Sorta screwed. Advice please?

[tastyb33f]

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Hi all,

I'm currently a 3rd year at UC Berkeley and I intend to apply to med school AFTER I graduate, but I need some questions answered and hopefully some helpful advice.

My situation is kinda...ugh. I currently have a 3.28 overall GPA and a dismal 2.8 in BCPM. I have 4 C's, all in those damned science courses. (Ochem can die.) That GPA, however, is only from lower division classes, because at this point in my education here I have not yet finished any upper div courses (I'm an MCB major with emphasis in Immunology). I've been working hard and I fully intend to pull that GPA up, but at this point I really don't think I can get my final BCPM GPA up above a 3.2. I'm also a music minor, and I fully intend to keep my record of A average in my music classes...hopefully that'll help boost my overall GPA.

I'm also currently a licensed EMT-B and I will be working full-time this summer and I also intend to work after I graduate. I'll take the MCAT next year.

So I'm getting pretty worried that I won't get into anywhere, seeing as how everyone's general "benchmark" for any med school is a 3.5 overall. I'm gonna study my ass off for the MCAT and hopefully hit above average for it (I'm pretty good at standardized tests).

Question: Should I apply the summer right after I graduate, even though I intend to work as an EMT all the way until I maybe get into a med school? Or will working for a FULL year help my application, despite that option putting me back 2 years instead of 1?

Thanks!

 

[Thewrongstuff]

IMO:

1.Do some crazy ec's during this summer
2.Take ~2 A easy science classes in college (astronomy? I dunno). Shoot, 3 A's will give your science GPA a nice boost, maybe consider CC for 1?
3.Spend your time studying for the MCAT, you can always explain your gpa

You should be able to get into a D.O school without a problem. You go to a good, tough school so they KNOW what's up. IMO I'd try to get stuff done by september after you graduate and I would pass on the fulltime EMT-B unless your extra currics are really weak. Totally my opinion.

I am personally taking Community College science classes in tandem w/ my state school pre reqs just so I can get done by senior year! This also factors in 1 semester abroad and a summer in a 3rd world country helping kids. Hopefully...

 

[Mayday]

I'm not sure exactly what you should do - someone who knows better what it really takes will answer you I'm sure.

However, I just wanted to mention that you should keep in mind that anything you hear on SDN is probably a bit inflated compared to what it really takes. I'm convinced that the majority of people on SDN are closet gunners. At the very least, most of the people here seem to be on the upper end of the spectrum for pre-med scores (Either that or the rule of 3 apples here as much as it does with sex!)

 

[Bacchus]

You do have a chance at an osteopathic school, however I feel that it is going to be difficult either way. Do not get the mindset that either application process will be a walk in the park.

 

[tastyb33f]

Should I consider my chances at an MD-granting institution gone?

 

[Bacchus]

The subpar BCPM is going to do you in at a lot of schools. I think the best thing to consider would be a formal post-bacc at a reputable institution in order to raise your BCPM. Coupled with the post-bacc, a good MCAT score, and decent ECs you should have a fighting chance.

 

[Mayday]

Almost forgot to mention - you could also consider some post-bacc work to bring that GPA up before you apply - which would help tremendously. I wouldn't say your chances are gone - but they certainly will be a hell of a lot more difficult.

 

[Thewrongstuff]

If you look at stats its notoriously hard to get into M.D programs with a 3.3 gpa.

 

[MarySue99]

Should I consider my chances at an MD-granting institution gone?

Your chances aren't "gone" but if that's really what want, you should probably take extra classes after you graduate. (like work as an emt and take 1-2 science classes per semester to boost your bcpm) I think that if you can get it up to a 3.2-3.3 you would have a pretty good shot with great ECs and a really good MCAT. But if you don't want to put yourself through all that, you could always just apply to both DO and MD schools and see what happens.

 

[Chuckwalla]

Should I consider my chances at an MD-granting institution gone?

No, I wouldn't say that. Obviously boost your BCPM GPA. There are plenty of people who get in with 3.3's. Remember that the average is usually about a 3.5 to 3.6, that means there are a plenty above that and below that who get in.

There is still plenty of hope. Really bust it to maximize your chances.

 

[Bacchus]

If you look at stats its notoriously hard to get into M.D programs with a 3.3 gpa.

But not impossible. A student on here, flaahless I believe, had a little over a 3.3 and got into Vandy, full ride. Flaahless, I'm not discounting you, I am envious.

 

[Vihsadas]

If you look at stats its notoriously hard to get into M.D programs with a 3.3 gpa.

You're right...but its not impossible. Mark my words, I'm going to come back here in 1 or 2 years to be one of the exceptions. 😛

To the OP, if you want this bad enough you can make it happen. Don't let any of the naysayers stand in your way. Now, that being said, you are going to have to prepare yourself for some potentially uncomfortable and time-consuming alternative paths.
Regardless of what you've done in your past...the only thing that YOU have control over is what you are doing RIGHT NOW. So from this point on, get your act together, and get it done. That means: Get straight As. This is not an option for your last year. You must get a stellar GPA your last year. That's the first thing.

The second thing is be prepared to study your mo-fuggin ass off for the MCAT. For one summer of your life you will have absolutely no fun. No going out, no drinking, no partying. You will study for the MCATs for 4 months at 40+ hours a week, and you will be determined to kick the MCAT straight in the crotch.

Third, you must be willing and prepared to either go to an SMP program, or do a serious postbacc in undergraduate courses. I am still planning on going to an SMP program next year if I don't get in this year. In my mind, I want this dream bad enough that an extra 50K is not going to stand in my way. Hell, after MD School, I'll be 200K in anyway, what's another 50K. You gotta want it that bad too.

Fourth, if all else fails you have to have the confidence that you can go to an overseas medical school and beat the crap out of the USMLEs while you are studying there.

This can happen. You just have to make it happen. If you're really not willing to put down the amount of effort required to make this happen, then you gotta really take a moment and think about how badly you want this. If you decide that you do want it that badly, just make sure you realize that you have to give it 100% all the time, every day, every night. No matter what. You don't have room to be anything except exceptional from here on out! If you got the drive, you can do it, but you also have to have the determination and the work ethic.

 

[Mbekweni]

Boost your gpa as much as you can while at Cal. After that I'd recommend taking 2 years off to do some wonderful things. Travel the world, join Peace Corps, start an NGO in Africa 😉. People with lower GPAs can get in to top schools, just like people with top scores don't get anywhere on occasion. At almost all of my interviews I've seen the majority of people are a few years out of school with some really interesting stories to tell. If you can express yourself well in an application and interviews, and have a good direction in your life and confidence in yourself, I think you'd be fine. Don't loose hope because of the numbers you see here on SDN.

I have reasonable numbers (but not great) and my experience has been that some schools have passed me by quickly, while many schools have surprised me with interviews (and hopefully acceptances within the next few days/weeks). Taking 2 years off after school to do an MPH, travel the world, start my own business, do some interesting research etc has made me a much better applicant and further committed me to medicine. There is simply no way I would be as competitive an applicant had I applied right after I graduated.

So I'd definitely say that you should take a few years off, have the time of your life, get some great extra experience beyond just the EMT stuff, and I'm sure you'll be able to get an MD acceptance. Sure, you could do a post bacc, but my intuition says that since you already have no chance at competing directly with the tough applicant pool on numbers alone, so don't waste precious years of your life in that loosing battle. Instead, why not have more fun, do amazing work, and be a much more interesting candidate based on experience and maturity when you apply? You'll set yourself apart that way and once you get an interview it will be your time to shine. Good luck!

Hi all,

I'm currently a 3rd year at UC Berkeley and I intend to apply to med school AFTER I graduate, but I need some questions answered and hopefully some helpful advice.

My situation is kinda...ugh. I currently have a 3.28 overall GPA and a dismal 2.8 in BCPM. I have 4 C's, all in those damned science courses. (Ochem can die.) That GPA, however, is only from lower division classes, because at this point in my education here I have not yet finished any upper div courses (I'm an MCB major with emphasis in Immunology). I've been working hard and I fully intend to pull that GPA up, but at this point I really don't think I can get my final BCPM GPA up above a 3.2. I'm also a music minor, and I fully intend to keep my record of A average in my music classes...hopefully that'll help boost my overall GPA.

I'm also currently a licensed EMT-B and I will be working full-time this summer and I also intend to work after I graduate. I'll take the MCAT next year.

So I'm getting pretty worried that I won't get into anywhere, seeing as how everyone's general "benchmark" for any med school is a 3.5 overall. I'm gonna study my ass off for the MCAT and hopefully hit above average for it (I'm pretty good at standardized tests).

Question: Should I apply the summer right after I graduate, even though I intend to work as an EMT all the way until I maybe get into a med school? Or will working for a FULL year help my application, despite that option putting me back 2 years instead of 1?

Thanks!

 

[Jolie South]

Make sure you do well consistently until you graduate. If you can't do well in sciences with a full courseload, that's going to make it look like you won't be able to handle the rigors of medical school. Someone mentioned earlier to take 1-2 science classes while working. While this will boost your BCPM, it will not go towards showing that you can handle difficult material under pressure. You can do this to boost your BCPM, but only do it after you have succeeded in getting a great GPA in your remaining years at school. If you don't do well, consider the post-bacc option.

As another poster said, do interesting ECs. You're a music minor, so I'm sure there are interesting ensembles that you could get involved with. Maybe, there are some that do that holiday caroling/singing for old folks homes, etc. That might be a good thing.

I will say that while I have ok stats, my ECs made all the difference. I went the Peace Corps route and played in marching band in college. Seriously, I never expected the response that I've received from schools (have yet to receive a rejection, interviews from all but 3 schools). If you can make yourself stand out, that will be huge. I have some clinical exposure, but not a lot, so all this is due to the unique interests that I had.

 

[Bond8204]

You are a textbook case for a Post-bacc or masters program. Kicking ass in one of those programs shows that your low gpa is not indicative of success level at an allopathic school. If you're dead set on an MD and can afford a program like this, I highly recommend doing this.

 

[tastyb33f]

How much does non-health related EC's help? I've been in marching band since my first year here and I intend to do all four years of it (next year will be my last year), and I've had several structure positions in band, including being a TA.

Also, how much does it hurt that I don't have any research experience? With my GPA, I couldn't find any profs that wanted to take me (and believe me, I tried). Looking through an old copy of the MSAR (2006-07 I believe), it seems for most med schools about 90% of the applicants say they have research experience on their apps. But my cousin, a doctor at UCLA, says that most of the research experience that these people list doesn't result in any publication anyways, so it doesn't make them stand out compared to their fellow applicants. Is there any truth to that?

 

[premedrod]

if i were in your position, i would apply to both DO and MD programs if you're cool with that. since you havent taken the mcats, definitely aim over 32. i go to UC davis and so im not doing to well either...
from what ive seen, ppl from berkeley get well over 30 so maybe you'll do the same. good luck with everything and i agree with that person who said "take easy classes from now on"
doing that emt might look good but isnt there some other stuff you can do with it?

 

[LizzyM]

Four Cs, including o-chem is going to hurt you. BCPM < 3.0 is a huge red flag as well.

Having As in music classes will not offset poor grades in natural and social science courses. If anything, adcoms may see that as having inflated the gpa you'd otherwise have.

In my opinion, an MPH or similar degree can't make up for poor grades in the basic sciences. MPH courses don't count toward your BCPM so they can't help you there. A SMP is a possibility but if you don't do exceedingly well, it is money down the drain. A post-bac doesn't make sense, to me, unless you had been a non-science major who decided to change careers (e.g. professional musician who decides to pursue a career in medicine)

You might be best off retaking the courses in which you have Cs and setting up some shadowing with a DO. If you get As in those repeated courses, and if you are attracted to DO education, then that might be your best bet because DO schools will drop your first attempt at a course and count only the second attempt in calculating your gpa. AMCAS counts both grades so that a C and an A will average to 3.0 meaning you'd need 4 As to balance 4 Cs and that would bring your BCPM for those 8 courses to 3.0. It is a hideous uphill climb for a science major with 4 Cs to improve the AMCAS gpa.

I know of DOs who are respected members of allopathic medical school faculty. Either path will lead to licensing as a "Physician and Surgeon" (the old school name on the license) and DO might be the bet in your situation.

 

[rds726]

Apply to schools that give you preference! such as state schools...
my BCPM looks OK because of maths and upper levels that brought it up towards the end of college, but my pre-med science classes were not good at all (C's, B-'s, etc).

My overall gpa is normal i guess.

My MCAT is just about par.

I got several interviews from schools giving me preference (state, undergrad, etc) and have an acceptance at a state.

So just work your butt off and get some unique EC's! 🙂
It can happen!

 

[novastorm]

Do the math to find out what your max BCPM can be before you graduate. See if its feasible to raise it or if you need to do post bac. To be honest BCPM is probably the most important thing on your application, they make you take those classes because they feel they are a direct measure of your ability to do medical school science. Organic chemistry in particular is supposedly a measure of how well you do biochem. Don't forget to be realistic, its not a matter of not getting into medical school its a matter of WHEN you get in.

Hi all,

I'm currently a 3rd year at UC Berkeley and I intend to apply to med school AFTER I graduate, but I need some questions answered and hopefully some helpful advice.

My situation is kinda...ugh. I currently have a 3.28 overall GPA and a dismal 2.8 in BCPM. I have 4 C's, all in those damned science courses. (Ochem can die.) That GPA, however, is only from lower division classes, because at this point in my education here I have not yet finished any upper div courses (I'm an MCB major with emphasis in Immunology). I've been working hard and I fully intend to pull that GPA up, but at this point I really don't think I can get my final BCPM GPA up above a 3.2. I'm also a music minor, and I fully intend to keep my record of A average in my music classes...hopefully that'll help boost my overall GPA.

I'm also currently a licensed EMT-B and I will be working full-time this summer and I also intend to work after I graduate. I'll take the MCAT next year.

So I'm getting pretty worried that I won't get into anywhere, seeing as how everyone's general "benchmark" for any med school is a 3.5 overall. I'm gonna study my ass off for the MCAT and hopefully hit above average for it (I'm pretty good at standardized tests).

Question: Should I apply the summer right after I graduate, even though I intend to work as an EMT all the way until I maybe get into a med school? Or will working for a FULL year help my application, despite that option putting me back 2 years instead of 1?

Thanks!

 

[LizzyM]

Don't forget to be realistic, its not a matter of not getting into medical school its a matter of WHEN you get in.

This would suggest that everyone who wants to get into med school will do so, eventually. This is clearly not the case with half of all applicants being turned down in any given cycle and the vast majority of matriculants being admitted on the first try-- there is a pool of applicants who never gain admission regardless of the number of years spent in preparation or the number of application attempts.

The problem solving skills, ability to use logic and pattern recognition, and capacity for memorization necessary to succeed in o-chem are essential for success in medical school. If the OP was unhappy in o-chem, medical school is going to be hell. Maybe the OP should consider what is most attractive about the practice of medicine from his/her perspective and look into alternate careers with those attributes.

 

[novastorm]

This would suggest that everyone who wants to get into med school will do so, eventually. This is clearly not the case with half of all applicants being turned down in any given cycle and the vast majority of matriculants being admitted on the first try-- there is a pool of applicants who never gain admission regardless of the number of years spent in preparation or the number of application attempts.

The problem solving skills, ability to use logic and pattern recognition, and capacity for memorization necessary to succeed in o-chem are essential for success in medical school. If the OP was unhappy in o-chem, medical school is going to be hell. Maybe the OP should consider what is most attractive about the practice of medicine from his/her perspective and look into alternate careers with those attributes.

This is almost word for word the view of the AAMC. This is a well founded statement based on fact and trends in the overall applicant pool. However this should be taken with a grain of salt. If you in fact graduate with a 2.8 BCPM you will have a almost non-existent chance of getting into medical school. If you want to have any shot your going to have to go through more school if in the form of a formal pre med post bac, a masters in some sort of science or science related. You will have to show some sort of improvement in your weaknesses. This is not a quick process, medical school has just become a long term goal for you. Your not totally lost yet and it is far too soon to give up. Really think about what your doing and see how your doing closer to graduation you'll really know if you have a chance in time or not.

 

[chup12682]

Should I consider my chances at an MD-granting institution gone?

I know what you might be thinking as people are telling you to go for your secondary option of DO school. But remember that ADCOMs really will consider past college GPA's less and less as time goes by. You just need to make sure that you've done something to improve your status as a competitive applicant since you've graduated from your undergrad institution. Being an EMT should certainly help as it covers a type of patient care experience that could be useful in an interview. Also being able to talk about medicine as an academic field is CRUCIAL! It's what drives so many people into medicine and not teaching upper level science classes. So to do that, research is a great option to get yourself into, especially if it's under an MD/PHD. On a side note, if that MD/PHD is tied to a school, you could always score a great recommendation from that principle investigator and drop a name in an essay or interview!

Lastly, your GPA cannot be ignored, but it can also be fixed! Consider post bacc programs to raise that GPA. And I mean literally raise it since AMCAS will AVERAGE your grades from undergrad. If you decide to take Masters courses, that will of course come in as a separate grade. So don't loose hope... Focus on what you LOVE to study now and climb that ladder. I know it might sound trite, but for those who truly want to be a doctor will continue to work to become compteitive. And if you should falter along the way, you'll find yourself a competitive applicant for MANY other things that you could enjoy. But for stick to your passion.

 

[Phoenix.]

I think you got some great advice already in this thread. Another option I'm giong to throw into the mix, would be to move to another state with much more friendly in-state schools (CA is notoriously difficult), work for a year (EMT) while possibly taking some more classes to raise your gpa and show an upward trend in science classes, and establish residency elsewhere. I'm not saying you're doomed in CA, but I'm saying it would be easier as a resident of another state.... And yes, people with 3.2 gpas do get into MD schools. But you really do need an upward trend, great ECs, great LORs and a great personal statement. Oh, and apply early. Good luck!

 

[batman1983]

Hi all,

I'm currently a 3rd year at UC Berkeley and I intend to apply to med school AFTER I graduate, but I need some questions answered and hopefully some helpful advice.

My situation is kinda...ugh. I currently have a 3.28 overall GPA and a dismal 2.8 in BCPM. I have 4 C's, all in those damned science courses. (Ochem can die.) That GPA, however, is only from lower division classes, because at this point in my education here I have not yet finished any upper div courses (I'm an MCB major with emphasis in Immunology). I've been working hard and I fully intend to pull that GPA up, but at this point I really don't think I can get my final BCPM GPA up above a 3.2. I'm also a music minor, and I fully intend to keep my record of A average in my music classes...hopefully that'll help boost my overall GPA.

I'm also currently a licensed EMT-B and I will be working full-time this summer and I also intend to work after I graduate. I'll take the MCAT next year.

So I'm getting pretty worried that I won't get into anywhere, seeing as how everyone's general "benchmark" for any med school is a 3.5 overall. I'm gonna study my ass off for the MCAT and hopefully hit above average for it (I'm pretty good at standardized tests).

Question: Should I apply the summer right after I graduate, even though I intend to work as an EMT all the way until I maybe get into a med school? Or will working for a FULL year help my application, despite that option putting me back 2 years instead of 1?

Thanks!

Kiss ass and get research. I know lots of underqualified/lower qualified Cal ppl that got into top tier programs with 3.5,30 MCATs just because of research. So, I figure, if you do that and at least get a 31+ MCAT, you have a chance for a MD school.

 

[berkeleyvala]

Dude, I know exactly what you're going through. I'm a Cal graduate (and an MCB major) and I know exactly what those MCB classes can do to you. I had a similar GPA and managed to pull it up .25 by the end of my senior year. Not stellar, but barely in the ballpark.

Advice? Forget MCB classes. Stack up on IB and Psych courses.

Here are some classes:

IB 131- Anatomy. BUT only with Diamond. Easiest A at Cal.
IB 140- Human Repro- also chill regardless of professor
Psych 110- Biology of Psychological systems- also chill
then there's a psych class on hormones thats cross-listed as a biology course...don't remember what its called.

trust me, the psych classes at Cal are like a vacation after those killer MCB classes.

Oh, and maybe take stats? thats an easy course..some people think stats is hard though so i dunno...

but with those 4-5 classes, your BCPM grade should improve. And seriously, maybe consider CDB instead of Immuno. It allows more flexibility to take some easier classes, and you have the flexibility to take the immuno course if you're interested. I know people are gonna say don't change, do what you're interested in...but honestly, its only a change of 1-2 courses.

Anyways, best of luck to you. Stack up on some social science courses (might I recommend political science- any course with Professor Darren Zook, not only is he amazingly smart, his classes are pretty chill).

Concentrate on school, get a good MCAT, and you'll be fine. True I haven't gotten acceptances yet, but I have had several positive interviews. So, its possible. Best of luck!

 

[littlealex]

Should I consider my chances at an MD-granting institution gone?

It's not gone, but it'd would take at least some crazy ECs AND some extra classes to bring you into the running. If you're gunning for MD, I would recommend a postbac or an SMP program before you apply. It'll help improve your chances.

 

[d7486]

My stats aren't much better than yours, but I recognized that my stats weren't spectacular early on. I garnered some unique EC's, studied my ass off and rocked the MCAT, and proved my intellectual capability in upper-level sciences (I go to a tough university with a huge pre-med program, and the basic science courses are designed to make the average student get C's). At all my interviews at allopathic schools, they've asked me why my GPA doesn't match my MCAT score, and I've asked them to notice the better grades in the upper level sciences, and they all agreed that I must be able to handle the coursework of med school if I can succeed in upper-level sciences. SO... 1. Rock the MCAT. 2. Get some unique clinical experience and other EC's. 3. Do well on your upper level sciences. 4. Make yourself stand out in any way possible. 5. Apply early. 6. Develop your interviewing skills. 7. Apply to schools that aren't as concerned about numbers as they are about how great a doctor you'll be. I'd say your hope for an M.D. isn't gone! Good luck!