SCOTUS will increase to 11 or 13 Justices

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For those on the right, does it bother you that Trump has such a strangle hold on your party? Honest question. It seems that Trump and his family are married to the Republican party for the foreseeable future and will likely shape policy based on their insane following and the fact that congressional leaders are so scared to step out of line. I don't see this changing anytime soon and only seeing their influence get stronger. May make it hard for people in the middle to move right if Trump continues to degrade the Republican party.

Not my party, but -

I'm not sure he actually has a stranglehold on the voters. There were enough of them (and independents) who split the ticket to keep a Republican Senate majority, and pick up Republican seats in the House[1], while failing to re-elect him.

And I suspect once he's out of office in January, most of the party itself will do its best to pretend he never existed. Especially when his legal problems and debt come home to roost. I don't think he's going to have much longevity as a "kingmaker" for the GOP.

I'm also not worried that the non-concession theatrics will make much of a difference in the end. Biden is competent and is surrounded by competent people. They want to do some stuff I don't agree with, but they're not incompetent. For all of the angst about the transition not going smoothly ... I have to say, I don't think even a willing Trump administration would be all that competent about an organized transfer of power. All those positions in the executive branch with interim appointees, or no appointees, or grossly unqualified incompetent appointees, honestly, what kind of transition did you think they'd be capable of in the first place? Biden and his team are going to walk in with a figurative armload of brooms and trash bags, take a deep breath, and get to work. And they're competent, so they'll get it done.

It'll be OK. But I've been accused of whistling past the graveyard, maybe I am, I guess we'll find out.



[1] granted the gains in the House were not THAT much of a feat, given the natural bounce back from Democrat overachievement in 2018
 
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*sigh, is it a fact if I change my wording to a lot of people in power are?

I mean you see examples of it errday from these hypocrites.

Are you throwing the word around as saying most leaders are "narcissists" in quotes like how people say "I’m a little bit ocd" when they like to clean or you mean that most leaders have narcissistIc personality disorder?

To me none of the presidents of the US before Trump since I’ve been alive have seemed to have narcissistic personality disorder. If you look at things they did before becoming president, it doesn’t seem to fit the narcissistic personality disorder picture. What examples are you drawing from for your opinion?

For example, it seems like all other presidents have stepped down graciously after their terms, including the 1 term presidents like Bush. Trump ignited the racist birther conspiracy against Obama and yet Obama still graciously met with him and did the inauguration with him, that doesn’t seem consistent with narcissistic personality disorder to me.
 
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Pretty sure you just called me a racist. Indirectly. Pretty hard to move forward from that. At least you threw the motte and bailey bs out the window and are actually saying what you want to say.

We could discuss all of your examples of racism, dismantle some of them, demonstrate how some are without proper context, or some are completely irrelevant. I could throw some but-Biden-isms and historical examples of racism from the left. To what end? Did you personally think trump was racist before 2015? Did you decide to hate him after he ran for president.

Stop the peaceful transfer of power BS. This isn’t without historical underpinnings. I’d anything you have 2 bushes as well as Obama to thank for recent peaceful transfers.

Gore didn’t concede till December.

This is all political posturing. Exacerbated by the fact that Trump is a ****ty showman. Testing the system. Most of it IS bs. Democracy is doing just fine. Trump will concede, there will be a peaceful transition. Sorry it’s not happening on your timeline. Keep burning the witch and watch the lefts tenuous grip on power wash away come 2022 if y’all don’t change the tune.

Motte and bailey? Nah. I've made no bones about it from the beginning. A large portion of his supporters are true believer MAGA types for whom the xenophobia and racism is a feature and the others are people who know who trump is, but who have cynically sold their souls for tax cuts, judges, etc.

You won't try to explain any of his overt racism because you can't dismantle jacksht when it comes to those comments (although I sure would get a hearty laugh from you writing an essay on the intricacies and nuances of KUNG FLU). Get a grip, dude. There is no context explaining or question of relevancy when someone says a judge of Mexican heritage can't do his job because he's of Mexican heritage. It's why Paul Ryan said his comments about Judge Curiel were "the textbook definition of a racist comment.". Historically I never thought about trump other than being some TV personality, but from the second he started making comments in 2011 about Obama's birthplace I knew exactly who he was. And I'm sure if I were a NY'er in the 70s and had seen how the Justice Dept sued trump and his dad for discriminating against black people I would've known then. Or if I had seen the full page ad trump took out in the 80s asking for the death penalty for the Central Park 5 who were all eventually found innocent, that might've also given me a clue too.

At first I thought that maybe you were in the latter category of the cynical trump voter types, but your position on "peaceful transfer of power BS" is pretty revealing, so thanks for giving up that pretense. There is no equivalency between the election in 2000 and what's going on now, and it's embarrassing that you'd even pretend as such. There is no recount now that comes down to fewer than 600 votes in ONE state. Trump has *decisively* lost in the *five* states he needed. End. Of. Story. Everything else that comes after is undemocratic bullsht which delegitimizes the peaceful transfer of power every second that it goes on (and that's before we get to the practical implications of no security briefings, no access to govt agencies for vaccine coordination). It's why >50% of the people in your cult think that trump "rightfully" won the election. I mean, you really have to have a poor grasp of the current situation if you think trump will EVER concede.

In the end, democracy will survive. But it'll be no thanks to you or any of the other enablers who can't accept that 1+1=2.
 
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Are you throwing the word around as saying most leaders are "narcissists" in quotes like how people say "I’m a little bit ocd" when they like to clean or you mean that most leaders have narcissistIc personality disorder?

To me none of the presidents of the US before Trump since I’ve been alive have seemed to have narcissistic personality disorder. If you look at things they did before becoming president, it doesn’t seem to fit the narcissistic personality disorder picture. What examples are you drawing from for your opinion?

For example, it seems like all other presidents have stepped down graciously after their terms, including the 1 term presidents like Bush. Trump ignited the racist birther conspiracy against Obama and yet Obama still graciously met with him and did the inauguration with him, that doesn’t seem consistent with narcissistic personality disorder to me.
Im not a psychiatrist and don't make DSM diagnoses. So, ya like how people say "I'm a little OCD". But you don't have to take my word for it...

"on average, presidents are more narcissistic than the average American"

"How many of us would have the desire, much less the ability, to promote ourselves ceaselessly? You have to do that as a politician. It's an amazing level of self-love . . . and need for affirmation."




 
Im not a psychiatrist and don't make DSM diagnoses. So, ya like how people say "I'm a little OCD". But you don't have to take my word for it...

"on average, presidents are more narcissistic than the average American"

"How many of us would have the desire, much less the ability, to promote ourselves ceaselessly? You have to do that as a politician. It's an amazing level of self-love . . . and need for affirmation."




Narcissism doesn't necessarily equate to a narcissist. There are also those rare people that truly just want to make the world a better place, though they're rare
 
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The 2016 election was November 8th. Hillary conceded November 9th. Obama had trump over to the WH on November 10th. All the blame Gore, blame Bush, blame Obama types shouldn't forget that.



1605924446342.png
 
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At first I thought that maybe you were in the latter category of the cynical trump voter types, but your position on "peaceful transfer of power BS" is pretty revealing, so thanks for giving up that pretense.
you sound a little unhinged man. You don't know anything about me. Yet you've somehow got me pegged based on what, a couple of thread posts? You don't see any irony in your hate and vicious attacks on people that don't agree with you. Anyway, I don't care to argue. But, if you are gonna continue to use SDN as your soapbox I'l l continue to respectfully disagree with you.
 
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you sound a little unhinged man. You don't know anything about me. Yet you've somehow got me pegged based on what, a couple of thread posts? You don't see any irony in your hate and vicious attacks on people that don't agree with you. Anyway, I don't care to argue. But, if you are gonna continue to use SDN as your soapbox I'l l continue to respectfully disagree with you.

Sigh, no substance....as expected.



Lol, and as for being "unhinged" - you might need to get your compass recalibrated if trump, rudy, et al were your choices to lead the country
 
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Sigh, no substance....as expected.



Lol, and as for being "unhinged" - you might need to get your compass recalibrated if trump, rudy, et al were your choices to lead the country
Sometimes there is some useful and enlightening back and forth in these threads. This is not one of those nights. As much fun as it is getting blasted on an anonymous forum for literally holding different beliefs, there is NOTHING I can say to you that would paint myself or my opinions in a more favorable way to you without getting down on my hands and knees and renouncing Trump and everything Trump ever touched. Your hate is literally palpable. I don't understand it.
 
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This is what Powell said

4FD812BE-0295-4D74-9407-7C2D9287E281.png



She has a JD from UNC Chapel Hill and was an Assistant United States Attorney for 10 years.
 
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Pretty sure you just called me a racist. Indirectly. Pretty hard to move forward from that. At least you threw the motte and bailey bs out the window and are actually saying what you want to say.

We could discuss all of your examples of racism, dismantle some of them, demonstrate how some are without proper context, or some are completely irrelevant. I could throw some but-Biden-isms and historical examples of racism from the left. To what end? Did you personally think trump was racist before 2015? Did you decide to hate him after he ran for president.

Stop the peaceful transfer of power BS. This isn’t without historical underpinnings. I’d anything you have 2 bushes as well as Obama to thank for recent peaceful transfers.

Gore didn’t concede till December.

This is all political posturing. Exacerbated by the fact that Trump is a ****ty showman. Testing the system. Most of it IS bs. Democracy is doing just fine. Trump will concede, there will be a peaceful transition. Sorry it’s not happening on your timeline. Keep burning the witch and watch the lefts tenuous grip on power wash away come 2022 if y’all don’t change the tune.
I don't know you, but I read some of your posts and I would be shocked if you are [insert] racist....
 
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Sometimes there is some useful and enlightening back and forth in these threads. This is not one of those nights. As much fun as it is getting blasted on an anonymous forum for literally holding different beliefs, there is NOTHING I can say to you that would paint myself or my opinions in a more favorable way to you without getting down on my hands and knees and renouncing Trump and everything Trump ever touched. Your hate is literally palpable. I don't understand it.

Yess sir, an emphatic yes to the bolded above.

But to clarify, you're not getting blasted just for having different beliefs. In the end we're all Americans even if you want to defund medicaid or ban abortion or lower taxes on the rich or increase military spending or drill in the artic wildlife refuge or whatever. But trump has put you and a whole bunch of other people in a situation you all would've never been in had you voted for a Kasich or Cruz or Jeb.

I don't just have policy differences with trump and all his enablers. He is a dangerous, unqualified, racist, corrupt criminal who has no business leading this country. And it's not just me saying that. I have followed politics relatively closely for 20 years, and in that time I have never seen a movement against a politician from inside his own party in the same vein or with the same ferocity as the Lincoln Project or Never-Trumpers or Republican Voters Against Trump. There is something distinctly different and distinctly un-American about him, and it really does baffle and pain me that what's obvious to me and 80 million other people (including a whole bunch of Republicans and conservatives) is not obvious to the other 74 million.



Policy differences are one thing. This is an entirely separate thing:

 
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Did you personally think trump was racist before 2015? Did you decide to hate him after he ran for president.
His history with his (and his father's) real estate company during the 70s and 80s was bad enough to draw a lawsuit from the Justice department for discrimination and he still hasn't bothered to apologize to the Central Park 5. None of that is smoking gun evidence but it raises eyebrows.

I said earlier, I don't believe he's a full blown racist in as much as he just loves everyone that agrees with him and is otherwise a complete idiot. I understand people who stick to voting Republican "for the issues" but I also think in 2016 there were better choices for the Republican primaries that would've gotten less Republican voters "canceled" for their choice. Just my opinion.

Serious, I don't think Ted Cruz, would've gotten the country to the point it's at currently, especially when it comes to division and you probably would've had the same policy results and a second term Republican president. It's hard to deny that xenophobia, which c'mon is a fancy word for racism, help get Trump past more rational Republicans, both far right and centered.
 
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Sometimes there is some useful and enlightening back and forth in these threads. This is not one of those nights. As much fun as it is getting blasted on an anonymous forum for literally holding different beliefs, there is NOTHING I can say to you that would paint myself or my opinions in a more favorable way to you without getting down on my hands and knees and renouncing Trump and everything Trump ever touched. Your hate is literally palpable. I don't understand it.

Thanks for your thoughts above.

I know I’m not going to change your mind, but I think many people are upset and passionate about this because it’s not just about normal "beliefs."

Sure we can argue all day about taxes and I understand people who say they don’t want to pay more taxes for example.

But when the beliefs include things like not wanting transgender people in the military for essentially no good reason other than thinking that being transphobic will make your base happy or separating children from their parents at the Mexico border and not reuniting said parents and children, it becomes different. Or saying that certain cities, in particular those with large Black populations are trash or changing title x funding regulations that mostly affect poor Black and brown people so that they can no longer access reproductive health care needs.

No politician is perfect, but there are certain things that the trump administration has enacted that has truly been horrific for certain groups of people, in particular historically marginalized people. I remember right after trump got elected a white, wealthy, cis-gender man told me "it sucks that trump was elected but it probably won’t affect me and I’m sure things probably won’t be that bad."

Well that hasn’t been the reality for many people. So while I agree that in general I’m ok with other people’s beliefs when it comes to certain things. I’m not ok with beliefs that treat certain groups of people as less than.
 
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His history with his (and his father's) real estate company during the 70s and 80s was bad enough to draw a lawsuit from the Justice department for discrimination and he still hasn't bothered to apologize to the Central Park 5. None of that is smoking gun evidence but it raises eyebrows.

I said earlier, I don't believe he's a full blown racist in as much as he just loves everyone that agrees with him and is otherwise a complete idiot. I understand people who stick to voting Republican "for the issues" but I also think in 2016 there were better choices for the Republican primaries that would've gotten less Republican voters "canceled" for their choice. Just my opinion.

Serious, I don't think Ted Cruz, would've gotten the country to the point it's at currently, especially when it comes to division and you probably would've had the same policy results and a second term Republican president. It's hard to deny that xenophobia, which c'mon is a fancy word for racism, help get Trump past more rational Republicans, both far right and centered.

Yep. And people act like someone had a gun to their head and made them vote for trump.

Obviously you can’t really help who endorses you, but when David Duke and the Proud Boys openly endorse you, that’s a pretty telling sign of which side of history you fall on.
 
I said it before... about 1/3 of Trump voters are racist. I am someone who was a Rand Paul fan and who voted for McCain.
 
Yess sir, an emphatic yes to the bolded above.

But to clarify, you're not getting blasted just for having different beliefs. In the end we're all Americans even if you want to defund medicaid or ban abortion or lower taxes on the rich or increase military spending or drill in the artic wildlife refuge or whatever. But trump has put you and a whole bunch of other people in a situation you all would've never been in had you voted for a Kasich or Cruz or Jeb.

I don't just have policy difference with trump and all his enablers. He is a dangerous, unqualified, racist, corrupt criminal who has no business leading this country. And it's not just me saying that. I have followed politics relatively closely for 20 years, and in that time I have never seen a movement against a politician from inside his own party in the same vein as the Lincoln Project or Never-Trumpers or Republican Voters Against Trump. There is something distinctly different and distinctly un-American about him, and it really does baffle and pain me that what's obvious to me and 80 million other people is not obvious to the other 74 million.



Policy differences are one thing. This is an entirely separate thing:
Hey man I can kind of respect that. You hold your position vehemently and eloquently. My question is so what does that make those 74 million people that don't agree with you? You can't just reduce 47% of the electorate to ignorant racists. You can't possibly believe that can you?
 
Hey man I can kind of respect that. You hold your position vehemently and eloquently. My question is so what does that make those 74 million people that don't agree with you? You can't just reduce 47% of the electorate to ignorant racists. You can't possibly believe that can you?
About a 1/3 of that 74 mil are...
 
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Isn't that essentially saying 1/2 of all white men are racist then? In all serious what am I missing? Is there data that support these numbers?
No data... It's just a hunch.

I like a lot of things that you like as a republican, but I just could support Trump. Most people who voted for Trump are not racists but a good portion of his base are. I would be shocked if you are not one of them unlike the other poster here who voted for him.
 
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Isn't that essentially saying 1/2 of all white men are racist then? In all serious what am I missing? Is there data that support these numbers?
I don’t like calling people racists because it’s an ugly label but if “playing to the base” includes using xenophobic/dog whistle rhetoric then there are questions to be asked. An example would be saying that Cory Booker is coming to destroy your suburbs. You may disagree but that’s an obvious dog whistle
 
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Hey- I’m basically a republican and voted for Biden this time specifically because of the stuff vector2 calls out. I think a fair number of moderates did so as well- enough to turn the election.

I am a bit surprised it was 72 million vs 80 million but I hardly believe that even 10% of those 72 million are racist (the way it should be defined, not the way it is defined by the left).

Trump says stuff that is overtly racist. But most people voted for him despite this, not because of this.

I DO think of those 72 million, a lot of people felt that Trump’s outrageous race lines “balanced out” the outrageous stuff coming from the left as a sort of “f-you” ie — “well, the left basically has pushed this racist narrative so far the word doesn’t mean anything anymore. They think all whites are racist anyway by promoting the culture of white-privledge, critical race theory, affirmative action etc”. And they are a bit happy to see someone push back so far (although would prefer doing it in a non-idiotic More eloquent way).

On the other hand Trump’s sheer incompetence (Mainly his response to coronavirus and now his temper tantrum about the election and fabrication of fraud) is what probably sank him in the end.
 
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Hey- I’m basically a republican and voted for Biden this time specifically because of the stuff vector2 calls out. I think a fair number of moderates did so as well- enough to turn the election.

I am a bit surprised it was 72 million vs 80 million but I hardly believe that even 10% of those 72 million are racist (the way it should be defined, not the way it is defined by the left).

Trump says stuff that is overtly racist. But most people voted for him despite this, not because of this.

I DO think of those 72 million, a lot of people felt that Trump’s outrageous race lines “balanced out” the outrageous stuff coming from the left as a sort of “f-you” ie — “well, the left basically has pushed this racist narrative so far the word doesn’t mean anything anymore. They think all whites are racist anyway by promoting the culture of white-privledge, critical race theory, affirmative action etc”. And they are a bit happy to see someone push back so far (although would prefer doing it in a non-idiotic More eloquent way).

On the other hand Trump’s sheer incompetence (Mainly his response to coronavirus and now his temper tantrum about the election and fabrication of fraud) is what probably sank him in the end.
I would say you’re correct. A lot of voters “hedged their bet” by voting Biden and then voting Republican down ballot
 
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Hey man I can kind of respect that. You hold your position vehemently and eloquently. My question is so what does that make those 74 million people that don't agree with you? You can't just reduce 47% of the electorate to ignorant racists. You can't possibly believe that can you?
Ignorant yes.

I honestly cannot understand how anybody who has a modicum of insight can look at what is going on right now and say that it is reasonable or fair. Honestly anyone who voted for Trump and is seeing what's happening now who doesn't resent that vote is absolutely ignorant.

Unlike other lame duck sessions in the recent past there is some serious **** going on right now and instead of dealing with that Trump is trying to unravel democracy and whip the right in to a frenzy--and for some undecipherable reason the right is largely embracing this insanity.
 
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Hey- I’m basically a republican and voted for Biden this time specifically because of the stuff vector2 calls out. I think a fair number of moderates did so as well- enough to turn the election.
I don't know if this claim is accurate when you consider support grew for trump by over 10million votes (2016 compared to 2020)
 
Isn't that essentially saying 1/2 of all white men are racist then? In all serious what am I missing? Is there data that support these numbers?
I think y’all White men are scared. Been scared of losing power, status and money. Been scared that the left is trying to make an even playing field for the rest of us brown, black and women folk and that is taking away some of those God given American rights and entitlements that your ancestors took from the Indians and claimed as theirs then passed on to their future generations. Trump stokes and puts fire under that fear and wasn’t scared to put it out in the open for everyone to see.
Scared that now after the Obama presidency that black and brown folk from the US and abroad are coming for what has been given to y’all so easily simply because you won the uterus lottery. All the while the rest of us had to claw and work our way up through sheer hard work, determination and tears, enduring many doors shut in our faces, while having to prove that we are just as worthy because nothing was simply handed to us due to our wrong skin color and/or sex.
That fear of the average Joe living the American dream has been chipped away at for decades by “others” and Trump just came in at the perfect time with all his racist and mysogynistic rhetoric and many of y’all just slurped it all up and saw him as the savior that is going to save your “status” in America.

If I was a White man born and raised in this country, and my leverage was being taken away, hell who knows, I may have voted for him too. I don’t know.

Some are straight up racists for sure. Others don’t necessarily exhibit overt racism or even covert racism. But for sure, xenophobia and fear of the “others” taking what is rightfully yours.

Everything else is just pure old rationalization IMO.
 
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Hey man I can kind of respect that. You hold your position vehemently and eloquently. My question is so what does that make those 74 million people that don't agree with you? You can't just reduce 47% of the electorate to ignorant racists. You can't possibly believe that can you?

The R-word is a complex thing to assign to people. It's why I always mention this extremely revealing interview with Lee Atwater from 1981 about how his southern strategy abstracted racism and codified it in increasingly less overt ways.

In 2020, while there are still a surprising number of hood-wearers and neonazis around, these make up a very small percentage of the 74 million. The more concerning group are the much larger percentage of the 74 million who bought in very strongly to the 'Mexico is sending drug dealers, criminals, and rapists' rhetoric, to the 'caravans are a dirty, diseased invading horde' rhetoric, to the 'a judge of Mexican heritage can't do his job because he's of Mexican heritage' rhetoric, to the 'African countries are shtholes' rhetoric, to the family separation policy, to the ban on many Muslim-majority countries, to the defense of keeping bases named after Confederate generals, etc. You may disagree, but these people are racist. They're not racist in a way that would necessarily prevent them from having a cordial conversation with say a black or Hispanic co-worker, but make no mistake- putting the red hat on and strongly buying into that sort of rhetoric or those actions is racist.

The last group are those - which probably includes a fair number of highly-educated people including some on this forum - who don't really care one lick for any of the racist rhetoric or racist actions but who turn a blind eye to it in service of political expediency. They make excuses for it the same way people made excuses for trump's "grab them by the p ussy" tape by saying it was just locker room talk. They come up with a constant stream of euphemisms and downplaying because it really hurts their psyche to have to associate themselves with something racist when they, in fact, do not believe themselves to be racist. But psychological assuaging does not negate reality.

I personally can shout it from the hilltops that trump is a racist, but mostly what I get in return is that I'm exaggerating or that I'm liberally biased or whatevs. Joe Scarborough, on the other hand, was born in Georgia, went to school in Alabama, and represented deep-red northern Florida in Congress. He had a 95% lifetime rating from the American Conservative Union during his tenure in which he voted to severely cut government, cut Medicare, ban abortion, freeze the minimum wage, and impeach Bill Clinton. When Joe Scarborough thinks trump's racism will bring down the party, or when he says that trump is the 'most racist president in modern American history', what does someone like you make of that? Same question goes when you hear of the other dozens of prominent conservatives who have echoed Scarborough's sentiment.
 
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The R-word is a complex thing to assign to people. It's why I always mention this extremely revealing interview with Lee Atwater from 1981 about how his southern strategy abstracted racism and codified it in increasingly less overt ways.

In 2020, while there are still a surprising number of hood-wearers and neonazis around, these make up a very small percentage of the 74 million. The more concerning group are the much larger percentage of the 74 million who bought in very strongly to the 'Mexico is sending drug dealers, criminals, and rapists' rhetoric, to the 'caravans are a dirty, diseased invading horde' rhetoric, to the 'a judge of Mexican heritage can't do his job because he's of Mexican heritage' rhetoric, to the 'African countries are shtholes' rhetoric, to the family separation policy, to the ban on many Muslim-majority countries to the defense of keeping bases named after Confederate generals, etc. You may disagree, but these people are racist. They're not racist in a way that would necessarily prevent them from having a cordial conversation with say a black or Hispanic co-worker, but make no mistake- putting the red hat on and strongly buying into that sort of rhetoric or those actions is racist.

The last group are those - which probably includes a fair number of highly-educated people including some on this forum - who don't really care one lick for any of the racist rhetoric or racist actions but who turn a blind eye to it in service of political expediency. They make excuses for it the same way people made excuses for trump's "grab them by the p ussy" tape by saying it was just locker room talk. They come up with a constant stream of euphemisms and downplaying because it really hurts their psyche to have to associate themselves with something racist when they, in fact, do not believe themselves to be racist. But psychological assuaging does not negate reality.

I personally can shout it from the hilltops that trump is a racist, but mostly what I get in return is that I'm exaggerating or that I'm liberally biased or whatevs. Joe Scarborough, on the other hand, was born in Georgia, went to school in Alabama, and represented deep-red northern Florida in Congress. He had a 95% lifetime rating from the American Conservative Union during his tenure in which he voted to severely cut government, cut Medicare, ban abortion, freeze the minimum wage, and impeach Bill Clinton. When Joe Scarborough thinks trump's racism will bring down the party, or when he says that trump is the 'most racist president in modern American history', what does someone like you make of that? Same question goes for the other dozens of prominent conservatives who have echoed Scarborough's sentiment.
So. Yes?
 
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"You break it, you own it," the conservative host said on "S.E. Cupp Unfiltered." "The Republican Party is now fully and totally responsible for these racist, divisive, un-American ideas. They are yours as much as any policy is. In fact, it is the policy. Republicans can pretend that this is just rhetoric, but when Central American children are put in cages at the border as policy and when the administration pushes to cut refugee admissions to zero as policy and when the president implemented a Muslim ban as policy, it’s not just words. It’s the agenda."

Cupp, who has repeatedly criticized the president, went on to call out GOP lawmakers who have called for Trump to just "focus on policy" when he faces scrutiny for his rhetoric.

"I hear this all the time from Republican lawmakers. 'Well, I wish he'd focus on policy. Let's focus on policy. I don’t like what the president said, but I'm focused on policy.' What a load of crap," Cupp argued, saying the idea that congressmen can "compartmentalize Trump into categories is the lie of the century."

"Trump is not a buffet where you can take what you like and leave what you don't," she added.
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And who is S.E. Cupp? "She is a former panelist on the CNN political debate show Crossfire, author of Losing Our Religion: The Liberal Media's Attack on Christianity and co-author of Why You're Wrong About the Right. She was a panelist on Real News on TheBlaze, a co-host of the MSNBC talk show The Cycle, and a frequent guest host on the Fox News late night talk show Red Eye w/ Greg Gutfeld. She is a frequent guest panelist on Real Time with Bill Maher."
 
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The more concerning group are the much larger percentage of the 74 million who bought in very strongly to the 'Mexico is sending drug dealers, criminals, and rapists' rhetoric, to the 'caravans are a dirty, diseased invading horde' rhetoric, to the 'a judge of Mexican heritage can't do his job because he's of Mexican heritage' rhetoric, to the 'African countries are shtholes' rhetoric, to the family separation policy, to the ban on many Muslim-majority countries, to the defense of keeping bases named after Confederate generals, etc. You may disagree, but these people are racist. They're not racist in a way that would necessarily prevent them from having a cordial conversation with say a black or Hispanic co-worker, but make no mistake- putting the red hat on and strongly buying into that sort of rhetoric or those actions is racist.

The last group are those - which probably includes a fair number of highly-educated people including some on this forum - who don't really care one lick for any of the racist rhetoric or racist actions but who turn a blind eye to it in service of political expediency. They make excuses for it the same way people made excuses for trump's "grab them by the p ussy" tape by saying it was just locker room talk. They come up with a constant stream of euphemisms and downplaying because it really hurts their psyche to have to associate themselves with something racist when they, in fact, do not believe themselves to be racist. But psychological assuaging does not negate reality.

I personally can shout it from the hilltops that trump is a racist, but mostly what I get in return is that I'm exaggerating or that I'm liberally biased or whatevs. Joe Scarborough, on the other hand, was born in Georgia, went to school in Alabama, and represented deep-red northern Florida in Congress. He had a 95% lifetime rating from the American Conservative Union during his tenure in which he voted to severely cut government, cut Medicare, ban abortion, freeze the minimum wage, and impeach Bill Clinton. When Joe Scarborough thinks trump's racism will bring down the party, or when he says that trump is the 'most racist president in modern American history', what does someone like you make of that? Same question goes when you hear of the other dozens of prominent conservatives who have echoed Scarborough's sentiment.

There are obviously people who fall in this category you are describing, but it’s a matter of opinion about how many. You can paint it that way but It’s just as easy to paint in this way:

Educated people voting Trump who:

1. Don’t think Mexicans “are criminals and rapists” but do think illegal immigration must be strictly fought against while we expand incentives for legal immigration of the “best and brightest”.

2. Aren’t scared of “white people losing their power” but rather want to enforce the law as it’s meant - equality and non-discrimination, fix any areas that are shown to be truly biased (such as law enforcement and criminal justice) rather than implement codified “positive racism” with policies like AA and force-feeding of cancel culture.

3. Are sick of ever expanding regulation and budgets, want to see the government actually trim some fat from a bloated/abused program before further expanding them.

4. Are sick of middle-class Americans in industrial jobs being told to just “retrain” while replacing them with immigrants (some illegal) and overseas factories (in the name of globalism)- thus the “America first” slogan resonating.

Now don’t get me wrong- Trump didn’t do many elements of #1, #2, #3 or #4 correctly, and bumbled through a lot of these things. Which is why he lost more than his outrageous statements. However, he did make some of the right gambits on these (in 180 degree turns from dems).

Wasn’t enough for me — but I can see why some people overlooked his flaws for these reasons.
 
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There are obviously people who fall in this category you are describing, but it’s a matter of opinion about how many. You can paint it that way but It’s just as easy to paint in this way:

Educated people voting Trump who:

1. Don’t think Mexicans “are criminals and rapists” but do think illegal immigration must be strictly fought against while we expand incentives for legal immigration of the “best and brightest”.

2. Aren’t scared of “white people losing their power” but rather want to enforce the law as it’s meant - equality and non-discrimination, fix any areas that are shown to be truly biased (such as law enforcement and criminal justice) rather than implement codified “positive racism” with policies like AA and force-feeding of cancel culture.

3. Are sick of ever expanding regulation and budgets, want to see the government actually trim some fat from a bloated/abused program before further expanding them.

4. Are sick of middle-class Americans in industrial jobs being told to just “retrain” while replacing them with immigrants (some illegal) and overseas factories (in the name of globalism)- thus the “America first” slogan resonating.

Now don’t get me wrong- Trump didn’t do many elements of #1, #2, #3 or #4 correctly, and bumbled through a lot of these things. Which is why he lost more than his outrageous statements. However, he did make some of the right gambits on these (in 180 degree turns from dems).

Wasn’t enough for me — but I can see why some people overlooked his flaws for these reasons.

Educated conservatives can be for those things in 1-4- that is their choice. My point is Ted Cruz would've gotten them to the same place. But instead of making a choice like that, they decided to purposefully and unconscionably ignore, euphemize, and sometimes even encourage trump's obvious, overt racism and divisiveness in order to serve their political interests.
 
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There are obviously people who fall in this category you are describing, but it’s a matter of opinion about how many. You can paint it that way but It’s just as easy to paint in this way:

Educated people voting Trump who:

1. Don’t think Mexicans “are criminals and rapists” but do think illegal immigration must be strictly fought against while we expand incentives for legal immigration of the “best and brightest”.

2. Aren’t scared of “white people losing their power” but rather want to enforce the law as it’s meant - equality and non-discrimination, fix any areas that are shown to be truly biased (such as law enforcement and criminal justice) rather than implement codified “positive racism” with policies like AA and force-feeding of cancel culture.

3. Are sick of ever expanding regulation and budgets, want to see the government actually trim some fat from a bloated/abused program before further expanding them.

4. Are sick of middle-class Americans in industrial jobs being told to just “retrain” while replacing them with immigrants (some illegal) and overseas factories (in the name of globalism)- thus the “America first” slogan resonating.

Now don’t get me wrong- Trump didn’t do many elements of #1, #2, #3 or #4 correctly, and bumbled through a lot of these things. Which is why he lost more than his outrageous statements. However, he did make some of the right gambits on these (in 180 degree turns from dems).

Wasn’t enough for me — but I can see why some people overlooked his flaws for these reasons.

This is a good post and honestly my guess is most people on both sides of the aisle could find agreement on 1-4. 4 is funny. I bet everyone posting in this thread owns stock in publicly traded companies and will depend on those stocks increasing in value as part of their retirement. These companies aren’t increasing the bottom line by paying ever increasing wages to American workers while someone overseas will do the work for 1/4, or less, the pay. No one is innocent in this game. At least I’ll admit it. But I do believe in investing in American companies and paying our workers good, fair wages with good benefits (healthcare, retirement) even when it doesn’t financially suit me. I want our government to support the Teslas and other new green energy companies as it’s clearly the future. That’s why I voted Biden and will very likely vote Democrat until the balance of power shifts more toward American worker over American corporations who make everything overseas.

Republicans who cheer this ‘America First’ crap, as if it really means anything, have historically sided with corporations over workers. One could argue it’s why we have an economy teetering on failure while the stock market is doing just fine.

When I look at Trumps rallies and the people there cheering ‘America First’, they’d vote Democrat if they really truly cared about American workers being treated fairly. But they can’t see through the veil, and instead ‘America First’ gets distorted into absurd support for isolationist immigration policy. ‘Build the Wall!’ Give me a break....
 
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I don't know if this claim is accurate when you consider support grew for trump by over 10million votes (2016 compared to 2020)

And uncle Joe Biden got almost 75 million votes. It wasn’t because he campaigned hard or because he is a charismatic and inspiring figure. He mostly stayed in his basement, right? Many of those votes were because people thought the US could not suffer through 4 more years of Trump.
 
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And uncle Joe Biden got almost 75 million votes. It wasn’t because he campaigned hard or because he is a charismatic and inspiring figure. He mostly stayed in his basement, right? Many of those votes were because people thought the US could not suffer through 4 more years of Trump.
Or 80 million
 
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This is what Powell said

View attachment 323595


She has a JD from UNC Chapel Hill and was an Assistant United States Attorney for 10 years.

"Some guy said some things about an election held in a different country under different circumstances under the direction of a dead man several years ago. This is the best evidence we have."
 
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I would say you’re correct. A lot of voters “hedged their bet” by voting Biden and then voting Republican down ballot
Only the looniest of my Republican family members voted Trump but they all stuck with red downballot. Basically everyone that served in the military or that has a degree voted Biden, and the Qanon rednecks and multilevel marketing moms (if you fall for one scam or conspiracy you'll fall for them all) voted Trump.
 
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TLDR:

Minimal # of overt. Moderate # of covert. And a decent # just turning a blind eye and enabling trump's racism even if they are not themselves racist.
Turning a blind eye to racism in the name of political convenience is a more calculated sort of awful than racism itself. It basically says, "I don't dislike you, your rights and wellbeing and the effects of my choices upon you simply don't matter to me."
 
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Turning a blind eye to racism in the name of political convenience is a more calculated sort of awful than racism itself. It basically says, "I don't dislike you, your rights and wellbeing and the effects of my choices upon you simply don't matter to me."

Indeed, it's worse in many ways. Overt racists and red hats are usually pretty ignorant but should know better. Trump’s educated base and his enablers in the higher echelons of power do know better...
 
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Indeed, it's worse in many ways. Overt racists and red hats are usually pretty ignorant but should know better. Trump’s educated base and his enablers in the higher echelons of power do know better...
so, lets recap here.

Again, I'm no psychiatrist, but in your pathologic worldview you split the Trump voter as either the R word or a cynic. At least that was your initial position. But when pressed, after sifting through your overly verbose diatribe, it reduces to the fact that they are really either the R word, or WORSE.

There is seriously some flawed logic here:
Trump is a racist -> You voted for Trump
therefore You are a racist.. or worse

If you are going to slander a member on this forum, as well as 47% of the electorate, the onus is on you to provide a mountain of evidence to that fact.

What I really think is happening here is that you are using a defense mechanism because the outcome of the elections weren't as convincing as you would have liked. The path of least resistance is to just say there must be something inherently wrong with that 47%. its a false conclusion. And I'll say it again, if you don't figure it out you should be really worried come 2022 and 2024.

And once more for the record, Trump has no redeeming qualities. There would could have been a thousand better choices (RUBIO!), doubtful any of them would have beat Hillary. He has used bigoted and xenophobic language. I'll stop short of the R word because they aren't equal, but he is ignorant. Ya, he is probably more narcissistic than most presidents. Never once haveI supported his continued efforts to maintain his grasp on the throne. There is no path forward. I standby the fact that there will be a peaceful transition of power. Everything else is political posturing and I wouldn't expect that to change much until after the dust settles in Georgia. But sorry, I'm going to stop short of groveling on my knees to make you feel better bud. Nor will I stand by in silence as you continue to push your narrative of the ignorant and racist republicans.
 
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Only the looniest of my Republican family members voted Trump but they all stuck with red downballot. Basically everyone that served in the military or that has a degree voted Biden, and the Qanon rednecks and multilevel marketing moms (if you fall for one scam or conspiracy you'll fall for them all) voted Trump.
Yeah the whole cognitive dissonance about being "america first!!!!" and then how trump treats the military also makes no sense. Mad that people kneel for the national anthem because it disrespects our troops, but then support a guy who dodged the draft, said pow mccain was essentially a loser, knew about bounties from russia on our soldiers and made fun of a military family whose son was killed in iraq and was awarded a bronze and purple heart. Just to name a few of the things he's done to disparage the military.
 
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