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Is that a fact?Most people of power are.
Is that a fact?Most people of power are.
He absolutely will. There is no path forward. He will so begrudgingly, but he will.
He will leave the White House. He will no longer be President. But he will not concede or admit he lost.
For those on the right, does it bother you that Trump has such a strangle hold on your party? Honest question. It seems that Trump and his family are married to the Republican party for the foreseeable future and will likely shape policy based on their insane following and the fact that congressional leaders are so scared to step out of line. I don't see this changing anytime soon and only seeing their influence get stronger. May make it hard for people in the middle to move right if Trump continues to degrade the Republican party.
*sigh, is it a fact if I change my wording to a lot of people in power are?Is that a fact?
*sigh, is it a fact if I change my wording to a lot of people in power are?
I mean you see examples of it errday from these hypocrites.
Pretty sure you just called me a racist. Indirectly. Pretty hard to move forward from that. At least you threw the motte and bailey bs out the window and are actually saying what you want to say.
We could discuss all of your examples of racism, dismantle some of them, demonstrate how some are without proper context, or some are completely irrelevant. I could throw some but-Biden-isms and historical examples of racism from the left. To what end? Did you personally think trump was racist before 2015? Did you decide to hate him after he ran for president.
Stop the peaceful transfer of power BS. This isn’t without historical underpinnings. I’d anything you have 2 bushes as well as Obama to thank for recent peaceful transfers.
Gore didn’t concede till December.
This is all political posturing. Exacerbated by the fact that Trump is a ****ty showman. Testing the system. Most of it IS bs. Democracy is doing just fine. Trump will concede, there will be a peaceful transition. Sorry it’s not happening on your timeline. Keep burning the witch and watch the lefts tenuous grip on power wash away come 2022 if y’all don’t change the tune.
Im not a psychiatrist and don't make DSM diagnoses. So, ya like how people say "I'm a little OCD". But you don't have to take my word for it...Are you throwing the word around as saying most leaders are "narcissists" in quotes like how people say "I’m a little bit ocd" when they like to clean or you mean that most leaders have narcissistIc personality disorder?
To me none of the presidents of the US before Trump since I’ve been alive have seemed to have narcissistic personality disorder. If you look at things they did before becoming president, it doesn’t seem to fit the narcissistic personality disorder picture. What examples are you drawing from for your opinion?
For example, it seems like all other presidents have stepped down graciously after their terms, including the 1 term presidents like Bush. Trump ignited the racist birther conspiracy against Obama and yet Obama still graciously met with him and did the inauguration with him, that doesn’t seem consistent with narcissistic personality disorder to me.
Narcissism doesn't necessarily equate to a narcissist. There are also those rare people that truly just want to make the world a better place, though they're rareIm not a psychiatrist and don't make DSM diagnoses. So, ya like how people say "I'm a little OCD". But you don't have to take my word for it...
"on average, presidents are more narcissistic than the average American"
"How many of us would have the desire, much less the ability, to promote ourselves ceaselessly? You have to do that as a politician. It's an amazing level of self-love . . . and need for affirmation."
The most narcissistic U.S. presidents
Forget Romeo and Juliet or Cleopatra and Marc Antony. At least when it comes to politics, one of the great love affairs of all time may have been between Lyndon Johnson and… himself.www.pewresearch.org
The 10 Most Narcissistic U.S. Presidents
A personality trait called “grandiose narcissism” has been tied to greatness in U.S. presidents—and also malignancy.www.psychologicalscience.org
Narcissism and the U.S. Presidency
Which Presidents were the most narcissistic? Does it help or hurt?www.psychologytoday.com
Narcissism: Why It's So Rampant in Politics
Narcissist politicians don't serve the people; they serve themselves.www.psychologytoday.com
you sound a little unhinged man. You don't know anything about me. Yet you've somehow got me pegged based on what, a couple of thread posts? You don't see any irony in your hate and vicious attacks on people that don't agree with you. Anyway, I don't care to argue. But, if you are gonna continue to use SDN as your soapbox I'l l continue to respectfully disagree with you.At first I thought that maybe you were in the latter category of the cynical trump voter types, but your position on "peaceful transfer of power BS" is pretty revealing, so thanks for giving up that pretense.
you sound a little unhinged man. You don't know anything about me. Yet you've somehow got me pegged based on what, a couple of thread posts? You don't see any irony in your hate and vicious attacks on people that don't agree with you. Anyway, I don't care to argue. But, if you are gonna continue to use SDN as your soapbox I'l l continue to respectfully disagree with you.
won’t be shocked to see a fumigation tent over the White House on Jan 22nd
Sometimes there is some useful and enlightening back and forth in these threads. This is not one of those nights. As much fun as it is getting blasted on an anonymous forum for literally holding different beliefs, there is NOTHING I can say to you that would paint myself or my opinions in a more favorable way to you without getting down on my hands and knees and renouncing Trump and everything Trump ever touched. Your hate is literally palpable. I don't understand it.Sigh, no substance....as expected.
Lol, and as for being "unhinged" - you might need to get your compass recalibrated if trump, rudy, et al were your choices to lead the country
I don't know you, but I read some of your posts and I would be shocked if you are [insert] racist....Pretty sure you just called me a racist. Indirectly. Pretty hard to move forward from that. At least you threw the motte and bailey bs out the window and are actually saying what you want to say.
We could discuss all of your examples of racism, dismantle some of them, demonstrate how some are without proper context, or some are completely irrelevant. I could throw some but-Biden-isms and historical examples of racism from the left. To what end? Did you personally think trump was racist before 2015? Did you decide to hate him after he ran for president.
Stop the peaceful transfer of power BS. This isn’t without historical underpinnings. I’d anything you have 2 bushes as well as Obama to thank for recent peaceful transfers.
Gore didn’t concede till December.
This is all political posturing. Exacerbated by the fact that Trump is a ****ty showman. Testing the system. Most of it IS bs. Democracy is doing just fine. Trump will concede, there will be a peaceful transition. Sorry it’s not happening on your timeline. Keep burning the witch and watch the lefts tenuous grip on power wash away come 2022 if y’all don’t change the tune.
Sometimes there is some useful and enlightening back and forth in these threads. This is not one of those nights. As much fun as it is getting blasted on an anonymous forum for literally holding different beliefs, there is NOTHING I can say to you that would paint myself or my opinions in a more favorable way to you without getting down on my hands and knees and renouncing Trump and everything Trump ever touched. Your hate is literally palpable. I don't understand it.
His history with his (and his father's) real estate company during the 70s and 80s was bad enough to draw a lawsuit from the Justice department for discrimination and he still hasn't bothered to apologize to the Central Park 5. None of that is smoking gun evidence but it raises eyebrows.Did you personally think trump was racist before 2015? Did you decide to hate him after he ran for president.
Sometimes there is some useful and enlightening back and forth in these threads. This is not one of those nights. As much fun as it is getting blasted on an anonymous forum for literally holding different beliefs, there is NOTHING I can say to you that would paint myself or my opinions in a more favorable way to you without getting down on my hands and knees and renouncing Trump and everything Trump ever touched. Your hate is literally palpable. I don't understand it.
His history with his (and his father's) real estate company during the 70s and 80s was bad enough to draw a lawsuit from the Justice department for discrimination and he still hasn't bothered to apologize to the Central Park 5. None of that is smoking gun evidence but it raises eyebrows.
I said earlier, I don't believe he's a full blown racist in as much as he just loves everyone that agrees with him and is otherwise a complete idiot. I understand people who stick to voting Republican "for the issues" but I also think in 2016 there were better choices for the Republican primaries that would've gotten less Republican voters "canceled" for their choice. Just my opinion.
Serious, I don't think Ted Cruz, would've gotten the country to the point it's at currently, especially when it comes to division and you probably would've had the same policy results and a second term Republican president. It's hard to deny that xenophobia, which c'mon is a fancy word for racism, help get Trump past more rational Republicans, both far right and centered.
Hey man I can kind of respect that. You hold your position vehemently and eloquently. My question is so what does that make those 74 million people that don't agree with you? You can't just reduce 47% of the electorate to ignorant racists. You can't possibly believe that can you?Yess sir, an emphatic yes to the bolded above.
But to clarify, you're not getting blasted just for having different beliefs. In the end we're all Americans even if you want to defund medicaid or ban abortion or lower taxes on the rich or increase military spending or drill in the artic wildlife refuge or whatever. But trump has put you and a whole bunch of other people in a situation you all would've never been in had you voted for a Kasich or Cruz or Jeb.
I don't just have policy difference with trump and all his enablers. He is a dangerous, unqualified, racist, corrupt criminal who has no business leading this country. And it's not just me saying that. I have followed politics relatively closely for 20 years, and in that time I have never seen a movement against a politician from inside his own party in the same vein as the Lincoln Project or Never-Trumpers or Republican Voters Against Trump. There is something distinctly different and distinctly un-American about him, and it really does baffle and pain me that what's obvious to me and 80 million other people is not obvious to the other 74 million.
Policy differences are one thing. This is an entirely separate thing:
About a 1/3 of that 74 mil are...Hey man I can kind of respect that. You hold your position vehemently and eloquently. My question is so what does that make those 74 million people that don't agree with you? You can't just reduce 47% of the electorate to ignorant racists. You can't possibly believe that can you?
Isn't that essentially saying 1/2 of all white men are racist then? In all serious what am I missing? Is there data that support these numbers?I said it before... about 1/3 of Trump voters are racist. I am someone who was a Rand Paul fan and who voted for McCain.
No data... It's just a hunch.Isn't that essentially saying 1/2 of all white men are racist then? In all serious what am I missing? Is there data that support these numbers?
I don’t like calling people racists because it’s an ugly label but if “playing to the base” includes using xenophobic/dog whistle rhetoric then there are questions to be asked. An example would be saying that Cory Booker is coming to destroy your suburbs. You may disagree but that’s an obvious dog whistleIsn't that essentially saying 1/2 of all white men are racist then? In all serious what am I missing? Is there data that support these numbers?
I would say you’re correct. A lot of voters “hedged their bet” by voting Biden and then voting Republican down ballotHey- I’m basically a republican and voted for Biden this time specifically because of the stuff vector2 calls out. I think a fair number of moderates did so as well- enough to turn the election.
I am a bit surprised it was 72 million vs 80 million but I hardly believe that even 10% of those 72 million are racist (the way it should be defined, not the way it is defined by the left).
Trump says stuff that is overtly racist. But most people voted for him despite this, not because of this.
I DO think of those 72 million, a lot of people felt that Trump’s outrageous race lines “balanced out” the outrageous stuff coming from the left as a sort of “f-you” ie — “well, the left basically has pushed this racist narrative so far the word doesn’t mean anything anymore. They think all whites are racist anyway by promoting the culture of white-privledge, critical race theory, affirmative action etc”. And they are a bit happy to see someone push back so far (although would prefer doing it in a non-idiotic More eloquent way).
On the other hand Trump’s sheer incompetence (Mainly his response to coronavirus and now his temper tantrum about the election and fabrication of fraud) is what probably sank him in the end.
Ignorant yes.Hey man I can kind of respect that. You hold your position vehemently and eloquently. My question is so what does that make those 74 million people that don't agree with you? You can't just reduce 47% of the electorate to ignorant racists. You can't possibly believe that can you?
I don't know if this claim is accurate when you consider support grew for trump by over 10million votes (2016 compared to 2020)Hey- I’m basically a republican and voted for Biden this time specifically because of the stuff vector2 calls out. I think a fair number of moderates did so as well- enough to turn the election.
I think y’all White men are scared. Been scared of losing power, status and money. Been scared that the left is trying to make an even playing field for the rest of us brown, black and women folk and that is taking away some of those God given American rights and entitlements that your ancestors took from the Indians and claimed as theirs then passed on to their future generations. Trump stokes and puts fire under that fear and wasn’t scared to put it out in the open for everyone to see.Isn't that essentially saying 1/2 of all white men are racist then? In all serious what am I missing? Is there data that support these numbers?
Hey man I can kind of respect that. You hold your position vehemently and eloquently. My question is so what does that make those 74 million people that don't agree with you? You can't just reduce 47% of the electorate to ignorant racists. You can't possibly believe that can you?
So. Yes?The R-word is a complex thing to assign to people. It's why I always mention this extremely revealing interview with Lee Atwater from 1981 about how his southern strategy abstracted racism and codified it in increasingly less overt ways.
In 2020, while there are still a surprising number of hood-wearers and neonazis around, these make up a very small percentage of the 74 million. The more concerning group are the much larger percentage of the 74 million who bought in very strongly to the 'Mexico is sending drug dealers, criminals, and rapists' rhetoric, to the 'caravans are a dirty, diseased invading horde' rhetoric, to the 'a judge of Mexican heritage can't do his job because he's of Mexican heritage' rhetoric, to the 'African countries are shtholes' rhetoric, to the family separation policy, to the ban on many Muslim-majority countries to the defense of keeping bases named after Confederate generals, etc. You may disagree, but these people are racist. They're not racist in a way that would necessarily prevent them from having a cordial conversation with say a black or Hispanic co-worker, but make no mistake- putting the red hat on and strongly buying into that sort of rhetoric or those actions is racist.
The last group are those - which probably includes a fair number of highly-educated people including some on this forum - who don't really care one lick for any of the racist rhetoric or racist actions but who turn a blind eye to it in service of political expediency. They make excuses for it the same way people made excuses for trump's "grab them by the p ussy" tape by saying it was just locker room talk. They come up with a constant stream of euphemisms and downplaying because it really hurts their psyche to have to associate themselves with something racist when they, in fact, do not believe themselves to be racist. But psychological assuaging does not negate reality.
I personally can shout it from the hilltops that trump is a racist, but mostly what I get in return is that I'm exaggerating or that I'm liberally biased or whatevs. Joe Scarborough, on the other hand, was born in Georgia, went to school in Alabama, and represented deep-red northern Florida in Congress. He had a 95% lifetime rating from the American Conservative Union during his tenure in which he voted to severely cut government, cut Medicare, ban abortion, freeze the minimum wage, and impeach Bill Clinton. When Joe Scarborough thinks trump's racism will bring down the party, or when he says that trump is the 'most racist president in modern American history', what does someone like you make of that? Same question goes for the other dozens of prominent conservatives who have echoed Scarborough's sentiment.
So. Yes?
The more concerning group are the much larger percentage of the 74 million who bought in very strongly to the 'Mexico is sending drug dealers, criminals, and rapists' rhetoric, to the 'caravans are a dirty, diseased invading horde' rhetoric, to the 'a judge of Mexican heritage can't do his job because he's of Mexican heritage' rhetoric, to the 'African countries are shtholes' rhetoric, to the family separation policy, to the ban on many Muslim-majority countries, to the defense of keeping bases named after Confederate generals, etc. You may disagree, but these people are racist. They're not racist in a way that would necessarily prevent them from having a cordial conversation with say a black or Hispanic co-worker, but make no mistake- putting the red hat on and strongly buying into that sort of rhetoric or those actions is racist.
The last group are those - which probably includes a fair number of highly-educated people including some on this forum - who don't really care one lick for any of the racist rhetoric or racist actions but who turn a blind eye to it in service of political expediency. They make excuses for it the same way people made excuses for trump's "grab them by the p ussy" tape by saying it was just locker room talk. They come up with a constant stream of euphemisms and downplaying because it really hurts their psyche to have to associate themselves with something racist when they, in fact, do not believe themselves to be racist. But psychological assuaging does not negate reality.
I personally can shout it from the hilltops that trump is a racist, but mostly what I get in return is that I'm exaggerating or that I'm liberally biased or whatevs. Joe Scarborough, on the other hand, was born in Georgia, went to school in Alabama, and represented deep-red northern Florida in Congress. He had a 95% lifetime rating from the American Conservative Union during his tenure in which he voted to severely cut government, cut Medicare, ban abortion, freeze the minimum wage, and impeach Bill Clinton. When Joe Scarborough thinks trump's racism will bring down the party, or when he says that trump is the 'most racist president in modern American history', what does someone like you make of that? Same question goes when you hear of the other dozens of prominent conservatives who have echoed Scarborough's sentiment.
There are obviously people who fall in this category you are describing, but it’s a matter of opinion about how many. You can paint it that way but It’s just as easy to paint in this way:
Educated people voting Trump who:
1. Don’t think Mexicans “are criminals and rapists” but do think illegal immigration must be strictly fought against while we expand incentives for legal immigration of the “best and brightest”.
2. Aren’t scared of “white people losing their power” but rather want to enforce the law as it’s meant - equality and non-discrimination, fix any areas that are shown to be truly biased (such as law enforcement and criminal justice) rather than implement codified “positive racism” with policies like AA and force-feeding of cancel culture.
3. Are sick of ever expanding regulation and budgets, want to see the government actually trim some fat from a bloated/abused program before further expanding them.
4. Are sick of middle-class Americans in industrial jobs being told to just “retrain” while replacing them with immigrants (some illegal) and overseas factories (in the name of globalism)- thus the “America first” slogan resonating.
Now don’t get me wrong- Trump didn’t do many elements of #1, #2, #3 or #4 correctly, and bumbled through a lot of these things. Which is why he lost more than his outrageous statements. However, he did make some of the right gambits on these (in 180 degree turns from dems).
Wasn’t enough for me — but I can see why some people overlooked his flaws for these reasons.
There are obviously people who fall in this category you are describing, but it’s a matter of opinion about how many. You can paint it that way but It’s just as easy to paint in this way:
Educated people voting Trump who:
1. Don’t think Mexicans “are criminals and rapists” but do think illegal immigration must be strictly fought against while we expand incentives for legal immigration of the “best and brightest”.
2. Aren’t scared of “white people losing their power” but rather want to enforce the law as it’s meant - equality and non-discrimination, fix any areas that are shown to be truly biased (such as law enforcement and criminal justice) rather than implement codified “positive racism” with policies like AA and force-feeding of cancel culture.
3. Are sick of ever expanding regulation and budgets, want to see the government actually trim some fat from a bloated/abused program before further expanding them.
4. Are sick of middle-class Americans in industrial jobs being told to just “retrain” while replacing them with immigrants (some illegal) and overseas factories (in the name of globalism)- thus the “America first” slogan resonating.
Now don’t get me wrong- Trump didn’t do many elements of #1, #2, #3 or #4 correctly, and bumbled through a lot of these things. Which is why he lost more than his outrageous statements. However, he did make some of the right gambits on these (in 180 degree turns from dems).
Wasn’t enough for me — but I can see why some people overlooked his flaws for these reasons.
I don't know if this claim is accurate when you consider support grew for trump by over 10million votes (2016 compared to 2020)
Or 80 millionAnd uncle Joe Biden got almost 75 million votes. It wasn’t because he campaigned hard or because he is a charismatic and inspiring figure. He mostly stayed in his basement, right? Many of those votes were because people thought the US could not suffer through 4 more years of Trump.
This is what Powell said
View attachment 323595
She has a JD from UNC Chapel Hill and was an Assistant United States Attorney for 10 years.
Only the looniest of my Republican family members voted Trump but they all stuck with red downballot. Basically everyone that served in the military or that has a degree voted Biden, and the Qanon rednecks and multilevel marketing moms (if you fall for one scam or conspiracy you'll fall for them all) voted Trump.I would say you’re correct. A lot of voters “hedged their bet” by voting Biden and then voting Republican down ballot
Turning a blind eye to racism in the name of political convenience is a more calculated sort of awful than racism itself. It basically says, "I don't dislike you, your rights and wellbeing and the effects of my choices upon you simply don't matter to me."TLDR:
Minimal # of overt. Moderate # of covert. And a decent # just turning a blind eye and enabling trump's racism even if they are not themselves racist.
Turning a blind eye to racism in the name of political convenience is a more calculated sort of awful than racism itself. It basically says, "I don't dislike you, your rights and wellbeing and the effects of my choices upon you simply don't matter to me."
so, lets recap here.Indeed, it's worse in many ways. Overt racists and red hats are usually pretty ignorant but should know better. Trump’s educated base and his enablers in the higher echelons of power do know better...
Yeah the whole cognitive dissonance about being "america first!!!!" and then how trump treats the military also makes no sense. Mad that people kneel for the national anthem because it disrespects our troops, but then support a guy who dodged the draft, said pow mccain was essentially a loser, knew about bounties from russia on our soldiers and made fun of a military family whose son was killed in iraq and was awarded a bronze and purple heart. Just to name a few of the things he's done to disparage the military.Only the looniest of my Republican family members voted Trump but they all stuck with red downballot. Basically everyone that served in the military or that has a degree voted Biden, and the Qanon rednecks and multilevel marketing moms (if you fall for one scam or conspiracy you'll fall for them all) voted Trump.