Slacker girlfriend

[mtnbke]

My girlfriend still has a ton of secondaries to submit and I am beginning to worry about this since she is spending all day following her fantasy football team.

She already has two interviews (w/o a verified AMCAS mind you) but I am afraid that her application will be last in line.

Does anyone else still have secondaries that they are working on? My sense is that most of you wanna-be Docs already have them turned in.

I also was curious about whether anyone has publications in "real" journals. The girlfriend has published in Cancer (like ten times), Journal of Urology, Clinical Cancer Research, American Journal of Pathology, and the Brittish Journal of Urology. However, she is really modest and is fearful of her chances at the big name schools.

Be honest here folks. My sense is that most of the other applicants' research was not "real" research that contributed to knowledge base of the science, but rather pseudo-stuff in undergrad journals and rapid communication journals. Tell me if I'm wrong. She thinks that the entering class is probably full of budding young superstars.
I've always told her that her application will clearly stand out at even the most competitive schools.

I'm browsing through my DuPont Registry and would like to know what sections I should really restict myself to. I really need to know if a Carol Shelby Cobra is realistic or if I will have to make do with the replicas.

Thanks
Mtnbke

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[The Fly]

Your interest in your girlfriend's applicant status is admirable, but it is manifesting itself in inappropriate ways. For example, you need not involve yourself so intimately with her applications; it is up to her to complete them in a timely fashion.

With respect to other applicants and their credentials, it certainly depends on what school we're discussing. If we are talking about Harvard Medical School (I currently work there...), then yes, many of the students have 'real' research publications. Your girlfriend's research publications indeed sound impressive, but slandering other publications is inappropriate. In addition, while the journals you speak of are known, we're not talking about Cell, Science or Nature, which are widely considered the three most prestigious journals. Personally, I know of several students who have been published in these aforementioned journals at HMS. You will find the same thing at many other top medical schools, e.g. Hopkins, Yale, Columbia, UCSF, Wash U, etc...

If, however, you are talking about schools at the other end of the spectrum, and we need not name names, then I would conjecture few of them have published.

You will find that at the top schools, the students are amazingly diverse and quite impressive. I know a former member of the New York philharmonic that also has a law degree now at Harvard. Moreover, I can tell you that many of her classmates are just as impressive.

 

[Sonya]

I published in a real journal, J Neurosci, as second author. But few applicants have any publication at all. If research is her thing, than ONLY its really important. always helps, ofcourse.

Maybe ask her why she's slacking off... is she scared of medschool apps, and avoiding it? or overwhelmed by it? It's upto you and her (and your relation) how much you get involved with her application and what she does when. I think it's great you're concerned.

 

[moo]

Originally posted by mtnbke:
•
I also was curious about whether anyone has publications in "real" journals. The girlfriend has published in Cancer (like ten times), Journal of Urology, Clinical Cancer Research, American Journal of Pathology, and the Brittish Journal of Urology. However, she is really modest and is fearful of her chances at the big name schools.
•

What is a "real" journal? Can you please define term this precisely without referring to examples? Are the aforementioned journals "real?" How about journals in other disciplines? Are they "real?" I take offense to the fact that you are slandering other people's research by insinuating that their work is not worthy of any academic merit just because it wasn't published in some prestigious journal. I suppose that I am spending my last year doing research into theoretical physics a waste of time because I am not going to be publishing in a "real" journal anyhow.

 

[snowballz]

Why are you so concerned with her applications? She's a big girl and I'm sure can take care of herself.

Alicia

 

[punkin2]

Hey Moo,

Whatcha studying? I left physics my second year of grad school. How come you decided to go into medicine not physics?

 

[MiamiMarmot]

Dude,

I just had MY girlfriend read your post. She says that either you don't really have a girlfriend and you are talking about yourself...or, your interest in your girlfriend is "scary." Just wanted you to read another girl's opinion.

 

[kutastha]

I second MiamiMarmot's post. Nevertheless, what's with the concern regarding a 'real' journal? If you're equating 'real' as the top journals, then in all honesty, the ones you mentioned would not qualify as 'real', i.e. Cell, Science, Nature, JAMA, and the like. Anyhoos, if you are referring to your g/f, you need to give her your opinion and leave it at that. If this is indeed you we're talking about, just do your application for yourself without regard for what others may have on theirs.

In regard to the discussion about undergrads doing high caliber work, trust me, there's a huge difference between undergrads doing research projects and graduate work. That's why people go into grad school - if undergrads could do the research to write and publish first-author papers, what would you need grad students for other than to spend NIH money?

And furthermore, if fantasy football is more important to her than medical school, then she should certainly wait til football season is over.

Andrew

 

[Scooby Doo]

He's just trying to get a reaction from everyone...he obviously isn't real.
Chill

 

[mtnbke]

Yeah, yeah, yeah....

I don't mean to discredit the survey results they everybody put together as a "thesis." The point made about undergraduates having access to legitimate publication opportunities is well taken. Pre-med B.S. candidates might not have opportunities for publication especially at the bigger state schools.

That being said I am still interested getting a sense of how many prospective applicants have "real" publications. By using the term real in quotations I wasn't trying to establish some arbitrary hierarchy of the different journals. My colloquial (sp?)use of the term real was an attempt, obviously unsuccessful, to distinguish between school publications, newsletters and the like.

As I previously mentioned my girlfriend, who is the most adorable fictional girlfriend in the world, is very modest about her CV and it is difficult for me to get a sense of her standing as a med school candidate.

She believes that this AMCAS class is ripe with applicants who have legitimate publications in respectable journals. Is this the case? Do most of you have a publication(s) in "professional" journals?

Also do most of you have ALL of your secondaries completed or are you still working on schools that you are still reasonably interested in?

The reality is that this is a very competitive process. Pretending that everyones qualifications are equivalent is absurd. This is not a contest of equity, wherein the "best" people gains acceptance. It seems to me that those best able to tell the Curriculum Vitae story and interview well are golden(Scores and the like being a given).

For anyone who feels rankled that I didn't acknowledge how much effort they put into their surveys and abstracts smile with the knowledge that the person who irritated you so is completely uneducated and is just a schmoe sitting behind a cubicle somewhere.

I have NO accomplishments that might compare with the least accomplished of those who frequent here. I am just some fat, but incredibly lucky guy(my girlfriend rocks!)

I just want to have a sense of how just where the hell she might be living next year just in case she doesn't decide I'm not too "SCARY" to have a life with.

 

[rxfudd]

Originally posted by mtnbke:
• my girlfriend, who is the most adorable fictional girlfriend in the world•

I really hope you meant non-fictional...

 

[kutastha]

Originally posted by mtnbke:
•She believes that this AMCAS class is ripe with applicants who have legitimate publications in respectable journals. Is this the case? Do most of you have a publication(s) in "professional" journals?•

Yes.

•Also do most of you have ALL of your secondaries completed or are you still working on schools that you are still reasonably interested in?•

Yes.

Andrew

 

[daveshnave]

In regards to students having publications in what you refer to as "real" journals, I believe the answer is a resounding yes. Granted, many, if not most, entering medical students do not have publications. However, it is wrong to assume that many don't. I would venture to say that potentially thousands of applicants have articles published in credible journals. It's NOT as uncommon as you may think.

As for secondaries, although it is getting to be toward the time of year to wrap up secondaries (for any realistic chance) it is not unheard of for people to still be doing them. I have many friends in the process of completing them now. Plus, with all the screw-ups I've heard about this year with AMCAS, I'm sure many are sending in secondaries later than usual. She should probably get them done soon (next week or two), but there is no hard and fast rule for this... HOWEVER, there IS definite truth to the fact that if she probably waits another 5-6 weeks, her chances will be greatly diminished (but still not impossible). Don't you love answers that aren't black and white?

Good luck to both of you, and in my humble advice regarding relationships, watch what you say to her... it's ultimately her responsibility to get these done, and as much as you want to see her succeed, it's not your job to "police" her.

 

[sandflea]

i would be willing to bet that a large number of applicants may have done research in some shape or form, but a minority of these people actually have publications. of course it's impressive to publish in prestigious journals, but publishing at all is an honor. but like others have already mentioned, it's going to be *extremely* rare for a PI to hand a science/nature-worthy project to an undergrad.

that said, i think you and possibly your girlfriend are putting way too much weight on her publications. they won't be what gets her into med school. grades and MCATs (and ECs) matter most. publications are just icing on the cake and can just tip the scales in her favor *if* she's already considered a competitive candidate numbers-wise--but it doesn't work the other way around. so if she's going to worry, she should be worrying if her numbers are up to par with everyone else--not if her CV is.

also, it matters where she is on the totem pole of authors--if she's consistently like 9th of 10 authors, then it won't do much for her anyway. publications generally only pull some weight if you're one of the top few authors--meaning, contributed significantly to the work and actually wrote up the paper.

 

[sundevil1]

hey mtnbke,

you're a lucky guy. Your gf actually likes football enough to spend her time following her fantasy team. That's awesome. This is definetely a rare breed, jk. Another idea, why don't you put it in high gear and work towards getting your own shelby cobra instead of depending on her.

 

[vixen]

I am kind of in the same situation, but its my boyfriend that is "kind of" a slacker. Any more reinforcement that I should let him be and not be on his back about things and I'll feel better. Thanks

 

[USeF]

WARNING: complete tangent ahead

daveshnave (nice nick, btw) commented that "many, if not most, entering medical students do not have publications" I can't believe this is even debatable! There is no way to prove this, but I'd venture to say that less than a 1,000 of the yearly applicants have publications.

Let's break it down by the percentage of schools that have many research-oriented med students. This would be a few of the top 25 (of 125 US med schools). There are many more primary-care oriented schools at which I'd claim <5% have done any research. Of those who do undergrad research nationally, how many would you guess actually publish, 1 of 10? (more at big name schools, less at little names)

Though most of the people on SDN are ambitious and will probably be on the + side of the average at their chosen med school, we must not forget the vast majority of applicants are at public univeristies and that most of these have no interest whatsoever in research.

Just keep in mind the AVERAGE applicant had to bust their way to get a 28 and has extensive hospital volunteer hrs and 1 or 2 other significant scholastic/extra-curricular exp. I only Wish there was some way of verifying this, but alas there is not...

 

[synite]

i agree...

i think people are scaring themselves silly over other people's credentials. trust me, not every guy is a superstar triple-major research-genius who saved the world.

you know what i think? the people who get into med school are confident in themselves and don't care how the next guy measures up to them. this comes across easily in interviews, and adcoms spot it and like it.

also, if your girlfriend has really published like 20 times already, i assume she has some sort of drive and ambition to get her through the med school process. leave her alone.

 

[RainaNoelle]

Some things aren't as clear-cut as they might be... I am more of a "slacker" than your gf it seems (I *just* submitted my PRIMARY app today...darned essays kept stopping me cold) but I also happen to be 8 months pregnant which is a de-motivator if I've ever felt one.

You may find that more of the non-traditional pre-meds have been published, although I'd imagine still not that many without some work toward a graduate degree. I was a physics ug major and have been published three times in peer-reviewed physics journals as a tertiary author based on my own research projects, but it's not medicine, so I'm not sure how much weight it will have. I also have a patent *application* as a primary researcher (not a completed patent yet, as those can take years) that may have been sitting around on some Proctor&Gamble lawyer's desk for a year or so based on my research for them, but again I have no idea if any med schools will care since it's not medical research.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is all things are relative. Your gf will finish in her own time, and should be proud of her application for WHO SHE IS, not just for what she's done. If she's got what it takes to become a doctor (and I don't doubt that she does) it'll come through. Besides, I'm guessing she's a heck of a lot younger than I am too, so she can apply again later without concern if the unspeakable happens (I'll be 33 this X-mas and will still keep applying if I don't get in this time).

Best of luck to your gf!

Raina

 

[RainaNoelle]

I suppose I should add that I took the August MCAT, so that's why I've not been terribly concerned about getting my primary app in before now. I'd have *liked* to get it in earlier, but oh well <shrug>.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I'm not completely insane.

Raina

 

[TechMan]

Hey Moo -

I know the Editor for the International Journal of Theoretical physics, he happens to be my professor. I also agree that the use of the term "real" journal is inappropriate.