Step 2 CS cancelled (for now)

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Do the right thing, Gimpel.
 
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God, I hope they specifically left the NBOME out of this decision so Gimpel could finally put his foot in his mouth after the crap they pulled last week.
 
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This is wonderful news in the short term, but don't forget to keep your eyes on the prize. The NBME isn't just going to walk away from $40 million. If you don't have to take it this year, expect them to put some nonsense hurdle in front of you next year. We have to continue advocating for the end of both CS and PE, and settle for nothing less.
 
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I guess they could always try to push this back to residency like Step 3. But...I mean, if you wake up on the wrong side of the bed and happen to fail it, will anyone care? You’re already in residency. You can just tighten your bootstraps and try again.
 
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bananafish94 said:
This is wonderful news in the short term, but don't forget to keep your eyes on the prize. The NBME isn't just going to walk away from $40 million. If you don't have to take it this year, expect them to put some nonsense hurdle in front of you next year. We have to continue advocating for the end of both CS and PE, and settle for nothing less.
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Exactly.

And until state licensing boards stop requiring it... it will continue.
 
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alkaidius said:
I guess they could always try to push this back to residency like Step 3. But...I mean, if you wake up on the wrong side of the bed and happen to fail it, will anyone care? You’re already in residency. You can just tighten your bootstraps and try again.
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It's still a waste of time and money to take that dumb test
 
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Lawper said:
It's still a waste of time and money to take that dumb test
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It also seems absurd. Are they really going to fail interns who have been successfully providing care in the US for 6 months?
 
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How will they make us report this in ERAS? Will it even be reported at all? Optional? That's what I'm waiting to hear about.
 
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ciestar said:
Exactly.

And until state licensing boards stop requiring it... it will continue.
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Most actually don’t, at least not explicitly. The NBME got around that by making CS a prerequisite to taking Step 3. While the state boards will be useful allies in a renewed fight to end this unsubstantiated, unevidenced, medical leech, only the organization that created CS can kill it.
 
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BlackSquirrelMed said:
Most actually don’t, at least not explicitly. The NBME got around that by making CS a prerequisite to taking Step 3. While the state boards will be useful allies in a renewed fight to end this unsubstantiated, unevidenced, medical leech, only the organization that created CS can kill it.
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I don't know why this isn't common knowledge but this is correct!
 
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Neopolymath said:
I don't know why this isn't common knowledge but this is correct!
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This confirms my previous statement AaMC and Lcme are useless...or maybe they are all partying together w NBME on their own private yatch
 
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BlackSquirrelMed said:
Most actually don’t, at least not explicitly. The NBME got around that by making CS a prerequisite to taking Step 3. While the state boards will be useful allies in a renewed fight to end this unsubstantiated, unevidenced, medical leech, only the organization that created CS can kill it.
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I can obviously only speak to my own experience as my licensing board wants my CS transcript on top of all the others.
 
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popopopop said:
How will they make us report this in ERAS? Will it even be reported at all? Optional? That's what I'm waiting to hear about.
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It should be completely eliminated for everyone on ERAS this year. If I was someone who took it before the cancellations and failed, I'd be pounding on their door to eliminate it entirely for this class.
 
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throwaway199 said:
Looks like IMGs are ****edddd. ECFMG is making it sound like they not gonna issue certs for IMGs to participate in match this year... or atleast not until they take CS alternative...

Here ECFMG|FAIMER Responds to Suspension of USMLE Step 2 CS Testing, Commits to Uninterrupted Pathway for IMGs to ECFMG Certification - ECFMG News
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Idt they are saying that they won’t be able to participate on Match lol...imagine how many spots will go unfilled if that can’t.
 
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Really wondering how the NBOME is going to follow this...in order to eliminate the PE it would require them to go back on everything they've said about it being, "the most important exam a future physician can take." If we know anything about the NBOME, it's that they're stubborn...Time will only tell...
 
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frenchyn said:
Idt they are saying that they won’t be able to participate on Match lol...imagine how many spots will go unfilled if that can’t.
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I don't know sounds sketchy

ECFMG|FAIMER is committed to the continued smooth operation of its certification program and the ability of qualified IMGs to pursue and participate in U.S. GME without interruption.

"Identifying alternatives to Step 2 CS that can be available now to allow IMGs to meet the clinical skills requirement for ECFMG Certification and providing an update on these alternatives in the very immediate future;"
 
Lawper said:
Also NBOME should get rid of that dumb PE exam for good.
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dude they got the whole face mask situation down. I don't think there will be any change for PE........
 
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Watch them jack up the price of the remaining steps by 300% to make up for it lol
 
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jkdoctor said:
Option 1: They fail interns at the same rate as medical students. This does not pass the smell test since interns will have much more clinical experience.
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This premise is flawed because it assumes CS is correlated with your clinical acumen or experience. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if interns failed it more than medical students because they have more experience and have been practicing real medicine as opposed to the scripted charade that's CS.
 
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mandu_cheeks said:
I wonder what will happen to the US MD students who are on F1 visas and need to be ECFMG certified. There are literally dozens of us!
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How is that possible? Isn't being a citizen required to apply to medical school in this country?
 
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Small Cell Carcinoma said:
How is that possible? Isn't being a citizen required to apply to medical school in this country?
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Being a US citizen or greencard holder is "required" to apply to US MD schools in the same way that having a bachelor's degree is required. Most places will state that they require it. The remaining few places won't state it outright, but will still reject almost everyone who doesn't meet this criteria.

On rare occasions though, someone may manage to get accepted without it.
 
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Small Cell Carcinoma said:
How is that possible? Isn't being a citizen required to apply to medical school in this country?
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No, it isn't. There are students from many different countries studying here, including as close as Canada.
 
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bananafish94 said:
This premise is flawed because it assumes CS is correlated with your clinical acumen or experience. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if interns failed it more than medical students because they have more experience and have been practicing real medicine as opposed to the scripted charade that's CS.
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Hah this is actually a great point. Practicing real medicine probably would earn a fail per the PE's standards...
 
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Who else here feels like a “hit and run” from NBME? They just dropped the big bombs without any other clarifications. The FAQ is not helpful btw. “Encourage programs” is bull****, PD will just do whatever they see fit.
 
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frenchyn said:
Who else here feels like a “hit and run” from NBME? They just dropped the big bombs without any other clarifications. The FAQ is not helpful btw. “Encourage programs” is bull****, PD will just do whatever they see fit.
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I think the answer is to just have the AAMC remove the option of CS/PE reporting from ERAS altogether. It's the only way to mitigate PD's making dumb decisions based on who does/does not have a test score.
 
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AnatomyGrey12 said:
I think the answer is to just have the AAMC remove the option of CS/PE reporting from ERAS altogether. It's the only way to mitigate PD's making dumb decisions based on who does/does not have a test score.
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I agree. That will be the best. I wonder when they will announce that? October 21? ‍♀️This wait and watch approach is annoying the f out of me. We all knew they would not be able to pull this telemedicine Out of no where...but they made us waited for 3 months for this 12-18 months cancelation ‍♀️
 
Surprised no one's mentioned turning this into a research project and following the Class 2021 through intern year and evals and determine whether or not CS actually makes any difference in function/performance as an intern and residents.
 
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Mass Effect said:
Surprised no one's mentioned turning this into a research project and following the Class 2021 through intern year and evals and determine whether or not CS actually makes any difference in function/performance as an intern and residents.
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There are too many confounding variables like not having the same number of clinical rotations that would impact such a study since this was not done in a vaccum. Plus you are ignoring the biggest variable. That name does not give a **** if the exam actually accomplishes something and will not stop administering it no matter what research shows.
 
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libertyyne said:
There are too many confounding variables like not having the same number of clinical rotations that would impact such a study since this was not done in a vaccum. Plus you are ignoring the biggest variable. That name does not give a **** if the exam actually accomplishes something and will not stop administering it no matter what research shows.
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Agree about the variables. In a field like medicine, it would be nice to have actual evidence to reference the next time med students complain about this test being unnecessary/pointless.
 
Here is the FAQs that answers most of the questions you guys had. United States Medical Licensing Examination | Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)

"Graduates of LCME- and AOA-accredited medical schools individuals who have passed Step 1 and Step 2 CK, as well as international medical graduates with ECFMG certification, will be able to take Step 3 without first passing Step 2 CS. Further details will be forthcoming."
 
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I don’t have a Step 2 CS score, but I will be competing in the 2021 National Residency Matching Program (NRMP) with peers who do. Will this affect my chances to match in my desired specialty?

"We understand why some residency applicants may be concerned about not having a Step 2 CS result while some of their peers have completed the exam. We will work across undergraduate and graduate medical education as much as possible to encourage schools and programs not to disadvantage applicants who do not have a Step 2 CS result."

^^ how exactly can they enforce this?
 
qwertythrowaway said:
I don’t have a Step 2 CS score, but I will be competing in the 2021 National Residency Matching Program (NRMP) with peers who do. Will this affect my chances to match in my desired specialty?

"We understand why some residency applicants may be concerned about not having a Step 2 CS result while some of their peers have completed the exam. We will work across undergraduate and graduate medical education as much as possible to encourage schools and programs not to disadvantage applicants who do not have a Step 2 CS result."

^^ how exactly can they enforce this?
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They cant
 
Would a PD really care that one applicant had a Pass and another didnt? With 96% passing it seems like a total non-advantage.


But, their move here might portend their move with the P/F and scored dilemma. If they dont report CS status at all to keep the playing field level, I bet they retro convert everyone to P/F for Step 1 too when the time comes.
 
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efle said:
Would a PD really care that one applicant had a Pass and another didnt? With 96% passing it seems like a total non-advantage.


But, their move here might portend their move with the P/F and scored dilemma. If they dont report CS status at all to keep the playing field level, I bet they retro convert everyone to P/F for Step 1 too when the time comes.
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how would a 250+ Step 1 guy respond to a retro converted pass? will there be lawsuits?
 
qwertythrowaway said:
I don’t have a Step 2 CS score, but I will be competing in the 2021 National Residency Matching Program (NRMP) with peers who do. Will this affect my chances to match in my desired specialty?

"We understand why some residency applicants may be concerned about not having a Step 2 CS result while some of their peers have completed the exam. We will work across undergraduate and graduate medical education as much as possible to encourage schools and programs not to disadvantage applicants who do not have a Step 2 CS result."

^^ how exactly can they enforce this?
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In what world is a program not going to rank someone because they haven't taken CS when it's no longer required?
 
The real question is how will PD's view DO's that don't have a PE score.... seeing as the NBOME is not following suit and will still be giving Level 2 PE....
 
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qwertythrowaway said:
I don’t have a Step 2 CS score, but I will be competing in the 2021 National Residency Matching Program (NRMP) with peers who do. Will this affect my chances to match in my desired specialty?

"We understand why some residency applicants may be concerned about not having a Step 2 CS result while some of their peers have completed the exam. We will work across undergraduate and graduate medical education as much as possible to encourage schools and programs not to disadvantage applicants who do not have a Step 2 CS result."

^^ how exactly can they enforce this?
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Like mentioned before they can just remove the option to report it on your app this application cycle, and problem solved.
 
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