SoCal IM programs

[USCgal]

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B) Of all of the USC students who went into IM last year, only ONE elected to stay at USC for residency, and rumor has it this was due to a significant other more than actually wanting to be at USC. Say what you will about USC having an unjustified bad rep, or about the program improving, but I think this last fact is particularly telling.

Thats not true. We do have a few that chose to stay, and the sole reason was not at all for a significant other.

The ancillary staff is overall not that bad. There are some bad apples, but overall, they are cool. Not at all like the horror stories you hear about county hospitals. I don't ever draw my own labs.

And as far as fellowships are concerned, USC likes to pull internally.

 

[vortexed]

Thats not true. We do have a few that chose to stay, and the sole reason was not at all for a significant other.

The ancillary staff is overall not that bad. There are some bad apples, but overall, they are cool. Not at all like the horror stories you hear about county hospitals. I don't ever draw my own labs.

And as far as fellowships are concerned, USC likes to pull internally.

No, actually, it is true. I have last year's match list in front of me. Perhaps you were referring to the entire house staff, for all years. There certainly would be more than one, in this case. In fact, for whatever reason, in previous years, more Keck graduates wanted to stay. That is not what I was referring to. Of all Keck students who matched into internal medicine for LAST YEAR, ONLY ONE decided to stay at USC for residency. People from that same class have told me that this one case was because of a significant other. And I stand by my statement that this is very telling. Ostensibly we know the program very well. If none of us want to stay, what does this say about the program?

In fact, for good measure, here is the medicine match list for last year:
USC
UCLA (2)
University of Pittsburgh
Cedars-Sinai (4)
UC Irvine
UMich
UC Davis
UT-SW
Scripps Mercy
Harbor-UCLA
Cornell
UCLA-Olive View
Naval Medical Center

Make your own conclusions from this.

 

[AsROMA]

I have a question for some of the med students / residents living in LA area. USC pays ~43,995 / year for PGY1, which is about 36oo/ month. Can you live in a decent area in LA with that amount? It is quite low in comparison to other places I interviewed, even compare to NY.

Their website boast fellowship match of 44% last year and only 45% stay within USC. Those are quite low, even lower than some of the mid level community hospital programs. Any thought?

 

[theunderdog]

I have a question for some of the med students / residents living in LA area. USC pays ~43,995 / year for PGY1, which is about 36oo/ month. Can you live in a decent area in LA with that amount? It is quite low in comparison to other places I interviewed, even compare to NY.

Their website boast fellowship match of 44% last year and only 45% stay within USC. Those are quite low, even lower than some of the mid level community hospital programs. Any thought?

$44K is on the lower end of the salaries, but it is sufficient to scrape by. You can probably live in west LA... for about $1100 to 1200 a month.

44% felowship placement is below average. But you need to keep in mind that part of it is because it does not have a primary care track. If you look at Montefiore (NYC), which has about the same size residency of 50-60 residents PER CLASS, their fellowship match is close to 80%. I was like Damn Boy. What does this say to you about the program?

Then I researched it more. They have a primary care track! These residents are becoming the hospitalists, etc. Leaving the subspecialty aspirators in the categorical track.

 

[futureres]

I have a question for some of the med students / residents living in LA area. USC pays ~43,995 / year for PGY1, which is about 36oo/ month. Can you live in a decent area in LA with that amount? It is quite low in comparison to other places I interviewed, even compare to NY.

Their website boast fellowship match of 44% last year and only 45% stay within USC. Those are quite low, even lower than some of the mid level community hospital programs. Any thought?

That salary is ridiculously low compared to other programs based on the cost of living...and is that the base salary or after taxes?? Because taxes will make it even worse...

 

[Nhl135]

usc resident told me around ~3000/month after taxes taken out..

 

[Scaredshizzles]

usc resident told me around ~3000/month after taxes taken out..

The way tax brackets work, I don't think it is much advantage to making over or under 49k/year in residency.

 

[Banny]

Can someone please help me with my rank list! I've been procrastinating and now it's almost due.

Cedars
Harbor
UCI
Loma Linda
CPMC
Olive View
USC
Santa Clara Valley

Interested in fellowship.

Thanks!

 

[theunderdog]

Can someone please help me with my rank list! I've been procrastinating and now it's almost due.

Cedars
Harbor
UCI
Loma Linda
CPMC
Olive View
USC
Santa Clara Valley

Interested in fellowship.

Thanks!

UCI first, Cedars, CPMC, Harbor = Olive View, Loma Linda, USC, SCV

Thanks for the post.

 

[Hassler]

Can someone please help me with my rank list! I've been procrastinating and now it's almost due.

Cedars
Harbor
UCI
Loma Linda
CPMC
Olive View
USC
Santa Clara Valley

Interested in fellowship.

Thanks!

IMO, Cedars > Harbor = Olive View = UCI > CPMC > USC > Loma Linda > SCV

 

[codeb1ue]

Can someone please help me with my rank list! I've been procrastinating and now it's almost due.

Cedars
Harbor
UCI
Loma Linda
CPMC
Olive View
USC
Santa Clara Valley

Interested in fellowship.

Thanks!

just to confuse you a bit more... IMHO:
Harbor > Cedars > UCI=Olive View > CPMC > USC > Loma Linda

 

[Hassler]

just to confuse you a bit more... IMHO:
Harbor > Cedars > UCI=Olive View > CPMC > USC > Loma Linda

I guess it goes to show that the first 4 are pretty close in terms of reputation and you have to decide based on what you want from your residency training and how well you think you'll fit.

 

[Moonglow]

Nope: it's Cedars > Harbor

 

[ResidentMD]

Nope: it's Cedars > Harbor

I would think so too, especially if you are even remotely interested in Cards.

 

[verbalassasin]

I would think so too, especially if you are even remotely interested in Cards.

Why do you say that, when Harbor has an equally good Cards match rate? And Harbor takes more of its own residents then Cedars, in terms of in house Cards fellowship spots. I think both programs are equal. The #1 program in LA is UCLA, but not by much compared to these other two programs. You can't go wrong choosing one or the other.

 

[ResidentMD]

Why do you say that, when Harbor has an equally good Cards match rate? And Harbor takes more of its own residents then Cedars, in terms of in house Cards fellowship spots. I think both programs are equal. The #1 program in LA is UCLA, but not by much compared to these other two programs. You can't go wrong choosing one or the other.

I have heard that Cedars is probably one of the best programs in the country for Cards...possibly top 5. Whether it edges out UCLA or not in Cards...I dont know for sure (though I believe it does - from the multiple people I have spoken to who are looking at Cards for fellowship; I am not). Of course, there are many Cards fans on this forum, so if someone can clarify this, it would help.

 

[theunderdog]

Why do you say that, when Harbor has an equally good Cards match rate? And Harbor takes more of its own residents then Cedars, in terms of in house Cards fellowship spots. I think both programs are equal. The #1 program in LA is UCLA, but not by much compared to these other two programs. You can't go wrong choosing one or the other.

First, it's hard to compare match rate percentages in cards because Cedars has double the residency size of Harbor. I believe Cedars has 40+ residents per class, while Harbor only has 20 or 22.

Please don't confuse cardiology reputation with cardiology match rate. How a program's residents match in cardiology doesn't directly tell you how well their own cardiology program is.

In the academic circle, Cedars is better known for cardiology. If you look at the US News, in which a big factor is what other PDs think of each other's programs, Cedars Sinai (and UCLA) is a top program. Top 15, last I checked.
Aside from Cardiology, Cedars is ranked in a total of 11 of 16 subspecialties.
Harbor is ranked in 0 of 16. Cedars Sinai is also 3 times the size of Harbor-UCLA.

We had pages of debate in another thread about who are the best programs in SoCal, but it is widely agreed that UCLA and Cedars are up there.

 

[Scaredshizzles]

In the academic circle, Cedars is better known for cardiology. If you look at the US News, in which a big factor is what other PDs think of each other's programs, Cedars Sinai (and UCLA) is a top program. Top 15, last I checked.
Aside from Cardiology, Cedars is ranked in a total of 11 of 16 subspecialties.
Harbor is ranked in 0 of 16. Cedars Sinai is also 3 times the size of Harbor-UCLA.

Oh really, the US News survey is of program directors now?? See, this is the problem with evidence based medicine in general. People love to throw study results out there, without actually reading the paper and understanding what the researchers were trying to measure. No, the US news rankings are not from a survey of residency or fellowship program directors. The US News rankings are meant as a guide for patients, they were not designed for us. The medical school rankings on the other hand were designed for people like us. Yes, the hospital rankings do have a reputation component, but that reputation component was from a survey of a wide variety of physicians, essentially asking them where they would refer a complicated patient to. It has nothing to do with program directors or residency/fellowship programs in general. Yes, generally speaking the most academic of places have well reputed hospital systems, so there is a correlation. But it is limited. Obviously the Mayo Clinic is not one of the three most prestigious im programs and is not one of the top 2-3 fellowship programs in every subspecialty, as those rankings would suggest if you interpreted them in that way.

All that being said, I would agree C-Sinai over the Harbor. But not because of Cedars ranking of 10th in digestive disorders, considering they don't have a GI fellowship, at least not one participating in the NRMP fellowship match.

 

[medstudent1279]

Hey everyone, I'm new to this forum and would really appreciate everyone's input on these 4 programs.

The main thing for me is getting into a GI fellowship program after residency training.

How should I rank these 4 programs?
Loma Linda
Scripps Green
UCLA-Olive View
USC

Pleaaasee help me out!!

 

[medstudent1279]

Hey everyone, I'm new to this forum and would really appreciate everyone's input on these 4 programs.

The main thing for me is getting into a GI fellowship program after residency training.

How should I rank these 4 programs?
Loma Linda
Scripps Green
UCLA-Olive View
USC

Pleaaasee help me out!!

bump..

 

[thegraduate56]

Hey everyone, I'm new to this forum and would really appreciate everyone's input on these 4 programs.

The main thing for me is getting into a GI fellowship program after residency training.

How should I rank these 4 programs?
Loma Linda
Scripps Green
UCLA-Olive View
USC

Pleaaasee help me out!!

Those programs all have very different patient populations, so I guess try to think about what you're looking for. Scripps Green is pretty upscale, OV's population is the "working poor", USC's patients are the urban underserved. Based on reputation alone, I think they're all pretty similar, I would put UCLA-OV and USC above the other two (I have a USC bias because I think it's a great place and they take a lot of their own for fellowship). Considering the number of in house fellowships at USC you might have an easier time there matching into GI. Scripps Green is a great place though, and if you're interested in working with a more insured patient population it might be the place to go. I don't know much about Loma Linda, but really it seems like you can't go wrong.

 

[tryptophan321]

BUMP - hoping to get some updated info.
What's the deal with USC's reputation these days? I can see it's gotten a lot of flak from SDNers in the past but its fellowship match list over the past several years doesn't look too shabby. Unless I'm missing something, looks like USC has had a better fellowship match than either UCI or Cedars.
Regarding UCI and Cedars - looks like the consensus is that Cedars is the stronger program? Trying to figure out which one to interview at, don't think I can swing them both. I'm looking for a place where I'll get solid clinical training and I'm planning on doing a pulm/CC fellowship. I like SoCal quite a bit, but don't know if I'd want to settle down there so I'm looking for a program with a better national reputation.
Thanks everyone!

 

[jdh71]

BUMP - hoping to get some updated info.
What's the deal with USC's reputation these days? I can see it's gotten a lot of flak from SDNers in the past but its fellowship match list over the past several years doesn't look too shabby. Unless I'm missing something, looks like USC has had a better fellowship match than either UCI or Cedars.
Regarding UCI and Cedars - looks like the consensus is that Cedars is the stronger program? Trying to figure out which one to interview at, don't think I can swing them both. I'm looking for a place where I'll get solid clinical training and I'm planning on doing a pulm/CC fellowship. I like SoCal quite a bit, but don't know if I'd want to settle down there so I'm looking for a program with a better national reputation.
Thanks everyone!

USC is solid

 

[Raryn]

BUMP - hoping to get some updated info.
What's the deal with USC's reputation these days? I can see it's gotten a lot of flak from SDNers in the past but its fellowship match list over the past several years doesn't look too shabby. Unless I'm missing something, looks like USC has had a better fellowship match than either UCI or Cedars.
Regarding UCI and Cedars - looks like the consensus is that Cedars is the stronger program? Trying to figure out which one to interview at, don't think I can swing them both. I'm looking for a place where I'll get solid clinical training and I'm planning on doing a pulm/CC fellowship. I like SoCal quite a bit, but don't know if I'd want to settle down there so I'm looking for a program with a better national reputation.
Thanks everyone!

USC got a new hospital ~6 years ago and a new IM program director not that long after that. Since then, their program has gone from having a substantial proportion of IMGs to being pretty much 100% US grads. From talking to people there during my interviews a couple years ago and then after, it's also become a lot more supportive with integrated ancillary staff and such. I'd say it's an excellent, solid program and I definitely ranked it high 3 years ago. Ended up elsewhere, but I'd have been perfectly happy to go there.

The historic malignant reputation is just that, history.

 

[tennismasta]

I am a current resident at USC who moved from the East Coast. Here are my thoughts thus far:

Pros:
-IM residency program is extremely supportive: Dr. Hsieh and the aPDs are amazing, they routinely ask for updates and are very quick to follow up on issues you may have on your rotations
-Fellowship Match: multiple cards, GI, heme/onc, PulmCC matches at impressive institutions
-diverse pathology at LA County: literally a gold mine for great cases since you treat the urban underserved; every single intern writes at least one case report by the end of the year
-brand new (or relatively new) hospital: very nice facility, a major, major improvement over the dump that was the old LA county hospital; I know the old LA county hospital is iconic (at one point something like 25% of all people in California were born in that hospital), but I'm glad I don't have to work there
-LA: this is a vacation destination, and during my vacations I actually stay and explore the area since I'm new here; also the weather is amazing, no more shoveling snow, scraping ice off my car, slipping on ice, being cold

Cons:
-LA County inefficiency: this is a huge, disorganized hospital, and things can take forever to get done, but things are improving; it's not like NY hospitals where I have to do my own blood draws
-SOME malignancy left: certain specialty services here are known for being difficult to deal with
-traffic: not an issue if you live close by; if you live in west LA, a 15 minutes commute without traffic can easily turn into an hour during rush hour

Overall I am very excited to be here. I am aware of the comparisons to other SoCal programs, and I do agree that the reputation is not as established as places like UCLA, Cedars-Sinai. However, people do very well here, and it's going to become more and more difficult to match here as the years go by. If you work hard, continually read, are proactive about research opportunities, and take advantage of the broad range of unique clinical cases, you will come out of this program ready to handle anything.

 

[MegMurry]

Oh, thank you so much for bumping this, @tryptophan321 . and thanks to those who have given more current insight into perceived strengths / weaknesses of these programs.

(I've seen this as well: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ornia-im-programs.387569/page-2#post-16378905 )

I have a pretty specific question. How would you rank Harbor, Olive View and USC right now for someone who is interested in pursuing an onc fellowship down the road, and would ideally like to keep the doors to both California / the rest of the US open?

 

[ShuperNewbie]

I have a pretty specific question. How would you rank Harbor, Olive View and USC right now for someone who is interested in pursuing an onc fellowship down the road, and would ideally like to keep the doors to both California / the rest of the US open?

I might be able to answer this to some extent. My dad actually hires oncologists for one of the large, very recognizable private (non academic) hospitals in SoCal. According to him the big player amongst heme onc community programs is actually Scripps Green. Now I know the question was in regards to IM programs and heme onc match. I just inteviewed at Cedars and it seems that the onc match coming out is pretty solid and the residents don't really hurt for onc opportunities (even though it's mostly liquid/bmt stuff there). The staff there is really really supportive in regards to making phone calls and getting their residents interviews at high powered places. Harbor is the same way; neither program typically has residents who have trouble matching into heme/onc if they want to. I can't really speak for USC because I havent interviewed there yet (will soon) but I know they have some really big names in heme/onc at the cancer center right now

Now, for what it's worth, the majority of these programs quoted have residents that typically stay at their home institutions (usually by choice) so if we want to talk down the road kind of stuff, it seems that amongst private hospitals, the community programs are looked at like this: Scripps Green > Harbor = USC. The Olive View/Cedars program is integrated and I don't really know where it would fall on the list but I'm sure you won't have trouble finding a job coming out.

 

[Crazyazy]

I have a pretty specific question. How would you rank Harbor, Olive View and USC right now for someone who is interested in pursuing an onc fellowship down the road, and would ideally like to keep the doors to both California / the rest of the US open?

I too am interested to know what people think about this.. Also - does anyone know if Olive View does a pre-interview dinner or any social outside of the interview? I can't seem to find out if so... Thanks in advanced!

 

[Crayola227]

I'm pretty sure Olive View does.

If you were offered an invite and it's been a few weeks since, and it's coming up, you can always shoot an email to the PC or whatever contact in the email. Otherwise I would just sit tight.

I think Olive View >> Harbor from a resident QOL standpoint. I think that's based on location in LA, cost of living, etc but could be wrong. I liked it for a county program (which will always be a place that kicks your ass.)

 

[Hoodat]

Olive View has among the most boring locations in Los Angeles, whereas Harbor is situated near some of the coolest (Manhattan and Hermosa Beaches, for example)
Both county-funded hospitals.

 

[repititionition]

Olive View has among the most boring locations in Los Angeles, whereas Harbor is situated near some of the coolest (Manhattan and Hermosa Beaches, for example)
Both county-funded hospitals.

Agreed.

 

[IlvFood]

I too am interested to know what people think about this.. Also - does anyone know if Olive View does a pre-interview dinner or any social outside of the interview? I can't seem to find out if so... Thanks in advanced!

I contacted Olive View and asked specifically about a pre-interview dinner. The PC said that they don't do it anymore because they found that many applicants felt obligated to attend even if it didn't work well with their schedules.