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SGU Vs. ROSS Vs. AUA Vs. AUC Vs. SABA Vs. MUA

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DocBlin

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In today's atmosphere the risks of obtaining a specialty residency are decreasing daily for IMG's, especially from Caribbean schools. The near future the joining of the MD & DO ACGME programs will than offer the DO grads better placement options. Just an old MDs thoughts.
 

the argus

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In today's atmosphere the risks of obtaining a specialty residency are decreasing daily for IMG's, especially from Caribbean schools. The near future the joining of the MD & DO ACGME programs will than offer the DO grads better placement options. Just an old MDs thoughts.
I agree that people should in general choose DO over caribbean MD. That said, your reasoning about DO placement doesn't make any sense to me.

DO grads are already able to apply for ACGME residencies. All this merger is doing is bringing AOA residency programs under the purview of the ACGME and combined into the NRMP. Not sure at all how this would affect the placement of DO grads at more competitive residency programs. DO grads don't get better residency placement because prestige of medical school matters. This is why grads from Hopkins/Penn/Harvard/etc place better than grads from Drexel/NYMC/etc, which place better than DO/IMG. Not sure how this merger would change this.
 

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It was directed at anybody deciding between D.O. and Caribbean M.D. It makes absolutely no sense to risk your residency placement by going Carib MD if you have the opportunity to go US DO. Even you have to admit that your chances of A) getting a residency whatsoever and B) getting the residency you want, is much much much better from US DO medical schools than even the best caribbean MD schools.

I detest blanket statements.

If a Caribbean grad at a reputable school gets great letters, scores well above average on all Steps, and has an overall stellar personality, I would pit them against an D.O. grad from a newer, less-established osteopathic program with marginal board scores and sketchy LORs.

How do I know this? ;)

-Skip

P.S. If you're talking "law of averages" then, yes, I agree with you. Otherwise, my advice: don't be average. Then again, if one was "above average" chances are they'd probably be in a U.S. MD granting program already. I was just (primarily) talking about the letters on your labcoat anyway.
 
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Let me parse and state again, because I think you missed the point...

I detest blanket statements.

I was just (primarily) talking about the letters on your labcoat anyway.

Satisfied?

Your ultimate goal should be to post factual things on this forum. Not fill it with wishful thinking/false hope scenarios like "don't go to US DO, just go to Carib MD school and pray you're an all-star with a 270 on step 1".

Please catalog for me where I said/implied/did the later as opposed to the former over the ten+ years I've been contributing to this forum.

What are you doing here anyway? This is a Caribbean forum.

-Skip
 

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I did not have a strong GPA but my MCAT was decent. I ended up being accepted in the Foundations program at SGU (which is like the MERP program for Ross).

I really like the program so far and as long as I meet the program requirements, I automatically matriculate. The perk is that being in this program is basically first term of medical school! So we have an advantage.

All this to say, I think Caribbean medical school is a good and viable option for people who need a second chance or for people like me who would rather go to school in a less cut throat environment. All the tours I went on to the schools in the states really turned me off but meeting Caribbean grads really impressed me. Especially when I found out my own doctor was a caribbean graduate.

You can decide later if you dont want to accept for whatever reason but SGU in particular has many programs in place to help their students succeed. I will say that the turnover rate is fairly high in the beginning, but you won't make it to the end if you aren't already dedicated and doing VERY well. I say do your own research. Stay away from people who are negative and have negative experiences. What works and has happened to some, may not be the same experience. Do you have to work harder as a caribbean med student? Yes. Is it do-able? Certainly!

Here is my blog (recently started) I share quite a bit on there!

www.keiexperience.wordpress.com

If you have any questions feel free to reach out to me. I literally just went through the admissions process so I may be of some assistance! good luck!
 
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ThoracicGuy

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    I did not have a strong GPA but my MCAT was decent. I ended up being accepted in the Foundations program at SGU (which is like the MERP program for Ross).

    I really like the program so far and as long as I meet the program requirements, I automatically matriculate. The perk is that being in this program is basically first term of medical school! So we have an advantage.

    All this to say, I think Caribbean medical school is a good and viable option for people who need a second chance or for people like me who would rather go to school in a less cut throat environment. All the tours I went on to the schools in the states really turned me off but meeting Caribbean grads really impressed me. Especially when I found out my own doctor was a caribbean graduate.

    You can decide later if you dont want to accept for whatever reason but SGU in particular has many programs in place to help their students succeed. I will say that the turnover rate is fairly high in the beginning, but you won't make it to the end if you aren't already dedicated and doing VERY well. I say do your own research. Stay away from people who are negative and have negative experiences. What works and has happened to some, may not be the same experience. Do you have to work harder as a caribbean med student? Yes. Is it do-able? Certainly!

    Here is my blog (recently started) I share quite a bit on there!

    www.keiexperience.wordpress.com

    If you have any questions feel free to reach out to me. I literally just went through the admissions process so I may be of some assistance! good luck!

    The Caribbean is a MORE cutthroat environment than US schools. You have to do better with less support just to get what US students get for passing. It will be harder for you to get the residency you want now. Good luck.
     
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    Smiles91

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    The Caribbean is a MORE cutthroat environment than US schools. You have to do better with less support just to get what US students get for passing. It will be harder for you to get the residency you want now. Good luck.

    I am not sure how true this is. I just started at SGU so I am definitely no expert but when I mentioned the cutthroat environment, it was purely in reference to being in school. At SGU there are a lot of resources for success; however, you have to go for it. No one holds your hand but its available. You do have to work VERY hard because caribbean students arent guaranteed anything, but our school has ties with many hospitals and upon completion and with good scores I know people match and do well. I have plenty of friends who have graduated from SGU (including my primary physician) and they are very successful now (got the residency they wanted and are doing what they want in life). I agree that it will be harder but at a Caribbean school I noticed that the staff are a bit more invested and they have more staff just to assist us if we need additional help.
     
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    Smiles91

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    The Caribbean is a MORE cutthroat environment than US schools. You have to do better with less support just to get what US students get for passing. It will be harder for you to get the residency you want now. Good luck.

    I hope my response was clear. I do agree with what you said, but I also was just trying to clarify in case my original comment was misunderstood!
     

    ThoracicGuy

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    I am not sure how true this is. I just started at SGU so I am definitely no expert but when I mentioned the cutthroat environment, it was purely in reference to being in school. At SGU there are a lot of resources for success; however, you have to go for it. No one holds your hand but its available. You do have to work VERY hard because caribbean students arent guaranteed anything, but our school has ties with many hospitals and upon completion and with good scores I know people match and do well. I have plenty of friends who have graduated from SGU (including my primary physician) and they are very successful now (got the residency they wanted and are doing what they want in life). I agree that it will be harder but at a Caribbean school I noticed that the staff are a bit more invested and they have more staff just to assist us if we need additional help.

    No, the staff and admin are NOT more invested in you in the Caribbean. It's easy to fail out of these schools, even SGU. In US schools, it is difficult to fail out. Once you are accepted, the schools do everything they can to get you through. And in the end, even students that have difficulties will generally get a residency. In the Caribbean, those students that have alot of difficulties often times won't get a residency. That's the issue.

    But you've made your decision and at this point you can only press forward and give it everything you can.
     
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    bedevilled ben

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    I did not have a strong GPA but my MCAT was decent. I ended up being accepted in the Foundations program at SGU (which is like the MERP program for Ross).

    I really like the program so far and as long as I meet the program requirements, I automatically matriculate. The perk is that being in this program is basically first term of medical school! So we have an advantage.

    If you have any questions feel free to reach out to me. I literally just went through the admissions process so I may be of some assistance! good luck!

    I skimmed through your blog briefly. I'm not sure that anything I say will be considered, but I feel compelled to try. You really need to take a hard look at your situation and come to reality with what you're doing. SGU is not all butterflies and rose petals. These constant self-affirmations just reek of insecurity and doubt, and are setting you up for tremendous heartache. I'm telling you this with perfect certainty: there are times where you are going to fail in medical school. It may not be on exams, but it will happen. And you're going to fail your patients sometimes too. It's okay to be sad or insecure or fearful, those aren't necessarily bad things to be avoided. Sadness and failure are normal human experiences and can make your empathy for others more genuine. Insecurity and fear can push you to work just a little bit harder when you think you can't.

    You mentioned in one of your blog posts your exam grades. The ones you scored well, you felt that you earned it. The ones you didn't score well on, you "didn't deserve that grade". You need to eliminate the words "fair" and "deserved" from your vocabulary. The moment you decided to enter medicine you forfeited those ideas. Nobody gets what they deserve, and no part of the process is fair or equitable, especially in the Caribbean. A big part of medicine is managing risk, and sometimes that requires being callously realistic and objective about the future consequences of your present actions. As someone who's gone through the process at SGU myself, it doesn't seem like you're doing that.
     
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    gyngyn

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    I skimmed through your blog briefly. I'm not sure that anything I say will be considered, but I feel compelled to try. You really need to take a hard look at your situation and come to reality with what you're doing. SGU is not all butterflies and rose petals. These constant self-affirmations just reek of insecurity and doubt, and are setting you up for tremendous heartache. I'm telling you this with perfect certainty: there are times where you are going to fail in medical school. It may not be on exams, but it will happen. And you're going to fail your patients sometimes too. It's okay to be sad or insecure or fearful, those aren't necessarily bad things to be avoided. Sadness and failure are normal human experiences and can make your empathy for others more genuine. Insecurity and fear can push you to work just a little bit harder when you think you can't.

    You mentioned in one of your blog posts your exam grades. The ones you scored well, you felt that you earned it. The ones you didn't score well on, you "didn't deserve that grade". You need to eliminate the words "fair" and "deserved" from your vocabulary. The moment you decided to enter medicine you forfeited those ideas. Nobody gets what they deserve, and no part of the process is fair or equitable, especially in the Caribbean. A big part of medicine is managing risk, and sometimes that requires being callously realistic and objective about the future consequences of your present actions. As someone who's gone through the process at SGU myself, it doesn't seem like you're doing that.
    The "constant reminder of her greatness" is where I started to wonder about reality testing.
     
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    Sardinia

    @gyngyn @bedevilled ben Wouldn't the red flag be the material she decided to take a picture of on the white board.

    Is it just me or is it weird that Abnormal Psychology is a Foundations course.
     

    gyngyn

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    @gyngyn @bedevilled ben Wouldn't the red flag be the material she decided to take a picture of on the white board.

    Is it just me or is it weird that Abnormal Psychology is a Foundations course.
    Poor thing.
    I'm really not sure what to make of most of it. It makes me feel that her naivete is being taken advantage of, though.
     
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    Toutie

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    No. Poor thing.eI'm really not sure what to make of most of it. It makes me feel that her naivete is being taken advantage of, though.
    I was cringing reading her blog. She even set up a GoFundMe because she wasn't able to get a loan!???

    I didn't realize SGU and Ross even had these "pre-med" programs. Seems like just another way for them to separate naive/desperate people from their money when their chance of being successful in this program and continuing on in med school is fairly slim.

    I hope she keeps up her blog...not because I want to see her crash and burn...but because I'm really curious to follow her thought process through this. For her sake, I hope she is as successful as she aspires to be. I fear that will not be the case though. :(
     
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    Sardinia

    I was cringing reading her blog. She even set up a GoFundMe because she wasn't able to get a loan!??? I didn't realize SGU and Ross even had these "pre-med" programs. Seems like just another way for them to separate naive/desperate people from their money when their chance of being successful in this program and continuing on in med school is fairly slim. I hope she keeps up her blog...not because I want to see her crash and burn...but because I'm really curious to follow her thought process through this. For her sake, I hope she is as successful as she aspires to be. I fear that will not be the case though. :(

    The feeder programs are win-win for students and the school. However, it's more of a bigger win for the school because it allows them to defray accusations of preying on the weakest students while simultaneously enrolling said students into the program in order to see if they have the potential for drastic improvement.

    I think that the GoFundMe page is indicative for why students go through the Caribbean programs and are a reason as to why they are not as naive as @gyngyn thinks. I highly doubt that many of these applicants would still be in the program if they were successful enough financially to fund a large part of the process and a major reason as to why they still continue despite the many glaring stains on the wall.
     

    gyngyn

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    I think that the GoFundMe page is indicative for why students go through the Caribbean programs and are a reason as to why they are not as naive as @gyngyn thinks.
    But, just look at her writing. These are not the personal documents of a conniver...
     
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    Sardinia

    But, just look at her writing. These are not the personal documents of a conniver...

    You don't have to be a conniver to initiate bad plans with the understanding that the bad plan is going to have bad outcomes. However, being able to have to acumen to differentiate between the possibility of playing with bad outcomes versus the worst outcomes is a judgment call that only some people are able to make.

    I believe that medical school is one of the worst environments for someone to "grow up" in during their early to mid "20-s" unless they have a very good idea of what they are getting themselves into and being aware of the consequences.

    I really think that certain students deprive themselves by not facing the real world and the risk of having to transition a career from being that person with the biochemistry bachelor's working at McDonald's for minimum wage. Depending on the institution to assess your self-worth can be hard younger students especially because their identity is so closely tied with being a medical student.
     
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    gyngyn

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    You don't have to be a conniver to initiate bad plans with the understanding that the bad plan is going to have bad outcomes. However, being able to have to acumen to differentiate between the possibility of playing with bad outcomes versus the worst outcomes is a judgment call that only some people are able to make.
    I attribute her relentless optimism (against all odds) to naivete. There seems to be very little calculation at all.
     
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    Sardinia

    I attribute her relentless optimism (against all odds) to naivete. There seems to be very little calculation at all.

    I disagree. Getting a mediocre GPA in undergrad after 4 years means that there were several students in your class who were on the top and better than you. Excusing yourself for not being close to that cohort is denial, although we see plenty of that in SDN e.g. I had to work 30 hours a week and I did volunteer/research on top of that. Getting rejected first round of applications, talking to your pre-med counselor at your school, or looking at an MSAR should inform you that 98% of applicants do not get accepted and medical students are the exception to the rule. This isn't like graduate school or law school where they accept 20-30% of applicants. It's 2%.

    Failing to do well on a national examination that you can freely designate when to take the exam should be the nail in the coffin. Entertaining your own delusionals that all these factors matter very little to you is an outright denial of objectivity and an endorsement for special snowflake syndrome.
     

    gyngyn

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    I disagree. Getting a mediocre GPA in undergrad after 4 years means that there were several students in your class who were on the top and better than you. Excusing yourself for not being close to that cohort is denial, although we see plenty of that in SDN e.g. I had to work 30 hours a week and I did volunteer/research on top of that. Getting rejected first round of applications, talking to your pre-med counselor at your school, or looking at an MSAR should inform you that 98% of applicants do not get accepted and medical students are the exception to the rule. Failing to do well on a national examination that you can freely designate when to take the exam should be the nail in the coffin. Entertaining your own delusionals that all these factors matter very little to you is an outright denial of objectivity and an endorsement for special snowflake syndrome.
    This agrees with my contention that she entirely lacks calculation (clear, objective review of facts). She blissfully disregards facts in favor of baseless affirmations.
     
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    IslandStyle808

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    I was cringing reading her blog. She even set up a GoFundMe because she wasn't able to get a loan!???

    I didn't realize SGU and Ross even had these "pre-med" programs. Seems like just another way for them to separate naive/desperate people from their money when their chance of being successful in this program and continuing on in med school is fairly slim.

    I hope she keeps up her blog...not because I want to see her crash and burn...but because I'm really curious to follow her thought process through this. For her sake, I hope she is as successful as she aspires to be. I fear that will not be the case though. :(

    They have had them for years, look it up. These pre-med programs are no different than the ones in the US, they serve as an elevator to medical school. There are some in the US, where I feel they also prey on students naivety (the ones who set their GPA and MCAT floor too low). In the end, it is up to the student to do the research on the programs and which one will best get them to medical school. One could rather well in a US MD SMP, but not get in to any MD school.

    (No I am not advocating the caribbean in my post, just pointing out the importance of doing the research for any SMP/post-bacc.)
     

    the argus

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    I was cringing reading her blog. She even set up a GoFundMe because she wasn't able to get a loan!???

    I didn't realize SGU and Ross even had these "pre-med" programs. Seems like just another way for them to separate naive/desperate people from their money when their chance of being successful in this program and continuing on in med school is fairly slim.

    I hope she keeps up her blog...not because I want to see her crash and burn...but because I'm really curious to follow her thought process through this. For her sake, I hope she is as successful as she aspires to be. I fear that will not be the case though. :(
    Not sure about SGU, but Ross refunds the tuition in full if you fail MERP (Ross' premedical "prep" semester).

    Otherwise I can't personally comment on it's effectiveness because I didn't do it. From what people told me it basically is a slightly dumbed-down version of M1, where they try to gauge a person's capacity for success in medical school. The failure rate is pretty high I believe.
     
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    bedevilled ben

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    @gyngyn @bedevilled ben Wouldn't the red flag be the material she decided to take a picture of on the white board.

    Is it just me or is it weird that Abnormal Psychology is a Foundations course.

    It is weird, admittedly, and I say that as someone applying for psychiatry in the Match. I don't know when this became a part of the curriculum, but it almost certainly wasn't a part of the foundations courses while I was on the islands. I didn't go through Foundations myself, but I have two close friends that did. They said it wasn't fun, but it was also a far cry from MS1. I think the school panders to this idea to get buy-in from prelim students, and I think it's rubbing up against the boundaries of predatory recruitment my own self. I shiver at the very thought of my graduating institution being the subject of my own criticism, but there you have it.
     
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    Smiles91

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    I skimmed through your blog briefly. I'm not sure that anything I say will be considered, but I feel compelled to try. You really need to take a hard look at your situation and come to reality with what you're doing. SGU is not all butterflies and rose petals. These constant self-affirmations just reek of insecurity and doubt, and are setting you up for tremendous heartache. I'm telling you this with perfect certainty: there are times where you are going to fail in medical school. It may not be on exams, but it will happen. And you're going to fail your patients sometimes too. It's okay to be sad or insecure or fearful, those aren't necessarily bad things to be avoided. Sadness and failure are normal human experiences and can make your empathy for others more genuine. Insecurity and fear can push you to work just a little bit harder when you think you can't.

    You mentioned in one of your blog posts your exam grades. The ones you scored well, you felt that you earned it. The ones you didn't score well on, you "didn't deserve that grade". You need to eliminate the words "fair" and "deserved" from your vocabulary. The moment you decided to enter medicine you forfeited those ideas. Nobody gets what they deserve, and no part of the process is fair or equitable, especially in the Caribbean. A big part of medicine is managing risk, and sometimes that requires being callously realistic and objective about the future consequences of your present actions. As someone who's gone through the process at SGU myself, it doesn't seem like you're doing that.


    Hey guys... Just to clarify my blog, I'm primarily writing it for my family and friends who have supported me. I also wanted to use it to encourage others, perhaps they can see some of my mistakes or just be encouraged to push through obstacles. I made quite a few mistakes in undergrad which led me to SGU. The optimism is mostly for the sake of my family so they don't think I'm completely losing it (not that I am-completely, but its not all peaches and roses over here). I did read through everyones comments and I definitely agree with your assessments and I fully understand that the odds are against me and not for me. It never hurts to try and honestly, I get my money back if I realize (or they realize) that I am not cut out for this.
     
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    Sardinia

    Hey guys... Just to clarify my blog, I'm primarily writing it for my family and friends who have supported me. I also wanted to use it to encourage others, perhaps they can see some of my mistakes or just be encouraged to push through obstacles. I made quite a few mistakes in undergrad which led me to SGU. The optimism is mostly for the sake of my family so they don't think I'm completely losing it (not that I am-completely, but its not all peaches and roses over here). I did read through everyones comments and I definitely agree with your assessments and I fully understand that the odds are against me and not for me. It never hurts to try and honestly, I get my money back if I realize (or they realize) that I am not cut out for this.

    Good luck on your exams and I hope you pass the SGU curriculum as a whole. I'm sorry if I came across as negative and honestly do hope you make it to the end of the road.
     
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    cassis_Cake

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    Hey guys... Just to clarify my blog, I'm primarily writing it for my family and friends who have supported me. I also wanted to use it to encourage others, perhaps they can see some of my mistakes or just be encouraged to push through obstacles. I made quite a few mistakes in undergrad which led me to SGU. The optimism is mostly for the sake of my family so they don't think I'm completely losing it (not that I am-completely, but its not all peaches and roses over here). I did read through everyones comments and I definitely agree with your assessments and I fully understand that the odds are against me and not for me. It never hurts to try and honestly, I get my money back if I realize (or they realize) that I am not cut out for this.

    Best of luck!
     
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    Smiles91

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    Good luck on your exams and I hope you pass the SGU curriculum as a whole. I'm sorry if I came across as negative and honestly do hope you make it to the end of the road.

    thanks so much! I didn't take you as negative. People should be honest, speak reality, and not sugar coat things, I actually appreciate your candor!
     

    tickytacky

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    I just found this forum and want to butt in and say that even in a "Big 4" caribbean school you have 15% (in mine at least) of applicants who do not match into residency programs. In a class of 200 that is 30 people who are stranded with a 6 figure loan. Whether or not you want to bet that you will not be one of those 30 is a very real consideration. I matched this year but I was in that spot last year and it was just an entire year of intense anxiety. You really have to know where you stand in relation to your peers. All 200 0f those people are fighting to NOT be the bottom 30 that don't match. My experience on the island was great, supportive classmates and all, but competition just gets fiercer and fiercer every year. Good luck to you all.
     

    Conejito

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    It never hurts to try and honestly, I get my money back if I realize (or they realize) that I am not cut out for this.
    All the tours I went on to the schools in the states really turned me off but meeting Caribbean grads really impressed me. Especially when I found out my own doctor was a caribbean graduate

    WOW reading through this thread and realizing the whipping they've heaved upon you is unbelievable. If I were you, I'd be crying right about now. Don't listen to the naysayers. If you have your mind set on being a doctor you will. Think and you will achieve.

    A little bit about me and hope it helps you. I dropped out of high school at age 16. I was lost academically for years. I worked as a security guard and taxi driver. I eventually got an adult education diploma. In time, I went to college. Community College that is!!!!

    I received a transfer scholarship to FIU and graduated from FIU with a 3.97 GPA in sociology and biology. I received the 3 highest distinctions (Summa Cum Laude, Phi Beta Kappa and the Honors College ). I have an automatic interview with FIU MED SCHOOL.

    If there would have been a valedictorian it would have been me. I went through my graduating class list of 3127 students. I counted each one, one by one in groups of 10 and realized I was the only one to receive those 3 highest distinctions. There were only about 60 students who received 1 or 2 and I was the only one to receive all 3. Why post this?

    I was given loads of psychologically detrimental information. The same type of inspirational advice I've read on this thread I received in different forms. Many of it came from snobby elitist passengers in the taxi. They told me to buy a cab. Others gave me time advice as in time has passed you by. It made me sad and at times I believed it. All this happened prior to my academic accomplishments. I feel invincible now because I have the tools to succeed.

    Was it easy? No it wasn't. I suffered to be a student once again. I studied through Xmas and Spring Break. I did not know what clubs were or school activities. I did learn the best places to hide out in the library though, LOL.

    The short of it is if this high school dropout can make it to the doors of med school, certainly you will make it through with your minor score issues. Don't listen to the hogwash. You're not being asked to reconcile quantum mechanics and the theory of relativity. You're just being asked to be a doctor. Thousands have done it before and thousands will follow you once you achieve your goals and objectives.
     
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    ... or for people like me who would rather go to school in a less cut throat environment.

    You are in for a rude awakening, my dear. Sorry to have to say that. Keeping a stiff upper lip is better than wearing rose-colored glasses.

    -Skip
     
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    Hey guys... Just to clarify my blog, I'm primarily writing it for my family and friends who have supported me. I also wanted to use it to encourage others, perhaps they can see some of my mistakes or just be encouraged to push through obstacles. I made quite a few mistakes in undergrad which led me to SGU. The optimism is mostly for the sake of my family so they don't think I'm completely losing it (not that I am-completely, but its not all peaches and roses over here). I did read through everyones comments and I definitely agree with your assessments and I fully understand that the odds are against me and not for me. It never hurts to try and honestly, I get my money back if I realize (or they realize) that I am not cut out for this.

    You took your blog down. What happened? Did you succeed in the Foundations course?

    -Skip
     

    PossibleDOC?

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    WOW reading through this thread and realizing the whipping they've heaved upon you is unbelievable. If I were you, I'd be crying right about now. Don't listen to the naysayers. If you have your mind set on being a doctor you will. Think and you will achieve.

    A little bit about me and hope it helps you. I dropped out of high school at age 16. I was lost academically for years. I worked as a security guard and taxi driver. I eventually got an adult education diploma. In time, I went to college. Community College that is!!!!

    I received a transfer scholarship to FIU and graduated from FIU with a 3.97 GPA in sociology and biology. I received the 3 highest distinctions (Summa Cum Laude, Phi Beta Kappa and the Honors College ). I have an automatic interview with FIU MED SCHOOL.

    If there would have been a valedictorian it would have been me. I went through my graduating class list of 3127 students. I counted each one, one by one in groups of 10 and realized I was the only one to receive those 3 highest distinctions. There were only about 60 students who received 1 or 2 and I was the only one to receive all 3. Why post this?

    I was given loads of psychologically detrimental information. The same type of inspirational advice I've read on this thread I received in different forms. Many of it came from snobby elitist passengers in the taxi. They told me to buy a cab. Others gave me time advice as in time has passed you by. It made me sad and at times I believed it. All this happened prior to my academic accomplishments. I feel invincible now because I have the tools to succeed.

    Was it easy? No it wasn't. I suffered to be a student once again. I studied through Xmas and Spring Break. I did not know what clubs were or school activities. I did learn the best places to hide out in the library though, LOL.

    The short of it is if this high school dropout can make it to the doors of med school, certainly you will make it through with your minor score issues. Don't listen to the hogwash. You're not being asked to reconcile quantum mechanics and the theory of relativity. You're just being asked to be a doctor. Thousands have done it before and thousands will follow you once you achieve your goals and objectives.



    Your story, while inspiration in its own way to people I am assuming, is not all that relevant, you are a reinvention candidate meaning you F'ed up early and reinvented your life essentially. Its great that you did but typical premeds who went through school have it much harder trying to do as you did since we have over 100 credits and we F'd up during them and not before where gpa wasn't a factor. Again its a great story but usually carib students go because you can't mathematically recover from a 2.8 or 2.7 in a year (needs like 4 to get it to that coveted 3.7/3.8 for MD lol) in your case you had no GPA so it was downhill from there for you once you started school.

    Not taking away from your story please believe me i'm just saying that already established premeds have a VERY different path and if they live in an "unlucky" state its even tougher.

    Best of luck
     

    Conejito

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    You took your blog down. What happened? Did you succeed in the Foundations course?

    -Skip
    LOL and you guys are surprised. The last time Smiles posted was in April. You guys ripped up the poor kid to shreds. Many here have such a negative view of reality.

    Instead of using destructive criticism you could have used constructive criticism. Without sugarcoating the process, you could have told her the truth. If the process is so horrendous, then you could offer your personal time to help smooth it out.

    It's pretty obvious from reading the advice that's doled you guys do not have PhDs in education or psychology. You might be MDs but you are severely lacking in pedagogical content.

    This pick yourself up by yourbootstrap mentality has proven to be false. Smiles91 was right. There are medical schools that are more accommodating. There are med schools which use the latest pedagogical methodologies which center around team based learning and collaboration.

    I await the ripping to begin.
     
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    bionsa

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    LOL and you guys are surprised. The last time Smiles posted was in April. You guys ripped up the poor kid to shreds. Many here have such a negative view of reality.

    Instead of using destructive criticism you could have used constructive criticism. Without sugarcoating the process, you could have told her the truth. If the process is so horrendous, then you could offer your personal time to help smooth it out.

    It's pretty obvious from reading the advice that's doled you guys do not have PhDs in education or psychology. You might be MDs but you are severely lacking in pedagogical content.

    This pick yourself up by yourbootstrap mentality has proven to be false. Smiles91 was right. There are medical schools that are more accommodating. There are med schools which use the latest pedagogical methodologies which center around team based learning and collaboration.

    I await the ripping to begin.
    LOL and you guys are surprised. The last time Smiles posted was in April. You guys ripped up the poor kid to shreds. Many here have such a negative view of reality.

    Instead of using destructive criticism you could have used constructive criticism. Without sugarcoating the process, you could have told her the truth. If the process is so horrendous, then you could offer your personal time to help smooth it out.

    It's pretty obvious from reading the advice that's doled you guys do not have PhDs in education or psychology. You might be MDs but you are severely lacking in pedagogical content.

    This pick yourself up by yourbootstrap mentality has proven to be false. Smiles91 was right. There are medical schools that are more accommodating. There are med schools which use the latest pedagogical methodologies which center around team based learning and collaboration.

    I await the ripping to begin.

    Agreed and perfectly conveyed. :thumbup:
     
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    LOL and you guys are surprised. The last time Smiles posted was in April. You guys ripped up the poor kid to shreds.

    Well, you quoted me yet I hope you don't include me in the "you guys". I didn't respond to any of her posts until yesterday and I certainly didn't "rip her to shreds". Still, you cannot be Pollyanna going into this. If you don't already have a thick skin, you will either develop one quickly... or you will get crushed.

    At this point, I just want to know what happened. I have previously stated my opinion on these types of 'pre-med' weeding-out courses. I think those that survive them would've done fine going directly into their medical school.

    So, I'm just curious about what happened to her. That's all.

    -Skip
     

    sunset57

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    Well, you quoted me yet I hope you don't include me in the "you guys". I didn't respond to any of her posts until yesterday and I certainly didn't "rip her to shreds". Still, you cannot be Pollyanna going into this. If you don't already have a thick skin, you will either develop one quickly... or you will get crushed.

    At this point, I just want to know what happened. I have previously stated my opinion on these types of 'pre-med' weeding-out courses. I think those that survive them would've done fine going directly into their medical school.

    So, I'm just curious about what happened to her. That's all.

    -Skip
    I think her last blog post was March.

    Also curious...
     

    bedevilled ben

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    LOL and you guys are surprised. The last time Smiles posted was in April. You guys ripped up the poor kid to shreds. Many here have such a negative view of reality.

    Instead of using destructive criticism you could have used constructive criticism. Without sugarcoating the process, you could have told her the truth. If the process is so horrendous, then you could offer your personal time to help smooth it out.

    It's pretty obvious from reading the advice that's doled you guys do not have PhDs in education or psychology. You might be MDs but you are severely lacking in pedagogical content.

    This pick yourself up by yourbootstrap mentality has proven to be false. Smiles91 was right. There are medical schools that are more accommodating. There are med schools which use the latest pedagogical methodologies which center around team based learning and collaboration.

    I await the ripping to begin.

    Medicine is one of the few professions left that has gated "hard-failures" baked directly into the education process. There are certain metrics that you simply *must* be able to meet in order to move forward in the process, and those metrics are on a hard-timer that you have very little control over. When you're pushing up against those edges, it doesn't matter how much you "want it," and sometimes your best simply isn't good enough. A PhD-level mathematician can take 8 years to finish her dissertation, and nobody would bat an eye. You can't take a year or two off in medicine to "study up" to prepare yourself to move on. You can't just take a break in the middle of your residency because you need a vacation. You have a very limited amount of time to learn and a vast amount of information to assimilate, process, and then regurgitate and apply in useful form. And no matter how much you learn, your superiors are always going to be pushing you to do more in less time. Medical education is hectic. I'm sorry if this advice is too "destructive," but if a couple of rando's on the internet are enough to make somebody quiver in their boots, they have Virtually. No. Chance. At finishing their medical training.
     
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    IslandStyle808

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    Medicine is one of the few professions left that has gated "hard-failures" baked directly into the education process. There are certain metrics that you simply *must* be able to meet in order to move forward in the process, and those metrics are on a hard-timer that you have very little control over. When you're pushing up against those edges, it doesn't matter how much you "want it," and sometimes your best simply isn't good enough. A PhD-level mathematician can take 8 years to finish her dissertation, and nobody would bat an eye. You can't take a year or two off in medicine to "study up" to prepare yourself to move on. You can't just take a break in the middle of your residency because you need a vacation. You have a very limited amount of time to learn and a vast amount of information to assimilate, process, and then regurgitate and apply in useful form. And no matter how much you learn, your superiors are always going to be pushing you to do more in less time. Medical education is hectic. I'm sorry if this advice is too "destructive," but if a couple of rando's on the internet are enough to make somebody quiver in their boots, they have Virtually. No. Chance. At finishing their medical training.

    I agree with your point, but not your analogy. You take more than seven years in many of the US PhD program, you get kicked out. The pressure of a PhD are different from the pressures of MD. MDs don't have to deal with grants not coming through and have to deal with PhD PIs that say sayonara to their PhD students when a better job offer comes about. This is why PhD degree cannot be time intensive as medical schools are. Thus the culture is more accepting of time variations amongst graduating students. You are still on a hard-timer in graduate school none the less, just a more lenient one.
     
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    Many U.S. medical students will take the year off between their 3rd and 4th year of medical school. There are various reasons they do this. Some professional, some personal.

    The "hard failures" are not passing the Steps, not getting into residency on the first try, and failing to get a medical license. Once you're in and you've gotten your card, there are still hard stops (e.g., being sued for malpractice, being reported to a medical board, having a sanction or black mark on your NPDB tracing, etc). These are all real landmines along your lifelong journey in medicine.

    The difference now? The public and those you serve no longer care about how hard you worked to get where you are. Couple that with the fact that you have all manner of under-trained and under-qualified "providers" competing with you for their piece of the pie to take care your patients. And, that's happening too because "someone" perceives they need to stem the looming doctor shortage... with people who will do half the job you're capable of at half the cost. It's depressing, actually.

    If you miss the "soft stops" along the timeline, your journey is going to get a lot tougher. Hit a landmine and you're done. All the while, you have people less trained and less qualified running past you.

    -Skip

    (P.S. It never ends.)
     
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    Sardinia

    @Smiles91 If you still use this site, please check your private messages. It is in your best interest to better protect your personal privacy.
     

    Dr. Mike

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    So, I cannot decide- SGU, AUC, Saba, or Ross (i.e. The big four). I got into all of them and I've read this forum post and every other I could find, as well as compared their sites, and they basically all seem the same... Saba is cheaper, AUC is on St. Martin, St. George's has been around longer, blah blah blah. One doesn't "fit me" more than another. None of those reasons seem to satisfy the important one: assuming I do just as well at each of them, which school will be most competitive in finding residency. All the "stats" on match rates seem skewed. I can't find a majority opinion and I can't seem to find reliable stats, so my best answer so far is it's a crapshoot. Ugh. Anyone have any better answers?
     
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    bedevilled ben

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    So, I cannot decide- SGU, AUC, Saba, or Ross (i.e. The big four). I got into all of them and I've read this forum post and every other I could find, as well as compared their sites, and they basically all seem the same... Saba is cheaper, AUC is on St. Martin, St. George's has been around longer, blah blah blah. One doesn't "fit me" more than another. None of those reasons seem to satisfy the important one: assuming I do just as well at each of them, which school will be most competitive in finding residency. All the "stats" on match rates seem skewed. I can't find a majority opinion and I can't seem to find reliable stats, so my best answer so far is it's a crapshoot. Ugh. Anyone have any better answers?

    SGU and Ross have the highest placement rates. SGU and Ross have the most name recognition in the US. SGU and Ross have guaranteed clinical placement in years MS3 and MS4. SGU is stupid expensive. Ross is less expensive. As of 4 years ago when I was there, Grenada (SGU) had a better quality of life and nicer campus compared to Dominica (Ross). If you are a motivated and self-directed learner, SGU and Ross will give pretty equal odds of matching in the US essentially. Some of this is backed up with data from the Charting the Outcomes 2014, some of this is based on direct experience with the schools, and some of this is based on my personal experience working in recruitment at my current program (which draws pretty heavily from DO/IMG/FMG's for residency spots).

    My personal opinion is that there is no defensible reason to choose a Caribbean school other than SGU or Ross. I say that as a recent SGU grad that successfully navigated each step in the process without delays or red flags, and secured my top choice for residency in the Match. I am however, obviously not a program director or an expert (in anything.)
     
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    Dr. Mike

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    SGU and Ross have the highest placement rates. SGU and Ross have the most name recognition in the US. SGU and Ross have guaranteed clinical placement in years MS3 and MS4. SGU is stupid expensive. Ross is less expensive. As of 4 years ago when I was there, Grenada (SGU) had a better quality of life and nicer campus compared to Dominica (Ross). If you are a motivated and self-directed learner, SGU and Ross will give pretty equal odds of matching in the US essentially. Some of this is backed up with data from the Charting the Outcomes 2014, some of this is based on direct experience with the schools, and some of this is based on my personal experience working in recruitment at my current program (which draws pretty heavily from DO/IMG/FMG's for residency spots).

    My personal opinion is that there is no defensible reason to choose a Caribbean school other than SGU or Ross. I say that as a recent SGU grad that successfully navigated each step in the process without delays or red flags, and secured my top choice for residency in the Match. I am however, obviously not a program director or an expert (in anything.)

    Wow, thank you so much for all the info. Residency is so much more important than anything else regardless of an extra 20k or even 100k for that matter. So far it's SGU, but still looking into it. Thank you again
     
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    the argus

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    SGU and Ross have the highest placement rates. SGU and Ross have the most name recognition in the US. SGU and Ross have guaranteed clinical placement in years MS3 and MS4. SGU is stupid expensive. Ross is less expensive. As of 4 years ago when I was there, Grenada (SGU) had a better quality of life and nicer campus compared to Dominica (Ross). If you are a motivated and self-directed learner, SGU and Ross will give pretty equal odds of matching in the US essentially. Some of this is backed up with data from the Charting the Outcomes 2014, some of this is based on direct experience with the schools, and some of this is based on my personal experience working in recruitment at my current program (which draws pretty heavily from DO/IMG/FMG's for residency spots).

    My personal opinion is that there is no defensible reason to choose a Caribbean school other than SGU or Ross. I say that as a recent SGU grad that successfully navigated each step in the process without delays or red flags, and secured my top choice for residency in the Match. I am however, obviously not a program director or an expert (in anything.)
    As a recent Ross grad I agree 100% with this post. The education received and opportunities for residency are basically the same from either. I just read about each island and decided which one I thought I would enjoy living on more. One other consideration is that at Ross you can be done on the island in 16 months (now considered the "accelerated" track, when I was there it was just the normal curriculum), whereas I believe at SGU you are on island for 2 whole academic years, although you get summers off. If you do the 16 month Ross track you get a few weeks off between semesters but no extended breaks.
     
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    Dr. Mike

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    As a recent Ross grad I agree 100% with this post. The education received and opportunities for residency are basically the same from either. I just read about each island and decided which one I thought I would enjoy living on more. One other consideration is that at Ross you can be done on the island in 16 months (now considered the "accelerated" track, when I was there it was just the normal curriculum), whereas I believe at SGU you are on island for 2 whole academic years, although you get summers off. If you do the 16 month Ross track you get a few weeks off between semesters but no extended breaks.
    So just to be clear, you would also say that Ross and SGU are better choices than Saba and AUC? Also because you believe they have higher placement rates and name recognition?
     

    bedevilled ben

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    One other consideration is that at Ross you can be done on the island in 16 months (now considered the "accelerated" track, when I was there it was just the normal curriculum), whereas I believe at SGU you are on island for 2 whole academic years, although you get summers off. If you do the 16 month Ross track you get a few weeks off between semesters but no extended breaks.

    So that truly is an accelerated track, then. That's one interesting and notable difference. SGU has tried to bill its January class as "accelerated" which I guess theoretically could save you 3-4 months if you were willing to travel all around the US for clinical rotations and organize everything yourself. To date I don't know a single SGU student that's successfully done that, but if Ross has actually shaved down the breaks between then that has perhaps more interesting ramifications and makes starting in a January class more appealing.
     
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