So tired of explaining osteopathic medicine to ignorant biased relatives...

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M

MichiganEMTInt

I have too many relatives that give me a strange look when they ask me about osteopathic medicine. They ask even though they know nothing will convince them that DO's are "real doctors".

One of my relatives even said "well, I'm sure they're just like MDs, but MD is a very powerful title. You definitely will need those to succeed the most, or at least pay off your student loans faster."

To this ^ I had to restrain myself. How about the out of state MD student who goes into a specialty that pays on the lower end of the spectrum versus the DO student who goes in state (debt < 100k?) and chooses a specialty that pays at the high end of the spectrum? Ignorant & biased?

I take it other pre-DO applicants have been in this situation before and I'm sure you would agree its extremely frustrating. Anybody find a particularly efficient way of dealing with this?

Some things I mention are:
1. The only "major" differences are board exams, and DOs receive OMM training which MDs do not.
2. DOs practice in every specialty just as MDs do.
3. DOs are fully licensed physicians in the United States...they can prescribe meds, perform surgery, etc etc.
4. DO school admission is competitive.
5. While many DO schools focus on primary care, all osteopathic physicians are in NO WAY "natural" or "holistic" or whatever stupid word people use these days to stereotype osteopathic physicians as "non-physicians".
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I completely agree. Although I find it more annoying explaining the above to Premed undergrads who pretend that DO schools are beneath them.
 
For sure. I have had some UNBELIEVABLE conversations with younger undergrads who want to pursue medicine. I understand they are early in the process and may not know as much, but I'd rather them tell me they don't know anything when we first begin to talk so I can direct them to a website instead of my face. Plus, I have to study anyway.
 
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Maybe try telling people that D.O. schools are more progressive in their philosophies. I think this may actually be true.
 
nontradfogie said:
I completely agree. Although I find it more annoying explaining the above to Premed undergrads who pretend that DO schools are beneath them.
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My undergraduate institution has professors who claim that DO schools are of lower rank. Try dealing with such advisors. Horrible.
 
+1. I think no explanation really works.

We've all been in their position, listening to someone "explain/defend" that they're equal to something else. We listen intently with inquisitive looks, all the while saying to ourselves: ":rolleyes: ya right buddy." Can you really blame them though? To the naive ear it does sound fishy. If they're the same as the all-hailed MD, why haven't I heard of them, why would they have different degrees, etc. Something ain't right.

Here's what I tell myself, because I'd rather pick avocados for a living than go through the rest of my life having to explain this to everyone, all the while they're telling themselves, "translation: chiropractor." Just say what specialty you are. Don't say I'm a physician, say I'm a urologist. Your shiny watch, coupled with the faint whiff of the high octane fuel that trickled onto your Bruno Maglis while refilling your 911 Turbo will end any further shenanigans.
 
In general, to the people I dont want to explain it to, or I think will be to ignorant to understand I say I'm going to PCOM (Philadelphia College of Medicine).

To those who I figure I can explain it to Its Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine.

It all depends on my attitude, I wouldn't deny being a DO at all, it's just easier in convo to not have to explain a whole sect of medicine in passing.

P.S. my mother still asks me if I will make as much money as a DO... and she points out how many DOs are in her healthcare book under various specialties... She knows ill be fully licensed but somehow thinks ill get shafted with $?
 
nontradfogie said:
I completely agree. Although I find it more annoying explaining the above to Premed undergrads who pretend that DO schools are beneath them.
Click to expand...

As they are completing their third masters degree because they couldn't get in anyways.


The worst for me was telling the oral surgeon (DMD) that I used to work for and the PA that works with him which school I'm ending up at then they both say, oh you're going to OSTEOPATHIC school. Like that is different from med school.
 
piss ant said:
Don't say I'm a physician, say I'm a urologist. Your shiny watch, coupled with the faint whiff of the high octane fuel that trickled onto your Bruno Maglis while refilling your 911 Turbo will end any further shenanigans.
Click to expand...

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Well said. While we're dreaming, I'd rather have a Superleggera Gallardo than a 911 Turbo.
 
Kateb4 said:
The worst for me was telling the oral surgeon (DMD) that I used to work for and the PA that works with him which school I'm ending up at then they both say, oh you're going to OSTEOPATHIC school. Like that is different from med school.
Click to expand...

I absolutely HATE that. When people use every word to describe DO but doctor. You can go on and on proving your point, and you KNOW you're right, but they are thinking "right right...BUT...you're just a DO, they're not REALLY the same..." or something.
 
This is my new favorite reply:

"Did you know that there are 2 degrees awarded to dentists? Yep, the DDS and the DMD degree. They are both the same, functionally speaking, and the main difference is semantics". Problem solved. :thumbup:

http://www.ada.org/public/topics/dds_dmd.asp
 
I was trying to tell a friend about what does DO mean and at the end of conversation she said 'oh, they are like PA's' :eek:

I just dropped it cause i could see that i wasn't getting anywhere.....
 
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prionsRbad said:
This is my new favorite reply:

"Did you know that there are 2 degrees awarded to dentists? Yep, the DDS and the DMD degree. They are both the same, functionally speaking, and the main difference is semantics". Problem solved. :thumbup:

http://www.ada.org/public/topics/dds_dmd.asp
Click to expand...

And veterinarians...DVM and VMD (or, if they know some pet manipulation, it's VDO...nah, just kidding!!).

Truth is, you'd better get used to it because people will ask, at least from time to time, for your entire career. If you are truly into osteopathic principles, then you'll find yourself explaining the differences. If you don't care about any differences between DOs and MDs, then just say something like "...historically there used to be a difference, but now they are the same..." or something. Beyond that, it is up to YOU to gain the trust and respect of your patients, regardless of the initials behind your name.
 
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meh...ive grown pretty tough skin... My I go to undergrad at Occidental....these are what my conversations sound like....

very rarely....

a) Person: Where do you go to school?
Me: Occidental college
Person: oh thats a great school, congrats!

very common...

b) Person: where do you go to school?
Me: Occidental college
Person: oh so you want to be a dentist?
Me: no no its a 4 year undergraduate institution. i'm majoring kinesiology
Person: kiniesiology? does that have something to do with being a dentist?
Me (thinking): if you mention dentistry one more time, you will WISH i went to dental school b/c i will knock out your teeth.


many of my friend are clueless about osteopathic medicine..... i think ive done well to educate them tho and they have been good at accepting the fact that a doctor is a doctor is a doctor. I find its pretty common that people assume osteopathic medicine has to do/is equivalent to orthopedics....anybody else run into that? i guess its not a bad guess.
 
I can't say that I've really had any issue. Ordinarily, in conversation with people around me, I try to keep it simple and don't bother explaining myself, unless I think it's going to be worth my time. If my judgment tells me that they are going to act like ignoramouses, I just say, "I'm a second year medical student in Kansas City, MO" and leave it at that (unless I am asked to get more specific, in which case, I do). It's sufficient and absolutely true; everyone moves on. However, if I think the people I'm talking to are going to appreciate the distinction, I may provide more specific information, such as, "I'm an second year medical student at KCUMB, an osteopathic medical school located in Kansas City, MO." Sometimes that begs additional questions and conversation about osteopathic medicine, often very positive, but more often than not, people just say, "Oh, cool," and we move on.

Even with family and close friends, there's no need to explain yourself or to try to make anyone understand; that just makes them think you are insecure, or that their rediculous thoughts are true. It's not your job to fix them. If you don't feel like dwelling on it, just state facts and move on. Adults don't need to explain their choices. If certain relatives or friends have goofy ideas of osteopathic medicine, provide correct information, then leave it, don't attempt to defend yourself or your profession, especially if they continue to ooze idiocy, or try to argue for their misconceptions. Walk away. This shows confidence and that you don't give a crap what they think. If you feed their stupidity, they will continue.

When you become a fully qualified physician, let your actions and your life speak for themselves. If your relatives still don't understand, then they are completely clueless. Love them for the way that they are, even if they are unwilling to let go of prejudices, and live your life happily, for yourself.
 
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I will say that, when I made my application to medical schools, my parents didn't know much about DO's and the little that they did know, were largely misconceptions. I didn't make much of it, really, since it was understandable. They had some concerns. I spent some time explaining what I knew and provided them with resources by which they could research their questions and check their understanding. I think it helped that my brother, one of my closest friends, and my family physician, were MD's and corroborated my explanation that DO's and MD's were equivalent and that there was no difference professionally. Despite that, however, my mom asked me many times, throughout the process, if I was sure that they were professionally equivalent and I would say, "Of course. Mom, you know me and you know that I would do what was best for myself professionally; that's how I feel about attending an osteopathic medical school. I'm just asking for you to trust me." To my parent's credit, they trusted me. That did feel quite good, even though it wasn't necessary. Of course, they also took the time to research the issue to better understand what I was getting into and were satisfied that my assertions were accurate. At the end of the application process, I think my Mom actually knew almost as much as I did about DO's.
 
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St. George's website just crashed due to a surge of traffic. :laugh:
 
spicedmanna said:
Care to elaborate?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I need to. But I liked your honest answer, so I'll explain my humorous one: most people like to avoid being considered inferior. And some (many, a lot, I don't know) will pursue avenues that may offer them an easier time at the cocktail-party-career-exchange, even if it comes at a cost.
 
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spicedmanna said:
I see. That is a very good explanation, piss ant; it allows me to really appreciate that particular perspective.
Click to expand...

I have an Olympic-caliber sarcasm detector, but I'm not getting a good read. Anyhow, is this perspective foreign to you? I thought it was human nature, except for the save few who don't give a damn about what people think of them.
 
piss ant said:
I have an Olympic-caliber sarcasm detector, but I'm not getting a good read. Anyhow, is this perspective foreign to you? I thought it was human nature, except for the save few who don't give a damn about what people think of them.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you are reading correctly, it was a genuine response on my part. I wouldn't say that it is a foreign perspective as so much as one that has atrophied from many years of disuse. My life has taught me that what I think of myself is ultimately more important than what others might think of me. Of course, it took some interesting experiences to build that perspective, perhaps better left for other posts. I will say that it helps to grow up with most people looking at you funny and as something foreign to start with. It helps to have a father you try to impress, but ultimately realize that you can't; that it never was about you. Anyway, I didn't always think this way, but, yeah, this is how I generally approach my life these days.
 
spicedmanna said:
Yeah, you are reading correctly, it was a genuine response on my part. I wouldn't say that it is a foreign perspective as so much as one that has atrophied from many years of disuse. My life has taught me that what I think of myself is ultimately more important than what others might think of me. Of course, it took some interesting experiences to build that perspective, perhaps better left for other posts. Anyway, I didn't always think this way, but, yeah, this is how I generally approach my life these days.
Click to expand...

:thumbup: Well you're better for it. It's certainly the proper perspective, but as you allude to, it isn't easy to obtain.
 
Ahh, it is time for this year's "So tired of explaining osteopathic medicine to ignorant biased relatives...". The mods should really modify the title of the thread to "2008-2009 So tired of explaining osteopathic medicine to ignorant biased relatives...".

But on the serious side, it's one of those things you have to deal with when you apply to DO school. In the end, you have to remind yourself that you have a dream to practice medicine and that DO school will allow you to achieve that dream. You just have to let go of the fact that other people have preconcieved notions about it mostly due to ignorance or arrogance. Your doing what you what with your life and that's all that should matter to you. On the bright side it becomes less of a problem once you're in. You'll be too busy trying to study to care for one and you'll be interacting with MD and DO faculty who don't seem to mind the difference.
 
I told my mom that I was going to be an osteopathic physician. When she asked what that was, I told her that it was like a doctor, but instead of surgery, medication, and other common procedures, I would utilize herbal remidies, laying-on of hands, and prayer. I told her to go rent "on deadly ground" with Steven Seagal, to get a good feel for osteopathic medicine.

Now she won't talk to me, and refuses to acknowledge me as her son. She tells people that I was run over by a truck and killed.

If you can get your family members to be so ashamed of you that they won't talk to you anymore, you won't have to explain this to them.

Posted via Mobile Device
 
I think we all have to deal with this a lot. The funny thing is, I come from a family of MDs, and they all told me to go DO.

I don't think there's any good way to go about explaining DO to someone who is uninformed or biased. All you can really say is that both DOs and MDs are fully qualified to practice all scopes of medicine, and that they have been for years. I usually tell people that if they've ever been in the hopsital, most likely they've been treated by a DO and just didn't know.

There's no real way around this problem. We all just need to keep explaining away.
 
Tell them "DO is just like MD, except DOs accept live chickens as forms of payment."

And yeah having an uncle MD and a cousin in allo med school, I got weird looks when I said I'm seriously considering DO.

Oh well.
 
MichiganEMTInt said:
Some things I mention are:
1. The only "major" differences are board exams, and DOs receive OMM training which MDs do not.
2. DOs practice in every specialty just as MDs do.
3. DOs are fully licensed physicians in the United States...they can prescribe meds, perform surgery, etc etc.
4. DO school admission is competitive.
5. While many DO schools focus on primary care, all osteopathic physicians are in NO WAY "natural" or "holistic" or whatever stupid word people use these days to stereotype osteopathic physicians as "non-physicians".
Click to expand...

hey! i really like that list,:thumbup: when i talk to my parents they usually don't even give me time to explain and after they ramble on for about two and a half hours i forget what to say lol
 
My mother in-law said this to me shortly after my acceptance "My friend down the street told me you are going to a homeopathic school"

So I gave a quick explanation of the DO thing. Which seemed to go completely over her head because her reply was "Well... they aren't quacks are they?" To which I replied "No. No they are not."

It hasn't come up since. Funny thing is that her daughter (my sister in-law, not my wife) goes to a DO. Once they realized this it helped my case a lot I think.

I recommend keeping an eye out for someone your parents trust that happens to attend a DO school, has graduated from a DO school, or goes to a DO doc.
 
Just say medical school and leave it at that. I always find it better to give the least amount of information possible, especially to someone whom I consider to have no need for further information (parents, friends, etc)
 
Thanks for the advice everyone. I think the best thing is to keep your cool even when they are "oozing idiocy" which happens more often than not. You can't expect them to be completely up to date on everything in medicine when they aren't spending as much time on it as you are. I think the older they are, the harder they are to convince that DOs are as equally qualified as MDs, because they lived around MDs longer and may not have heard of osteopathic medicine, so they automatically form opinions, etc.
 
TexasTriathlete said:
I told my mom that I was going to be an osteopathic physician. When she asked what that was, I told her that it was like a doctor, but instead of surgery, medication, and other common procedures, I would utilize herbal remidies, laying-on of hands, and prayer. I told her to go rent "on deadly ground" with Steven Seagal, to get a good feel for osteopathic medicine.

Now she won't talk to me, and refuses to acknowledge me as her son. She tells people that I was run over by a truck and killed.

If you can get your family members to be so ashamed of you that they won't talk to you anymore, you won't have to explain this to them.

Posted via Mobile Device
Click to expand...



:laugh::laugh:
 
I actually shadowed a general surgeon a few months back (he's an MD) and I was impressed by the fact that he thought DO was the way to go, hands down.
 
I'm fortunate enough to have quite a few family members in the medical profession. A bunch of nurses, a dentist and an MD. Everyone is fully aware DOs are fully licensed physicians.
im coming from a small, and biased sample size though (biased in the sense that they are knowledgeable).
 
MichiganEMTInt said:
I have too many relatives that give me a strange look when they ask me about osteopathic medicine. They ask even though they know nothing will convince them that DO's are "real doctors".

One of my relatives even said "well, I'm sure they're just like MDs, but MD is a very powerful title. You definitely will need those to succeed the most, or at least pay off your student loans faster."

To this ^ I had to restrain myself. How about the out of state MD student who goes into a specialty that pays on the lower end of the spectrum versus the DO student who goes in state (debt < 100k?) and chooses a specialty that pays at the high end of the spectrum? Ignorant & biased?

I take it other pre-DO applicants have been in this situation before and I'm sure you would agree its extremely frustrating. Anybody find a particularly efficient way of dealing with this?

Some things I mention are:
1. The only "major" differences are board exams, and DOs receive OMM training which MDs do not.
2. DOs practice in every specialty just as MDs do.
3. DOs are fully licensed physicians in the United States...they can prescribe meds, perform surgery, etc etc.
4. DO school admission is competitive.
5. While many DO schools focus on primary care, all osteopathic physicians are in NO WAY "natural" or "holistic" or whatever stupid word people use these days to stereotype osteopathic physicians as "non-physicians".
Click to expand...
Yay my first post! :D. I too have explained the D.O. concepts so many times, I get a headache thinking about it. Generally, people seem to be cool with it. My mother doesn't really care especially since she just found out that the doctor she had been going to for the past 5 years is a D.O. LOL. I thought it would be cool for my cousin to mentor me since she was a doctor (M.D.). I decided to leave my professional endeavors out of her ear since she told me that if I went the osteopathic route, I probably wouldn't be able to find a residency let alone a job. :(
 
DONotMD said:
I decided to leave my professional endeavors out of her ear since she told me that if I went the osteopathic route, I probably wouldn't be able to find a residency let alone a job. :(
Click to expand...

Probably a wise move. I'm sorry to hear that. With all due respect to your cousin, that is probably one of the more idiotic things I've heard in a while. It is completely divorced from reality. Yeah, with quality mentorship like that, you wouldn't need enemies.
 
MD OR DO its :D all the same?? can we go the park now? oppps srry.lol


I hate ppl that are so ignorant and dump founded that they think DO schools are any less in value then an MD school :eek: (im like what? wtf?). I know a doctor who is a DO that is in charge of all the physcians doing their residency at one local hospital(alll =MD +DO)..yes he is a DO..

im so :eek: shocked to see carrbiannnn MD students or those who are planning to go there mock us DO applicants as if we were some kind of second class medical students..:eek:.. i bet u a million "greens" (which i do have--but i actually hid that money under one old old tree somewhere in michigan:cool:) that these carribian students had applied to DO schools and had gotten rejected before deciding to go the carribians.

once upon a time:

a girl came up to me and asked me what do u wnat be?

i told her proudly? i want be a DO, and DO ROCKSSSssssssss

she said: OH F***k That sooo hottt

i replied: who the DO or me?

ok ok i made that story up --but u get the drilll--- DO foreverr..
 
Which school are you going to that you are only going to have less than 100k in debt. Thats crazy cheap.
 
Ive had a friend of the family (an internist) tell me if she were to do it all over again, she would go DO.

My granddad who is old school MD said the best surgeon he ever knew was a DO.


On the other end of the see-saw is my cousin who is an MD. He respects DOs and views them as equals to MDs. But my aunt (his mom) asked me where I was going, so I told her and she responded "oh, isnt that a 1 year degree " ---Kinda ticked me off, But what I think is important is that MOST collegues will know that your legit with a DO and your patients will be about your bedside manner and clinic skills and not the initials
 
TexasTriathlete said:
I told my mom that I was going to be an osteopathic physician. When she asked what that was, I told her that it was like a doctor, but instead of surgery, medication, and other common procedures, I would utilize herbal remidies, laying-on of hands, and prayer. I told her to go rent "on deadly ground" with Steven Seagal, to get a good feel for osteopathic medicine.

Now she won't talk to me, and refuses to acknowledge me as her son. She tells people that I was run over by a truck and killed.

If you can get your family members to be so ashamed of you that they won't talk to you anymore, you won't have to explain this to them.

Posted via Mobile Device
Click to expand...
Post of the week :laugh:
 
RealDream said:
MD OR DO its :D all the same?? can we go the park now? oppps srry.lol


I hate ppl that are so ignorant and dump founded that they think DO schools are any less in value then an MD school :eek: (im like what? wtf?). I know a doctor who is a DO that is in charge of all the physcians doing their residency at one local hospital(alll =MD +DO)..yes he is a DO..

im so :eek: shocked to see carrbiannnn MD students or those who are planning to go there mock us DO applicants as if we were some kind of second class medical students..:eek:.. i bet u a million "greens" (which i do have--but i actually hid that money under one old old tree somewhere in michigan:cool:) that these carribian students had applied to DO schools and had gotten rejected before deciding to go the carribians.

once upon a time:

a girl came up to me and asked me what do u wnat be?

i told her proudly? i want be a DO, and DO ROCKSSSssssssss

she said: OH F***k That sooo hottt

i replied: who the DO or me?

ok ok i made that story up --but u get the drilll--- DO foreverr..
Click to expand...

Nice story. A+
 
Honestly by the time we finish residency and fellowship training, I bet these days will be over. I wouldn't be surprised if by that point DO's make up 1/3 of the graduating physicians every year. Isn't it upto 1/4 now?
 
No idea. But I hope you're right. As the number of practicing osteopathic physicians increases every year, more patients will be treated by them, etc. Only good things can come from that.
 
MichiganEMTInt said:
No idea. But I hope you're right. As the number of practicing osteopathic physicians increases every year, more patients will be treated by them, etc. Only good things can come from that.
Click to expand...

As long as you can ensure that you have enough quality 3rd/4th year rotations and residency spots for the increasing number of graduating osteopathic medical students, resulting from the increase in the number osteopathic medical schools and enrollment. GME has to stay in step with the increase, both in quality and in number, or you'll may be stuck with a lot more competition during the match.
 
RealDream said:
MD OR DO its :D all the same?? can we go the park now? oppps srry.lol


I hate ppl that are so ignorant and dump founded that they think DO schools are any less in value then an MD school :eek: (im like what? wtf?). I know a doctor who is a DO that is in charge of all the physcians doing their residency at one local hospital(alll =MD +DO)..yes he is a DO..

im so :eek: shocked to see carrbiannnn MD students or those who are planning to go there mock us DO applicants as if we were some kind of second class medical students..:eek:.. i bet u a million "greens" (which i do have--but i actually hid that money under one old old tree somewhere in michigan:cool:) that these carribian students had applied to DO schools and had gotten rejected before deciding to go the carribians.

once upon a time:

a girl came up to me and asked me what do u wnat be?

i told her proudly? i want be a DO, and DO ROCKSSSssssssss

she said: OH F***k That sooo hottt

i replied: who the DO or me?

ok ok i made that story up --but u get the drilll--- DO foreverr..
Click to expand...

WTF, over.

Talk about "second class".

Hooked on phonics worked for me.
 
My 2 cents:

I've done hours of reading and research. Talked to many doctors and nurses and have not found ANY bias other than on this board. DO, MD, Carib MD, all the same in the workplace whether a people like it or not.

I'm currently shadowing a DO that is a professor for an MD school, she takes Ortho, Neuro (PGY-1), and PM&R (PGY-1+) residents year around. To me this was nearly the pinnacle of integration, the MD school is also ranked in both research and primary care if it matters to anyone. I'm extremely confident in all paths to becoming a physician MD or DO.
 
Cp22kjer said:
I'm extremely confident in all paths to becoming a physician MD or DO.
Click to expand...
+1
i had a sensei for martial arts who is a grad of Universidad De Guadalajara. When i first found out where he went to school, I said something to the effect of "wow, isn't that even harder then? studying medicine musta been tough, but to learn it in spanish must have been really hard!"
*keep in mind i was 15 or so*
I have so much respect for this man, both as a doctor and sensei. It really didnt matter to me where he got his degree from at that age. lol, it was only until i became a member of SDN did I get so neurotic ! :laugh:
 
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Don't feel bad, OP. When I was in grad school (to get my PhD in chemistry), I was asked by a person (who will remain unnamed to protect the guilty) why anyone would want a philosophy degree, and how you'd ever get a job with one. So of course I explained that just because the degree is called a doctor of philosophy doesn't mean that I am actually studying philosophy! :p

I don't really have much to add to this thread other than to say not to worry. Once you guys get out and are practicing, no one will care about what degree you have: not your patients, not your colleagues, and not your family members. In fact, your family will be too busy bragging to anyone who is too lame or sick to escape about how you, their son or daughter, are a *doctor.* :D
 
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