SGU Vs. ROSS Vs. AUA Vs. AUC Vs. SABA Vs. MUA

[PossibleDOC?]

So just to be clear, you would also say that Ross and SGU are better choices than Saba and AUC? Also because you believe they have higher placement rates and name recognition?

Ross and SGU have the most connections and $$ to throw around for rotation spots so you'd be better served going there since you're committed to the caribbean. May sure you knock your step scores out of the park though, that merger in 2020 could go either way....make it tougher for IMGs or keep it the same just food for thought

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[Dr. Mike]

^^ thank you very much I posted a separate thread about it, but I recently heard Australian and Irish schools are more respected than Caribbean...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/which-australian-and-irish-schools-to-apply-to.1224949/

 

[PossibleDOC?]

^^ thank you very much I posted a separate thread about it, but I recently heard Australian and Irish schools are more respected than Caribbean...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/which-australian-and-irish-schools-to-apply-to.1224949/

Caribbean is the more direct route, knew a girl who went to Australia and decided to stay there because it was harder to come back than the carib she had family there though so the decision was easier but yea i wouldn't do it

 

[Skip Intro]

^^ thank you very much I posted a separate thread about it, but I recently heard Australian and Irish schools are more respected than Caribbean...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/which-australian-and-irish-schools-to-apply-to.1224949/

Not necessarily true. You are still considered a USIMG. And, getting U.S. clinical rotations in 3rd and 4th year are probably more important than going to the caliber of European school that accepts U.S. citizens who weren't able to secure a spot back home (i.e., is equally willing to take their money).

-Skip

 

[mcat_taker]

^^ thank you very much I posted a separate thread about it, but I recently heard Australian and Irish schools are more respected than Caribbean...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/which-australian-and-irish-schools-to-apply-to.1224949/

Irish schools are just as hard to get into as many U.S. med schools (probably selectively on par with good D.O schools). Australian schools love international full fee paying tuition dollars (you pay a lot more than the domestic students) and therefore they are much easier to get into for internationals. That being said, you would be hard pressed getting into even Australian schools with a 494 MCAT and you can forget about Ireland with an MCAT that low. Australian and Irish schools weigh the MCAT most heavily because it is the easiest way to compare applicants. To compare your MCAT score to some Australian schools. UQ requires a minimum 496 and Sydney requires a minimum 500 for an interview for internationals.

I've lurked around these boards for a long time when I was a premed and I couldn't be happier with my decision to go Australia over the caribbean. I'm in the UQ-Ochsner program which guarantees 3rd and 4th year rotation sites in the U.S. at Ochsner health system in New Orleans. The match rate is around 93% while step 1 scores are still slightly below the U.S. average but improving I think. The admissions criteria is selectively on par with schools like SGU (B average gpa, 26 minimum mcat to apply) so I could never understand why more people didn't look into the program (Altho in recent years it has become a bit more competitive, last year was the first year they did interviews, minimum mcat just increased a bit as well from 24 to 26 on old MCAT and 499 on new as of last year). Even so, the class fills several months before the start of term. And there are plenty of kids in my class who had offers to DO schools and came here instead to end up as IMGs. Honestly its great being in classes with some of the best and brightest in Australia and the U.S. and Canadian students are no slouches either.

That all being said, I have plenty of friends that did the carib option successfully and I respect anyone that went through it, but it just wasn't for me. I didn't think I would do well in that cutthroat attrition heavy environment with those huge classes. Happy I came here instead! Not saying I will definitely be successful, I'm only a second term student but I like it so far. I urge you to look at Australian schools as well as carib schools. I had very mediocre stats and I got into 3 Australian schools 2 of which are ranked in the top 50 worldwide

 

[Dr. Mike]

Irish schools are just as hard to get into as many U.S. med schools (probably selectively on par with good D.O schools). Australian schools love international full fee paying tuition dollars (you pay a lot more than the domestic students) and therefore they are much easier to get into for internationals. That being said, you would be hard pressed getting into even Australian schools with a 494 MCAT and you can forget about Ireland with an MCAT that low. Australian and Irish schools weigh the MCAT most heavily because it is the easiest way to compare applicants. To compare your MCAT score to some Australian schools. UQ requires a minimum 496 and Sydney requires a minimum 500 for an interview for internationals.

I've lurked around these boards for a long time when I was a premed and I couldn't be happier with my decision to go Australia over the caribbean. I'm in the UQ-Ochsner program which guarantees 3rd and 4th year rotation sites in the U.S. at Ochsner health system in New Orleans. The match rate is around 93% while step 1 scores are still slightly below the U.S. average but improving I think. The admissions criteria is selectively on par with schools like SGU (B average gpa, 26 minimum mcat to apply) so I could never understand why more people didn't look into the program (Altho in recent years it has become a bit more competitive, last year was the first year they did interviews, minimum mcat just increased a bit as well from 24 to 26 on old MCAT and 499 on new as of last year). Even so, the class fills several months before the start of term. And there are plenty of kids in my class who had offers to DO schools and came here instead to end up as IMGs. Honestly its great being in classes with some of the best and brightest in Australia and the U.S. and Canadian students are no slouches either.

That all being said, I have plenty of friends that did the carib option successfully and I respect anyone that went through it, but it just wasn't for me. I didn't think I would do well in that cutthroat attrition heavy environment with those huge classes. Happy I came here instead! Not saying I will definitely be successful, I'm only a second term student but I like it so far. I urge you to look at Australian schools as well as carib schools. I had very mediocre stats and I got into 3 Australian schools 2 of which are ranked in the top 50 worldwide

Wow, very helpful post. Thank you so much. I hope Saba university might be better with a 80 person class that I'm looking to join, but yes very cutthroat and 25% attrition rate! Anyways, I appreciate the input

 

[the argus]

Wow, very helpful post. Thank you so much. I hope Saba university might be better with a 80 person class that I'm looking to join, but yes very cutthroat and 25% attrition rate! Anyways, I appreciate the input

Caribbean schools are not cutthroat, the high attrition rate stems from the fact that they accept basically anyone.

When I was at Ross at least, the MPS (minimum passing score) for each block was calculated by using the bottom certain percent of scores (bottom 10% if I remember corectly). If your score was below that percentile, you would fail. There was also an upper limit for the MPS, so if the bottom 10% was above that upper limit, the MPS would stay at the predetermined upper limit. So it's not that they always fail out a certain percentage of students. If everyone performs well and ends up above the predetermined MPS, no one fails.

The high attrition is because there are a lot of people that are accepted that unfortunately have no business in medical school. The Caribbean schools give people a chance to prove themselves, and a significant percentage aren't able to do that.

 

[Dr. Mike]

Caribbean schools are not cutthroat, the high attrition rate stems from the fact that they accept basically anyone.

When I was at Ross at least, the MPS (minimum passing score) for each block was calculated by using the bottom certain percent of scores (bottom 10% if I remember corectly). If your score was below that percentile, you would fail. There was also an upper limit for the MPS, so if the bottom 10% was above that upper limit, the MPS would stay at the predetermined upper limit. So it's not that they always fail out a certain percentage of students. If everyone performs well and ends up above the predetermined MPS, no one fails.

The high attrition is because there are a lot of people that are accepted that unfortunately have no business in medical school. The Caribbean schools give people a chance to prove themselves, and a significant percentage aren't able to do that.

Makes sense to me. Are you in residency?

 

[mcat_taker]

Wow, very helpful post. Thank you so much. I hope Saba university might be better with a 80 person class that I'm looking to join, but yes very cutthroat and 25% attrition rate! Anyways, I appreciate the input

I want you to pursue your dream and do med whether its in Australia or the caribbean, but I'm concerned about you succeeding with a 494 mcat even if your grades are pretty good. Med school is really really hard man (I'm living it right now and I'm nowhere near the top of the class). And honestly, theres no reason you shouldn't be breaking at least 50th percentile on the MCAT. The fact that you studied 9 months for it and scored that low is a red flag cause it doesn't get easier in med school. I hope you know what you are getting yourself into.

I hated the MCAT also, took it 3 times, the old one and the new one, so I know the feeling, but honestly its the only way to measure how good you are cause the tests only get harder and you have nothing else to go by.

And thats the last I'm gonna say about it because I'm sure you've gotten the same advice and your sick of it. But I wouldn't feel right if I didn't give you my thoughts about your score and chances of success. At least if you could pull the mcat up a bit and get yourself into an Australian school the attrition is much lower.

 

[Dr. Mike]

I want you to pursue your dream and do med whether its in Australia or the caribbean, but I'm concerned about you succeeding with a 494 mcat even if your grades are pretty good. Med school is really really hard man (I'm living it right now and I'm nowhere near the top of the class). And honestly, theres no reason you shouldn't be breaking at least 50th percentile on the MCAT. The fact that you studied 9 months for it and scored that low is a red flag cause it doesn't get easier in med school. I hope you know what you are getting yourself into.

I hated the MCAT also, took it 3 times, the old one and the new one, so I know the feeling, but honestly its the only way to measure how good you are cause the tests only get harder and you have nothing else to go by.

And thats the last I'm gonna say about it because I'm sure you've gotten the same advice and your sick of it. But I wouldn't feel right if I didn't give you my thoughts about your score and chances of success. At least if you could pull the mcat up a bit and get yourself into an Australian school the attrition is much lower.

I will PM you. This is a bit more personal and don't want everyone starting to know my whole life story lol. (I mean we're mostly all anonymous, but a lot of replys in this case is not necessary).

 

[Conejito]

The difference now? The public and those you serve no longer care about how hard you worked to get where you are. Couple that with the fact that you have all manner of under-trained and under-qualified "providers" competing with you for their piece of the pie to take care your patients. And, that's happening too because "someone" perceives they need to stem the looming doctor shortage... with people who will do half the job you're capable of at half the cost. It's depressing, actually.

I guess by underqualified providers you mean NPs and PAs? Many doctors told me to take that backdoor instead of wasting (their words) my time in med school.

More than one physician and one in particular who has 7 PAs under her told me it's the best option. The best bang for your buck.

She told me that a 150 grand salary as a PA beats the decades it takes to become an MD and pay off the ridiculous amount of debt accumulated. Here in Florida you can go to Miami Dade CC and get into PA school.

 

[Conejito]

Agreed and perfectly conveyed.

Thanks. The kid still isn't out the gate and he/she is already receiving the tongue lashing of a lifetime. Talk about breaking someone down.

Reminds me of a college professor with plenty of published papers and generally upset and frustrated stating the first day of class how half of us would not be there at semester's end.

She got her self-fulfilling prophecy alright. What is about the middle aged and elderly that believe that destroying one's ego will bring out the best?

The latest PhD papers in pedagogical content and psychology continue to reaffirm what introductory textbooks on the same state. Positive reinforcement works. Negative doesn't.

The curmudgeons here believe otherwise and there are plenty here. I hope the OP took the lashing as of no consequence. We still haven't heard from her and probably won't.

 

[veebo]

I guess by underqualified providers you mean NPs and PAs? Many doctors told me to take that backdoor instead of wasting (their words) my time in med school.

More than one physician and one in particular who has 7 PAs under her told me it's the best option. The best bang for your buck.

She told me that a 150 grand salary as a PA beats the decades it takes to become an MD and pay off the ridiculous amount of debt accumulated. Here in Florida you can go to Miami Dade CC and get into PA school.

Who takes decades to become an MD?

 

[Conejito]

Who takes decades to become an MD?

I was factoring in the years it takes to pay back the loans if you make paying back your number 1 priority. When it's all said and done 20 years will have passed before you start making real money.

 

[PKU]

I just went through this thread and it seems to me a lot of people are making statements when they have no right to do so. Sure we can look at match stats for USA and Canada as a carribean grad, but remember, those are just numbers. Do you know the stats of the students that were in the match that didn't get matched? Do you know why carribean attrition rates are high? It's because carribean schools virtually accept any student that can pay. 1/3 of the students in my friends class this year at Saba had UG <3.0 gpas. The other 1/3 had an UG gpa of 3.0-3.3, and the remaining had an UG of 3.4-3.6. Now tell me, how many students do you think will dropout?

Lastly, if you're not a PD for a residency program, you really shouldn't be talking about chances as an IMG. I emailed two of the PD's at top Toronto hospitals that have residency programs and they both told me that "we accept a lot of carribean grads every cycle". Now guess who those carribean grads are. They are usually the ones that would do well in Canadian/USA medical schools, but couldn't get in because of the insane competiveness in those countries.

Yes it's difficult to match as an IMG, but it's only difficult for those that don't belong in medical school in the first place but are lucky enough that there are carribean schools willing to take them.

 

[IslandStyle808]

They have had them for years, look it up. These pre-med programs are no different than the ones in the US, they serve as an elevator to medical school. There are some in the US, where I feel they also prey on students naivety (the ones who set their GPA and MCAT floor too low). In the end, it is up to the student to do the research on the programs and which one will best get them to medical school. One could rather well in a US MD SMP, but not get in to any MD school.

(No I am not advocating the caribbean in my post, just pointing out the importance of doing the research for any SMP/post-bacc.)

Its more true than I originally thought...