I think that addresses some of the questions re: regional as above.
I remember back when PAs were happy to be second fiddle to MDs. Not anymore. I remember when there were barely any CRNAs in academic centers. Now many of them have SRNA schools. Sic transit gloria mundi. Wake up. It might not affect my generation, but less than 20 years from now AAs will follow the same path APRNs and CRNAs did before them. I wouldn't teach them anything more than I would teach a CRNA or ICU APRN. It's just a matter of time.

Yes, AAs are less militant than CRNAs. But don't think that some of them are not dreaming about independent practice. If ICU nurses have the guts to equal their own work experience with a resident's or a fellow's, don't think that an AA won't do the same with anesthesiology, deep inside. CRNAs think it all the time.If CA-3s have "senioritis", imagine how people with 10 years of anesthesia experience feel.
 
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I remember back when PAs were happy to be second fiddle to MDs. Not anymore. I remember when there were barely any CRNAs in academic centers. Now many of them have SRNA schools. Sic transit gloria mundi. Wake up. It might not affect my generation, but less than 20 years from now AAs will follow the same path APRNs and CRNAs did before them. I wouldn't teach them anything more than I would teach a CRNA or ICU APRN. It's just a matter of time.

Yes, AAs are less militant than CRNAs. But don't think that some of them are not dreaming about independent practice. If ICU nurses have the guts to equal their own work experience with a resident's or a fellow's, don't think that an AA won't do the same with anesthesiology, deep inside. CRNAs think it all the time.If CA-3s have "senioritis", imagine how people with 10 years of anesthesia experience feel.
I'm fine with your speculation, people inherently always want more regardless of their life-path. But right now AA's are more pleasant to interact with, and in many cases more capable, as they lack the hubris [and the "you are my enemy" mentality] of many of the CRNAs I've worked with. That's a huge generalization, but one that I'm sure many of us can make comfortably.

I am a big believer that hubris kills patients, not incompetence. What are your thoughts?
 

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As I pointed out multiple times, the AAAA can be foound at www.anesthetist.org. Guess what an(a)esthetist means outside of the US?

They may look benign, but they are as dangerous as the CRNAs, just not legally there yet. I think @ghastly75's post speaks volumes.
I'm sure many of the AAs have had thoughts about being equivalent to CRNAs and thus equivalent to physicians.
 

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I remember back when PAs were happy to be second fiddle to MDs. Not anymore. I remember when there were barely any CRNAs in academic centers. Now many of them have SRNA schools. Sic transit gloria mundi. Wake up. It might not affect my generation, but less than 20 years from now AAs will follow the same path APRNs and CRNAs did before them. I wouldn't teach them anything more than I would teach a CRNA or ICU APRN. It's just a matter of time.

Yes, AAs are less militant than CRNAs. But don't think that some of them are not dreaming about independent practice. If ICU nurses have the guts to equal their own work experience with a resident's or a fellow's, don't think that an AA won't do the same with anesthesiology, deep inside. CRNAs think it all the time.If CA-3s have "senioritis", imagine how people with 10 years of anesthesia experience feel.
Not gonna happen. We're 45 years in with AA's - I've been doing it for 36 years. We have not, are not, and will not be looking for independent practice. The whole profession is geared towards being part of the ACT. The legislation and federal regulations that allow us to practice are set up the same way. There is no ambiguity. Unlike PAs who frequently are doing what they do without a physician, AAs simply do not practice in that type of environment. To do so is illegal. An anesthesiologist has to be present - they have to sign every record we produce on every patient, in real time, not months later during "chart review". Our practice is set up where we uniformly follow the 7 requirements of TEFRA on every single case that we do.

That being said - AA scope of practice is generally defined as "administers anesthesia under the direction of the attending anesthesiologist". That definition is purposely broad, and is typically codified in state law and/or medical board regulations. That's because the best person to further decide scope of practice at the local level is the attending anesthesiologist, working within the local hospital's medical staff regulations. In my group, although I "administer anesthesia under the direction of the attending anesthesiologist", I am specifically excepted from doing regional anesthesia and central lines per hospital policy and my job description on file with the medical board. In my previous group, and at my former PRN practice, I was allowed to do both. I'm perfectly capable of doing Swans - and have probably done more than most of the physicians in my practice because I did them at another practice at a time when they were quite common. And nowadays, the SwanGanz catheters we have in our storeroom will likely expire before they are used. No big deal. I don't define my value as an anesthetist by where I can, or cannot, stick a needle.
 

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By training and by law, CAAs are required to be under physician supervision at all times. The profession was created by physician anesthesiologists in the southeast and has expanded to states all across the country. They are our friends. Get over the fact that other people besides doctors can administer anesthesia, place art lines and central lines, do peripheral nerve blocks, and neuraxial techniques - that's not what makes physician anesthesiologists unique. Physician anesthesiologists are needed not just to treat, but to diagnose and prognosticate.

I did residency in Florida where CAAs are as numerous as CRNAs, equally as competent, and definitely more invested in the team-based anesthesia care model than CRNAs. They need our support, and we need their support if we want to remain atop the team-based anesthesia care model.
 
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By training and by law, CAAs are required to be under physician supervision at all times. The profession was created by physician anesthesiologists in the southeast and has expanded to states all across the country. They are our friends. Get over the fact that other people besides doctors can administer anesthesia, place art lines and central lines, do peripheral nerve blocks, and neuraxial techniques - that's not what makes physician anesthesiologists unique. Physician anesthesiologists are needed not just to treat, but to diagnose and prognosticate.

I did residency in Florida where CAAs are as numerous as CRNAs, equally as competent, and definitely more invested in the team-based anesthesia care model than CRNAs. They need our support, and we need their support if we want to remain atop the team-based anesthesia care model.

 

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Yada yada yada....just like PAs did not want "independent practice" but now want to be called "physician associates" instead of physician assistants. Anesthesiologists are repeating history of CRNAs with AAs by allowing their scope of practice to increase within their own institutions, and eventually the AAs professional society will develop the same belligerence, hostility, and derision that the AANA has towards anesthesiologists. CRNAs not only believe they are superior to anesthesiologists, at least on the professional society level (your own CRNAs pay fees to the AANA each year to maintain a continuous push towards legislative and judicial hostile takeover of your profession), but they are now taking over hospitals and anesthesia contracts, displacing the anesthesiologists, hiring some sap to be the token sacrificial lamb on their alter when they screw up. AAs are 20 years behind, but make no mistake, AAs will have the same scruples with anesthesiologists as do the CRNAs and eventually will become just as militant.
 
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BLADEMDA

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Yada yada yada....just like PAs did not want "independent practice" but now want to be called "physician associates" instead of physician assistants. Anesthesiologists are repeating history of CRNAs with AAs by allowing their scope of practice to increase within their own institutions, and eventually the AAs professional society will develop the same belligerence, hostility, and derision that the AANA has towards anesthesiologists. CRNAs not only believe they are superior to anesthesiologists, at least on the professional society level (your own CRNAs pay fees to the AANA each year to maintain a continuous push towards legislative and judicial hostile takeover of your profession), but they are now taking over hospitals and anesthesia contracts, displacing the anesthesiologists, hiring some sap to be the token sacrificial lamb on their alter when they screw up. AAs are 20 years behind, but make no mistake, AAs will have the same scruples with anesthesiologists as do the CRNAs and eventually will become just as militant.
Do you mind explaining to me how this will occur? Since AAs are regulated by the Board of Medicine that profession would need approval by the BOARD for full practice authority. In addition, the AANA would oppose the expansion of AA practice. So, a small group of AAs (2,000) would be facing a battle against the ASA, AANA and Boards of Medicine.

So, your fears are not based on reality and if the AANA achieves 100% independent practice authority for its membership (likely over the next 20 years) the AAs are all that remain as a choice for the ACT.

The ASA went "wrong" by not regulating the CRNA profession when they had the chance 70-80 years ago. Instead, the CRNAs created their own governing Boards and scope of practice rules within the Nursing profession.
 

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Yeah, just like PAs are completely governed by the Board of Medicine- NOT!!! They were at one time, but now several states (8) PAs have their separate boards and in another 8 they are regulated by the State Department of Health or Healing Arts. So in nearly 1/3 of the states, physicians assistants are not regulated by the Board of Medicine. AAs will follow, since they are in effect, PAs, albeit specialized.
Power also derives from experience, and if anesthesiologists are really so dumb that they think some hospital administrator won't hire a flock of AAs they trained to do blocks, TEEs, etc, they are fools.
 
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Yeah, just like PAs are completely governed by the Board of Medicine- NOT!!! They were at one time, but now several states (8) PAs have their separate boards and in another 8 they are regulated by the State Department of Health or Healing Arts. So in nearly 1/3 of the states, physicians assistants are not regulated by the Board of Medicine. AAs will follow, since they are in effect, PAs, albeit specialized.
Power also derives from experience, and if anesthesiologists are really so dumb that they think some hospital administrator won't hire a flock of AAs they trained to do blocks, TEEs, etc, they are fools.
Medicine will be a single payer system long, long before any AA ever gets "independent practice." AAs can't even practice at all in the majority of States in the USA. Its pure fantasy to think a group of midlevels who don't even have the right to work under direct supervision of an Anesthesiologist in most states will obtain independent practice in your lifetime.


https://aaaa.memberclicks.net/assets/aaaa practice map aug 14.pdf

It's taken the AANA 50 years to get where they are today. AAs don't have the numbers or the backing to win that same fight.
 
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algosdoc

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It will be an interesting history they will forge, and given the prospects for a single payer you envision (and I agree), anesthesiologists will be even less empowered to thwart government driven incursions into the boundaries of scope of practice. It is likely neither you nor I will be around to reminisce about the good old days when there was not absolute fungibility between anesthesiologists, CRNAs, AAs, and part time janitorial staff trained to occasionally render anesthetics.
 

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I didn't even know this was a thing. How many tiers of anesthesia providers do we really need?
You need only 2 levels. MD/DOs and assistants. Unfortunately combination of no regulation in healthcare and anesthesia and greed fertilized proliferation of these pseudo practitioners. ASA did not do much either- many of them directly profiting from this mess.
Lately there is some response to it after they realized that huge number of midlevels could be running hospitals and drive care south.
 

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Anyone who doesn't believe that AA and PA aren't going to be arguing for independent practice is incredibly naive.

There's no reason to think they would behave any different then all the other para-medicals (CRNA, midwives, optometrist, dentists, pharmacists, podiatrists, chiropractors) who are seeking Independence and direct financial reimbursement from Medicare and commercial carriers.
 
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Anyone who doesn't believe that AA and PA aren't going to be arguing for independent practice is incredibly naive.

There's no reason to think they would behave any different then all the other para-medicals (CRNA, midwives, optometrist, dentists, pharmacists, podiatrists, chiropractors) who are seeking Independence and direct financial reimbursement from Medicare and commercial carriers.
I don't think dentists and pharmacists are paramedical. They do their own thing and don't pretend to be physicians. Chiropractors are not either because they have no medical training whatsoever even though they claim to be physicians.
 
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I don't think dentists and pharmacists are paramedical. They do their own thing and don't pretend to be physicians. Chiropractors are not either because they have no medical training whatsoever even though they claim to be physicians.
Then you haven’t been paying attention. Dentists in many places have started doing cosmetic procedures. Pharmacists are trying to get some designated privledges as part of the PCP chain and their state boards have encouraged them to push towards greater roles with recommending and even prescribing medications. Chiropracters have been successful in getting their noses in the tent for mandatory insurance coverage as a distinct medical discipline, etc....
 
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Chiropractors like to refer to themselves as having gone to medical school. They're charlatans in the first degree.
 

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I don't think dentists and pharmacists are paramedical. They do their own thing and don't pretend to be physicians. Chiropractors are not either because they have no medical training whatsoever even though they claim to be physicians.
I'm a chiropractor, now a medical student. To say that chiropractors have NO medical training is just naive. I think you should check out a curriculum before you make an ignorant statement like the above. Do chiropractors go to medical school? No they go to chiropractic school, just as podiatrists go to podiatry school and dentists go to dental school. As far as clinical diagnosis goes, I would put a 4th year chiropractic student in the top of his or her class up against a 4th year medical student in MSK/ortho/rads/bone path diagnosis and I can say with a high degree of probability that the chiro student would have the same or most likely higher degree of knowledge in that arena. A chiropractic student takes all of the same courses that an MD/DO student receives the first 2 years. If you would like I can provide you with a chiropractic school curriculum so you can see for yourself (it is about 300 credits and 5000+ hours of coursework which is around the same credits/hours as dental/pod/medical school). Yes med students get more clinical exposure with rotations 3rd and 4th year, but in the classroom chiro students get the same training we literally learn from the same textbooks and many of my professors in chiro school were MDs and DOs. Aside from the pre-clinical courses like biochem, micro etc, in my clinical years in chiro school I took Physical Diagnosis 1 and 2 (Bates textbook), Ob/Gyn 1 and 2, Path 1 and 2 (Robbins), Clinical Neuro, Diagnostic Radiology 1-4, Differential Diagnosis, GI Dx, Endocrinology, Pharm, Toxicology, Emergency medicine, Rheumatology, Orthopedics 1 and 2, Minor surgery, cardiopulmonary diagnosis, ENT diagnosis, derm etc. Am I saying that a chiro student or chiropractor has the same knowledge and level of understanding in those disciplines (other than msk/ortho/rads) as MDs/DOs and medical residents? Not even close. We dont just learn how to manipulate and claim we can cure asthma and then call it quits (btw any chiro that says they can cure asthma or any other systemic ailment is a quack). Chiropractors have more thorough training that many may think, especially in ortho/msk/rads since that is the majority of what they treat. But, to say that chiros get NO medical training is just absurd.
 
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I'm a chiropractor, now a medical student. To say that chiropractors have NO medical training is just naive. I think you should check out a curriculum before you make an ignorant statement like the above. Do chiropractors go to medical school? No they go to chiropractic school, just as podiatrists go to podiatry school and dentists go to dental school. As far as clinical diagnosis goes, I would put a 4th year chiropractic student in the top of his or her class up against a 4th year medical student in MSK/ortho/rads/bone path diagnosis and I can say with a high degree of probability that the chiro student would have the same or most likely higher degree of knowledge in that arena. A chiropractic student takes all of the same courses that an MD/DO student receives the first 2 years. If you would like I can provide you with a chiropractic school curriculum so you can see for yourself (it is about 300 credits and 5000+ hours of coursework which is around the same credits/hours as dental/pod/medical school). Yes med students get more clinical exposure with rotations 3rd and 4th year, but in the classroom chiro students get the same training we literally learn from the same textbooks and many of my professors in chiro school were MDs and DOs.
This sounds exactly like the DNP CRNAs I work with.
 

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I'm a chiropractor, now a medical student. To say that chiropractors have NO medical training is just naive. I think you should check out a curriculum before you make an ignorant statement like the above. Do chiropractors go to medical school? No they go to chiropractic school, just as podiatrists go to podiatry school and dentists go to dental school. As far as clinical diagnosis goes, I would put a 4th year chiropractic student in the top of his or her class up against a 4th year medical student in MSK/ortho/rads/bone path diagnosis and I can say with a high degree of probability that the chiro student would have the same or most likely higher degree of knowledge in that arena. A chiropractic student takes all of the same courses that an MD/DO student receives the first 2 years. If you would like I can provide you with a chiropractic school curriculum so you can see for yourself (it is about 300 credits and 5000+ hours of coursework which is around the same credits/hours as dental/pod/medical school). Yes med students get more clinical exposure with rotations 3rd and 4th year, but in the classroom chiro students get the same training we literally learn from the same textbooks and many of my professors in chiro school were MDs and DOs. Aside from the pre-clinical courses like biochem, micro etc, in my clinical years in chiro school I took Physical Diagnosis 1 and 2 (Bates textbook), Ob/Gyn 1 and 2, Path 1 and 2 (Robbins), Clinical Neuro, Diagnostic Radiology 1-4, Differential Diagnosis, GI Dx, Endocrinology, Pharm, Toxicology, Emergency medicine, Rheumatology, Orthopedics 1 and 2, Minor surgery, cardiopulmonary diagnosis, ENT diagnosis, derm etc. Am I saying that a chiro student or chiropractor has the same knowledge and level of understanding in those disciplines (other than msk/ortho/rads) as MDs/DOs and medical residents? Not even close. We dont just learn how to manipulate and claim we can cure asthma and then call it quits (btw any chiro that says they can cure asthma or any other systemic ailment is a quack). Chiropractors have more thorough training that many may think, especially in ortho/msk/rads since that is the majority of what they treat. But, to say that chiros get NO medical training is just absurd.
Good! I wouldn't study for the first 2 years of medical school if I were you. You should nail all 3 steps/levels easily with all that chiropractor medical knowledge.

On a more serious note, please make a note to yourself to come back to this post in 3-4 years just to appreciate the ridiculousness of your post.

And please study, I have classmates who were practicing PAs/NPs in their previous lives and they all struggled at some points during the first 2 years. Your chiropractor background will not carry you far.
 

Deecee2DO

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Good! I wouldn't study for the first 2 years of medical school if I were you. You should nail all 3 steps/levels easily with all that chiropractor medical knowledge.

On a more serious note, please make a note to yourself to come back to this post in 3-4 years just to appreciate the ridiculousness of your post.

And please study, I have classmates who were practicing PAs/NPs in their previous lives and they all struggled at some points during the first 2 years. Your chiropractor background will not carry you far.
lol you're putting a lot of words in my mouth, I never claimed to know everything, just making a point that saying "chiropractors have NO medical training" is a little ignorant and using the word "NO" as in zero, like we know nothing but how to manipulate joints is false. You aren't really understanding what I am trying to say because you already have a position on the subject and aren't willing to maybe broaden your understanding of what kind of training a chiropractor actually receives. I am not saying it is equivalent to MD/DOs but it certainly does not involve NO medical training. In your bold statement in your previous post comparing students, I am also comparing particular subjects (msk dx/skeletal rads dx) not every course in medical school. But whatever, this isn't even the topic of the thread, I'm done now.
 
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Mehd School

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lol you're putting a lot of words in my mouth, I never claimed to know everything, just making a point that saying "chiropractors have NO medical training" is a little ignorant and using the word "NO" as in zero, like we know nothing but how to manipulate joints is false. You aren't really understanding what I am trying to say because you already have a position on the subject and aren't willing to maybe broaden your understanding of what kind of training a chiropractor actually receives. I am not saying it is equivalent to MD/DOs but it certainly does not involve NO medical training. In your bold statement in your previous post comparing students, I am also comparing particular subjects (msk dx/skeletal rads dx) not every course in medical school. But whatever, this isn't even the topic of the thread, I'm done now.
I have two DC's in my class, both are in the bottom 5%.

Study hard.
 

Deecee2DO

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Well, 1st and 2nd year shouldn't be too difficult for you then.
I have never been a chiropractor but can understand what you are trying to communicate here.
Don't get me wrong I think 1st and 2nd year will be VERY challenging for me and I am going to study my butt off. I was NOT trying to communicate that med school will be easy for me at all, which I think some people were misunderstanding thinking that I was. I was just trying to communicate that saying chiros have ZERO medical training is grossly false. Thank you for understanding my point, however!
 

dhb

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Don't get me wrong I think 1st and 2nd year will be VERY challenging for me and I am going to study my butt off. I was NOT trying to communicate that med school will be easy for me at all, which I think some people were misunderstanding thinking that I was. I was just trying to communicate that saying chiros have ZERO medical training is grossly false. Thank you for understanding my point, however!
Ok let's settle for 0.1
 

Psai

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lol you're putting a lot of words in my mouth, I never claimed to know everything, just making a point that saying "chiropractors have NO medical training" is a little ignorant and using the word "NO" as in zero, like we know nothing but how to manipulate joints is false. You aren't really understanding what I am trying to say because you already have a position on the subject and aren't willing to maybe broaden your understanding of what kind of training a chiropractor actually receives. I am not saying it is equivalent to MD/DOs but it certainly does not involve NO medical training. In your bold statement in your previous post comparing students, I am also comparing particular subjects (msk dx/skeletal rads dx) not every course in medical school. But whatever, this isn't even the topic of the thread, I'm done now.
They don't even know how to manipulate joints properly, let alone do anything vaguely medical. Maybe you guys should learn head and neck anatomy during those "same as the first 2 years of medical school" educational years you have so that we can stop seeing carotid artery dissections from your ridiculous "treatments". Thanks.
 
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