ok so i'm a first semester freshman. i didn't try at all this semester, and will end up with a gpa b/w 0.9-1.3. at this point should i just quit dreams fo medical school, or should i try? thanks
should i even try?
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Not gonna lie, that's pretty bad for freshman year. But where there's a will, there's a way. Don't give up yet. Re-take classes in which you got lower than a C and move on from there. If you go DO, you can use grade replacement to raise your GPA.
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Never give up on your dreams bro, I know it sounds cliche and corny, but it's true. Try to see what you did wrong this semester, meet with advisors, and come up with a new game plan.
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I'm not sure about TMDAS, but AMCAS will include all of your grades when calculating your GPA. So your first semester grades will be calculated into your GPA, but adcoms will look at your GPA trend as well. If you can improve your grades as you progress through college, then they may overlook your poor performance early on. Use the AMCAS GPA calculator (its on SDN somewhere) to see what you'll need to get for the rest of college in order to pull your GPA up to a 3.4 or so (I don't know if you'll be able to go any higher than that in 4 years).
In addition, even if your undergraduate performance on its own isn't enough to get you into medical school, there are always SMPs and post-bacc programs you can try.
Also I think you said in your first post why your grades were so low: you didn't try at all. While that is a common mindset that freshmen have, the truth is that you will have to try in your classes now. Especially when you get to classes like o-chem or biochem, you will need to put in a few hours per week in order to keep up and still do well in the class. But it's still doable, and with frequent trips to office hours/TA help rooms/etc, you can do just as well as anyone else.
EDIT: where you went for undergrad doesn't matter quite as much, as long as your performance is as strong as you can make it, and as long as you show that you really used the opportunities your state school provided to their full advantage.
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Allopathic schools don't allow grade replacement. If you take a class twice they count both grades. osteopathic schools do allow repolacement, if you take a class twice they count the most recent grade.
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never give up on a dream. if you don't want to do medicine, don't, but if you know you want to be a doctor for sure..., do awesome, retake some classes, and at least apply DO
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So how does that work, they calculate in both grades for your GPA?
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OP
I would suggest that your focus right now should not be so much "I want to get into medical school." From everything you have said, it sounds like you are having a bit of a hard time adjusting to college academics. That should be where you focus your efforts right now, That will include developing the habits that will make you an efficient and successful student, figuring out how best you learn, developing the self discipline and all that stuff.
Another suggestion, until you have all of the above figured out, I would avoid the actual med school prereqs. Take intro/basic classes (Bio, Physics, Chem etc) and others and use them for practice so to speak until you catch your groove and know what works for you. That way you go into your prereq and upper level classes ready to own them.
Anyways, just my $0.02. Goodluck!!
I would suggest that your focus right now should not be so much "I want to get into medical school." From everything you have said, it sounds like you are having a bit of a hard time adjusting to college academics. That should be where you focus your efforts right now, That will include developing the habits that will make you an efficient and successful student, figuring out how best you learn, developing the self discipline and all that stuff.
Another suggestion, until you have all of the above figured out, I would avoid the actual med school prereqs. Take intro/basic classes (Bio, Physics, Chem etc) and others and use them for practice so to speak until you catch your groove and know what works for you. That way you go into your prereq and upper level classes ready to own them.
Anyways, just my $0.02. Goodluck!!
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OP imma lay it straight, that's a really bad GPA and the worst I've heard of.
In order for you to even have a chance, you'll have to retake (for DO) or literally get 4.0s every semester from now on. You pretty much shot yourself in the foot "by not caring" enough. If you had extenuating circumstances, that's one thing, but not caring enough is not even worth a reason.
I might be the only harsh one here, but if you continue to party and game on then the whole pre-med path will not work for you.
In order for you to even have a chance, you'll have to retake (for DO) or literally get 4.0s every semester from now on. You pretty much shot yourself in the foot "by not caring" enough. If you had extenuating circumstances, that's one thing, but not caring enough is not even worth a reason.
I might be the only harsh one here, but if you continue to party and game on then the whole pre-med path will not work for you.
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To answer one of your questions: Yes, med schools can overlook a couple of bad grades accrued in your first term. If you show that you can get a decent GPA after this and do well on the MCAT, this first term will mean practically nothing by the time you actually start applying. It'll take some work, but you can do it!
BTW, we are only talking about ONE term, right? This isn't two or three?
Good luck!
BTW, we are only talking about ONE term, right? This isn't two or three?
Good luck!
thanks everyone. and yeah, it's just one semester, my first semester. also the classes i took this semester were gen chem(D), gen bio(C), calc 1(F), comp sci 1(D). I literally didn't even try, no studying whatsoever, skipped too many classes. i'm sure if i actually try i can get mostly A's and B's. but will MD schools (not DO's) really not care about my first semester if i get 3.7 and higher every semester from now on? though after junior year it will end up being just 3.2-3.3ish.
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If you show a significant upward trend, yes, they could overlook it. Though we can't guarantee that every school will do so.
PS. Keep your mind open to DO schools. They're not that bad!
PS. Keep your mind open to DO schools. They're not that bad!
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Did you already take bio, calc, chem, and comp. science in highschool?
I'm not trying to be debbie-downer, but how would you move forward if you didn't do well in any of those classes? (gen bio grade isn't that bad by the way)
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To be fair, gen bio 1 was tougher than gen bio 2 in my school. Still though, did you not have any conscious thought that something could be wrong when you started failing your exams?
What did you care about your first semester? Why be a doctor when you can be something else in the health field? You're only a freshmen so maybe you can be interested in something else that you can actually be attached to because you enjoy it.
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See... this is what I mean...
Do not take the actual prereqs until you know what the heck you're doing. I can assure you you're not going to get the "3.7's and higher" if you do not figure out exactly how to get them. Why didn't you try this semester? Why did you skip so many classes? Why didn't you study? And what makes you so sure you're over all these things? Prereq classes are no party so wanting to get into med school is not enough. How are you going to hold up when you're gonna have to add shadowing, EC's and all that other stuff to the mix?It is good to have a goal or dream or whatever but it is even better to have a solid and feasible plan on how you aim to achieve that goal.
thanks, this semester i just took a bunch of basic courses to see what i'm interested in, i was sort of thinking of medicine, but not too sure. but now i'm sure that's what i want. anyways can someone tell me the difference b/w MD and DO? i tried searching on these forums but too much sarcasm and too many memes to understand lol, anyways do DO's have the same opportunities, like can they go into surgery etc? i am new to this, and i've heard DO's are backups for people who don't get into MD schools (sorry if i'm wrong!) again, thanks
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Gen Bio and Gen Chem and Calc 1 are not exactly "Basic Courses." But I think I'm done here...
Goodluck to you.
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LOL
How true!Anywho, yes, DO's have all the same opportunities and abilities that MD's do. They are full doctors and can write prescriptions and everything. The most relevant difference is that DO schools generally accept people with slightly lower stats (GPA, MCAT, etc). Some people look down on DO's as 'lesser' than MD's, but those people are idiots.
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Bro, you need to get your hands on an MSAR (https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/requirements/msar/) and read it over Christmas break. It will tell you where you need to be in order to be a competitive applicant in a few years. Eat some cookies and meditate on where you went astray this past semester. Come back in the spring ready to throw down.
Even if you don't end up going to medical school, you're pissing away an amazing opportunity at a first rate education if you don't try to learn anything. Someone's paying for it -- either you are via loans or your parents are (or the government is via aid). Either way, seize the opportunity you have been given.
Even if you don't end up going to medical school, you're pissing away an amazing opportunity at a first rate education if you don't try to learn anything. Someone's paying for it -- either you are via loans or your parents are (or the government is via aid). Either way, seize the opportunity you have been given.
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You should re-think your life at this point. I'm not saying medicine is forever out of reach, but the odds were never in your favor, and now they're worse because you didn't feel like trying. I'll never understand you pre-meds that go into college and then don't give two ****s about how they do in class.
Although grades don't matter in MS 1&2, you should be shooting for A's in undergrad, no matter what career you're interested in pursuing.
Edit: by the way, taking basic science classes will give you little to no understanding of what being a doctor is like.
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OP, it's good that you're realizing your mistake now, so you can just start fresh next semester and really try. I'd suggest retaking those classes. If you apply MD, most schools average your original grade with your retake, so you can bump those D/F grades up to B-/C range so they'll be less of a hit on your GPA. Also consider taking a year off and applying after senior year so you can continue to boost GPA through senior year. A few bad grades in your very first semester of college may be overlooked if you commit to the rest of the semesters and show a great upward trend.
As said above by a previous poster, a DO can do the same things an MD can do. DO schools just happen to have lower average accepted GPA/MCAT, so they're generally considered "easier to get into" than MD schools, but you have to show that you are interested in DO, not just using it as an MD backup. DO's do get training in "manipulative medicine," so that is a difference from MD. Do a little research outside of SDN (google) on DO/MD, shadow a DO, etc.
You're basically saying that even before OP started this semester, the odds were never in his favor? Wow. People make mistakes. People have made worse mistakes than OP. OP seems like he's realized it and would like to fix it. No reason to be all holier-than-thou on him.
What does the first part of your sentence have to do with the rest of it? Yeah, although grades don't matter in pre-clinical years for when you're applying to residency, you can't just coast by and barely pass every class. There's no reason to always be gunning for honors or 90%+, but you also can't just sit back and put out the minimal amount of effort necessary for a P. If you don't learn anything in pre-clinical years, studying for boards is going to be hell because you'll be learning stuff for the first time instead of reviewing/recalling.
As said above by a previous poster, a DO can do the same things an MD can do. DO schools just happen to have lower average accepted GPA/MCAT, so they're generally considered "easier to get into" than MD schools, but you have to show that you are interested in DO, not just using it as an MD backup. DO's do get training in "manipulative medicine," so that is a difference from MD. Do a little research outside of SDN (google) on DO/MD, shadow a DO, etc.
You're basically saying that even before OP started this semester, the odds were never in his favor? Wow. People make mistakes. People have made worse mistakes than OP. OP seems like he's realized it and would like to fix it. No reason to be all holier-than-thou on him.What does the first part of your sentence have to do with the rest of it? Yeah, although grades don't matter in pre-clinical years for when you're applying to residency, you can't just coast by and barely pass every class. There's no reason to always be gunning for honors or 90%+, but you also can't just sit back and put out the minimal amount of effort necessary for a P. If you don't learn anything in pre-clinical years, studying for boards is going to be hell because you'll be learning stuff for the first time instead of reviewing/recalling.
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What does the first part of your sentence have to do with the rest of it? Yeah, although grades don't matter in pre-clinical years for when you're applying to residency, you can't just coast by and barely pass every class. There's no reason to always be gunning for honors or 90%+, but you also can't just sit back and put out the minimal amount of effort necessary for a P. If you don't learn anything in pre-clinical years, studying for boards is going to be hell because you'll be learning stuff for the first time instead of reviewing/recalling.
I meant that ~90% of freshman "pre-meds" don't make it to medical school. 9:1 means the odds are not in his favor. They weren't in anyone's favor when we started, but we persevered and beat the odds. Starting off with a D average just hurts his chances even more. I can't lie to the guy and say everything's going to be okay. He's got his work cut out for him.
I'm not trying to be all high and mighty, but the way he said he didn't try just rubs me wrong. If he offered some extenuating circumstances I wouldn't have minded, but doing poorly just because you didn't feel like trying is just... why? I can't wrap my head around it.
I didn't say you can coast in medical school, I just said the pre-clinical grades don't matter. Just about everyone and their mom is saying so in the Allo thread. Studying for a med school test and studying for Step 1 are not always the same thing. Even Nick Naylor doesn't care about his class rank on exams, because he spends most of his time studying for something more important. In undergrad, you basically have to suck it up and study what the professor deems important, or you won't get an A.
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Retake those classes and get A's. Don't get anything less than a B- from here on out. Don't get any W's. Really think about your course load and make sure it's something that you can handle. I'd recommend 12 credits until you can prove that you're ready for college courses.
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This part is especially important. The studying in pre-clinical is not the same as studying in undergrad. The pre-clincal grades don't matter much because the USMLE step 1 plays a far greater role in residency admissions. However, in undergrad grades are weighted as heavily as MCAT. This is why grades are important.
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I would drop that credit load down to 9 since it seems like he is taking 12 credits (4 classes =12 credits; not sure in his/her scenario).
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That's how I feel about the situation. The OP's mindset isn't cut out for medicine or college in general and I don't think it'll change in a month for the next semester.
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I learned my lesson about grades the hard way back in 7th grade biology. For a quiz, I studied the chapter, wrote my outlines, and made sure I understood all the material in there, then the entire quiz was on a single (teacher-made) handout I had forgotten to look over. That was one of the few times I ever failed anything in school.
That's basically how undergrad works. You study what's going to be on the test, and don't bother with the rest. Most of the profs at my school had the decency of telling us what was fair game and what was just for our enrichment.
thanks. so if i retake the classes, how will it affect medical school gpa? for example let's say i get a C in bio this semester, retake it next semester, and get an A, will it count just as once grade of a B? or go in once as a C, and once as an A? again, thanks.
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Kindly shut the **** up
OP, you'll have to work your butt off for the next few years. I know folks in your situation who firebombed the first semester or two of college and had to spend a good deal of time making it up. However you're gonna have to grow some strong discipline and really change your priorities. Sounds like you just had a bad case of "first time away from parents in college" - now that it's blown over, you should get to it.
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This is a long journey and most people make mistakes along the way, fall down and sometimes fail at a task. Regardless of the challenges, you shouldn't give up on your "dream" (if medicine is) just because you fell down....
if you have the internal drive, which is very personal, nobody/nothing will stop in your attempt to do accomplish anything in life. So figure out if this is something that you want to invest yourself into. good luck
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If becoming a physician is what you really want to do there is no reason to give up.
However, I would considering sitting out next semester, possibly longer. Go get a full time job and start paying all your own expenses. When you return to school you will be more motivated because you will know what it is like to work just to pay the bills and you will understand how it feels to have no college degree and need more money to pay your bills than your minimum job wage pays.
Yes, you are aware you messed up this semester. But I think that you knew all semester that you were not really trying. You did not stop the process so this January when classes resume you will probably not be ready to resume classes with the right attitude and motivation.
You can also look into how long it takes for academic bankruptcy. Sometimes you can basically erase a semester but I think it takes several years so it may not be worth it depending on how long you decide to stay out of school, if at all.
People makes mistakes in college but they fix what they can and turn things around. Its only been one semester so you really can turn things around.
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For MD programs one C and one A would show both the C and the A and the GPA would average them out.
For DO programs one C and a retake with an A would show both the C and the A but only the A would be calculated in the GPA.
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No need to be rude here. I'm entitled to my opinion. I'm not viciously attacking OP, I'm just stating the facts the way I see them. It's an uphill battle for him, and he's going to have to rethink this "should I try" attitude.
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Adf
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^ the fact that you're still obsessing over a 7th grade quiz is ridiculous.. hilariously ridiculous...
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And I find it hilariously ridiculous that people are resorting to ad hominem, instead of addressing what I wrote.
Mentioning something once in the past 10 years != obsession.
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With this kind of GPA i would question why you are even in college....
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I laughed at that too.
edit: Rethink medicine if you can't do well on a 7th grade biology quiz.
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What's with all the negativity? (And that's not directed solely at you.)
Yes, OP made a mistake. He screwed up. He apparently wasn't ready...
But he's come to a realization. He knows he needs to change his practices.
It's been one term. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and point him in the right direction. Why are you guys so unforgiving and nasty?
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Yes. If OP does well in future semesters he can easily get into a med school.
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I'm just having a hard time taking OP seriously. He hasn't expressed why medicine or why he didn't feel like trying first semester. I work with people that just don't care if they do a lackluster job, and it can put our patients in danger. I get called a snitch when I report these egregious errors
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+1
Agree totally with this. I remember I missed one question on my 2nd epidemiology exam just because I did not look at the study guide. I pretty much did everything else, came to class, took notes, did the homework, and did the practice tests. However, not looking at the study guide did me in (I looked at it for the first exam but not for the 2nd). I have had worse mistakes on exams in the past but they were more study habit problems. This one was because I did not study what the professor wanted me to know.
The main lesson is study high yield first and low yield later. This means study what the professor emphasizes first and foremost and then other material later. If there is a study guide, know it inside and out before engaging with your "whole" powerpoint and books. This will maximize one's chance of getting an A.
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keep at it and don't give up. If it is what you really want you can get it; but be willing to learn, grow up and mature a little and up your game. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do something
