Sorry,..Had to ask

[OmedDOC]

I dont mean to open a can of worms with this question but I just had to ask. I read on another thread that DO attendings for MS 3 and 4's are not paid at all while MD's are paid regardless of who they are training. I'm very curious (just not fair. I think those being paid would be more inclined to teach/help),..is this true?? If its false info,..sorry in advance.

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[Idiopathic]

Why wouldnt they be paid?

And better yet, why would this be DO specific?

 

[OmedDOC]

Why wouldnt they be paid?

And better yet, why would this be DO specific?

Not sure , it just says that those are the policies of the D.O. medical education system (attendings are volunteers). Again, dont know how credible this info is so I could be wrong.

 

[eadysx]

I dont mean to open a can of worms with this question but I just had to ask. I read on another thread that DO attendings for MS 3 and 4's are not paid at all while MD's are paid regardless of who they are training. I'm very curious (just not fair. I think those being paid would be more inclined to teach/help),..is this true?? If its false info,..sorry in advance.

Not all MD's are paid to "teach" MS 3&4's. Same goes for DO's. For example its my understanding, in the state of Kentucky no attendings are paid to teach MS3&4's. Part of the Common Wealth idea....

E-

 

[Pikevillemedstudent]

eadysx,

My friend you are misinformed. What you speak is the fact that UK and Uof L got upset when we proposed to pay our preceptors a couple hundred bucks for each student that rotated with them. UK and U of L sends students for rural rotations to the same physicians on a volunteer basis and that's why they got upset. They did not want to have to also pay when they already got it for free. We backed down and decide not to pay either.

University hospitals have paid physicians on staff and in their contract they are required to teach medical students and residents. Most osteopathic rotations are at community hospitals with volunteer private physicians who chose to teach medical students.

 

[bustbones26]

I think what you are discussing is school dependant. I mean let's face it, because most DO schools do not have a university affiliation, they are privately owned, and are huge money makers.

AS I understand, and this is only from what I have heard (don't believe everything I hear). At my school, if you attempt to ask our clinical education department to set up an affiliation with an institution, if that particular institution says, "Sure, we'll preceptor your student for $1000 a pop", then our school says, "No way". That is just how our school works (as I have heard at least). Why? I don't know, I don't run the place. But we do have affiliations and yes quite a few are at smaller community hospitals and or private practices, but these people are willing to preceptor for "free". Again, why our school prefers to set us up with "free affiliates", most likely to generate more profit.

So yes, as DO students we do miss out on quite a few large university medical center insitutions as official affiliates of our school but hey, that is life. My school at least does list all of their affiliates on their website, so if you were interested in applying to my school, seeing what they have to offer on their web site, there is not reason to sign up and then complain later because you do know what you're getting into. Except in one case, there was one student in my class that claimed that our schools website listed Mayo as an affiliate and then got pi$$ed later because apparently they are not. Oh well, what can you do?

Bottom line is though, these preceptors at my school openly agree to do it for free, and not all of them are DO's either. Why would they do it for free? I think they get some kind of credit for preceptoring.

Now when it comes to training residents, be aware that faculty of ACGME programs are working in clinics operated by the insitution, it is not a private practice. So if for some reason an institution starts to lose money, sometimes the first thing hospital administrators do is say, "Hey, look at how much money we are losing by running the residency's continuity clinic, if we shut down the program, we save big". In cases like that, and unfortunately I have been effected by such an action, everybody loses, the attendings are out of work and the residents need to go find a new home.

 

[eadysx]

eadysx,

My friend you are misinformed.

Ahh, yes. I find this is often the case these days. I once thought I had a clue, medical school has taught me better...

E-

 

[MasterintuBater]

Yes, DO preceptors get no money, but do get like 1 hour of CME credit for preceptoring D.O. students. for a month. It's basically nothing. They could get that much credit doing a 5 question quiz in the back of the AOA monthly while sitting on the crapper. It's really just a pat on the back.
The M.D. preceptors, however, get nothing for teaching D.O. students. So be nice to your preceptors cause they're doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. If you have the mentality that you are "owed" a 3rd and 4th year learning experience better than what you are receiving, be mad at your school. Basically you are getting charged 150,000-200,000 almost all of which is front-loaded towards the first 2 years of medical school with minimal expenses being shelled out by the school for the clinical years. Like previously stated, D.O. schools are just big money-makers.

 

[hermione]

Just curious, our schools pay for the insurance we carry in case we kill someone, right? Or do the hospitals have a big blanket policy for all the students? I've been wondering how this works and who pays for it. I'm assuming its the school, and I'm really hoping its damn expensive, otherwise I can't figure out where all my tuition money is going for 3rd and 4th year....

 

[Doctor Peloncito]

Ok, here's the deal people...

Traditionally, doctors have had a spoken/unspoken understanding that students would be taught in the clinical portion of their education (yrs. 3-4) without direct compensation from their school to the hospital or preceptor. This is the way it has always been done. If any money comes from the school it is for "administrative fees". Now, in the recent climate of low compensation for medical care (due to the rise in power of HMOs and increasing use of Medicare) physicians are getting paid less for their services. Medicare does not recognize charting or treatments done by students. If the physician wants to be compensated for this work, it has to be done twice. Therefore you are seeing an increasing amount of hospitals and preceptors expecting compensation for the time spent with students.

Now on the differences between DO students and MD students I cannot be sure, but I do know that the University of Colorado charges DO students a $2000 ($1000 for Colorado residents) plus an application fee of $125 for electives done at their hospital, while MD students pay nothing (other than the application fee). Even foreign MD students are exempt from paying the $1000-2000 fee. This is something that you people need to investigate for yourselves and speak with the clinical education departments at your schools if you find it worrisome.

wbdo

 

[Doctor Peloncito]

Just curious, our schools pay for the insurance we carry in case we kill someone, right? Or do the hospitals have a big blanket policy for all the students? I've been wondering how this works and who pays for it. I'm assuming its the school, and I'm really hoping its damn expensive, otherwise I can't figure out where all my tuition money is going for 3rd and 4th year....

Yes, your school pays for malpractice insurance for you while you are on rotations. Your tuition, however, mostly subsidizes the first and second year students' education, and the day to day operations of your school (and hospital if you have one).

wbdo

 

[OSUdoc08]

I dont mean to open a can of worms with this question but I just had to ask. I read on another thread that DO attendings for MS 3 and 4's are not paid at all while MD's are paid regardless of who they are training. I'm very curious (just not fair. I think those being paid would be more inclined to teach/help),..is this true?? If its false info,..sorry in advance.

Attendings are there for the residents and the students. Their job requires their participation in providing education. Therefore, that is part of the salary. Whether or not they get additional money is on a case-by-case basis by hospital or school, and has nothing to do with DO or MD.

The fact that someone thinks it would be different between both types of physicians amazes me.

 

[docbill]

I would never pay for a school that charges DOs and NOT MDs.

I know U.Toronto charges all MDs not from the U.Toronto... but that is OKAY.

Colorodo.. will have to bite me... cause I am not interested.
BA

Ok, here's the deal people...

Traditionally, doctors have had a spoken/unspoken understanding that students would be taught in the clinical portion of their education (yrs. 3-4) without direct compensation from their school to the hospital or preceptor. This is the way it has always been done. If any money comes from the school it is for "administrative fees". Now, in the recent climate of low compensation for medical care (due to the rise in power of HMOs and increasing use of Medicare) physicians are getting paid less for their services. Medicare does not recognize charting or treatments done by students. If the physician wants to be compensated for this work, it has to be done twice. Therefore you are seeing an increasing amount of hospitals and preceptors expecting compensation for the time spent with students.

Now on the differences between DO students and MD students I cannot be sure, but I do know that the University of Colorado charges DO students a $2000 ($1000 for Colorado residents) plus an application fee of $125 for electives done at their hospital, while MD students pay nothing (other than the application fee). Even foreign MD students are exempt from paying the $1000-2000 fee. This is something that you people need to investigate for yourselves and speak with the clinical education departments at your schools if you find it worrisome.

wbdo